Dr. Owens Partial or impartial?

[royalkreationz]

On September 24, 2007, I made a post in the BOI in reference to a deal with Ed Braaten. I posted the same thread under each advertisement he had on the site. I realize this was a violation of the TOS of this site. On that same day, moderator hhmoore gave me 2 warning points which I do not dispute.
royalkreationz,

You have been issued a warning by hhmoore on the account of Posting BOI topics in other forums!

You now have 2 warning points.

Please read the rules and try to adhere to them to make FaunaClassifieds more useful and enjoyable for us all.

Thanks,
hhmoore
On Behalf of
Site Administration

On September 26, 2007, I was reissued 20 warning points by moderator Dr. Jay Owens in regards to this same post at 10:46 pm. and again at 11:00 pm. This would make a total of two seperate warnings from two seperate moderators for the same violation. Double Jeopardy? Again, I do not dispute the violation of the TOS and the warning points issued by moderator hhmoore.

In response to my second warning for the same violation, I sent the following PM to Dr. Jay Owens


My apologies.

My only question to you is, will you continue to allow him to use your website to conduct snake buisness? I am only asking this because it seems like everyone from law enforcement to reptile websites let him get away with this. He is a bad person for this business, and should be dealt with as such. I can't believe in this country that he is afforded so much protection by law enforcement and others after what he has done and continues to do by sending me taunting text messages.

This is the reply to my message that I sent to Dr. Jay Owens.

What exactly happened between you two?

Now my question is did he read my post before issuing warning points? If he did, why did he ask what happened between us?

I sent this PM the same day I received the above reply from Dr. Jay Owens.

I sent you a reply to your inquiry about Ed Braaten. I have not heard back from you, and was wondering if you read it yet. I would appreciate hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

I received this reply from Dr. Jay Owens.

Jody,
I received your pm, and it was a copy of what you had already posted in his ad. Was there something specific that I was supposed to reply to?

Thanks,
Jody Barnes

In the first post, I specifically asked him if this person would continue to be allowed to conduct such business using this website. Included with this PM, I sent a copy of what was in the BOI because he asked what exactly happened between us and so I took it that he did not read my post before issuing warning points.

My next PM to Dr. Jay Owens.

When you initially responded to me, you asked what the problem was between myself and Ed. I assumed that you didn't read the post, because I feel it clearly explains the details of what occurred between us. I was just wondering how you handle guys that conduct business like this. Do you continue to let them use your site, or do you put a stop to them? That is why I was saying that I felt that all advantages were on his side, as law enforcement declined to get involved, and he still has posts here. It is my position that if I ran this site, I would contact him and get his side of the story. If he lied, then I would ban him from using this site. I feel that it is up to you to protect us from people like this by banning them so they have no opportunity to do this to other people. That is what kingsnake.com did to him. Please let me know how you will handle this situation.

The response to this PM from Dr. Jay Owens.

Jody,
Even if I knew his side of the story, who am I to believe? Assurredly, you will both have different versions of the story.

If you want to make your story public, then the BOI is the place to do it. However, it would be misfounded to think that in telling your story, that you won't be challenged to prove the accuracy of your version of the events.

Good luck with your situation.

-Jay Owens

I can live with this. But, I do think there is more to the story. On December 6, 2007, I was visiting with a friend of mine and was told about the possibility that faunaclassifieds moderator Dr. Jay Owens was doing snake deals with Ed Braaten after my BOI post. This matters to me because I thought Ed should have paid me the money he owed me from the proceeds of the sale of the incubator. Maybe I am wrong?

I sent the following PM to Dr. Jay Owens on December 7, 2007.

Did you buy an incubator from Ed Braaten after I posted the negative feedback against him in the BOI? The reason I am asking is because Ed has said that you and him did some dealing after my negative post. If you have not done any dealings with him, I don't want him to do something to you that would cause you to be viewed negatively or in conjunction with him.

Thanks,
Jody Barnes

The reply I received from Dr. Jay Owens on December 7, 2007.

I did do a trade with Ed. I had originally contacted him prior to your posting about him. However, the trade was completed after the fact.

Why do you ask? And what do you mean by, "I don't want him to do something to you that would cause you to be viewed negatively or in conjunction with him?"

I asked because I thought it was rather interesting that the person who gave me warning points after another moderator had already taken care of the problem is dealing with the individual I was directing my posts at.

My point is this, When I was issued the first warning points by hhmoore, wasn't that enough to take care of the situation? Why did Dr. Jay Owens give me additional warning points for the same violation, and then ask me "What exactly happened between you two?" If he was in contact with Ed, I know Ed told him about the situation. I know this because Ed tried to convince Brandon Boeke to hold a $2k+ fire ball without a deposit and in the meantime tried to talk all kinds of crap about me and my little trip to Kansas. By the way, when I buy snakes from Brandon I go to his house and pick them up. I also get taken to dinner by him and his girlfriend because of the amount of money I spend on animals with them. He knew Ed was not telling the truth.

