Dave Lawson & Neil Gubitz

[brucestephenson]

January 2004 is D-Day for Hillsborough County (Tampa Bay), Florida where Neil and may other breeders and dealers reside. The County Commission Meeting of January, 2004. It will affect or infect the rest of Florida.

 

[brucestephenson]

Sorry, that's (many) other breeders and dealers.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Bruce.... I'll be there, and I hope that everyone else will be, too!.... If this ban goes through, it will eventually affect every residential area in every State in the Union!.... Don't let this happen, make arrangements to BE THERE and let YOUR voice be heard!

Neil

 

[brucestephenson]

Here is a very easy e-mail form to send your comments to the Hillsborough County Commissioners:
http://www.hillsboroughcounty.org/mail/email.html

 

[The BoidSmith]

History repeats itself...

Adam,

Tom just used a popular quote to make a point accross. A person can agree or disagree with his point. The important thing though is to understand people view things differently, and respect their opinions.

That's a very foolish way to think.

This statement speaks about yourself and not about Tom at all. It is you that think those are foolish thoughts.

It's people that say things like that who never help bring change about because they're so set in their ways they don't think others can grow, mature and change.

When change happens (and believe me when the time comes you will know it) you don't need to tell the world it has. They already know because they have learned about it from your actions. When people change they don't need to tell others they "have seen the light", they are different, etc. The day one changes there is no need to criticize the opinions of those that don't agree with you.

If you don't think you're in control of your own life and are too weak to bring about change don't pass that flawed thinking on to other people.

To be in control of your own life you need to read through Tom's post and try to understand what he meant. If you are upset by what he wrote and feel the need to criticize him then you are not in control. By saying Tom has "foolish thoughts", "he is weak to bring about change", and he has "flawed thinking" you are not in reality talking about him at all. What you are saying is "I have wise thoughts", "I am strong to bring about change", "my thinking is not flawed".

Most of the people on the BOI never pick up a phone and get to know the person on the other end.

No matter, my feeling, has been from the start, is if you don't know the person, have never dealt with them and have made no effort to find out who they really are. My feeling then is you're weak and need to prey on the weaker to make yourself feel like you have some self worth.

Maybe by talking with Tom on the phone your opinion about his thoughts would have differed.

Most all of us change. But it's not something that will happen from one day to the next. When it happens, you most likely will not feel the need to post it in the BOI for everyone to read about it.

Kindly.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Well.... I've done everything I can to attempt amends.... I know some of you are skeptical and I understand why.... But, why is it that everyone is always ready to see the bad, rather than even a little bit of good??.... Even with irrevocable evidence of exoneration??.... This childish arguing only makes everyone, including myself, look like unintelligent people.... I think it's best that I discontinue making any further futile attempts when it comes to some members of the BOI.... I would ask, however, that you give me the rope that you claim I have.... If I do hang myself, you can always come back on here and say, "I told you so"!.... Fair enough??

Neil

 

[Stardust]

OH gosh, I can hardly swallow anything an "I told you so" person says. But Neil, I am sure that rope is there and as we have talked about "knots" I am sure you know all to well that playing with rope hurts, so be careful how you use it.
Alvaro, I totally agree that when a person changes, there is no need for bragging, it shows out on its own and anyone with and open mind with be able to see that. But, as far as Tom goes, he did say what I was saying was silly and it came out of the blue, after I thought the subject was over.
I would write to Tom and explain some things but, hey, one never knows what will be posted or not.
I am a believer in actions speak louder than words. Words do not carry a lot of weight with me, that being said, I do not believe Toms words had actions in it. IE..... reading the whole post..... doing the homework before he writes. Not wise to just take up where you do not have all the facts of what people have written.
As far as Adam, this is the first time that I have said anything about him but I think he is showing that he can be productive here, he is showing he can post in what he believes to be helping, he is able to be truthful to himself on his stance on the topic at hand with it agrees with others or not, that is something I can respect. With regards to Neil and Adam, both have said they were wrong. It takes strength and guts to do that and in my eyes it is the first step in change. To the other who bar that path to change I hold less respect for.

 

[Stardust]

Since, I rarely re-read my posts, a definite flaw on my side. Geesh.
I forgot to say that in regards to turning over leaves, it makes it very hard indeed to turn those leaves over when SOME people are stepping on them.

