Dan Scolaro bad guy.

[spawn]

Right, and if the animals don't sell in the first few days, he's got boids in his possession, despite that he says he doesn't deal with them anymore.

You bring a very good point, it's very difficult to ask from anyone to put on hold all sales for an extended period of time, particularly those who do this for a living.

I agree if the person were doing it for a living. But, Dan has said time and again he does this out of hobby now, and not for the money. I of course don't believe him. If he did it out of fun he wouldn't have as many sales as he said he did, or the prices that he does. So, I actually think putting down a couple critters and suspending sales wouldn't be even that detrimental to him if he had in fact been doing this just for "fun". Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Phobos]

Hi:

Thanks for the replies regarding my post.

I was only making sure everybody is clear on the science part of this problem. There is no easy or trustworthy medical solution to this issue presently. Dan's solution is not so simple either because of the nature of the disease. If it were me but I would stop selling all Boids at least till I figured it out, this is clear.

Al

 

[Craigh]

Hi:

Thanks for the replies regarding my post.

I was only making sure everybody is clear on the science part of this problem. There is no easy or trustworthy medical solution to this issue presently. Dan's solution is not so simple either because of the nature of the disease. If it were me but I would stop selling all Boids at least till I figured it out, this is clear.

Al

If this was you I don't think this thread would of gotten to 185 pages or even started . That was everyones concern with Dan the way he handle it.....

 

[Jim O]

Hi:

Thanks for the replies regarding my post.

I was only making sure everybody is clear on the science part of this problem. There is no easy or trustworthy medical solution to this issue presently. Dan's solution is not so simple either because of the nature of the disease. If it were me but I would stop selling all Boids at least till I figured it out, this is clear.

Al

Al,

Correct me if I am wrong. This is a long thread and I may have it confused but didn't you say earlier that you would have no problem doing business with Dan again? If it wasn't you I apologize in advance.

Even if it were only animals that were likely not susceptible to IBD, wouldn't you have an issue doing business with someone who is acting this way? Do you want to support his doing unethical business?

 

[jrgh17]

Hold on I don't agree with your #4 but the other points (1, 3) except for the testing part are valid...Tests are deemed NOT conclusive according to the paper you sited:

Do take steps that are logical but not ridiculous, we have enough "knee jerk" reactions out world leaders, why add to pervasive stupidity. You and everybody on this forum isolates every animal for 6 to 12 months , right?

Al

I don't think that having some of his animals tested is considered "ridiculous", considering an animal from his stock had IBD. Actually, I think it's a very modest solution. Ideally, he would have each and every single animal done - but as soon as I say that you (and probably a few others) are going to tell me how unreasonable I am being. The likelihood of having every animal in his collection tested, not finding inclusion bodies in even one, yet some still have IBD, is incredible. But doing that isn't necessary at this point, because the sick snake could've picked it up elsewhere.

It is true that a random sampling is not perfect. It is much more likely that if there is IBD in Dan's collection, it will slip through the cracks. I'd love it if you could come up with a better solution to be fairly certain that a collection doesn't have IBD? Don't forget that snakes can be asymptomatic carriers for years.

There's a sliding scale of options, ranging from "pretend this never happened" to "euthanize and test the entire collection right now". I'm not sure what problem you have with a nice low to medium solution that can offer at least a degree of certainty. Medical testing (as everyone who's in the animal sciences or medicine) knows, is rarely about a definite 'yes' or 'no'. Every time you go to a doctor, or take an animal to a vet, they are going on the likely answer based on the data they've been given. If none of the x number of animals Dan tests show inclusion bodies, it is likely that his collections have been spared from IBD. If you have a better idea, please let me know.

 

[Mckenzie_river_reptiles]

Good question Jim, Anyone can say they are doing something and just as the saying goes give it lip service. I'm not in the snake business and can only really look at your question from what I know is done in the large animal industries. Which isn't any help to us here as we have no oversight. To me it looks like Dan is in a bad way as far as trying to prove his animals and facility are clean. he's told so may lies and so much BS that most wouldn't take his word for it even if he did something. He's shot himself and seems to have just realised what he's done.

