• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Dishonest guy Jon Boone (User name Geitje)

In Canada we say aboot.
If it's cool ill post tomorrow. It will just show more of how Jon works people in his run around game. Even after a refund is asked for (seems like many ask for this) he has excuses and still says he will supply animals he has no intention of supplying.
Only reason I even ask if I can post these is because I do a lot of imports into Canada from the states and offered a friend some help trying to get her animals she paid for/ put money down on two years ago.
 
In Canada we say aboot.
If it's cool ill post tomorrow. It will just show more of how Jon works people in his run around game. Even after a refund is asked for (seems like many ask for this) he has excuses and still says he will supply animals he has no intention of supplying.
Only reason I even ask if I can post these is because I do a lot of imports into Canada from the states and offered a friend some help trying to get her animals she paid for/ put money down on two years ago.


I think it's your duty, to help inform on the BOI, if you can.

I would love hearing more about a seller. New Year, new purchases, and all that.
 
So if I had emails in regards to a transaction that was between Jon and someone else (that is was brought into) would I be able to share these?
I would just like to shed some more light onto Jon's "character".

Warning: Please note that any statements made must have a real name associated with them. Not just "handles", nicknames, or email addresses. Anonymous statements are actively discouraged here. So if you quote emails, it must be CLEAR who is making those statements.
 
Warning: Please note that any statements made must have a real name associated with them. Not just "handles", nicknames, or email addresses. Anonymous statements are actively discouraged here. So if you quote emails, it must be CLEAR who is making those statements.

If I post anything it will be the actual correspondence between Jon and my friend. Nothing will be posted that I will not be suppling proof of.
I am waiting for the ok from my friend to post all the info.
 
________________________________________
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Delivery date?
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:53:36 -0600

Hello! That will be great, thanks! Hope you have a good time in Hamm,I'm very jealous.
Here's my info, if I'm missing anything let me know!

Jessica Thornton
4908 22 st sw
Calgary, AB, CA
-
403-818-1728

Cheers, Jess
________________________________________

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Delivery date?
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 21:49:48 -0500

Ps. Please resend me all of your contact information, including a physical address to where the shipment is to go, contact phone number, your full name, etc. I want to also prepare things with USFWS. This whole process hinges on the approval and process of:
1. First the CITES II permits are issued by the CITES Mgmt authority and permits must be purchased and approved by them which can take up to 3 months on average to complete.
2. The permits must be sent to the USFWS for approval with them. If they find a problem (example: what happened with the P. klemmeri for the other Canadian guys who bailed), it will take longer with them and might need to be re-submitted to the CITES II issuing authorities.
3. The permits “should” be faxed, emailed or otherwise sent to you to enable you to get a basic pre-approval with authorities on your end, so that you know that the papers accompanying the shipment are adequate and will not cause you or the animals any problems.
4. I then must strictly adhere to IATA shipping regulations which are much more strict for CITES animals, than for non-CITES animals.
5. I book the shipment with the airlines and away they go!



From: jessica thornton [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 2:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Delivery date?

Hello Mr.Boone!!
Checking to see if you have a delivery date set up yet. My tanks are lonely! Cheers,
Jess



________________________________________
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: phelsumas to Canada
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 14:51:51 -0600
Hello Jon!

Hope everything is going good down there, sounds like you guys are having some crazy weather!
I wanted to see if you've managed to get the CITES permits yet, if you no longer want to go through all the hassle I would be happy with a refund minus however much you have already spent on permits and labour costs of cource. Let me know what works, cheers!
-Jess


a>


I have more that I will post as soon as I find it.
 
From: Jessica Thornton <[email protected]>
Date: December 9, 2013 at 12:57:34 PM MST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Jon Boone
Hi Jim,

So this will be extra fun since we communicated a fair bit via Facebook messaging, I tried to copy/paste it, not sure if screen shots would work better? I'll be sending the emails/paypal as well. As I said..there's a lot! Best of luck!

Cheers,
Jess







September 11, 2009
• [ ]

11:57am
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Ooh! Dont get me started!!! Then I might actually try and sell the monkeyboots =D. Still really hoping for some ornata's, inexpectata or cepediana. I'm probably going to try and get some grandis and laticauda to get more people interested in them, since those are the ones they usually start with, and if you have some maybe some crimson's for me? Of cource there's still about 6 other species I would love so I guess I'll wait and see what you have? Anything like guimbeaui or pasteuri. Thanks a bunch!
• September 24, 2009
• [ ]

12:46pm
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Yo
Not sure what's going on with this retarded chat function, but I tried it and it's locking up on me. did you get my lines I typed? Probably not. Anyhoo - I got more paypalage from you and just read your bankruptcy statement - that's sad and funny. I hope you're doing OK. If you end up needing a job someplace warm, let me know;-) Otherwise, your Phelsuma credit is stacking up rather nicely. Keep me posted with a list of things you are going to want, once the dust settles.
Keep you head up and focused on what matters most.
Take care Jon
• [ ]

12:52pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Lol if it actually makes any sense we'll be doing much better! Interest alone was killing us. And besides geckos I own nothing of value, so I'm really not losing anything! Ooh, dont tempt me with warmth! Although we did have 32 degrees yesterday, but thats freaky for Calgary. Hehe, send me EVERYTHING!!!! Cant wait, my lack of a passport is the only thing keeping me from robbing you blind, if you think thats a joke check out my ancestors! ;) Good ol'scottish/irish thieves, and vietcong on the other side! Hope you're doing good and having fun, cheers!
P.S I just did a presentation on phelsuma a couple nights ago, it went brilliantly and now I'm getting others obsessed. Yay!
• [ ]

1:04pm
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Interest sucks - and I only have a little to pay with my house and virtually nothing else.
You've got a serious streak of meanie in you, eh? That's an interesting concoction of international influence! You sound pretty "dangerous" indeed;-) My ancestors rode around on buffalo and shot thieves like you with buffalo turds. You'd better watch your backside! haha.
That's great about you doing a presentation on Phelsuma. WHere did you do this? Spread the goodness and keep on going! You're making me proud!
Blue skies! (and warmer temps), Jon
• September 25, 2009
• [ ]

10:10am
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
=D I'm going to have a mental image of flying buffalo turds for the rest of the day!!!! :) Mmmm, now I'm thinking of bison, yummy! I did the presentation for the Alberta herp club, brought a few different species out, and basically just told stories and talked a bit about their care. There were a few there who are now trying to rob me;) But since I have severe attachment issues to all of mine, I'm waiting until I get a few from you before sharing. Greedy greedy! So far it looks like I'm going to need a lot of grandis and laticaudas, of cource if there's some crimsons I may have to keep those! Anyway, I basically just want to make them more common, western Canada is in the ice age. I think they're far to hard to get a hold of. It took literally 3 years before I could get one! Anyway, here's to gecko domination!!!!!! Cheers! I just realized how twisted it is to go from poo to food. Yet still, mmmm.
• October 16, 2009
• [ ]

