Dan Scolaro bad guy.

[Mooing Tricycle]

I called the Lab that did the Necropsy report, and will be speaking with the Dr. Who did the Necropsy tomorrow. ( Hopefully)

Im going to be asking him What inclusion bodies would be associated with the presence of IBD * or what confirms its there*, and what other things one would want to pay attention to in one of these reports.

Hopefully we will get a better answer tomorrow about what exactly this report is telling us. I am NOT asking him for personal information on the subject that was necropsied, but the general gist of what would confirm IBD in a possibly infected animal.

I want to put out there that i would appreciate that noone else call, I do not want these people hounded for this information, and then shut us off completely. I appreciate everyones understanding!! Hopefully well have some better information on this subject tomorrow morning.

 

[jscrick]

OK. First I can respond to this question. Having read the report and having talked to several knowledgeable boa people who's opinions I trust, I agree that the report I got from Texas A&M is not conclusive for the IBD virus in the suspect snake.
My only point for sharing this with Chuck was to provide my opinion that Dan does sometimes fail to tell the truth and to accept responsibility for the facts and I provided credible evidence to back up my opinion. Dan said the same things to me he said to the Kid. I told Dan not to insult my intelligence with such stuff.
The reason I personally did not want to bring all this up on the BOI, as I stated to Chuck, was I didn't want my name and reputation smeared, as Chuck has already done by claiming my motive had something to do with me not wanting anyone to know I'm scared to death I might have IBD in my collection. I do not have IBD in my collection. That snake never got anywhere close to my animals.
I owe Dan an apology for this misjudgement on my part. I assumed Chuck was a man of integrity as he constantly rails at others to be. As Dan stated and I agree, if you want rare and unusual hand picked imports or venomous, he is the man to see. He is not for the novice. Not for the beginner. Yes, he is difficult. He has a huge ego. He and I aren't on as good of terms as we used to be. We have agreed not to do business with one another in the future. But please, don't you try to insist he be all things to all people.
You see, I expect I will now be attacked by those in this circular firing squad because I have a slightly different opinion and don't blindly follow the pack in their name calling attack. I know my reputation is somewhat diminished through association with this thread on the Bureau of Intimidation and that broad brush they use. That is what I didn't want. I should have known better.
jsc

 

[spawn]

Brevity is the soul of wit

Truer words never spoken...Shakespeare.

Jim, I think Michael was looking for a more specific issue. As in, would you cease all sales? Put an animal down for testing? Some kind of answer/standard to hold Dan to.

 

[Lucille]

My only point for sharing this with Chuck was to provide my opinion that Dan does sometimes fail to tell the truth and to accept responsibility for the facts

So, according to you, Dan is a liar on occasion. And, you have not provided proof here of the IBD mess,you have only volunteered your opinion. I don't think this is a resolution.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

OK. First I can respond to this question. Having read the report and having talked to several knowledgeable boa people who's opinions I trust, I agree that the report I got from Texas A&M is not conclusive for the IBD virus in the suspect snake.
My only point for sharing this with Chuck was to provide my opinion that Dan does sometimes fail to tell the truth and to accept responsibility for the facts and I provided credible evidence to back up my opinion. Dan said the same things to me he said to the Kid. I told Dan not to insult my intelligence with such stuff.
The reason I personally did not want to bring all this up on the BOI, as I stated to Chuck, was I didn't want my name and reputation smeared, as Chuck has already done by claiming my motive had something to do with me not wanting anyone to know I'm scared to death I might have IBD in my collection. I do not have IBD in my collection. That snake never got anywhere close to my animals.
I owe Dan an apology for this misjudgement on my part. I assumed Chuck was a man of integrity as he constantly rails at others to be. As Dan stated and I agree, if you want rare and unusual hand picked imports or venomous, he is the man to see. He is not for the novice. Not for the beginner. Yes, he is difficult. He has a huge ego. He and I aren't on as good of terms as we used to be. We have agreed not to do business with one another in the future. But please, don't you try to insist he be all things to all people.
You see, I expect I will now be attacked by those in this circular firing squad because I have a slightly different opinion and don't blindly follow the pack in their name calling attack. I know my reputation is somewhat diminished through association with this thread on the Bureau of Intimidation and that broad brush they use. That is what I didn't want. I should have known better.
jsc

I dont see why people automatically assume that they are going to be immediately attacked.