 

[John Apple]

Determination can move any leaf no matter how big the rock or foot.

keep hammering away

 

[KNOBTAIL]

NEIL, the best advise I could give,

would be to "go about your business", dont give anyone an opportunity to use you as a whipping boy, or say, I told you so. This thread was originally about the exploits of Dave Lawson. Fortunately for you, some good has traveled your way. Your back at the BOI, and hopefully, you will stay.

I personally think if all the difficulties that you may have caused for yourself were put on a scale with the good things you have done, you may be surprised to find that you outshine a hell of lot of others that have posted here. JERRY TRESSER

 

[Python Dreams]

Adam,
History does repeat itself... In general it is considered to be a truth and is something that I learned in History class. Does that mean a person cannot change? No!!! I can understand why it bothers you that I said this because you are a person that really needs the change.. All I see from you is self destructive behavior followed up by a speal about how you changed. I know this is how you gauge what you personally learned, but alot or people can just learn and they dont have to screw people over, lie, manipulate or any of the other things that you have admitted too. Personally I have plenty of things that I can change in my life that I feel would make me a better person.. But none of them have ever stemmed from lies or ripping off another person in any way.... I don't need that type of growth, most decent people learn that at a young age, and I hope that the ones that don't can CHANGE, but the prisons are over full with changed people...
Rozann,
I do think it is silly that you basically will give Neil a good guy post... I didn't think silly was that harsh of a word, but anyone that took my family or purposely sent my daughter 2 sick animals would be written off in my book... That way their is no possibility that a rookie might stumble across my post leading him to a possible awful purchase... I also think you should read my post more carefully because I stated I have knowledge of other bad dealings, but would never state them here out of respect for the person that told me. I have also recieved private messages before regarding threads and it was very civil and I never mentioned a thing about it. Actions are much louder than words, and believe me if I had a past like Adam or Neil, you would be hearing about my actions.. I also want to know what homework I did not do pertaining to this thread or whatever incident you are talking about. I do think it's strange to see how everyone wants to congratulate said "bad guy" the moment he says he is going to change.... The more bad this guy has done, the less people will believe it.... I find it funny you have more respect for someone that ripped off your family along with countless others bad deals, or anyone that has shown complete instability in business and personally here on the boi, then you would have respect for someone that has never ripped anyone off and can control his temper and posts, and basically is trying to keep people from getting ripped off.. I guess we all have differing viewpoints on what warrants respect....
I think my viewpoint is not exactly the most popular here, but it is my viewpoint. Alvaro read it with an open mind and I thank him for responding inmy defence. I will probably get this picked apart and then have to respond, but we can leave it at what it is... A viewpoint.. My opinion cannot block the change that is so apparently coming, in fact it should fuel an inner fire to keep Neil or Adam trying as hard as they can to change and prove me or whoever wrong.... It is impossible to block somebodies path if they want to change....
Thanks, Tom Baker

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

I wonder where............

I wonder where....Mr. Lawson has now run off to. I think this thread should be permanantly posted at the top of the BOI.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Rob.... with every leaf in the 100 acre forest I have to turn over, I'm also looking under every rock to see which one he slithered under....
Of course, I'm not stupid.... I'm also carrying anti-venom with me just in case I DO find him....

Neil

 

[Adam Block]

dont have to screw people over, lie, manipulate or any of the other things that you have admitted too.

if I had a past like Adam or Neil

Here's what I find odd, I saw your remark as a “quote”, my assumption by that was you were saying something others or at least somebody else felt. I meant my statements as broad and not directed at you, as I didn't know you alone were the one with that view.

This is where it really get odd to me. Your above quotes are indicative of how little you or most of the people on the BOI know me.

The worst thing I've ever done or had posted about me that's for 100% fact on the BOI is that I shipped slow and late. I’m saying 100% fact because I don’t see a need to start another silly thread about the things people think I did.

I have NEVER screwed anybody over!

I have a past of not agreeing with conventional thought. And for this you deduce the above quotes?

Facts:

1) Every customer I sold to in 2002 got something extra!

2) While I couldn't always make people 100% happy I always fixed any issue that came up were I could control the outcome. Even when I owed Bill G. money that I didn’t have I got it taken care of. I have ALWAYS and will always own up to any wrong doing.

3) I have spent more time, effort and money making sure peoples snake purchase was a good one then 90% of breeders. In many cases educating parents on a first snake for their child or just helping local kids find reptiles.