9:55pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
favour?
Hello! As part of my plot to overun Canada with day geckos, I'm writing a series of feature article's in our local herp bulletin. My first is Standings, since for some reason no one has them and most havent heard of them in western Canada. I tried to write an accurate piece, but since I dont have that much experience I was wondering if you could make sure I actually got everything right? LOL you're going to regret being my gecko guru!! If you have any better ideas how to begin or end those are always appreciated as well. I have a nasty tendancy to just stop writing almost mid sentance, nothing ever seem to make a good conlusi.......=D This is a rough copy so I'm sure I need to change a bunch. Sorry, I know I'm a pain in the butt! You're going to have to deduct consulting fees next year! You can always press delete, I'll take the hint if suddenly your email is changed ;) Cheers and hope you have fun.
Standings day gecko (Phelsuma standingi)
Like many day geckos standings are both arboreal and diurnal. They're skin is also delicate and can be easily torn, and lsince they ARE day geckos they are little sun worshippers. But are they really like all the rest, or are they one of a kind? One of the most obvious things that sets them apart is their colouring, while many phelsuma species are mainly green with an assortment of smatterings-usually red, they possess a purple-gray background with a green head and a blue tail, making them unmistakable from many species. Juveniles also have dark bands along their body which eventually fade with age. Standings day geckos reach lengths of 8-10 inches, and on some occasions 12, making them one of the larger day gecko species. Another trait entirely unique to them is their tolerance of ech other, while many day geckos are very territorial and often cannabilistic to their young, standings rarely, if ever fight, and often mate for life. They can be found sharing the same basking and feeding spots without any problems and are also quite tolerant of their young until they reach maturity. This however does not seem to apply to other gecko species, or even other standings outside of their immediate family. To them, just about everything can become a snack, making them my favourite little garbage guts! They eagerly eat everything from crickets to mealworms, waxworms to silkworms. In the wild they sometimes make a snack of small lizards, and some keepers also give them pinkies and roaches. Like other day geckos they do enjoy fruit mixes, personally I use repashy almost exclusively, with occasional well-ripened, misted pieces of fruit. When it comes to care standings are more forgiving then most day geckos, requiring lower humidity and generally being quite hardy. Humidity of around 50-60% seems to work quite well, making 1 or 2 mistings per day in a natural terrarium setup is usually adequate. Since they are from an arid climate too much humidity could actually be a problem. Lighting is quite a topic of debate, some saying full spectrum UVB is neccesary, while a growing number beleive proper calcium& vitamin supplementation combined with halogen/ high intensity lighting actually results in healthier, brighter geckos. Until more experience is gained it is really up to you the keeper to decide what is best for them. Standings need an 18x18x24 enclosure or larger, as long as it's vertically oriented. The exo-terras work well since they hold in the humidity as well as are well ventilated, but a different style of cage works as long as the conditions are kept up to par. They require an ambient temp in the mid eighties, with a basking spot around 92-94. Always make sure to provide some good horizontally oriented basking spots, I've found that bamboo works quite well for this. Sexing mature standings is also relatively simple, since males display both femoral pores and hemipenal bulges. As shown in the photo to the (insert direction here), many males also have yellow colouration in a v shape on their underside behind their back legs. Breeding behaviour usually begins february to april, you can also help stimulate this by 'lengthening' their daylight hours after the winter months. The females will continue to lay clutches until about september or october. They lay 1-2 eggs per clutch, which are often stuck together, but not to anything else. A favourite place seems to be under objects in their enclosure, for example cork bark, or sometimes buried in the substrate. Incubation usually takes anywhere from 55-65 days, and can either be done in situ or in an incubator at 80-84 degrees. It is thought that higher temps produce more females, but this has yet to be completely proven. Fluctuating temperatures, such as those in their enclosure, seem to produce both males and females. The babies usually hatch about 3 inches in length, and can be kept with the parents safely until they near sexual maturity. Captive breeding of day geckos is always very important, right now they are losing an alarming amount of their habitat, something that does not seem to be slowing down anytime soon. Standings in particular are listed as vulnerable,facing a high risk of extinction, thankfully in many countries they are being bred quite successfully in captivity, which may one day be the only place we can see them. Since WC animals also often have mites or parasites or for other reasons do not surviv, captive breeding programs are vital.If you do plan on breeding, make sure to keep accurate records, this way we can hopefully keep better track of our bloodlines and continue to produce beautiful and healthy specimens. While inbreeding may not cause any ill effects in the short term, long term effects can be much harder to combat. If you choose to buy WC, always keep them seperated and in quarentine, and make sure to properly treat for mites, specimens that may have survived are often killed from well-meaning keepers using methods that are too harsh for day geckos or simply not realizing the care that is needed. Hopefully one day these beauties will become more available, but until then, they are truly a delight to observe!
Sorry, I know it's a bit long, I always get a wee bit carried away with day geckers! =P
__________________
• October 17, 2009
• [ ]

9:02am
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
haha. You're a mess! I'll take couple of days to read it over and send back my comments and suggestsions. I leave in less than 2 weeks for Africa and will be gone for a month - up until Thanksgiving time. I'm all about helping you conquer the Canadian land mass with your beloved Phelsuma in hand, so I'll do my best to help steer you in the direction that best befits your goals and mine;-)
Stay out of trouble, OK?;-) (I know, it's no fun that way) Jon
• October 17, 2009
• [ ]

10:51pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
2 weeks hey? Have an extra suitcase I can hide in? =D For a month too, that will be awesome! What part are you going to? Say Madagascar and I am afraid I'll have to kill you for your plane ticket ;) Anyway, thankyou very much, that will be great! No getting into trouble for me here! My fun time is spent reading or misting geckos, woot woot! I'm a CRaZy party animal! Cheers!
• October 19, 2009
• [ ]

7:47am
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Yo,
Here is my initially stab at your article. It may seem that I "slaughtered" it - but in reality these are just suggestions;-) It might also help to organize the article, paragraphically, into sub-topics, as some readers are easily distracted (attention defecit disorder.....) and need help organizing what they're reading.
If I were going to Madagascar, I probably would not be able to tell you.....;-) I'd expect a lot of flak from you for it! I will be in Namibia (primarily), Botswana and extreme northern South Africa. I'll have some stories, you can be assured of that! THis is the area where I have a lot of sketchy encounters with wild mammals.
Like most day geckos, Phelsuma standingii are both arboreal and diurnal. Their skin is delicate and can be easily torn, and since they ARE day geckos they are little sun worshippers. But are they really like all the rest? Or, are they unique and one of a kind? One of the most obvious things that sets them apart is their coloring. While most Phelsuma species are primarily green with an assorted smattering of red and other colors, P. standingii possess a unique purple-gray background, with a green head and a blue tail, distinguishing them from the other Phelsuma species. Juveniles also have dark bands along their body which eventually fade with age. Mature Standing’s day geckos reach a total body and tail length of 8-10 inches, with occasional reports of up to 12 inches, making them one of the largest of all day gecko species. Another unique trait is their social tolerance of each other. Many day geckos are very territorial and often cannibalistic towards their young. However Standing’s rarely if ever fight, and often mate for life. They can be found peacefully sharing the same basking and feeding spots, and are also quite tolerant of their young until they reach maturity. This social phenomenon rarely applies to other gecko species, or even other Standing’s outside of their immediate family. Everything can become a snack for them, making them my favourite little garbage guts! They eagerly eat everything from crickets to mealworms, waxworms to silkworms. In the wild they sometimes make a snack of small lizards, and some keepers have also given them pinkies and roaches. Like other day geckos they do enjoy fruit mixes. I use the commercially available “Repashy diet” almost exclusively; with occasional well-ripened, misted pieces of fruit. The care for Standing’s is less stringent than most day geckos, with less emphasis on humidity and, in general, being quite hardy. Humidity of around 50-60% seems sufficient, with 1 or 2 manual mistings per day in a natural terrarium setup being adequate. Since they are from an arid climate too much humidity could be problematic. Lighting is a debatable topic, with some believing full spectrum UV lighting is necessary, while a growing number believe proper calcium and vitamin supplementation combined with halogen (or high intensity) lighting actually results in healthier, more vibrantly colored geckos. Until more definitive data is gained, it is up to the keeper to decide what is best for their animals. Standing’s need an enclosure with the minimum dimensions of 18 inch x 18 inch x 24 inch, with an emphasis on being vertically oriented. The commercially offered “Exo-terras” work well since they hold in the humidity, yet are well ventilated. Other styles of cage work, providing these conditions are kept up to par. They require an ambient daytime temperature in the middle 80’s, with a basking spot around 92-94. Always make sure to provide some good horizontally oriented basking spots, and I've found that bamboo works quite well. Sexing mature standings is also relatively simple, with males display both femoral pores and hemipenal bulges along the underside the base of the tail. As shown in the photo to the (insert direction here), many males also have yellow colouration in a v-shape on their underside behind their back legs. Breeding behaviours usually begin between February and April, which can be manipulated by 'lengthening' their daylight hours after the winter months. The females will continue to lay clutches until about September or October. They lay 2 eggs (occasionally one) per clutch, which are often stuck together, but not to anything else. Favored egg deposition spots are under objects (ex. cork bark) in their enclosure, in the axis of bamboo poles, and sometimes buried in the substrate. Incubation can be achieved in an incubator or “in-situ” (in-situation) at 80-84 degrees, and usually lasts from 55-65 days. It is thought that higher temps produce more males, but this has yet to be proven definitely. Fluctuating the incubation temperatures seem to produce both males and females. (Note: in my experience, clutches incubated in-situ frequently result in one male and one female being born; although this frequently happens with artificially incubated eggs as well). Newborn Standing’s usually measure about 3 inches in total length, and can be reared separately or kept with the parents safely until they near sexual maturity. Captive breeding of all day geckos species is very important, as nearly all species are losing an alarming amount of their habitat, a fact that does not seem to be slowing. Standing’s, in particular, are listed as “vulnerable”, meaning that they are facing a high risk of extinction. Fortunately, in many countries they are being captive-bred quite successfully, which may be the only place we can see them in the future. Since wild-caught animals frequently have mites or parasites (or, for other reasons do not survive), captive-breeding programs are vital to the survival of this species. If you do plan on breeding Standing’s day geckos, make sure to keep accurate records, this way we can keep better track of our bloodlines and continue to produce beautiful and healthy specimens. While inbreeding may not cause any ill effects in the short term, long term effects can be much harder to project and eventually combat. If you choose to buy a wild-caught specimen, always keep them separated and quarantined to insure they have been properly treated for mites and other parasites. (Note: from about 1998 the only Phelsuma species that have been allowed for export are the common four species: madagascariensis ssp’s [now considered their own species], lineata ssp’s, quadriocellata and laticauda. All other species are protected from any commercial export making the acquisition of new bloodlines from the wild virtually impossible!) Well-meaning keepers often inadvertently kill day geckos using methods that are too harsh, or simply not understand the basic care that is needed. Hopefully, in the future this beautiful species will become more available. Until then, they are truly a delight to observe in our terrariums!
• December 5, 2009
• [ ]

