Bad Guy Dav Kaufman - Beware

[ORTALLERICO]

I will not hold my breath as I believe that your complete and utter lack of response shows your intentions. I bet if it was someone inquiring about your animals for sale you would answer right away!

 

[btmansfi]

ok back.....sorry get started talking about snakes and I lose time! Might have help with a website finally though.

So we are talking about $1545 here to be paid back by Dav Kaufman for the missing main gene in this snake. Here is the break down of my offer to put Dav back in good standing with this community and prove what he is in it for. This does involve people here though so pay attention

First Dav is to pay Fauna classifieds $545 to further help fund this site so all can enjoy it. This money will help Rich keep it up and add enhancements to it. As much as I would like to nudge Rich to make me an endowment member for my "Contribution" I would only ask that he atleast give me karma.....never had karma from the big man! Closest was having April slap my pee pee once....it was worth it

Second Dav make a $1000 donation to USARK in the name of fauna classifieds so that it will help them further the support of fighting to keep our rights to keep, enjoy, and love our animals. Rich will be able to take the $1000 donation tax credit.....because the big man gave me karma

Third I am keeping the snake that I have housed, fed, and paid for, not getting a single cent for the missing main gene.

I do know that is a bit demanding of me but all I can say is F**K IT! I am here for my animals, I coach little league to be a positive role model for my son, I will work for my money.....Dav, what are you here for buddy? When should Rich expect the credit card?

also, I do want it known that from my last post.....no chihuahua's were hurt in the breeding with the snake

If Dave doesn't accept that, he clearly does not care one iota about his "20 year reputation".

Props to you Randy for the suggestion. I applaud you for the way you've handled this issue.

 

[ORTALLERICO]

Here is a link to Mr Kaufman herp nation interview. That snake looks like a Leo pied a bit.

http://www.herpnation.com/audio/ra3-091812/?simple_nav_category=audio

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

ok back.....sorry get started talking about snakes and I lose time! Might have help with a website finally though.

So we are talking about $1545 here to be paid back by Dav Kaufman for the missing main gene in this snake. Here is the break down of my offer to put Dav back in good standing with this community and prove what he is in it for. This does involve people here though so pay attention

First Dav is to pay Fauna classifieds $545 to further help fund this site so all can enjoy it. This money will help Rich keep it up and add enhancements to it. As much as I would like to nudge Rich to make me an endowment member for my "Contribution" I would only ask that he atleast give me karma.....never had karma from the big man! Closest was having April slap my pee pee once....it was worth it

Second Dav make a $1000 donation to USARK in the name of fauna classifieds so that it will help them further the support of fighting to keep our rights to keep, enjoy, and love our animals. Rich will be able to take the $1000 donation tax credit.....because the big man gave me karma

Third I am keeping the snake that I have housed, fed, and paid for, not getting a single cent for the missing main gene.

I do know that is a bit demanding of me but all I can say is F**K IT! I am here for my animals, I coach little league to be a positive role model for my son, I will work for my money.....Dav, what are you here for buddy? When should Rich expect the credit card?

also, I do want it known that from my last post.....no chihuahua's were hurt in the breeding with the snake

Randy, to be clear, is your expectation/desire for Dav to pay out $1545 (regardless of receiving party/parties) and for you to be able to keep the snake?

 

[Randy F]

Yes. I believe with time and money lost that we can't prove, what myself and others have done in the same sitsuations that it is not asking too much.......is it?

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Yes. I believe with time and money lost that we can't prove, what myself and others have done in the same sitsuations that it is not asking too much.......is it?

I think it is, but that is me. What you have done in a similar situation was your choice. Not making the same choice does not mean that alternative is necessarily the wrong choice.

 

[btmansfi]

I think it is, but that is me. What you have done in a similar situation was your choice. Not making the same choice does not mean that alternative is necessarily the wrong choice.

You're not serious, are you?

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

You're not serious, are you?

I am.

He should be refunded for the purchase of something he did not agree to receive and the snake should be returned to the person who sold it to him as something it was not. He also benefited from offspring. Not to the degree desired, but they were also not of zero value. That side stuff is his to profit from (or give away if that is what pleases him).

If I do something beyond what I owe for a buyer, that is my option. If I do so, it does not lay an onus upon other sellers to be obligated to go beyond what they owe.

 

[btmansfi]

I am.

He should be refunded for the purchase of something he did not agree to receive and the snake should be returned to the person who sold it to him as something it was not. He also benefited from offspring. Not to the degree desired, but they were also not of zero value. That side stuff is his to profit from (or give away if that is what pleases him).

If I do something beyond what I owe for a buyer, that is my option. If I do so, it does not lay an onus upon other sellers to be obligated to go beyond what they owe.

But he lied. He sold Randy a leopard pied that was just a pied. To say he doesn't owe Randy anything less than $1,545 is insane.

Are you saying that if you sold someone leopard pied that turned out to be just a pied, you wouldn't refund them the full purchase price? If so, let me know so I can make a note to never purchase anything from you.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

But he lied. He sold Randy a leopard pied that was just a pied. To say he doesn't owe Randy anything less than $1,545 is insane.

Are you saying that if you sold someone leopard pied that turned out to be just a pied, you wouldn't refund them the full purchase price? If so, let me know so I can make a note to never purchase anything from you.

I do not know if the mislabeling was intentional or not, but it does not sit well with me and I do not agree with 1) that if it was in fact intentionally mislabeled and 2) the seeming change of role from owner to (claimed) middleman.

