Debra Dillon of Camlon Reptiles (Bad Guy)

[jason@beardeddragons]

I tried to purchase a female translucent bearded dragon from Debra Monday June 11, 2007. Debra told me that the dragon was mine and we started working out payment and shipping arrangements. The complete email trail is below. I asked a simple question about her proposed shipping charges of $75 for both delta dash and fedex. That is when she said and I quote
"I don't appreciate you telling me that I'm overcharging shipping and as far as I'm concerned you don't have to bother calling for the Bearded Dragon I'll be happy to sell her to another customer."

That is when I emailed back appologizing if I had in some way offended her, I feel like I was asking a simple question. She won't email back anything other than "I sent this to you yesterday, so here it is again."

In my oppinion that is the worst customer service I have ever encountered in my 6 years of breeding bearded dragons and in the reptile industry. She won't take my money and send the offered animals because I said
"If both fedex and delta dash are the same price I will use delta dash as it is much quicker. However I live in Washington state and our Fedex overnight rates should only be $40-$50, if you can charge me actual shipping costs for fedex I will go that route. Thank you very much Debra and have a great day!"

She wont' answer my phone calls and continues to repost her add to sell the animals on kingnake.com. In my oppinion Debra should get off her high horse and thicken her skin. If you get offended by a customer asking if shipping may be cheaper because we live close together you are in the wrong industry. Besides she does not say she reserves the right to refuse service to anyone and therefore is discriminating against me for no good reason. I hope Debra thinks that her foolish power play was worth it. As now I have shined light on her business practices.

I suggest you stay away from Debra Dillon and don't do business with her or anyone else who doesn't know the meaning of the word customer service.



________________________________________________________________

Jason,

I sent this to you yesterday, so here it is again.

Regards,

Debra
Camlon Reptiles

---- Camlon Reptiles <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Jason,
>
> To ship Fed Ex as a known reptile shipper it costs me between $80 to $135 per shipment. Maybe if you ship and the box isn't marked then it may be $40 or $50 dollars, but I ship signature required Priority Overnight. I don't appreciate you telling me that I'm overcharging shipping and as far as I'm concerned you don't have to bother calling for the Bearded Dragon I'll be happy to sell her to another customer.> > Regards,
>
> Debra Dillon
> Camlon Reptiles>
> ---- jason <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Debra,
> > I will take the female transluscent, I will call with my cc after 5 pm or you can call me when you are available. I would like to ship next Monday June 18, 2007. If both fedex and delta dash are the same price I will use delta dash as it is much quicker. However I live in Washington state and our Fedex overnight rates should only be $40-$50, if you can charge me actual shipping costs for fedex I will go that route. Thank you very much Debra and have a great day! We will work out the details this afternoon on the phone.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jason Couch
> > 509-985-6510> >
> >
> >
> > > -------Original Message-------
> > > From: Camlon Reptiles <[email protected]>
> > > Subject: Re: Message about: 2006 1.1 Translucent Dragons Den Beardeds
> > > Sent: 12 Jun '07 08:07
> > >
> > > Jason,
> > >
> > > We accept Master Card, Visa, USPS Money orders and personal checks must clear our bank prior to shipping. CC we accept by phone and I won't be available by phone until after 5PM PST this evening. Other payments can be sent to the following:
> > >
> > > Camlon Reptiles
> > > 19510 Van Burne Blvd, F-3
> > > PMB 187
> > > Riverside, CA 92508
> > >
> > > We ship by Fed Ex, signature required or Delta Dash. The cost is $75 either method. After payment is received you need to let me know what day you want them shipped.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Debra Dillon
> > > Camlon Reptiles> > >
> > >
> > > ---- jason <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I will take the female. How do you want payment? Please call me asap. Thank you and have a great day!
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Jason Couch
> > > > 509-985-6510> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -------Original Message-------
> > > > > From: Camlon Reptiles <[email protected]>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Message about: 2006 1.1 Translucent Dragons Den Beardeds
> > > > > Sent: 11 Jun '07 11:51
> > > > >
> > > > > They are now on the ad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Debra
> > > > > Camlon Reptiles
> > > > >
> > > > > 951-789-2261> > > > >
> > > > > ---- jason <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Debra,
> > > > > > I don't see any pics in the add, please email them. Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jason Couch> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -------Original Message-------
> > > > > > > From: Camlon Reptiles <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Message about: 2006 1.1 Translucent Dragons Den Beardeds
> > > > > > > Sent: 11 Jun '07 07:30
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pictures are with the ad unless there's something else you want? Weights and lengths are as follows:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Female, 202 grams and 17 inches
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Male, 162 grams and 15 inches
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regrads,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Debra
> > > > > > > Camlon Reptiles> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---- <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *************
> > > > > > > > NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds. If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to [email protected].
> > > > > > > > NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
> > > > > > > > *************
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pics, length, and weight would be helpful in making my decision. Please send info as soon as possible. Thank you very much and have a great day!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jason Couch
> > > > > > > > 509-985-6510
> > > > > > > > [email protected]
> > > > > > > > http://www.beardeddragons.biz> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
> > > > > > > > location window) the URL below to view the ad that
> > > > > > > > this message is in response to.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=504451&cat=51
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
> > > > > > > > This person may or may not be who they say they are.
> > > > > > > > The return address they provide may or may not be their correct address.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent 10:01 AM, Jun 11th, 2007 from I.P. Address 68.118.210.184
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