10:20pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
GGA
Helloooo Bushwhacka!! Since I havent harassed you in a couple days I thought I'd start now! I saw your infamous name on a GGA article- any chance you know how or where to get a copy of an older issue? GGA vol 5 issue 1 by Sean Foley. Mwahahahaha...harassing duties done. Hope all is well, are you headed to Hamm? I'm currently in -30 weather with 3-4 foot snowdrifts- even though it only snowed about 5cm, I dont even know how this is possible! I'm going to go to a tanning salon and mug a mexican for their passport. =D
- Going funny from the cold
• December 14, 2009
• [ ]

9:34pm
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Hello and OOPS (I missed your message!!!)! Sorry for overlooking this message. I can probably find you a copy, do you need it pronto as in December 5th pronto?;-)
Nah, I was thinking about Hamm and decided against it. It's too damned cold there anyway - about like your tundra up there.
Hit me up this week and I wanted to discuss with you options for getting some Phelsuma up to you in March/April. Lots to discuss!
Still sporting my tan, Jon
• [ ]

10:05pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
d;fsdplksdolfmKrm,KL:R,WErl,. Sorry I had major finger excitement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oooohhhhhhh, geckos!!! Sorry, I will learn to control myself. Not. =D No worries, I figured you were avoiding me in case this cold is contagious!! Dont blame you, I'd rather be in a mud hut then in a palace with our lovely -43 weather. Brrr! I'm actually typing with only 3 fingers right now, the others were frost bitten off, I'm hoping being around geckos will help them regenerate! There's really no rush on the article, I've been trying to get a hold of it for a couple months, it can wait some more! I've read everything I can find on pietchmanni except for that, which seems to be impossible to get a hold of! Thanks for mentioning your tan, I think the only thing tanned about me is the fried chicken in my belly! =D Cheers!
• December 15, 2009
• [ ]

11:05am
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Me again! Just imagine how much I'd harass you if I DID move south! ;) Mike said since he's not getting his order shipped till spring that we should combine shipments? Not sure if this is a good idea since he's in Ontario, but if you think it is I'm game! If it's going to be a headache though then I dont mind shipping seperately. Cheers!
• January 9, 2010
• [ ]

2:49pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hello! Just wanted to touch base with you, we're in mad chaos up here after the holidays, you must be too hey? Got williamsii as my first hatchlings of the year, still have 8 more eggs waiting! Hope all is well and happy new years!

• March 7, 2010
• [ ]

4:04pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Phelsuma
Hello! Just wondering if we'd be able to set up a shipment sometime soon, hope all is going well, cheers! -Jess
• March 8, 2010
• [ ]

11:17am
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Hi Jessie,
Yes, I am preparing to send up a shipment in the latter part of this month or early April. I will be sending everything up to the Toronto area and then they can be shipped on to you. Let me know. I will be off to Europe in a couple of days and can resume contact once I'm back. Keep in touch with me by email [email protected]
Hope all is well, Jon
• November 9, 2010
• [ ]

2:43pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hello stranger! So it turns out one of my friends -Jim Dyke- was down in Chicago and ended up meeting your buddy Jay Sommers, and is most likely going to be doing an order through him. Would it be possible to perhaps ship together and 'share' CITES? Hope you're doing good, I'm currently stuck in a cold spell but headed for Costa Rica in January. Turns out thats an amazing cure for the winter blues! Cheers! -Jess
• November 12, 2010
• [ ]

12:26pm
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Hey, Keep in touch with me by email ([email protected]) as I get busy and rarely get on here anymore! I'm typically in Africa at this time of the year and pushed my trip out until January, so I'll be around. Drop me an email and let me know what you've got in mind for sharing a shipment.
That's cool about your trip to Costa Rica...I'm needing a trip myself!
Your kid is sure growing up and getting cuter every time!
best, Jon
• February 22, 2012
• [ ]

2:53pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hi Jon,
Emailed you a couple times but didnt hear back from you yet. Are you still planning on sending the geckos? If not a partial refund would be great. Talk to you soon!
Cheers, Jess
• February 23, 2012
• [ ]

10:23am
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Hi Jessica, I've been wondering how you are doing, and if you're still interested in animals and such! Most of the problems with our communication last year was my hectic schedule and permits expiring. It's not a big deal to get new ones, and we would just need to target for example a month or two when we could do the shipment - if only Phelusma. If you're interested in other geckos - i could ship next week (or, at any time)! I've shipped up to Canada a few times last summer/fall, so it's really not a big deal. Again, the only issue is that the CITES II shipments are more expesnive (with insepction cost being higher, additional "careful" handling fees, etc.). However, I can accomodate, so just let me know. Otherwise, how is your little munchkin doing? I used to see your pics on my FB news feed of her and she was always a cutie pie! ;-) Are you keeping other geckos besides Phelsuma now? Jon
• February 23, 2012
• [ ]

7:23pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hey Jon, Great to hear from you! Was worried a lion finally finished you off =D She's doing great, although now she realizes how cute she is and is a menace!! Been busy up here, starting in march I have 7 consecutive herp shows every month till september, 2 of them organized only by myself and 2 others with the board members. Going to be stressful but super psyched after a long boring winter! Been anywhere new and exciting? Unfortunately phelsuma still have my heart, but for time/ simplicity sake would be happy with just a species or two, klemmeri for sure. Let me know what works!!
Cheerios!
• March 10, 2012
• [ ]