4) Every year I produced animals I posted an ad on KS to give children free snakes to help get them interested when money was an issue. Many times getting in trouble and having my ad pulled.

5) I offer more free information on my site to help people then 75% of breeders.

6) I offered a longer guarantee on the animals I sold THEN ANYBODY IN THE REPTILE BUSINESS! Not because I ripped people off but because I produced great animals.


The people in the BOI think they have a right to know each and every thing about another person’s life. Fact of the matter is that you don't. You don't have a right to know if people have a business partner, where they get their money, who they live with or what their sexual orientation is. If you ask and people don't tell you you assume things, if they tell you something you don't like you say they lie. When the fact is it’s not your business and they have no obligation to tell you. Just because they don’t tell you, or don’t give you the correct information on irrelevant facts by no means makes them a liar!

You can all say what you like, but the above quotes to me are just a tell tale sign of the ignorance I see here each and every day. The assumptions we all make and the unseen damage we’re all responsible for no matter if our intentions are good or not.

Are you taking that personal? If so maybe you want to ask yourself why you're offended by a statement that doesn't include your name. The only reason I can see is you know you act that way and have found yourself guilty, if that’s the case, fix it don’t blame me.

I'm on the BOI because I help people here. You don't like me? Fine, I'm not trying to make friends or win some high school popularity contest. My whole life I've done what I felt was right with or without the support of anybody else.

I’m not going away. You don’t have to think I’m a good guy but I do good here. Unlike most of you I go to the other forums and help people. Ritchie Luna, a man I have little love for also goes to the other forums and helps people, so does Seamus and many of the other people you have issues with. Above all else I respect that fact that they want to help. If you’re not helping you’re hurting and I have no use for you.

As one last note about me, ask yourself something. If I’m such a bad guy, and I’m fine with you thinking anything you want about me. But if I am, why is it that so many of the well respected people in the herp community are friends with me?

Makes some calls, if not to me to some of my friends:

Call Shannon Hiatt, ask him how that $400 pair of snakes I gave him are doing.

Call Ronda Van Winkle, ask her what her thoughts are.

Call Chad Fuchs, ask him why he’s stayed friends with a guy like me since he was 16.

Call Jim Kane, remind him he still owes me that lunch.

Call Walt Deptula, see what he says about me.

Call Kim Caldwell, she in her 50s and very well respect, why be a friend of mine.

Call Rich Cunningham, ask him why he spend so many hours BSing with me.

Call Don Gallagher and see why he’s been a good friend for so long.

What sucks is I bet many of you are friends with or respect those people. See despite this post I really don’t care what people think so as long as your decision is an educated one I’ll accept it.

I just don’t want people putting me in this bad guy group when I’ve never ripped a customer of mine off. I’m one of the few people that will come right out and tell you I got myself in over my head towards the end, I felt that quality was going to slip and I did the responsible thing and stopped producing animals or selling supplies.

I owe Jason S. (Classic Dum’s) a big sorry for not doing what I said I would and I owe Ken a big sorry for acting like a child. There are a few others I owe a sorry to for shipping late but I can’t remember who.

Point is, you don’t know me.

 

[Dragondad]

Amazing

I have been leaving this alone, some do to being out of town and not turning on the laptop, but mostly am amazed that after all of this people cant just leave it alone.

As Cheri stated she has has personal experience with Neil, Rozann has had personal experience with Neil. Those opinions mean more to me than anyone who hears of something that he did to someone elses cousins. There is a reason the courts dont like hearsay and that is it isnt first hand.

To paraphrase John Apple and to quote someone who I believe of a little higher authority "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" now it may not be that you have done something to a customer, but everyone of us hasnt been perfect in life. What we choose to do with that experience is what makes us better or worse as the case may be. Neil has stated he made mistakes, he has made good on the deal at least to Rozann. To me he is making the steps or leaps to show he has changed. How far he goes and what happens is up to him but I feel we should see how he does before we get ready to throw away the key.

Tom I would put my faith in my personal experience with Neil, over your info from a friend who you respect. He has made good by my and I havent seen any bad deals come up so guess maybe he is changing. And if I choose to disagree with those who continue to ride him but have never done business with him I feel I have a reason to do so. Unlike a lot of you I have dealt with him and at this point can say I am happy with the way it has ended. Tough road to get here but well worth the trip.