If you have proper quarantine procedures, and if what you say is true, that this animal never came in contact with your collection,thats fine. ( you will probably be asked to explain your procedures though... and told to take extreme caution with your remaining animals)

Im glad you posted, and your side of the story would be far better off than JUST hearing Dans Babble.


What did the vet tell you, after the necropsy was done? This disease is just serious, and people want to just know the truth. and see people do the right thing. Please understand on what side of the fence we all are coming from on this subject, thats all i ask.

 

[jscrick]

Why are you calling the lab regarding my test results? Just like I told Chuck -- I didn't want him fighting my battles for me, I don't want you fighting my battles for me either.
What gives you the right to ask others not to butt into something that is none of their business when that is exactly what you are doing?
I'm going to call the lab myself an tell the vet not to discuss my case with you, period.
Didn't you mention earlier you didn't bring your laptop to work so you couldn't read and reply? I'm assuming you are at work now and NOT doing company business. I would very much like to talk to your employer if that is the case to inform them you are doing things unrelated to company business on their time.
Where do you people get all this self righteous indignation?
You people are truly sick!
Does anyone really wonder why I didn't want this posted?
jsc

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

If you have proper quarantine procedures, and if what you say is true, that this animal never came in contact with your collection,thats fine.

Let me add. And the other animals that were also in contact with the now deceased one.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Why are you calling the lab regarding my test results? Just like I told Chuck -- I didn't want him fighting my battles for me, I don't want you fighting my battles for me either.
What gives you the right to ask others not to butt into something that is none of their business when that is exactly what you are doing?
I'm going to call the lab myself an tell the vet not to discuss my case with you, period.
Didn't you mention earlier you didn't bring your laptop to work so you couldn't read and reply? I'm assuming you are at work now and NOT doing company business. I would very much like to talk to your employer if that is the case to inform them you are doing things unrelated to company business on their time.
Where do you people get all this self righteous indignation?
You people are truly sick!
Does anyone really wonder why I didn't want this posted?
jsc

I will not be discussing your case with him at all. I even stated that, so that this issue would not become a problem. Relax.

Im asking for information regarding IBD and what one should look for in the reports.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Didn't you mention earlier you didn't bring your laptop to work so you couldn't read and reply? I'm assuming you are at work now and NOT doing company business.

And just for your information, where i work is of no concern to you, or what we are allowed to do with our computers. Keep the thread on topic. Im not the kind of person that goes sneaking around, hiding information, or making up stories, or doing something that would put myself in jeopardy from losing my job.

and for the record, i am currently responding from home. and frequently respond from work as well. Not all businesses have regulations on internet usage, especially one like mine.

 

[Craigh]

My only issue with Dan is he has yet to prove anything with any solid evidence. Not one email you know the ones with the headers on to to prove there real. Not one Vet statement, taking in imports with out getting them checked out before shipping and sell. Its all hearsay on his part. I am not jumping on any sorta band wagon. Just posting my opinion on the said matter. This forums is here for us to hear the sides of the stories and to make up are own minds. The only thing I have made up so far is Dan is a lair, very reckless, and someone I hope no ones does business with. There are a lot of other dealers you can get unusual hand picked, and venomous.

I also don't blame Chuck for letting us know about an issue so serious . Yes this does involve the community he is still selling Boa's so this might effect others and there collection

 

[jscrick]

OK then, what is your experience and background in Herpetoculture?
Show me your credentials. What have you done in the past? What are you currently doing? Do you have any commercial interests? Do you have references?
How are you qualified to take an issue with this topic?
I did call the vet. They will not be offering any information. From what they told me sounded like you inquired in a very covertly anonymous fashion. Some might say a somewhat dishonest and sneaky manner.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Frank,
No doubt. My point is that there are many levels to this issue, and many areas that require damage control. Being here arguing does not lend itself to any lessening of those problems.

Dan is primarily a buyer/reseller. The dynamics of his own logistical situation would dictate much about how he could pursue remedies. I think a buyer's expectation should be different based upon whether they are buying from a breeder of higher-end boids, or an importer/reseller. It may be a bigger issue for the person from whom Dan acquired that snake, not that Dan doesn't face problems, but again, Dan's solutions could be easier. Dan may not now have a single snake that he had when that animal passed through. He may be able to continue his business with new arrivals in different cages quarantined from where earlier animals had been, and then pursue a course of action with that "infected" area, those animals and cages remaining in it, etc.