2:46pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hey Jon,
Are you going to be at the San Diego show? I have some friends heading down for it, so hopefully the paperwork will be done by then. If you will not be at the show would you be able to mail them to a friend that also lives in the states?
Cheers!
• March 15, 2012
• [ ]

12:34pm
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Hi Jessica,
While I ahve not made concrete plans to attend the San Diego show in June, it still remains a likely chance. Alternatively, I can send the geckos to friends that will be there, or I can send them to another person in the states. I will certainly do whatever it takes to make it much cheaper with respect to the permits and shipping. I'm not exactly sure, but the shipping alone with the permits, inspections, air cargo with airlines, etc. might be well over $500 - even for just a small shipment.
That many shows in your area? Wow! That's more than here in Oklahoma!
So, can you send me a prioritized list of what you're still wanting, and which ones the most?
Best, Jon
• March 15, 2012
• [ ]

8:20pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Awesome! I also ha sme contacts by there that could hand them over to Jim!
Oh dear, so her's the list. Since I'm not likely to be able to get any of these-at least in the near furure- into Canada, 1.1 minimum of each species, If I only get a couple species that's fine!
P.Klemmeri- As many as you can spare! These are a need!!! P.Guimbeaui P.Cepediana P.Rosagularis P.Ornata P.Inexpectata
P.Grandis- This is in case for some reason CITES don't work out on the others, I have ton's of normals so please only blues/ crimson's, any sex, any age.
That's it that's all!!!
Cheerios!
• May 2, 2012
• [ ]

10:44pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hello Jon!
Thought I would make sre we have CITES, my buddy will be headed your way pretty quick here now! Hope all is well,
Cheers, Jess
• May 7, 2012
• [ ]

9:27am
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Hey,
WHere will your friend be, and when? I'm assuming to the Super show in San Diego, or? Do you know how and when they will conduct export from the USA, or to deal with the export at the border when crossing into Canada?
Grandis - I've got some of the blue phase and high reds (that are much nicer than the "crimson") so assume you're interested in them.
P. rosagularis - this species is in trouble not only here (now I only have females), but apparently with all keepers. P. ornata - females only at the moment. P. inexpectata - no surplus currently. P. guimbeaui - I should be able to help. P. cepediana - should be able to help with juveniles at least.
Are you interested in others like P. heilscheri, P. abbotti, robertmertnsi, etc.? Or do you already keep them?
Best, Jon
• [ ]

10:17am
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hey Jon!!
Yes at the super show, not sure where he is going to be coming into Canada from, but he regularily imports reptiles every time he heads down there so he said as long as all the CITES is done he will take care of the rest!
Sure the grandis sound great, I am most definitely interested in the guimbeaui as well as possibly cepediana. Unfortunately not looking into getting any of the others, but I primarily was hoping to get klemmeri, one of my buddies up here is dying to get his hands on klemmeri as well so as many of them as you can spare!!
Cheers, Jess
• May 9, 2012
• [ ]

10:15am
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Well, I'm wondering if there will be any problems with your contact making an export from the USA with the permits issued in my name and to your name, and then handled by a 3rd party? I've never done that....;-)?! You might ask your contact about that.
Otherwise, I will plan on getting guimbeaui, klemmeri and grandis as the main components of your shipment. As I recall, you've sent around $1600US (?) and will get you everything that I can.
How did the show turn out?
Thanks, Jon
• June 15, 2012
• [ ]

6:51pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hey Jon,
Already, so the person getting them to me will be Steve Sykes, and he says he will need the CITES permits to be in Jim Dyke's name or care of J&J reptiles.
Klemmeri and grandis are fantastic, and guimb's would be even better! Let me know if there's anything else I can do on my end.
Show was good, now I just need to get through the show tomorrow! We're doing a show that is specifically just for reptile education, no sales whatsoever, but I'm the that did all the planning, so hopefully things will go smoothly. Hope everything is going good wit you and your family!! You have such a cute boy.
Cheers, Jess
• August 18, 2012
• [ ]

8:48pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hey Jon,
Do you have a hipping date? As col weather is fast appoaching I'm hopin we can get it taken care of ASAP.
Cheers, Jess
• August 21, 2012
• [ ]

10:42am
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Hey!
sorry for the absence of answers lately. The logistics of sending the Phelsuma up to you has not only been difficult, but with a qutie heavy financial burden. The permit is only $100 to USFWS CITES. The export fee with USFWS is ridiculous at $279 (http://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/FeeCalculationChart.pdf). The actual shipping charges are around $250-300. Making the whole shipment at around $600-700 - barring any further obstacles and misc. charges.
HOWEVER, I found another guy in the Toronto area who is wanting Phelsuma and I'm combining your order with his and the permits are in process for his animals (laticauda, v-nigra, comorensis, etc.). I'm having your permits/species transferred into his name and him making the entire import into Toronto. he will then send the animals (probably by post, or other overnight means) directly to you.
I expect teh shipment to probably happen in October, just depending upon how fast the CITES office transfers the old species (yours) and his new species into the new permit.
how is shipping from Toronoto to you in Sept/Oct.?
Best, Jon

http://www.fws.gov/le/pdf/FeeCalculationChart.pdf
www.fws.gov

• August 21, 2012
• [ ]

5:31pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Thats fine, as long as you're sure he'll actually send them to me :) Sweet pic of you in Africa BTW, as aways I am jealous!
• October 12, 2012
• [ ]

3:52pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hi Jon,
Whats the word on the shipment to Toronto? Has he picked it up yet?
• January 4
• [ ]

9:49am
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hi Jon,
My friend is back in the states again, he's actually with Jay Sommers right now. If you can give him something it would be appreciated!
• March 4
• [ ]

3:50pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hello Jon,
I have not heard from you in 6 months again. At this point I've been waiting 4 years and am not hopeful that we're ever going to be able to get them shipped here. My records show I sent you $1650.00, if you could please refund me that amount ASAP that would be greatly appreciated! Hope all is well with you and your geckos!
Cheers, Jessica
• [ ]

3:53pm
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Hi Jessica, well, I'm not currently in a position to where i can refund your money, due to me going thru a divorce with my wife. My finances are scrutinized right now. So, I am sending up some Phelsuma this spring/summer to another guy in Toronto and we had talked about combining your animals with his last fall/winter. So, let's keep that in our sights. Otherwise, sorry for being out of the loop. There has been a lot of changes and really complicated things.
• [ ]

3:55pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Hi Jon,
Not to worry, I'm going through a bit of a hard time right now as wll financially, I just cant keep waiting for years you know! Sorry to hear about that, hopefully things work out well with you. Again, I have friends that regularily export and travel to the states so that's a viable option as well. Best of luck!
Cheers, Jess
• [ ]

4:04pm
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
Well, things are going reasonably well (actually much better) but the issue is that this has been going on now for right at one year and still not finalized. My property (a 5 bedroom house, 4 bathroom) on 10 acres and a 1500 sq. ft. building with 3000 animals is in the middle of the negotation. It's not easy for me to up and move (or sale) my collection, so my wife moved out about 6 months ago. Now, i have to account for every $ and show where it's going. I also have to keep track of the animal stuff, in the event that needs to be negotiated. It's been hectic to think about moving, but now it's settled where I will be in the future (here) - the rest is dividing everything that is left (animals and other assets). So, I was certainly hop-scotchy last year while dealing with this. Anyway, let me know how things work out with yoru friends who regularly export and travel to the USA. The real issue is getting the CITES permits in the name of the person who is doing the export. But, if they can handle it without this, let me know when they're coming down next and I'll send them a shipment of your stuff! Otherwise, I can send it up with the Phelsuma guy in Toronto. Because otherwise the collective shipping charges to you in Calgary is quite steep.
• [ ]

4:07pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Yep divorces suck! Thankfully got mine out of the way a few years ago, hopefully yours ends soon too! He would definitely need CITES, it would still be for Jim Dyke. Do you know when you will be shipping to your guy in Toronto?
• [ ]

4:14pm
Expand
Show Images
Jon Boone
The shipment is scheduled for late spring/early summer - before it gets too hot here. I had talked to him about sending Phelsuma out to you either by post or by air cargo - he said both were options. If I ship to Jim Dyke - where would that be? California? Canada? Or? I would still need his complete address and contact info. If I were to ship to him on US soil, that would save him and you a lot of money. You got a divorce too? Wow!
• [ ]

4:16pm
Expand
Show Images
Jessica Thornton
Ok that will work, if for some reason it fall through with your Toronto fellow then I can get them sent to Jim this summer when he's in the states.
Yes, a few years ago now though, I still say the best part of my marriage was my divorce!
 