 

[WebSlave]

I would like to remind everyone to take a look at the topic line of this thread. Unless you have something directly related to the two names mentioned in that topic line, please post it somewhere else where it may be more relevant.

Thanks.

 

[karl ramsdell]

Neil

when i first started reading the BOI a while ago i was reading just for entertainment value. i was really new with the reptile thing and i can remember reading Neil's posts, they really stood out from the rest and i always thought i would like to meet a character like him. i thought he would be a nice person as well as a honest person to do business with, and i was right. me and neil email each other all the time and i consider him a good friend now. since im new i always have questions and he always is there to help me out even if im not buying anything from him. this is the type of person that i like to spend my money with. i think neil brings something special to the BOI. i missed reading his posts while he was away. karl ramsdell

 

[Adam Block]

Webslave, I gave that some hard thought, tell me if I'm incorrect but.

I was posted on topic relating to this thread and a quote in it about the person in the topic line.

They posted and made comments about me.

Seemed very silly to start a new thread about me and that person, seemed really out of place to put it in a thread where that person isn't mentioned and wouldn't look.

I could be wrong, if so please tell me where I should have put it but I felt the best spot to respond to a post in this thread was in fact still in this thread even if mildly off topic for a post or two.

Sometimes that comes up and my feeling is that the threads have to go with the flow. There are few threads that can ave 20-50 posting in them and not have or include comments about some of the people posting.

 

[Python Dreams]

Webslave,
I apologize if I have posted in this thread that was out of line... I told my viewpoint originally and have only defended against personal statements in my direction.
DragonDad,
If you read my post the only reason that what I heard was brought up was to show that in private my conversations are just that. I wasn't asking anyone to listen to that situation and judge from it because I gave no info whatsoever. That doesn't change what I personally know. I also don't think that I am riding Neil just defending my one initial post. And in no way shape or form do I claim to be perfect.
Adam,
You are one strange guy. If your referring to me as "they" you will see that the only reason we're even mentioned in the same post is because you had a problem with "history repeats itself" and began to tell me my way of thinking is foolish and so on... I'm not sure what the worst thing you've done or posted, but I know you have been banned from this site and at least one other... You claim that you have changed while being caught in lies and basically staging a big fiasco that has to take place if you will ever post the truth about a personal attack you started on a well respected business.... You send out naked pics of your wife... I also really don't care to know about your life, nor have I ever asked any personal information of you... You also claim that I have issues with Rithcie, Seamus, and some other people? I was not aware of this..... Maybe they have a problem with me, but I doubt it... I bet it is more along the lines of misinformation you like to let out.... Maybe you are not referring to me, but that post starts out with quotes from my post and you use the word you in your post...
I will not post anymore off topic posts in this thread, so don't think I'm ignoring you if I don't respond to any statements made in my direction.. Sorry Webslave and the best of luck to everybody in positive business dealings!
Thanks,
Tom Baker

 

[Adam Block]

Tom you seem to be taking a lot of my statements to heart when they aren't directed at you so I'm sorry if there's a misunderstanding.

and began to tell me my way of thinking is foolish and so on...

I wasn't attacking you. If you think the above is so whole heartly true then yes but I assumed you meant it as a guideline so my attack was more at the statement then you. Sorry if I didn't get that accross well.

You claim that you have changed

LOL, Well I'm still a prick, not liked by most, rude and just all together very to the point. Never really claimed to "change", sorry if people thought that meant I was going to be all friendly and kind while they attack me. I basicly meant I grew up and no longer thought I could outwit everybody in here. You know, like I did away with my big ego and learned a lession.

basically staging a big fiasco that has to take place if you will ever post the truth about a personal attack you started on a well respected business

Yeah I'll agree, NERD saying yes let's rehash this old worn out drama that none of the people involved care about anymore is a pretty big "fiasco", I mean, that's almost insane.

How silly for me to have enough respect for the other party to say I want him to give his input on this issue being brough up again. See it how you will, I'm not saying a word about it without Kevin saying he want's to deal with it to. He has more to loose then me, it's a respect issue Tom, not really fair for me to open my mouth if he'd rather leave things like they are.

Tom, you're making assumptions! You don't know me, don't say things about me, I'm only pointing out that people who assume as much as you should keep your mouth shut if you don't know anything first hand.

Parrots hear something and then say what they hear. Don't be a parrot Tom.