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dont trust Jodie Pieper/Jungle shadows

To prove that is the email I sent him and then he replied to it on the 10th here is the entire thing my email and his reply.

there are alot of things that were said after the 10th (but thats just it after the 10th) I even at one point was going to refund him something so he woudl stop emailing me every second but all he managed to do is piss me off so I stuck with my terms and as it states unless you tell me you want a refund after 4 hours of getting them there are no guarantees.

Jody Pieper

----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Kiper
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 10:59 AM
To: Jody Pieper
Subject: Re: sunbeams

wow do i feel ripped off by you!!!!!!!!!!!the male sunbeam died the nite
before last-the female is near deaththe male crapped brite green before he
died and the female just did the same..also the dumerils has.nt eaten yet
and isnt looking the greatest.I'VE BEEN KEEPING AND BREEDING REPS FOR 15 YRS
NOW AND I CURRENTLY HAVE 8 DIFERENT SPECIES OF LARGE MONITORS-SO ITS NOT BY
MY ERROR!!!!!!!!!I HOPE YOU EEL YOU OWE ME SOMETHING FOR ALL OF THIS!!THE
ANIMALS I SENT YOU WERE COMPLETELY PERFECT!!YOU COULD'NT ASK FOR BETTER
QUALITY!PLEASE WORK SOMETHING OUT WITH ME,SO THIS CAN BE FAIR AND ALSO
PLEASE TAKE BETTER CARE OF THE ANIMALS I SENT YOU THAN YOU TAKE CARE OF
YOURS.......JASON KIPER
----- Original Message -----
From: Jody Pieper <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: sunbeams


> Not sure exact age she is around 20" total length. $150 what ya got in
mind?
> If you want a bigger female i should be getting them end of the month.
>
>
>
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
 
OMG,
Jason had two questions on the email that he sent to you on October 4 regarding feeding, and you said </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The email I sent him in reply is irrelevant. Since there was nothing to answer but his One question which was concerning a female dumerils monitor.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
 
To me this is pointless cause it can go on and on back and forth point this finger and that. but when it comes down to it he never said I want a refund for this or that until the 10th of October.

Simply by saying he thought they were thin etc. doesn't matter he also said Thats OK. as in done deal.

Yes, I did say they were eating and so was the dumerils because they were eating for me. Out of all the ones I sold noone had a problem and noone has had a problem with the dumerils I have a pair that I kept myself that are still here and fine. Look at it how you want but from my point of view he told me he got them and the dumerils was fine and the sunbeams were OK.

I will let you carry this on as long as you wish because it can go forever which i have no time for. (not much into soap operas or the inquirer sorry) Got animals that need me and better things to do then bicker. If anyone would like refrences let me know and I will send them to you.

Done and out of here
Jody Pieper
 
Now I can see why you said that
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The email I sent him in reply is irrelevant. Since there was nothing to answer but his One question which was concerning a female dumerils monitor.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>  In his emai, he asked you </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Kiper
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 6:54 PM
To: Jody Pieper
Subject: Re: sunbeams

they made it just fine.i'm very happy with the dumerils,though he did try to bite,i'm sure he's had a bad day.by chance do you have a female left????the sunbeams need some work,but thats ok.the female seems a little thin,are you sure she's eaten?hhave they fed day or night?thanks again,and let me know if you have a female dumerils.Jason </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> and your reply is </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">----- Original Message -----
From: Jody Pieper
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: sunbeams
> Not sure exact age she is around 20" total length. $150 what ya got in
mind?
> If you want a bigger female i should be getting them end of the month.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Obivously, you didn't give Jason the answers to all his question...
 
I had already told him before that in the other zillion emails we had back and forth that they were feeding for me. I fed them at night live or prekilled mice in there rubbermaid shoebox containers.

Like I said he should of emailed and said these things suck and I want a refund. But instead he said they are a bit thin but it is OK. Which you can take two different ways one way to his advantage one way to mine.

Take it as you will I took it as I did.
This was October 2001 along time ago to be worried about it just now to post on here about it. If you ask me.

Jody Pieper
 
Some people in this hobby try to establish a reputation for going above and beyond at times, while others do not. I try to establish a friendship of sorts with all my customers. And I also try to establish a friendship with people who I purchase from. If I purchased an animal that I thought was not 100%, I may keep it if I thought I could take care of it, rather than return it and possibly ruin a relationship. Plus you would be out shipping both ways, and we all know that is not cheap.