Jessica sure is patient. Four years? Crazy.

One of the good guys, my butt. Rule number 1 is to not spend the money before animals are delivered and customer is happy, no?
 
Maybe Mr. Boone would be better off breeding snails since he seems to service his customers at the same pace. Unbelievable......and watch, people are still going to defend this guy.
 
This shows that Jessica asked on more than one occasion to get a refund.
 
I don't care if Mr. Boone parted the red sea and led a group of Iguanas through on a magic carpet......we need LESS people like this in the hobby, not more.
 
The truth is that this kind of thing is typical for this seller. He has had a reputation for this and similar things for 20 years with longtime serious gecko keepers. So many examples.Usually something like this or somebody giving their part of a trade and never getting their stuff. The die hard keepers with experience know this already. It's only the new kids on the block that are not aware. And if you are a buyer that will come back over and over again you won't get screwed(well not for a while) because you are a steady paycheck. But you will eventually. You don't see any longtime customers chiming in with support here.

Intimidation and the threat that you will get nothing if you make a stink is why you never hear of it. The problem is that people comply and still get nothing and they just move on because they are over it.
 
1st of all, you might consider not attacking other people (Matt, Kasi, etc.) that do not pertain to the problem, and should be entitled to expressing their honest opinions - if that's what this site stands for.

And actually, Mr. Court Jester, Wai has 2.0 P. rugosus – so has not been robbed of his money. They hold value, just like any other P. rugosus. What Wai does not have is 2 P. rugosus of opposite sexes, so if plans are intact to get a couple of groups from other outside source to satisfy the obligation with Wai, then efforts are being made. Referring back to an earlier post of mine – my original idea was to get the animals in and then just send the female when ready. If I need to satisfy a customer with a daily dialogue of “where the deal stands today” I will not have an answer until the shippable product is in my hands and ready to ship. So that means “I still do not have the female P. rugosus ready”. So, yes, simply put – it is possible to send out a pair of Paroedura to someone at some point last week and not have the P. rugosus ready to ship, nor a complete and purely honest answer of when it would be ready.

No, I do not trust Wai to comfortably send the animals back alive and well at this time of the year. Currently, I might also have reason to have concern over the health of the animals, and if they are “shippable”. Industry standards would be for the customer to get what they’ve ordered, and if not, refund issued after product returned.

Your and Wai’s personal knowledge and experience might not encompass a qualified opinion on knowing the sexes of P. rugosus at the time of shipment. I’ve produced between 125 and 150 of them over the past 11 years and some young animals with varying degrees of hemi-penal bulges can indeed be females. Mistakes happen daily with animals – they die for no reason, improperly sexed, etc. Let’s return to the real topic.

I’m not sure what your personal position/investment in this thread really equates to other than combative and straying from the topic of resolution. Yourself and others who have nothing better to do than misunderstand parts of the discussion and feverishly dissect words (ex. “gypsy”) under your personalized electron microscope serves no other purpose than to make you look like your trying to uproot some imagined terrorist from the “fertile Utopian reptile hobby” of your imagination. Either put forth some constructive and kind suggestions of help, or perhaps step away from the keyboard and find a better way to spend time – that’s what I do.

The bottom line is Wai has 2 P. rugosus that he paid for and they just happen to be the wrong sex. These 2 animals hold market value (around $400-450 each), just like any other rare reptile – so he has not been “robbed”. He has an extra “male” as collateral in the event that the deal not be corrected. So, since efforts are being made to either fix the problem, or pursuing the avenue of returning for refund – arguing other points, wording of statements, semantics and the like are what I would consider “off topic” and does nothing but waste time and create drama. Otherwise, why not everyone go spend some time with your animals and family until the resolution is finalized.

And lastly –

<<< "Nobody needs your rendition of what the problem here is or the solution." >>>

I feel like I’m arguing with a “fainting goat that’s chasing its own tail” (sorry in advance to any fainting goats that might be reading) – yes, of course my opinion and contribution to the solution is important.

Okay Jon. You want constructive and kind suggestions? GIVE THESE PEOPLE THEIR MONEY BACK! Yours truly, the court jester.
 
This thread was brought to my attention by someone I guess that was watching this thread or posting on it, but I had a past bad experience with Jon myself and I was eaten alive by the people that posted on my thread. I just want to say, a lot of people constantly claim he is a knowledgeable guy but, "even bank robbers are knowledgeable about the banks before they rob them" so please quit saying that as if that justifies he is a good guy.

Seeing this thread made me feel as if I was not alone finally, so thank you for speaking out and here is the thread I started about him. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276159&highlight=chaz
 
I do find it odd, that in the thread started by Chaz ( http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276159&highlight=chaz), Jon couldn't wait for Chaz to complete a deal, yet he makes people wait for him to make good on his deals . the two examples on this thread are... on,.... 6 months and running and another 4 years!! Maybe Jon should adhere to his own rules and so called code of ethics and practice what he preaches? After all what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

My own experience is a trade that was not fulfilled. I sent a stunning, beautiful, very large male leachianus to Jon, in trade for 2 baby chahoua, from Germany that were supposed to be brought back from the next Hamm show he was going to. I later found out that he actually had just come back with two he could have given me but didn't so i waited... and waited... and waited. It became very clear I was not going to ever get my chahoua. A friend had warned me this would happen and told me to take the money, no trade and get that money before sending the Rhacodactylus leachianus. I gave Jon the benefit of the doubt and it came back to bite me. So as time passed I started asking for the money instead. The dollar amount we agreed upon was $500.00 if i didn't get the chahoua. And that was the deal of the century because that leachianus was worth at least $1000.00. Jon mentions a "brother in law" discount with Chaz? He certainly got that from me. All I got was excuses, didn't have chahoua when he went to Germany, didn't have the money etc. As it came closer to the reptile expo that i promote, Jon knew he would have to see me face to face because I allowed him to put on a gecko symposium that would coincide with my show, I sent him a paypal requests to pay my money owed because he had ignored me asking politely. I believe the only reason he paid is because he had no choice as he would be forced to see me in person.
Here is the emails:
-----------------------------------------------
R. leachianus
Inbox
x


Ramy
10/11/08

to Jon, Btm
This is an ugly and decrepit, old and half way dieing. Let me know if you still want it.

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?u...1&disp=inline&realattid=f_fm71qisl0&safe=1&zw
---------------------------------------------------

Jon & Stacy Boone <[email protected]>
10/13/08

to me
Yeah,

I’ve got to get it from you for a friend of mine overseas. I’m getting some bad ass chahouas from Europe in December. Interested in any new lines?

I’ll buzz you in the next day or two

---------------------------------------------------


From: Ramy ]
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 9:20 PM
To: Jon & Stacy Boone
Subject: R. leachianus


Jon & Stacy Boone <[email protected]>
10/19/08

to me
Hey,

When you send that leachianus out, please do so to my friend’s house –
Robert East
650 ETC>
Tulsa, OK 74127
(918) 381-ETC>
Please check the waive signature box on the label, as he has an agreement with his postman on what to do!