If it were me this is what I'd do.
First thing would be to shut down and disinfect, no animals in or out. I'd contact an expert on the subject and ask for advice and help. I'd notify recent customers letting them know the problem and encouraging them to QUARANTINE. I'd get the word out publicly, as having it come from me is far better than hearing who knows what from others.. I'd closely watch animals that came from the same room or what have you as the affected animal. IF the experts thought it a good idea I'd give them an animal or three from that room for testing. I would try to keep information flowing as much as possible, keep people informed, informed people are no where near as scared as the uninformed are.. It is trying to hide things like this that do the most damage and things like this can't be kept secret forever. From this point who really knows as we are talking about something we know kills but don't really know much about it. I'll add this and this would be hard , Say they found one or more of my animals were carrying IBD I would have to seriously consider killing a number or all my animals to stop it ! well if I were a dealer that is. A privite collector can just close his collection and deal with what comes.

The money thing comes to mind IE what if someone bought an animal from you that had IBD and infected their collection just how much exposure do you have in this circumstance. I guess when it comes down to it a court may have to decide . I would think your exposure would be worse if you did like Dan and tried to BS your way out of it and well tried to hide it.


This is harder on Wholesalers ETC that just your average collector, they have animals in and out and a constant fight with Mites ETC. The big guys are a whole other story and would take a far bigger hit if they had a serious outbreak. It is hard to put the good of the industry ahead of you and yours but I would hope they would deal with the problem the right way.

How long do you shut down for? I don't know that would be left to the opinion of the experts but if this were a business that ones livelihood depends on, shutting down for any period of time could be disastrous. I would think that letting the Vets necropsy a few of your animals would shorten the down time and that with say a serious cleaning and disinfecting would make you good to go again. Seems to me the more proactive you are the quicker you can get it taken care of and get things back up and running.

Jim, I look at what Dan did here as the worst thing one could do in the situation he found himself in. Hopefully Dan's example will show the next person that lying and trying to hide it is going to hurt them worse in the long run, as I said you can't keep it quiet. People will find out and then your chit is weak, people wont want to believe you are taking care of it after the fact they wont trust you. Being honest and upfront about it will still hurt but not as bad as what has happened here. If you were a good business person before this happened people will see that and see you doing the right thing, sure you'll take a hit in the pocket but being dishonest will cost far more so much you might not recover. Yeah not much help but all I have at almost 2 in the morning. Anyone else with any thoughts on this please jump in. Randy

. But Danny Boy is more interested in selling his dead shi* to people. He is not interested in the good of the community, he is a broker...not that I have anything against brokers. Some of them are just in for the money. LIKE DAN! If he does test, quaratine, etc...then he might be able to get his "good" name back. But clearly he is not interested in doing so. As he still has Boids for sale on kingsnake.com. Dano is going to cause the community some damage! We should alert Kingsnake.com that he is not a good source...and he is possibly spreading IBD

 

[E2MacPets]

Al,

Correct me if I am wrong. This is a long thread and I may have it confused but didn't you say earlier that you would have no problem doing business with Dan again? If it wasn't you I apologize in advance.

Even if it were only animals that were likely not susceptible to IBD, wouldn't you have an issue doing business with someone who is acting this way? Do you want to support his doing unethical business?

 

[spawn]

I'm not really interested in entering this full scale pissing match but I will say the following two things:

1) I've Known Dan for several years and seen his collection when I've been in the area to visit. I've never seen any sick or neglected animals in his collection. I've done business with him in the past and will continue to do so because I've found him to be fair and completely trustworthy returning funds promptly when animals arrived to him in less than healthy condition, rather than sending them on to me the customer.

2) I also know that BOI is not always a fair venue for discussions having been there myself. It seems more like a feeding frenzy than an actual distillation of facts.