 

[jason@beardeddragons]

by the way my name is Jason Couch

 

[KelliH]

Jason,

First of all I have done business with Debra from Camlon Reptiles and she was nothing short of professional to deal with. In fact, she went way above and beyond what I would consider "standard" customer service during our transaction. Secondly, I ship Federal Express Priority Overnight quite often ( several shipments each week), and the shipping charges are rarely less than $55, and that is when shipping one leopard gecko in a 7 x 6 x 6 box. When we have larger shipments that require larger boxes and have more weight, the cost is way more than that, usually around $75. Perhaps the animal in question is a larger animal that requires a larger box, maybe Camlon prefers to use larger boxes on all their shipments, it really doesn't matter. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that $75 quote for Fed Ex was just about right though, especially if the box was one of the larger ones.

The fact of the matter is, Debra did not steal your money, Debra did not send you a sick animal, Debra did not lie to you. Debra simply decided she would rather not do business with you, and she has the right to make that choice, just as you do Jason. But to post this on the BOI was, in my opinion, a bit of an overreaction.

 

[Jim O]

The fact of the matter is, Debra did not steal your money, Debra did not send you a sick animal, Debra did not lie to you. Debra simply decided she would rather not do business with you, and she has the right to make that choice, just as you do Jason. But to post this on the BOI was, in my opinion, a bit of an overreaction.

I agree. She may have overreacted a bit and so did you (more than a bit). This is an example of a minor dispute in a transaction that never happened. It's not as though she was even rude to you. She just chose not to do business.

The only one I might not do business with on the basis of this thread is you Jason.

 

[Clay Davenport]

Besides she does not say she reserves the right to refuse service to anyone and therefore is discriminating against me for no good reason.

She has no legal obligation to sell anything to you or anyone else, and contrary to what you apparently believe, the formal statement is not required in order to refuse service. A right is just that, a right, and it exists without declaration.
A private business owner can choose who they do and do not do business with and as long as the basis of that decision is not race, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or other government protected class, it is not discrimination.
You do not have any legally protected entitlement to be served in any private business. Perhaps your comments were taken too seriously by Debra, but that's irrelevant. She doesn't have to sell you anything just because you offered to buy it.
I'm actually surprised that someone would think that they are automatically entitled service regardless of the circumstances.

The fact is, no harm was done in this attempted transaction, other than to your ego. The transaction never took place. Coming here to whine that someone wouldn't sell you something is fairly pathetic in my opinion.
I've refused to sell animals to people myself, for various reasons, and no doubt will again in the future. That does not make me a crook or a bad business person, just selective on who I want as a customer and where my animals go.

 

[ravensgait]

I agree with Kelli and JimO, you didn't get ripped off and I think she told you rather kindly to Take a Hike. We've seen threads here about poor customer service and even one or two where no money changed hands but if I remember correctly the seller was an ass and even went so far as to come here and prove they were an ass. I don't see this here.