A huge THANKS for hooking me up with this! I really really appreciate it!

Jon


ONE YEAR LATER


Ramy >
10/8/09

to Jon
Hey Jon,
How are you? I have been super busy with the show and shops. I just wanted to see if you can paypal me the funds for that Leachianus. I could really use that money right now. Thanks Jon.
I will call you in the next day or two.

Thanks again,
Ramy




Jon & Stacy Boone
10/8/09

to me
Hi Ramy,

I’ll do it very soon – just as soon as I get some paypalage in. I’ve got a few people supposed to send me money via paypal and will send it on. There are some guys supposed to cough up some dough for me too in Tinley.

I saw that Jay took you guys to PR. That’s cool and it looks like you all had a great time. Glad to see you finally made it someplace relaxing like that.

Thanks,
Jon


From: Ramy
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 12:36 PM

To: Jon & Stacy Boone
Subject: Re: R. leachianus
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jon was always a guest of another vendor at my show. He never paid for a booth. He was only allowed this and other priviledges, like the symposium,and a place to stay (at my house) because the vendor he was a guest of is a close friend of mine. He is the only vendor i have ever had at my show that i have had people complain about ripping them off. I actually had a man in Japan contact me that saw Jon's name on my vendor list, asking if he could send someone to my show to collect the $3000 USD Jon ripped off from him.
Here is the Email:

Michael Mccavish <[email protected]>
6/21/08

to me
Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by
Michael Mccavish ([email protected]) on Saturday, June 21, 2008 at 12:30:03
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


comments: One of your vendors Mr.Jon Boone cheated me by not sending me 3000 dollars worth of geckos after having received funds from me. I have written him countless e.mails with no reply. The case against him is now being put in the hands of a private debt collecting agency. I would like to give him the opportunity to rectify the situation otherwise I will ask the agency to approach him at your show.
You may pass this on to him OR give me his new e.mail address or phone number.
Many thanks,
best regards,
Michael.
---------------------------------------------------


I have had multiple people complain to me about being conned by Mr. Boone. And I am sure it's mostly because of all these deceptions, and money/animals owed, that he does not attend anymore. Well that and the fact that he has worn out his welcome.
 
I would like to chime in that I have never had a problem dealing with Jon. I have had many dealings with him and they all went fine.
 
I use to do a lot of business with Jon. Thousands of dollars every year, there were small problems along the way, very similar to this situation. I once traded him 2 unsexed Cyrtodactylus elok for 1.1 Paroedura stumpfii. That pair ended up being 2 males. I never received a female! He later told me that when he said "pair" that he meant "two" animals.

I continued to do business with Jon even after several small issues, however after a deal that occurred in early 2011 involving the purchase of some LTC Paroedura gracilis, we had a falling out. Here are the emails regarding that deal:

My emails are in Black, Jon's email are in Red

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Jon,

Have you heard anything from the guy you bought them off? Also who exactly did you buy them off, I didn't catch who exactly you said sold them from our conversation yesterday as I only remember Robert Seipp.

Anyways one of the females dropped her tail last night and I haven't check them since I woke up so hopefully none have died overnight. Anyways I am not happy at all with these animals, and I know you did not produce them, however I feel like you decieved me into buying them.

This is a list of the text messages I recieved in order from first to last (time and date are listed in bold and I underlined the parts that I feel implied that these animals were in good shape/LTC's):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just a quick note- I will have either 3.5 or 4.6 gracilis surplus when I get back. I already got my group and they look very good"---6:27am 3/12/11

"Won't know for sure until I get the final in the shipping but probably around $300/animal. Give me a heads up if potentially interested."--11:41am 3/12/11

"Also might have a few extra lohatsara, androyensis, and ebenavia"-- 11:48 3/12/11

"I'll have more of a chance to better scrutinize all tommorrow, as I begin to prepack, but they look great! They are not cb! But have been captives of a friend for some time. I spent so much on my stuff that I nearly bankrupted on the way out the door?:)---12:03 3/12/11

"I'm paying for the gracilis today and there will be a total extra of 4.6 that are available. If you want them let me know asap as another friend wants them if you do not. Total cost/animal after ship to USA between $320-360/animal. Diplo credit and Cyrto credit will apply. I need atleast 1K as a deposit if you want them as I'm paying cash (euro). You can paypal a deposit to my normnal email (today is possible!!!!) and I'll ship with your others after I get back on Wed! You've got a number of critters here---1:43 3/13/11

"PS let me know by text when you paypal so that I know as I'm not staying ontop of emails as there is too much else to do--1:44 3/13/11

"Give me a call this am so we can work out all shipping and animal details. I just got back and the animals should be cleared around midnight tonight and and therefore shipping tommorrow" ----8:52am 3/16/11
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So based on the highlighted comments from your messages, I was assuming these were gracilis that were from your friend and were nice LTC animals (similar in quality to the male you sent me back in the fall). However I think it is very safe to say the animals I recieved were not at all LTC and were frest imports. I am looking at these things and they look like they just were released from auschwitz. There is like one or two that have a little fat in there tail, however I think they are the exceptions and not the rules---as they are not in great shape either. I can literally count the backbone vertebrea in almost every animal. Add this to the heavy die off of the animals and I am positive these animals were not cared for in any approproiate fashion by your friend. Also I don't know why a "friend" would even try and sell you these things, I know if I shipped you a gecko to send over to Hamm that was even close to how bad of shape these geckos are you would tell me "Hey, these look like shit, and I am not dealing with them"--end of story.

I figure you being one of the most experienced gecko keepers out there could see that these animals are first off not LTC animals (I consider LTC atleast 5-6 months, not 2 weeks as I am sure most people do aslo). Secondly you have had to known that they were at very high risk of dying in transit to the US based on their condition I am assuming they were in in Germany. Thirdly why you would spend so much money on animals that are either about to drop dead or walking a thin line. When gracilis were imported to the US they cost I think around $200 for WC, so when I am paying over $300 an animal I am expecting that animal to be in better shape than fresh WC's. I realize gracilis are rare, and not seen frequently, but that does not mean I am going to be reckless when I see some and just throw down big money to get some shit ones, just to say I got some.

I know you mentioned that spending a week in transport can take its toll, which I am sure it does, however an animal that is in good shape should remain in good shape throughout the shipping process. All the other animals I recieved were in good shape, despite the long journey, why should gracilis be any different? They are no more delicate than P. masobe or the other geckos in the box? The only reason they did not fare well is because they had to have been in horrible shape from the get-go.

I am not trying to be a douche about this, however I feel like I was not treated honestly/fairly in this deal, and I was not given an accurate description based on your text messages as to the REAL health of the animals. I understand you have lost animals as well, but I feel like I put my faith in you to get me these animals and believed that you had the judgement to only buy solid animals. You knew the condition of the animals when you bought them from your friend so I don't think its the same for you to complain about them, as opposed to me, where I was painted a false picture of what I was really getting myself into. I know you can say I only have 1K in cash invested in them, and that the animals I sent you payed for the rest, however I think one can try and justify it anyway they want, I see this as I have 3K invested in some dying animals. The geckos I sent you were not free to produce and therefore I do not count them off as not being valuable. I personally would still be quite mad if I only did have the 1K in cash invested in these animals as right now I only have 5 animals (3.2)...whch is still over $200 a piece per animal...and they are all on death's doorstep.

Again I am not trying to attack you persoanlly, as I do value our relationship, however I want to clearly state where I am at in regards to this deal in hopes of eventiually being able to justify this in my head--as right now I am about to lose my mind over this.