Assume he puts down 1-5-10 animals, pays for necropsies, etc. Then what? He's got more animals coming and going weekly, if not daily. As a buyer/reseller, he can't possibly screen all. Reality is that you are not going to get a quarantine of animals with such a business, where you could expect new arrivals are held for 3-12 months pending resale to see if they have symptoms, especially when dealing with lower-end animals. That's the economics of it.

Can he improve his image ? Sure. Don't ship two snakes in the same bag. Don't come here to argue. Do a better job of being pro-active in problem solving. To the extent it is feasible, improve quarantine procedures and publicize such. It might require putting down a couple animals now, paying for results, and posting said. Integrity in all transactions is what builds reputations. There are better ways to build a reputation than what has happened in this thread.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

OK then, what is your experience and background in Herpetoculture?
Show me your credentials. What have you done in the past? What are you currently doing? Do you have any commercial interests? Do you have references?
How are you qualified to take an issue with this topic?
I did call the vet. They will not be offering any information. From what they told me sounded like you inquired in a very covertly anonymous fashion. Some might say a somewhat dishonest and sneaky manner.

Nope, i told them why i was calling, and about what, but I specifically stated i wanted information on the Specific Inclusion bodies associated with IBD, and that was it.

I do not sneak around. That is 100% guaranteed. I told them Who the vet was when she asked, and when she asked me who the Necropsy was done for, i told them your name.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Nope, i told them why i was calling, and about what, but I specifically stated i wanted information on the Specific Inclusion bodies associated with IBD, and that was it.

I do not sneak around. That is 100% guaranteed. I told them Who the vet was when she asked, and when she asked me who the Necropsy was done for, i told them your name.

You also realize i have no issue calling another apropriate vet, and asking them the information. All i want is confirmation on what inclusion bodies are associated with IBD. and that is it.

So, for your own sake, i wont be calling your vet tomorrow. How is that? does it make you feel more comfortable? I will gladly find another vet/lab and ask them their opinion instead.

Have a nice day!!!

 

[Laura Fopiano]

Why are you calling the lab regarding my test results? Just like I told Chuck -- I didn't want him fighting my battles for me, I don't want you fighting my battles for me either
What gives you the right to ask others not to butt into something that is none of their business when that is exactly what you are doing?

You made it her business when you sent out that vet report to Chuck. It becomes public information when posted on a public web site. It is now "our" business to choose whether to buy from you or Dan. And personally I choose neither.

It's never been a secret that I euthanized my whole collection 4 years ago. Over 40 animals from breeding adults to babies, gone.
I made many mistakes back then, I cross contaminated my own collection by sharing feeding tubs, rotating animals during breeding (putting my males together to start breeding compition) Not throwing away uneaten food and giving it to the next hungry mouth. Not having enough cage space and putting more than one snake in the same tub.
an exert from my own histopathology reports "a few hepatocytes in the sample contains cytoplasmic eosinophilic inclusions consitant with boid inclusion body disease"
You see, it only takes a few, they multiply and can lay dormant for years. This I know, it happened to me and with out propper quarantine can happen to any of us.

We know have a q time of a minimum of 6 months. We have a small group that have been sitting in our room since July of last year. Our snake house is 20 yards away from our home. We take no more chances no matter who the seller is. I lost it all before, I will never go through that emotionally and costly experience again!

I'm going to call the lab myself an tell the vet not to discuss my case with you, period.
Didn't you mention earlier you didn't bring your laptop to work so you couldn't read and reply? I'm assuming you are at work now and NOT doing company business. I would very much like to talk to your employer if that is the case to inform them you are doing things unrelated to company business on their time.
Where do you people get all this self righteous indignation?
You people are truly sick!
Does anyone really wonder why I didn't want this posted?
jsc

And you my dear make me sick, how dare you threaten to call her employer, she's at home right now! And you didn't want it posted because it is conclusive with IBD!! A deadly retro virus that kills boids, be it fast or slow it kills PERIOD!