Sure I know it gets under your skin and I expect good customer service just the same as most here do. This could have been handled better by both sides but it doesn't seem worthy of a BOI thread. Randy

 

[kmurphy]

but if I remember correctly the seller was an ass and even went so far as to come here and prove they were an ass. I don't see this here.

It's only 6:49 am. Give it time. I agree they both overreacted a bit. I don't think this was worthy of a BOI thread as it is a transaction that just didn't work out. The OP definitely insinuated that the shipping charges were overstated. Basically it comes down to, if you don't like the charges, don't buy the product.

 

[Griz]

What a waste of a BOI thread.

Griz

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Like others have said, This is Not cause for a BOI thread.

Now, on a side note.

EVERYONE TAKE THIS AS A CLEAR EXAMPLE. IF a seller will NOT provide you with SIMPLE things such as pictures when you ask, or ANY other type of info, it is in YOUR best interest to avoid the sale and find another person to purchase from.

Making a thread like this will guarantee that you will NOT get the animals, you might have gotten if you straightened things out through email, and accepted those peoples prices. 75.00 for shipping for a 15 and 16 inch dragon sounds pretty darn fair. they cant curve around inside a deli cup like a snake you need to remember.

 

[jglass38]

Not worthy of a BOI thread at all but the seller was the first to overreact. She could have answered the question by politely telling the buyer that those are her shipping charges and she can't go any lower on them. Then it would have been up to the buyer to decide whether or not he wanted to pay those prices. If a buyer can't ask questions without a seller reacting as if they had been attacked, I see that as an issue.

 

[jason@beardeddragons]

I agree with many of the points you all make. I left out the fact that I called and emailed her 4-5 times over 2 days with no reply, she never specifially said she was refusing to sell to me only that I need not call to get the dragon. I was very nice about questioning her shipping charges. She had no reason to refuse service, which you are correct she does have the right to do.

BUT, I have the right to post all of what she said on the BIO and give my oppion. She had terrible customer service with me on that day and every day since. I see that Debra has some of the best Snakes (at least from what I can tell, I know nothing about snakes :=) ). That is why I tried to buy from her, to my suppires she was up on a soap box and HER EGO IS WHAT STARTED THIS.

I expect that her customers who like her service can and SHOULD deffend her, I in no way expected to have much of an effect on her business, just to shed light into her very rudely telling me to take a hike. I did nothing that warrents her reaction.

Her right to charge whatever she wants is fine with my however she should be ready to defend her actions. As soon as I posted this thread I emailed her a link so she could deffend herself. I hope she does so.

In reference to those blaming me for this or saying they won't do business with me, that is warrentless and without cause. I have 100s of recommendations on my site of happy customers, and I have never refused service to anyone period. Even rude people who chew me out, which I did not do to Debra.

After the email posted in the origional post I called her and politely oppologized if some how I offended her with a simple question and asked her to call me. I got no response for 2 days. If you like this kind of customer service then deal with Debra, if not then don't, I am simply stating the facts...(well and my oppinion about my limited one time dealings with Debra)

 

[jason@beardeddragons]

thank you very mch Jglass38, very good point. That is all I am saying, noting more thanks for summing up my complaint

 

[jason@beardeddragons]

also, after questioning her shipping charges I quickly said "

Debra,
No need to get defensive. I will take her and pay the $75 shipping, sorry for asking about the shipping costs, I never thought you would be offended. I tried to call you at 5:38pm and got no answer, please call me at your soonest convience. Thank you and have a great day!

Regards,

Jason Couch
509-985-6510
[email protected]

It is not as if I refused to pay the $75, I gladly accepted her shipping charges with just the one question. She refused to sell the animals because she was on a power trip. I had a very well know friend in the reptile industry try to call and talk some sense in her, however it did no good. I emailed the above email to appologize and also left a voice mail appologizing for accidentally offending her. She has the thinnest skin of any business owner I have ever met period. If dollars from a polite question asking customer aren't good with her she has no place in the industry in my oppinion.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Having dealt with the public for a while now, and having had my share of "difficult" buyers, I would think that we should wait until we hear Debra side of this before passing judgment. This wouldn't be the first time that someone left out an e-mail or a phone call or two in order to make their side of the story sound more solid.

 

[Jim O]

I left out the fact that I called and emailed her 4-5 times over 2 days with no reply...She had terrible customer service with me on that day and every day since.