  If you two did a trade, what kind of refund would you have given, short of trading back, which would have made things worse for the animals. I think when he said it was thin, but that is "O.K." did not release Jody from his obligation to deliver healthy animals that were eating. If the sunbeams were eating for you, but thin, why would you sell them to someone who may not be as knowledgable as you, before you got them up to "par"? I do not know anything about sunbeams but I would have made certain that the person who was getting them was aware of their requirements, including a DETAILED procedure for there feeding.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If I purchased an animal that I thought was not 100%, I may keep it if I thought I could take care of it, rather than return it and possibly ruin a relationship. Plus you would be out shipping both ways, and we all know that is not cheap.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I think the same way...

I think as sellers we should all give a longer guarantee.
Mine is contact me within seven (7) days.  Somekind of contact that says "they do not look right......but let me work with them a bit."

Because there were a couple animals I have acquired in the past.....When I first get them I am all excited and give great reviews....because they seem outwardly healthy....It is not until a couple days that problems start showing up.....ie wrong sex or mites or not eating.  but I decide to just "work" with them anyway.

Basically...I look for some kind of little hint that the customer is not happy....just a little hint...then I know to put their money aside just in case.

I do not think we as seller should sell animals that our customers will have to "work" at.  Even if they say "but its okay".  The only time the buyers should be expected to "work with it" is when we say from the start.....hey this snake needs work....wanna buy it anyway?


but that is just my humble opinion.
 
Jody-did you forget to mention to everyone that atfirst you told me that i had credit comeing for the sunbeams and when i tried to get replacements,is when you told me tuff luck????Jason Kiper
 
casey and ritchie-i agree with both of you whole heartedly.I fully feel i was wronged by Jody,i sent him a cb yellow Amazon tree boa,and a totaly awesome 3ft cb and totaly tame False water cobra.both snakes were TOP quality!!and he sends me his fresh imported b-grade crap.theres no way possible that the sunbeams EVER ate for him,and he fully assured me that they had.just on those facts alone,i feel i should be intitled to something,not to mention the fact that he stated i had credit comeing and then  refused.Jason Kiper
 
jay

the male sunbeam died first - is this infomation correct?

unless im mistaken it seemed that you were concerned with the female ...did i miss something ??
 
Jay

One thing I can say for cetain is I know when Jody got the shipment in, and if the Sunbeams had not eaten at all they would have been dead long before you received them.  SUnbeams have a very High Metabolism.  Maybe you should have done a little research on the species before you agreed to get some on a trade.  As far as the Dumerils I saw most of the animals from that shipmnt of Jody's and they were all very nice animals.  In your first e-mail you said the female looked a little skinny and nothing else about the male.  Jody did what was agreed to and that is that.  He as well as anyone else in the reptile Buisiness can not sit around and wait for a customer to either kill an animal or make an animal sick and then wait to see if they want their money back.  I can say this, like I said before. I know Jody personally and know he would not intentionally send out an animal that is in poor condition.  As far as the Sunbeams go, had you ever dealth with that species in the past?  and as far as your 15 years experience in reptiles that is good but really does not mean a thing.  I have seen people that were vetrinarians with 20+ years of experience kill reptiles.  Unless your experience is with a certain species how ever long you have dealt with others is irrelavant.  I have been handing, careing, breeding,and importing reptiles from around the world for over 30 years and guess what....with all my experience I still have animals die on me.  I have the local Vetrinarians come to me with their reptile questions as they do not learn about them in school.  And if you had to spend $400 as you say on the Dumeril Monitors than I would suggest you go back and talk to your vet about a refund.  there is no reason other than a surgery that you would have to pay anything in that range for any kind of treatment.  I would suggest you chalk this up and just work with the animals you have. and Hopefully the other sunbeam witll make it and you will have good luck with them in the future.  You must always remember an imported animal is NO WHERE NEAR EASY!!! in any fashion.  Imported animals take alot of work and most (from most species) will die if not taken 100% care of.
 
Jay. Maybe if you apologize to Jody for "pissing him off" then maybe he will honor his "word" and give you a partial refund. If Jody said a partial refund is due, then I feel it is due. Period. You can not change your mind later because you get upset..... Well I suppose that you can, but you know it is not right... Good luck to both of you.
 