What really disturbs me the most about this is the inability to take personal responsibility, is making a buck really that important to you? I understand your not wanting to come forward, I truly do. It takes guts, courrage and responsibility to this hobby and industry to come forward and say "I had IBD in my collection and I did the right thing" "I notified all of those who bought from me" "I euthanized my collection for the good of the animals and the hobby" I took personal responsibility for my mistakes and actions" "I had live liver biopsies preformed from a random group of my boas" "I got one positive" "They are all dead now"
None of that I am seeing here from you or the seller and that in itself is what really makes me sick!

 

[ravensgait]

John , I was the one who questioned your motives for not posting this information yourself. I have a question for you, After seeing Inclusion in the pathology report why didn't you have them do a virology test? It is obvious from that report that there is some Virus present but you didn't bother to find out what it is Or you did and haven't released that report.

You seem upset that Chuck put that info and report in this thread, I can understand that but before all else it was something you should have done yourself. That is my first problem with you, now you are here trying to do damage control and failing miserably. Trying to stop someone from having the vet explain their use of a word and to keep the reptile community from getting more information on yours and Dan's potential problem isn't helping your appearance here. Makes it look like you may really have something to hide..

You say we are butting in but we wouldn't need to if you and Dan were honest and put all the information out and were open about it.. I'd guess you are going to get some grief but not because of the info but because your actions here and attitude towards this issue. Randy

 

[jscrick]

Yes. That was the point Chuck. The snake was obviously not healthy plump and feeding. That is all.
jsc

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I don't want to badger the mods, but if you're going to delete other peoples' third party anonymous quotes [that are actually relevant to the topic, and not tooting one's self righteous horn as "good customers"], you should delete Dan's:

There is a "report a post" button located on each post. Don't assume that every single post is read by a moderator. If you feel that a poster violated a rule, use it.
In general, I can't guarantee that your view of a post will be the same as the moderator looking at it or that the action taken is what you feel is appropriate.
But, we do have a better chance of viewing the post if you report it.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

You see, I expect I will now be attacked by those in this circular firing squad because I have a slightly different opinion and don't blindly follow the pack in their name calling attack. I know my reputation is somewhat diminished through association with this thread on the Bureau of Intimidation and that broad brush they use. That is what I didn't want. I should have known better.
jsc

Seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Then with a very broad brush you precede to do what you claim will be done to you.

Where do you people get all this self righteous indignation?
You people are truly sick!
Does anyone really wonder why I didn't want this posted?
jsc

 

[MikeCurtin]

OK. First I can respond to this question. Having read the report and having talked to several knowledgeable boa people who's opinions I trust, I agree that the report I got from Texas A&M is not conclusive for the IBD virus in the suspect snake.
My only point for sharing this with Chuck was to provide my opinion that Dan does sometimes fail to tell the truth and to accept responsibility for the facts and I provided credible evidence to back up my opinion. Dan said the same things to me he said to the Kid. I told Dan not to insult my intelligence with such stuff.
The reason I personally did not want to bring all this up on the BOI, as I stated to Chuck, was I didn't want my name and reputation smeared, as Chuck has already done by claiming my motive had something to do with me not wanting anyone to know I'm scared to death I might have IBD in my collection. I do not have IBD in my collection. That snake never got anywhere close to my animals.
I owe Dan an apology for this misjudgement on my part. I assumed Chuck was a man of integrity as he constantly rails at others to be. As Dan stated and I agree, if you want rare and unusual hand picked imports or venomous, he is the man to see. He is not for the novice. Not for the beginner. Yes, he is difficult. He has a huge ego. He and I aren't on as good of terms as we used to be. We have agreed not to do business with one another in the future. But please, don't you try to insist he be all things to all people.
You see, I expect I will now be attacked by those in this circular firing squad because I have a slightly different opinion and don't blindly follow the pack in their name calling attack. I know my reputation is somewhat diminished through association with this thread on the Bureau of Intimidation and that broad brush they use. That is what I didn't want. I should have known better.
jsc

I feel your actions, regardless of motive and Chuck's actions, have been quite irresponsible. If you are satisfied that the snake(s) you received from Dan do not have IBD, your sending of this report to Chuck without any additional info was intentionally misleading and put Chuck in a very bad spot. With what we know about this retrovirus and its seriousness, what was he expected to do? Especially when you conveniently left out any mention of the fact that you believe this snake did not in fact have IBD, this report could effect every person who bought a boid from Dan, as well as Dan himself.

This is assuming you in fact had information ruling out IBD and this isn't a CYA kinda thing. Can you please elaborate on this?