Randy is owed his money back, but that does not give him the right to the property that money was exchanged for. If a seller wants to do that (let him also keep the snake) as a nice gesture, that is within the seller's range of options.

If a description on my animal was discovered to mistakenly incorrect, I would refund my buyer upon safe return of the animal to me. I do not care from whom you buy or from whom you do not buy. That is your freedom.

 

[btmansfi]

I do not know if the mislabeling was intentional or not, but it does not sit well with me and I do not agree with 1) that if it was in fact intentionally mislabeled and 2) the seeming change of role from owner to (claimed) middleman.

Randy is owed his money back, but that does not give him the right to the property that money was exchanged for. If a seller wants to do that (let him also keep the snake) as a nice gesture, that is within the seller's range of options.

If a description on my animal was discovered to mistakenly incorrect, I would refund my buyer upon safe return of the animal to me. I do not care from whom you buy or from whom you do not buy. That is your freedom.

Noted.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

To say he doesn't owe Randy anything less than $1,545 is insane.

I must be having some comprehension problems because I don't see where he stated that in the post before or after this one.

Randy is owed his money back, but that does not give him the right to the property that money was exchanged for.

He should be refunded for the purchase of something he did not agree to receive and the snake should be returned to the person who sold it to him as something it was not.

 

[ORTALLERICO]

Noted.

Noted for me also

 

[Black Adder]

20 years to build a solid reputation
20 pages of BOI to tear it down
Yea I know we are not quite at 20 pages yet but I am sure we will be and 18 did not sound right.......

 

[Randy F]

I think it is, but that is me. What you have done in a similar situation was your choice. Not making the same choice does not mean that alternative is necessarily the wrong choice.

At this point it is not what's fair to me or him. I am giving up any and all monies to make it right, he would be giving up the animal. So in a sense he is giving up a $350 animal and I am giving up a $1545 refund.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

At this point it is not what's fair to me or him. I am giving up any and all monies to make it right, he would be giving up the animal. So in a sense he is giving up a $350 animal and I am giving up a $1545 refund.

If you are keeping the snake, you are not giving everything up, though, and you would be pushing him to give up the money and the animal.

If you do not want to keep the money, that is your choice. Him giving up or keeping the animal should be his choice.

 

[AllisonLeigh]

It may be reaching but in that case you could sell all kinds of "hets", have your customers do you test breeding for you and just refund them what they paid 2 years later and everyone should be happy with the outcome? That means the customer has now done all the work test breeding the animal for you when you should have done it before attaching such a high price tag to it! That sounds a little out to lunch to me. I agree it shouldn't necessarily be assumed the customer keeps the animal but if the seller didn't take the return AS SOON as it was brought to their attention then I think they gave up their right to the animal. Of course that's just my opinion and is no way me stating that's law. Just seems silly to think 2 years later just getting your purchase price is acceptable. That's two years of a time, space and financial investment that the seller now gets nothing from through no fault of his own.

If you have very clear TOS stating this is how you would handle your guarantee then it's your choice how you treat your customer in this case but given this situation and your stance I think I'd rather not be your customer in that case. At least without knowing that is the risk, and if that risk was attached to a 1500$ price tag I wouldn't be taking it.

 

[btmansfi]

Dave, where are you? It's been 3 days and going on 200 posts. How do you plan to remedy the situation? Randy and multiple others have provided suggestions. At some point in time do you plan to respond?

If your reputation is so important to you, how about you step up and take care of the customer? You claim to stand behind your product. The item sold to Randy was not what it was advertised to be. At a minimum you need to refund Randy $1,545 and pay for him to return the snake to you. End of story.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

It may be reaching but in that case you could sell all kinds of "hets", have your customers do you test breeding for you and just refund them what they paid 2 years later and everyone should be happy with the outcome? That means the customer has now done all the work test breeding the animal for you when you should have done it before attaching such a high price tag to it! That sounds a little out to lunch to me. I agree it shouldn't necessarily be assumed the customer keeps the animal but if the seller didn't take the return AS SOON as it was brought to their attention then I think they gave up their right to the animal. Of course that's just my opinion and is no way me stating that's law. Just seems silly to think 2 years later just getting your purchase price is acceptable. That's two years of a time, space and financial investment that the seller now gets nothing from through no fault of his own.

If you have very clear TOS stating this is how you would handle your guarantee then it's your choice how you treat your customer in this case but given this situation and your stance I think I'd rather not be your customer in that case. At least without knowing that is the risk, and if that risk was attached to a 1500$ price tag I wouldn't be taking it.

Anyone can abuse anything. That does not mean we should take advantage because of what someone could do. There was no forfeiture term that I saw.

I think our concepts of nothing differ. 16-17 hatchlings constitute something even if they fall short of the desire.

 

[CwnAnnwn]

Mr Foster's offer is community minded, but as Mr. Anastasiou as pointed out it is not realistic.

Mr Kaufman does technology own the snake if there is a refund issued. It could choose to give it up, but that is on his shoulders.

The three offers that seem to be with in reach of everyone commenting.

1.) Mr Kaufman refunds the 1545 dollars and said python to Mr Foster.
2.) Mr Kaufman refunds the 1545 dollars and said python is shipped back to Mr Kaufman at his expense, including insurance to cover the python.
3.) Mr Kaufman refunds the 1545 dollars minus the average price for a pied python, and Mr Foster keeps the said animal.

We have Mr Foster agreeing to at least one of these terms. Mr Kaufman has refused to participate.

The one thing I need to know. What is fair market value for a pied python?

Randy says 350? Anyone else?