So, did I get issued double warning points for posting against the friend of a moderator? Did my posts ever get read before I was issued Points? If one mod issued 2 points once, why did Dr. Jay Owens issue 20 points twice? Is this a favor for a friend?

Thanks,
Jody Barnes

This is not intended to be a personal attack, but I am looking for clarification of the events listed above.

 

[Wilomn]

I've had my disagreements with Jay but I'll tell you that as of now, in my opinion, there was nothing personal involved in what he did.

Any of the mods, whether it be one or all forty-somthing of them have the ability to hit any post they want. That means you may get one or two zapping you for one post maybe none on another post and a dozen on yet another post. Each of us take things individually and do out best, well MOST of us, to be impartial. The Doc is fair. You get more points from him because he's a Super Mod than you would from someone like me, just a minimod at a contributor level whereas Harald has twice the punch I do since he is at the endowment level.

I hope that clears it up for you.

 

[Jim O]

First, this does not belong on the BOI. Perhaps a visit to the site rules would be in order for you. Your "argument" is totally without merit as you have a series of five warnings which have been issued for five different posts.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=546055#post546055'

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=546048#post546048'

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=546046#post546046'

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=562105#post562105'

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=562116#post562116'


But in answer to your question there is no exclusion for "double jeopardy". Each and every moderator has the ability to ding you for any post, irrespective of whether another, or multiple others have already done so.

 

[kmurphy]

First, of all you really don't know that Ed Braaten told Dr. Owens anything about what's going between you two. It seems you're just assuming that because Ed told someone else. Second, you can get warning points from as many mods as feel it is necessary. That's why it takes so many to get suspended. Last, what gives you the right to question someone about their business with another individual?

 

[DThomas]

As Wes has already stated and has been said by Rich, any number of Mods can issue warnings for a given post. There is no limit on the amount of points you can receive. Super Mod points are automatically multiplied by a factor of 4 above the listed point totals. That's why you received more points from Doc Jay.

As for the deal, as he already told you, the deal was already in the works before he knew about your issues.

 

[DThomas]

Also, I have called and left a message for Jay letting him know this thread has been started.

 

[royalkreationz]

ok

ok...........

 

[varnyard]

This has nothing to do with a business transaction, I think this thread needs to be moved to the dump, but if it must exist the BS forums would be a better place then here.

Jody, are you sure this is not a personal attack?

 

[DThomas]

This has nothing to do with a business transaction, I think this thread needs to be moved to the dump, but if it must exist the BS forums would be a better place then here.

Jody, are you sure this is not a personal attack?

Well, since he is calling in to question Dr. Owens mod and business ethics, I think it is ok here. Atleast until Jay has a chance to respond.

 

[cahrens]

Seems to me that if at the end of the day, the only thing I can find to whine about is warning points in Fauna, it's been a good day. Geez.

 

[Dr Owens]

On September 24, 2007, I made a post in the BOI in reference to a deal with Ed Braaten. I posted the same thread under each advertisement he had on the site. I realize this was a violation of the TOS of this site.

Thank you for acknowledging the fact that you knowingly violated the TOS of this site...multiple times. As you know, when you violate the TOS of this site, and it is noticed by a Moderator or a Super Moderator, you will get warning points.

On September 26, 2007, I was reissued 20 warning points by moderator Dr. Jay Owens in regards to this same post at 10:46 pm. and again at 11:00 pm.

The issue as to why my warning points carry more weight has already been addressed. However, I feel that it is worth pointing out, that I warned you for two of your posts. I did this in spite of the fact that you had committed the same infraction at least an additional four times (based on a quick count) that I did not give you warning points for...and I'm pretty sure that Ed deleted a couple of his ads to which you posted, so if the truth be told, you were probably eligible for a lot more warning points than that.

Here are seven posts (four from your original attack on Ed, and three from your thread about him) that I did not give you warning points for:

1. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=546055# (Attack on a member outside of the BOI)
2. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=546049&postcount=3 (Attack on a member outside of the BOI)
3. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=546048&postcount=2 (Attack on a member outside of the BOI)
4. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=546049&postcount=3 (Attack on a member outside of the BOI)
5. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=558761&postcount=35 (Actual or implied threat of another member)
6. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562105&postcount=42 (Actual or implied threat of another member)
7. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562116&postcount=44 (Actual or implied threat of another member)

In fact, concerning the last two threatening posts, rather than warn you I made the following post:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562119&postcount=46

I am not aware of anywhere on this forum where I have EVER been that nice about someone making a threat against another member of this site! I hardly think that you have demonstrated ANY sort of "partiality" on my part. In fact, I would go so far as to say that perhaps I errored on the side of leniency in dealing with your posts. Posts that quite frankly are still eligible for warning points should I or any other Moderator or Super Moderator choose to administer them.

This would make a total of two seperate warnings from two seperate moderators for the same violation. Double Jeopardy?