Derek

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Derek,

First of all, regardless of your interpretation of my statements that follow let me preface them by saying I was young once and I understand where you’re coming from, so please keep my statements in perspective. I’ve kept geckos longer than you have lived by 10 years. Meaning – I was breeding geckos 10 years before you were a thought in either of your parents mind or nursed from your mother teats. When you question my motives, experience and judgment I find it not only misplaced but no different than my children (who are nearly the same age as you) questioning my experience.

Some facts:
· Sorry, but gracilis are far more sensitive than P. masobe and ANY other wc species. If you do not know this – I will proceed in questioning your experience, intellect and judgment. Gracilis are more rare than other geckos because they’re harder to acclimate and are prone to dying even if looking decent. A current poll on who’s keeping them around the planet should be sufficient proof, even for a moron.
· I do not give out names of customers or suppliers to anyone period (ex. my friend who cared for the Silvio ciliatus) – including you. If you were actually listening to me yesterday on the phone I mentioned being screwed by Seipp more than 10 years ago for PHLLLURUS – which is not the same species as Paroedura gracilis. I was referencing a big financial hit I took with him.
· The geckos looked just fine when I saw them on Saturday and picked them up the following day. Maybe they do not after shipping, but 5-6 days later is not the same as the day that I bought them.
· “Captives for some time” can have various meanings and interpretations. If I was schnookered, and eventually you too, it was what it is – not me “deceiving you into buying them”. Ask yourself what I would gain in doing something stupid like that!?!?!?!
· $200 5 years ago in the USA is a bit different than $325 today being shipped from Germany. They’re more rare and in more demand today than 5 years ago, along with a lot of Malagasy species for obvious reasons.
· You stating I knew they were about to drop over dead, or would not make the journey, but still chose to make the purchase anyway is highly insulting. I chalk it up to your young age and inexperience in properly interfacing with people.
· You make references to how things will fare during international shipments, yet have no experience in doing so whatsoever, other than what your small net experiences are through others who do it for you.
· You sending me Cyrtodactylus that “do cost money to produce” is also insulting. I produce geckos too Derek and have for a few years, and also have an idea of what it “costs to produce one”. OK – how much does it cost to produce a Cyrtodactylus that other people will not buy from you? I can send them all back for credit on things that I would actually prefer more to keep.
· Never state “I do not mean to be a douche, but…” because you’ve already called yourself out on your own behavior before you exhibit it.
· 1K for 5 animals – is not anywhere sufficient any way you slice it. You’re forgetting the cost of shipping of each animal from Hamm, and my shipping to you in TN, plus my work involved.
· Just how many wc gracilis have you seen Derek? How many shipments have you picked through? I’m assuming that you must be mystified into thinking that they should have fat-tails on them like some Eublepharine dream species.

The bottom line is that I have been through what you’re feeling more than a bunch of times Derek and I guess that I might be a bit more seasoned than most in the hobby. But, I think you should strongly consider rethinking your methods in questioning people who have done nothing but help you. You need to keep in mind that I ship, on average, around 175 shipments/year. I have shipped geckos for 30 years. Conservatively, I’ve shipped more than 4000 shipments, hundreds of which were international. I currently have over 2000 geckos from 275 species and have had more than 200 SPECIES for 20 years. I was keeping more than 100 geckos in 1982. Me being one of the “more experienced” gecko keepers around is not very accurate at all. I know of no other humanoid on this planet that has approached anything near what I have done or what I do – and I expect no special recognition for doing it. I am not angry in stating this, as they’re just plain and simple facts. If I drive a silver Honda pilot and state that to someone – that is not me tooting my own horn, rather explaining to someone what I drive – when assuming they apparently cannot figure it out for themselves, so I redirect them to the simple facts.

On my first offers to help you take crested geckos to Hamm – did I charge you? Did I charge you what other people charged you (or what I charge you today?)? Do you think that I’m not aware of this and all of the “why’s”? Have I not offered to help you on every opportunity and even exert flexibility and offer to take replacement animals to Hamm for you for free – when I did not need to? You’ve cost me lots of money prior to today, and you have no idea. Have you wondered why I would help you? Because you were a young kid that needed a break, because I have been there too myself – 30 YEARS AGO! Have you asked yourself, in all honesty, just how experienced are you, how long have you been around to racket up all of your long experience and conclusions, yet still shipped crested geckos to me in wet toilet paper a year or two ago (that’s not very long ago!). And, to only question me by saying “I always ship them that way”. Do you realize that your dead crested geckos earned you a name and reputation that I have tried to defend to people in Germany? Do you know that your dead animals in MY international shipments (twice!!!) that required special permits in Germany (all Rhacodactylus need German customs permits Derek) and only to have the veterinarian inspectors see your dead ciliatus in my box and drag down my name?

I suppose by your own methodology and neural-activity that I too should have told you to kiss my butt when you sent me those “perfect crested geckos” and foreseen that they also were going to die and just told you that you were nothing more than an ignorant wanna-bee and you need to come back and play after you grow up a bit. Using your own judgment methods that you have given me today, tells me that you deserved every bit of the same when you pulled your crested gecko racket on me and your customers – fair is fair, right? I should have been experienced enough to know they also would never make the shipment. Therefore, I see big differences between the two of us. I’ll leave the answer to you.

You’re not trying to attack me? I could have easily done the same with you on previous issues. You have cost me money, money which translates as lost money for a family of myself, a wife and three kids – and the food and shelter necessary to care for them………….as opposed to you who still lives at home, single and no responsibilities. I do not take it lightly when people steal from my family (me personally would be much better for the thief).

I did not even get the money for the shipment to you, Aaron or Andrew.

Wow.

I want you to know that I am not mad at you Derek for what you have said and done here, disappointed - yes. You’re young and I believe you just blew up at me to let some gas off. But, as you paddle through life you’re going to need practice in dealing with issues that are not always just perfect for you (they were not perfect for me either…).

If you expected perfection on an international shipment of Paroedura gracilis that can take a week to get back– it really just shows how inexperienced or unknowledgeable you are in this matter.

Jon


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi Jon,

I want to start off by saying I apologize for offending you in the way you seem to have been, based on your email. I wasn't questioning your years of keeping geckos. I think it’s common knowledge in the gecko world as to what kind of "car" you drive, and what you have accomplished over the many years that you have been keeping and breeding geckos. I look up to you and respect you so much for that; it’s hard to convey through email...and that history of respect makes this conversation even harder for me.

I never have considered myself an expert gecko keeper, or boasted about my breedings to anyone. I believe I have been lucky enough to hatch out a various number of gecko species, however I still question, honestly, in my mind if I am actually the one to take credit for it, or if it is all just luck.....I like to think I play at least a small role, as I do work extremely hard with my animals. I try to provide the best care I can, and I try my best to breed geckos utilizing the knowledge I have garnered form experts such as yourself and others. I read extensively and try very hard to reproduce the environmental milieu of their natural habitat.

If someone else is having better success doing something one way, I will look at what they are doing and try to mimic that. Also I think you and I both know I would not have to opportunity to work with the species I am working with if it wasn't for your help in shipping them, which I do greatly appreciate.

As for me costing you money and maligning your reputation in Europe; if you think I owe you money you need to let me know, I do not want handouts or to be a burden on your family's income. I felt that my monetary debt had been fully, and promptly, paid. This is one of the reasons why I wanted to state my feeling regarding the gracilis now. Just so 6 months from now I don't bring up something that you had no idea was a problem. If I do a favor for someone or help someone, I wouldn't hold that against them and use that against them down the road.

In regard to the dead ciliatus 2 years ago. I believe both of us were just as dumbfounded as to what happened. Shit happens; I totally understand that animals are more likely to die during international shipments than just going from my house to your house. The ciliatus cost me money/headache as well.....I replaced or gave out refunds to everyone who was affected by that. That’s more than what I think most Europeans would do if they were in similar circumstances...I think most would say ‘tough luck’. However I want people to be happy with any gecko they receive from me, and if they are not happy I jump through hoops to try and rectify the situation…even if it means money out of my pocket.