This type of thread never ceases to amaze me how some people can shirk his/her responsibility for shipping crappy animals. I agree completely with what Casey and Ritchie have to say. When an animal first arrives there's no way in the first five minutes you can properly evaluate it's condition or forsee problems such as mites, not eating, or any myriad of health concerns in general. About the only thing that maybe should be said and credited in that initial contact after receiving is "it is or isn't alive." Two days ago I shipped overnight an extremely healthy Suriname Redtail to a gentleman in Michigan. Airborne totally screwed up, and took TWO DAYS to deliver it. When I shipped her out I put in heat packs sufficient for an overnight delivery and appropriate for the weather conditions at that time. I did not anticipate a two day delivery and the box sat on a truck an extra day overnight in near freezing temperatures in Michigan. Miraculously the animal finally arrived alive but barely. Now do I get off the hook here by blaming the shipping company or by saying "well, it did arrive alive and that's my guarantee?" No way! If I were the buyer on the other end I would be looking at the fact that I sent a person hundreds of dollars for something that may or may not live or that could develop a respiratory infection days down the road and I'd be very upset! In my opinion and perhaps only my opinion my obligation to a customer ends with their satisfaction period, end of story. It makes me sick how many people out there portray themselves as "reputable dealers" right up until a situation's going to cost them extra money. Then they look for weasel words or legalease to get out of a situation. Come on Jody, the guy sent you prime animals and it sure doesn't appear that you did. But what the heck you're responsibilty ended with that phone call 5 mintes after they arrived alive, right?
 
Unfortunately, the BOI is not designed, nor is it capable of dispensing immediate justice to those who have wronged others in a deal.  However, it DOES offer us the opportunity to stay away from dealers that are unethical or unfair in their dealings.  I think that a snake that dies five days after delivery is a case for at least a partial refund or some equal consideration.  Jody and his pal disagree.  That is their right.  We have the right not to ever do business with them . . .I won't.

Darin
 
Rob,
your Jody's friend,so of course your going to stick up for him.did you see the exact animals he sent to me??if you've seen his animals,i'm sure you've seen my False water cobra.?cb 4ft and totaly tame.that snake alone would be worth way more the the box of half dead,fresh imports i received.plus he got a cb yellow amazon tree boa!!he stated before that we had several conversations before the trade took place,because i wanted to make sure these were not FRESH IMPORTS.theres no way possible that either sunbeam ate for Jody!!!!(both of which died a day or two apart)YES-i have dealt with sunbeams before-i had an adult male for almost five years before he passed on from old age.my experiances with sunbeams are why i was so persistant before our trade,to make sure that they were feeding.
you being friends with him,doesn't change the facts-i did not agree to fresh imports,i DID tell him within 5 minutes of arrival that i was'nt pleased with the sunbeams,i did tell him later in that day that i was very concerned about the sunbeams,i did notify him of the deaths along with freezing the snakes for return(should be common sence by now)and i was told,by Jody,that i had credit comeing for the sunbeams.those are the FACTS!!!!
 
I have to put my two cents in here, for what it is worth. Jody and I went in together on a group of sunbeams. Jody got the sunbeams, split them up and sent me my half. Being human and doing what any normal human would do, I know Jody probably kept the best for himself, who wouldn't? That is fine tho, cause the half that I got were just fine. A couple of the females were thin from egg laying. Heck, some of them laid while Jody had them!! I got them in, put them all in one tank and offered them food a week later. Everyone of them ate without hesitation on live mice, held in place by the tail so they could get them. They are not the best at chasing down food! They did great for me. At the same time Jody made the deal with Jason, Jason and I were also dealing. I traded him a baby water monitor for a proven female Irian Jaya blue tongue. I questioned him as to how sure he was it was a female, and he assured me he watched her give birth. When I got the animal in, it appeared to be too small to have been a breeder. I asked again about her and was assured he witnessed birth. Well guess what, she was not a she, but instead was a male. When I asked Jay how he witnessed birth, he said he must have sent me the male and the other person the female. I took the loss and didn't say anymore about it. That very well could be the situation. Jay at the time of our deal had informed me he had a bad deal with a girl named Jody. I later found out it was not a girl Jody, that it was Jody Piper. Jay told me he was suppose to recieve a trio of snakes and only got a pair. I see nothing of that mentioned in his confirmation of receipt e-mail to Jody. Must not have been the truth. He also had informed Jody later that the female had died, and in an e-mail to me to me she was still alive! Hmmmmm? Draw your own conclusions here. I also know that Jody stated in his ad, the same thing I had in mine! Live arrival guarenteed and the recomendation for vet check up! If the animal did die within 24 hours, then Jody just refund the money for the male and call it a day. This is not worth it. I would want my money refunded if this had happened to me. I Jody is a credible person and I do not hesitate dealing with him. Sometimes I would like to kick him in the head tho! lol    <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>  Anyway, I think you should just refund the money for the male Jody and forget about it!
 