Al

(Post #827)

 

[Jim O]

Al,

You were quick to defend Dan. I asked you a simple question. Your silence speaks for itself.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

My animal could totally come back with negative results.

I'm the first to admit that sometimes, I am a jackass.

I'll also be the first to admit that I try to do what I think is right despite *what I think* is poor advice. I don't really think that a responsible herper would do anything that I did not, outiside of stay quiet.

I might have missed it in this thread here, but have you gotten your test results back?

I would hope theyre negative for you and your animals sake.

Regardless, even if they did come back negative, Dan is someone i would never do business with. Coupled with the fact that he didnt and probably still dosnt know what IBD is, and didnt give a damn if he MIGHT have it, speaks volumes to me.

It just aint worth the risk.

 

[Uroboros]

I do not have any written results yet, but I thought I would post what I know from a phone call.

They found no inclusion bodies. The digestive tract looked good and the only problem they found was encephalitis. They tell me that it could be from some sort of virus, not IBD. They found no unusual bacteria, worms, or other parasites, and no IBD.

Regardless, even if they did come back negative, Dan is someone i would never do business with. Coupled with the fact that he didnt and probably still dosnt know what IBD is, and didnt give a damn if he MIGHT have it, speaks volumes to me.

That is my concern. Dan, in person, is a great guy that I'd be happy to buy a beer for. His absolute disregard for how dangerous IBD is is what I find disturbing.

So, no IBD, two dead snakes that started to go downhill and never got better despite ~$460 in vet bills, and no documented reason why. I'm certain that one of us here will claim that I just killed them through inexperience, and although I am inexperienced with emeralds, that person won't be me. I still have two perfectly healthy happy emeralds that I don't treat any different than I treated these two.

Good luck to the org costa rican boa poster.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Good to hear. I relly do wish you well on the remaining two that you have. Hopefully they will continue to do well for you.

 

[Uroboros]

Good to hear. I relly do wish you well on the remaining two that you have. Hopefully they will continue to do well for you.

Thanks, my remaining *four. I've had one male for some time, perfectly happy and healthy, I got one male from Dan, perfectly happy and healthy. I just received two (omg, I didn't know they got this big) from someone else. Knocking on wood.

 

[GottaLuvHerps]

so glad!

After everything, I am so glad to hear that there was no IBD. I just hope Dan doesn't turn this into an "I told you so" post, because I still don't think he got the point of why everyone was so upset.

 

[yoyoing]

I have dealt with Dan on a few occasions with complete satisfaction. Not having read all the posts, I will venture a comment.
The point seems to be how Dan handled one bad transaction. I did not notice alot of folks jumping on board with other horror stories.
Maybe this failure is due to a lack of experience with dissatisfied customers. I usually don't trust companies with sophisticated, double talking customer service (complaint) departments.
I would do business with the man again, and he does have some animals I am considering buying.

 

[ravensgait]

James you might want to read the thread as you have totally missed the most important point.. Especially if you're thinking of buying from him again.. Does IBD make you worried?? Randy

 

[yoyoing]

In my case, no. I don't have susceptible animals. But weren't the results negative? This just seems like a bit too much of a feeding frenzy over just one mishandled incident.

 

[jrgh17]

In my case, no. I don't have susceptible animals. But weren't the results negative? This just seems like a bit too much of a feeding frenzy over just one mishandled incident.

What animals do you have?

In this thread, if you read, you will see several cases where IBD was found in snakes other than pythons and boas...

 

[Craigh]

In my case, no. I don't have susceptible animals. But weren't the results negative? This just seems like a bit too much of a feeding frenzy over just one mishandled incident.

Yes the thread started out as a mishandled incident, but start at page 41 or 42 where IBD in one of Dans snakes came up. See how Dan handle the situation and let me know what you think. Also IBD has been found in pit vipers forgot what page the report was posted on...

 

[yoyoing]

NA crotalids and cobras.
If I don't go back and read, the impression given is that IBD has been found. Is that the case?