Jason,

First, sometimes someone cannot get to their email for a couple of days. What if a baby is sick and lands in a hospital?

Second, and more to the point, your original email was sent on 6/11 and you two exchanged several emails over 6/11-6/12. It seems that she was quite responsive to your questions at first. Seeing as you posted the thread less than 48 hours after her second to last email (you didn't post the time of the last one) it seems that you have exaggerated a bit.

As for her charges, well no, she does not have to "be ready to defend her actions". When I order from a company online I don't insist that they "be ready to defend her actions". Why should she? She told you the price. You could have made a lower offer on the animals to offset the perception that the charge was too high, or made an offer for "$XXX.yy shipped". That's standard negotiation. But accusing her of ripping you off on shipping, which is essentially what you did (in perhaps somewhat nicer words), did not sit well with her. Did she overreact to your comments? Yes, a bit. Did you overreact by bringing it here and calling her a "Bad Guy"? Most certainly.

 

[Gecko_Den]

She has the thinnest skin of any business owner I have ever met period.

Jason, I don't want to take sides here but you could replace the words "business owner" with "potential buyer" and one might think that you were describing yourself.

 

[jason@beardeddragons]

great point however I have disclosed everything and even emailed her to give her a chance to say her side. Still no response...thank you for being neutral and unbiased. and yes I could use some thicker skin on this issue. She really rubbed me the wrong way here and I want others to see her business practices. By the way I have been selling reptiles for 6 years now and do have some experience in which to judge the situation.

 

[Camlon Reptiles]

Jason and The Bearded Dragon...

Attached find a copy of our Fed Ex charges from this year and as you can see we pay more than the $75 that I quoted Jason. We try to find a price just below the cost of what it runs to help defray some of the expense to the customer.

We appreciate all of our customers and appreciate the support of all the people who responded to this post. Camlon Reptiles has been in business since 1999 and we have always provided the best customer service possible and will continue to do so.

Regards,

Debra Dillon
Diana McCambridge

Camlon Reptiles

 

[BryonsBoas]

We've done 2 deals with Camlon and both were awesome. One of which Debrah met us half way when we bought some display cases from them. Super nice folks and can't say anything bad about the service we recieved.

Could be they get nagged to death in e-mails about shipping charges and you happened to question them on a day they were up to their eyeballs in questions and they responded the way they did. Not seeing it as over harsh as much as " done " with getting nagged over shipping charges. I've bought from other breeders and shipping was flat rated based on Delta charges regardless if you chose Fed Ex or UPS. That was when you could still get a decent sized box for $45 overnight.

Some folks just don't put the 2 ( higher gas prices ) + 2 ( increase in shipping fees due to higher gas prices ) together and get 3 instead of 4. Fed Ex more times than not will bill for the weight that the box is RATED to hold , not actual weight. Hence the higher charges.

I agree that this thread is a waste of time since you really pointed out nothing BOI worthy. You can hop on a soapbox all you want but if you really look at this thread its about nothing of importance. At the very most you came to the BOI because Camlon possibly had a bad day.

 

[lizardsister2]

I don't know if I can entirely agree with all of you. I mean I certainly agree that it may be blowing the situation out of proportion to have this on a BOI thread where you expect to hear about broken lamps, dead animals, or stolen money. However, I think Jason has a valid point even if he did exaggerate it a bit. It's true that a seller has a right not to do business at any point. However, having a right to do something doesn't make it good business practice. I've had people tell me that the animal in question was mine and then while we're arranging shipping they sell it to someone else who can pick it up. Well that's easier and that's they're right. But at this point I may have gone to some trouble to make the money available and have a day off to receive the shipment during the week so it's certainly inconsiderate of a customer they've made an agreement with and it's not a good way to make a good reputation.

Even if the shipping costs are totally valid as they seem to be any seller should expect some questions about breaking down their costs to reflect where they're coming from. Jason did not ask in a rude way. He simply didn't understand why it would cost that much. I have certainly asked sellers why a charge was particularly high if I thought it was and if they had a good reason (ie really packing an animal well) there was never a problem. Every buyer has a right to ask exactly what it is they're paying for as long as they do it in a courteous manner and if you as a seller aren't willing to explain that to them you don't really have any business being a seller.