Well this is a good one.  We have terms in place before the sale.  Terms that say nothing about the customers being "happy" with the animals.  All they say is that they will arrive alive, and that's only if the shipper doesn't screw up.  Now even though Jay knew about these terms he went ahead anyway.  I can tell just by looking at those terms that Jody deals with animals he hasn't had for very long and is not real sure of, or that he is not confident about the shipping process.  There is nothing wrong with either reason for not guaranting his animals.  That's his choice, those are his terms, and if you don't like them don't buy from him.  Jay chose to go ahead anyway.  With 15 years experience he should have known what he was getting into anyway.  

Now with that being said, we're talking about $8 snakes here.  $8 snakes that are imported and difficult to deal with and imported monitors that are notoriously loaded w/ parasities.  Those animals traded for a cb amazon and a false water cobra.  I don't know what the cobra is worth, but the amazon, even at import wholesale, is worth as much as all the other stuff combined.  It boils down to $60 worth of animals traded for at least $100 worth, so someone was either desperate, inexperienced, a sucker, or just really tired of the amazon and the cobra from the get-go.  And there's nothing wrong with that either. But don't make a trade you can't live with, and don't agree to terms you can't abide by.

YES, it totally sucks that the animals died, but there were NO guarantees in place to protect Jay so we can't blame Jody now.  It's just not fair to work backwards.  Jody's terms suck, there's no way around that.  But, they are the industry minimum standard, and Jay did agree to them, so if Jody is not willing to work with him on this then Jay is out of luck.
 
hi Roberta,
yes,i made a MISTAKE on the blue tounge i sent you,and after a few months,you contacted me with a single complaint and i was fully willing to replace him for you(like any decent dealer would) but you liked his temperment and wanted to keep him.
the only way the female was alive when we spoke,would be in the day or two after the male died.i never said they died at the same time.
take care Roberta
 
You can't probe or sex a blue tongue, so it took me til after cooling and putting her/him in with my male to find out the real identity. I did not keep any e-mails but I know time lapse was better then a week or two. It was all irrelivent to me. The skink I got from you was very nice, but not what I needed. I did not ask for a refund, was not a drastic situation. I don't have a problem with either you or Jody. I think both of you are wrong in one way or another. It is not worth turning it into another middle east type crisis. I think you both irritated one another and sparked reactions. You could have been a little nicer in your e-mail to him about the male passing away instead of what you did write. We all know the chances on wild caught animals Mr BCP, whoever you are.
Most people state that they guarentee live healthy arrival, but we also go beyond that. Most also write the standard disclaimer on wild caught animals and even cb animals as far as a vet check. That is pretty much just standard. These two guys just did not hit it off and each reacted to the others attitude and so on. I know Jody is a good guy, and Jay seems rather nice too. I have no problems with either, they are both wrong! lol This is more a personal issue then a business one so to speak now! Jody should refund the money for the male sunbeam. I liek both guys and would deal with both again. It is a case of attitudes clashing now.  Stubborness basically! Jody and Jay need to start over, make ammends and Jody should refund the money for the male! That is all I have to say on this. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
 
all i wanted from Jody was admittance in wronging me,and "something" out of good faith,to help make this right.YES,i was wrong in flieing off the handle(i've been sick for a long time now with Graves disease or hyporthyroidism.many stages in the disease include excessive irritability.not a good excuse,i know but its what i have-i'm sure my wife would like to put a bullet in my head by now.after 10 months of being VERY ill,they finaly have me diagnosed and surgery is near.anyways,i fully feel i was wronged and dont see how he can just live with this.i'm a very trusting person.i told him back in October that i would do something like this.not wanting to ruin anyones reputation,i waited and hoped guilt would set in and he would make ammends.nothing happened and apparently he feels justified in his poor buisness deal.Jason Kiper
 
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