Now back to the gracilis. I think the main issue where we are having disagreement is in the wording/description of the animals. I have attached pictures (from last night), of the LTC male gracilis you sent me in September, a LTC male from Matjaz, and then an animal that was in the box 2 days ago. Based on your messages to me, I was thinking that these were personal animals of a friend of yours who had them in his care for at least a few months.

When I helped you ship the rugosus to Matjaz that one time and they were at my house for a few hours (or even if it was a few days/a week), I would not say "I kept rugosus for some time", as I was merely holding them ‘in transit’, until they went elsewhere.

If you will indulge me in considering a hypothetical situation role reversal, where you were in my shoes, you being the one at home, and I was at a show or at an importer in Miami, let’s say buying some Uroplatus for you. Now if I sent you a message saying these 10 fimbiratus "look great" then you paid for them and I shipped them to you, and you received them and half were dead, and the rest of them have tails that are curled into a shape of a pencil, their eyes are sunken, they are lethargic, and underweight, I would think you would call me up and say "Derek...what the hell man".

Now, I will grant you that I don't have any experience shipping internationally; it is something I want to figure out and try doing myself; however it’s tough to figure out exactly what you need in terms of paperwork to make that happen. However, despite my inexperience with shipping internationally, I do have the knowledge of being able to distinguish a healthy animal from an unhealthy animal. I think there is also a genuine difference between say a crested gecko that appeared to be 100% healthy that drops dead during shipping and a gecko that dies during shipping that is underweight and not in good shape. The crested gecko is dead yes, but you can tell it was cared for. However, if the crested gecko died, and you could see its pelvic girdle and spine sticking out and it just didn't look good, then I think you can assume that that animal had pre-existing problems affecting it on top of the shipping factor.

Now I will agree gracilis are not comparable to a crested gecko in terms of their durability, but I do think the masobe is a fair comparison. Go back 5 years, and everything you say now about gracilis was true for masobe. However, now people are more knowledgeable about proper care and they are more readily available. I think gracilis can be just as easy to keep. The 2 males I have now are in excellent shape and give me no problems, and I would say they are not even that delicate. I will agree that fresh WC gracilis are hard in terms of acclimating them, but no harder than Uroplatus or any other WC animal that arrives in rough shape. However, the reason I have a problem is that I was under the impression that these gracilis you got were not fresh WC, and that they were at least similar in quality to the male you sent me in September. However, based on the picture and the animals you have at your house I think it’s safe to say that these animals sold to us were not long term captive animals. If you had told me in the text messages, "They look a little rough", or something similar in meaning than we would not be having this discussion, unfortunately, however, that’s not what happened.

I am really trying to keep this from degenerating into a ‘personal level’ of disagreement, and try to resolve this in a way that neither of us feels slighted by unkind words. I look forward to your reply, and hope that the dealer in this case, can help us both out.

Derek

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Derek,

I’m not sure what’s going on with the gracilis and the credit that should be extended to me, and partly you. I’m out a lot of animals and some money on this deal, and I’m not sure you’re aware of it or not. I’m also not sure you even care. I’ve asked you on more than one occasion to please keep me updated on the progress with the animals you received and how they fare in the end. I know the last time you had written that you were not sure if another one was going to make it or not. In the end, I realized that the guy asked too much for them, and the animals must have been blown full of electrolytes and water to look good and then only to lose it on the long trip back to the USA. I actually now hate this species!!!

Once we get to the bottom of this, I suppose we can figure out what to do with the C. peguensis. At the moment, whether we both like it or not, you actually owe me money (not that I would probably take it from you anyway).

Also, someone told me you sold all of your Uroplatus? Why? Are you reducing your collection and moving another direction?

Jon


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jon,

You asked me once back in early April on how the animals were doing and I promptly replied that same day....it is I who figured you did not care after that as I never heard a peep from you. I am the one emailing you, so obviously I still care. Out of all the gracilis you sent me I only have 2 pairs that survived and are doing very well right now....believe it or not but they can have quite chunky tails on them when fed. I am sad to hear you do not enjoy them, as I think they right up there with masobe in terms of a cool gecko to keep.

As for me owing you money, I think it shows a lot that you would even bring this up considering the state of the animals you sent me. As I see it, you are the one who would owe me.....considering I only got 2 pairs of gracilis out of an original group of 4.6. Also the animals you sent me were obviously not LTC animals and actually fresh imports, which is not what I was sold and therefore my time in acclimating the animals and the costs I had to pay my vet to run fecal exams I think far outweigh any fine print costs in the shipping you think I owe you.

I just imported 5.5 gracilis (WC) myself last Friday (amongst some other geckos. Including 2.3 WC masobe) from Europe. Every single one of those gracilis is in better shape than the animals I received in March. Even the WC masobe were incredible. Also, I only paid 175 Euro a PAIR for the gracilis!!!

At this point, I am not holding my breath for any credit. I think it’s crazy to think that the dealer you bought them from would even give you any. The animals were bought in person and you accepted them and gave him the money...the deal ended there as far as the dealer was concerned (I can't blame him either). I am just looking at this whole deal as a loss, I guess it was my naive ness to think that you might accept that you made a mistake and offer to make it right.

Derek

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Correspondence pretty much ended after that last email. Nothing further has come from the deal.

Derek Dunlop
 
Derek,

I had no idea you got burned but i am not surprised. It was bound to happen.

You know very well that i have extensive experience with hundreds of species of gecko. I have dealt with gracilis a lot over the last 20 years. I can promise you that your animals were not LTC. This is more likely what happened and completely fits within the M.O. and pattern of the seller in question. He was offered fresh W.C. animals to be picked up in Germany on his next trip. He took you for a sucker. He probably paid about $75.00 U.S.(the usual wholesale price for gracilis) and then told you over $300.00 per pair so he could cash in. He got to Germany and the animals looked like crap but he wasn't about to lose your money so he took them even in their terrible condition. Imported them and shipped to you. He knew you would be upset but didn't care because he already had your money. He then did his typicla promise to make it right in the future.As we all can see that day never comes. Then he proceeded to try to bully and intimidate you. Yes it is absolutely a fact that gracilis is more sensetive than masobe and every other Paroedura but everyone i have ever gotten imported from Madagascar was actually in very good health and i have gotten many.good weight etc. I think we all have a relatively similar understanding of what LTC means. It means healthy and well established.

So as I said earlier there are so many examples of this seller ripping people off. He tries to bully people and he tries to get people black balled from the gecko hobby. And he is usually successful because most don't stand up to him. So as i said before he will screw you if you do business with him long enough. He has screwed over everyone he has ever been friends with in this hobby. He has zero integrity,zero loyalty and zero conscience. You notice NOTHING is ever his fault! Ever! always deflection,passing off the blame and condascending attacks. Like i said if you are a supporter and you have not yet been burned don't worry. You are not a member of some elite club. You just have not gotten screwed YET. Don't fret it will happen. So remember that when you attack people on his behalf to get brownie points. Remember that when you come to his defense. You are being played and you are in denial.

So many more examples of people all over the world who, unfortunately , don't have the courage to post because they are holding out hope...or are non confrontational.
 
Let me also add that it costs less than $1000.00 to do an import from Germany usually. Thats F&W inspections(cites isn't much more about $70) broker fees and frieght. So your part of that shouldn't have been much.

Also people should be thanking Wai(Ken) Lui for having the backbone to stand up and post here because if he hadn't you would never hear the other stories being told. It's like the Catholic church. Noone says a word about Father so and so. But eventually someone speaks (sometimes 20-30 years later) and then, all of a sudden, people start coming out of the woodwork. And just like here,the community is shocked!
 
Back
Top