This issue has already been addressed. This is a frequent occurance on this site, and has been explained numerous times in the past.

I sent the following PM to Dr. Jay Owens on December 7, 2007.

Did you buy an incubator from Ed Braaten after I posted the negative feedback against him in the BOI? The reason I am asking is because Ed has said that you and him did some dealing after my negative post. If you have not done any dealings with him, I don't want him to do something to you that would cause you to be viewed negatively or in conjunction with him.

Thanks,
Jody Barnes

Jody,
You said, "I don't want him to do something to you that would cause you to be viewed negatively or in conjunction with him." That is a lie. You asked because you were trying to gather info in order to try to discredit someone who had done a deal with Ed. You are a liar.

I asked because I thought it was rather interesting that the person who gave me warning points after another moderator had already taken care of the problem is dealing with the individual I was directing my posts at.

Thank you for admitting that you lied in your pm. Once again, not to be redundant, but you are a liar. Personally, I'm not real fond of liars, and I don't put much credence into what they say.

So, did I get issued double warning points for posting against the friend of a moderator?

No. I gave you warning points for two out of a total of nine posts (and as I previously stated, I am fairly certain that there were more posts than that, but Ed deleted several of his ads since that time).

Did my posts ever get read before I was issued Points?

Yes.

Jody,
Seriously...have you read your own writing? It's borderline incoherent. I asked an open ended question in hopes that you might offer the pertinent facts in a little more clear, and concise manner.

If one mod issued 2 points once, why did Dr. Jay Owens issue 20 points twice?

The issue as to why my points carry more weight has already been addressed.

Is this a favor for a friend?

No.




Concerning Jody, when I first "met" Ed (on the phone), he told me about Jody, and how their deal had "gone wrong." Quite frankly, I didn't really talk with Ed about it in detail other than to advise him to go ahead and get a restraining order against Jody due to the fact that he is clearly unbalanced (to say the least). I base that assessment on the fact that Ed played me a number of the voice messages that Jody had left for him on his cell phone (Jody was filling Ed's voice mailbox on a nightly basis with calls placed at all hours of the night). If I had to describe those messages in one word, it would be "psychotic"...impressively so even. The messages sounded like the rantings of someone who was either heavily under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol, or someone who had a less than firm grasp on the edge of his mental health...or perhaps both. Needless to say, having heard those messages, I have put little faith in anything else that Jody has had to say.


Having said all that, I worked approximately 35-36 hours from the time I got up Wednesday morning until the time I got home this afternoon (Friday)...and that does not include the time that I had to spend on my animals that easily tacked on an additional 6-8 hours. During that time, I was able to get about 3 hours sleep. To say the least, I am tired enough that I am not really interested in participating in such a ridiculous argument such as this. If anyone feels that I need to answer any further questions, then I would be more than happy to do so, but it probably won't happen until tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[varnyard]

Thanks Jay, I think we all can see what is going on here. This thread has nothing to do with business, it needs to be moved to the BS forum, JMHO.

I asked before: Jody, are you sure this is not a personal attack? Well I think we have our answer, Jody looks like you have a great case of breaking the TOS here, nothing more.

 

[royalkreationz]

No personal attack

I asked the questions He said what he wanted to. That's that. I am not going to argue or anything. If that is the answer he wants to give then that is what I will have to take.

I am not psychotic, and I think it is funny that the two of them think a protective order is needed for someone that is 500 miles away. If you don't screw somebody over, then there is nothing to worry about. Not that Jay screwed me, but that the thought crossed his mind to tell someone they need protection from someone 500 miles away.

The deal with Ed will end when I get $700, the snake back (which I offered to pay the shipping), or what ever I consider satisfactory. Be it tomorrow, 10 years from now.

Thank you for you answer Jay.

 

[varnyard]

I asked the questions He said what he wanted to. That's that. I am not going to argue or anything. If that is the answer he wants to give then that is what I will have to take.

He posted the proof that you did in fact violate the TOS a bunch of times.

I am not psychotic, and I think it is funny that the two of them think a protective order is needed for someone that is 500 miles away. If you don't screw somebody over, then there is nothing to worry about. Not that Jay screwed me, but that the thought crossed his mind to tell someone they need protection from someone 500 miles away.

Ok, well that still has nothing to do with you having a business transaction with Jay.

The deal with Ed will end when I get $700, the snake back (which I offered to pay the shipping), or what ever I consider satisfactory. Be it tomorrow, 10 years from now.

That beef is with Ed, it has nothing to do with this thread.

Thank you for you answer Jay.

Now on that I can agree with you.

 

[varnyard]

52 warning points is nothing, if you would have been hit for every violation, you would have had a bunch more.

I don't like Ed, and everyone knows what I think of him, but it has nothing to do with Jay doing his job, I am sure you can see this.

 

[royalkreationz]

ok

........

Do you have anything else to say?

 

[Dr Owens]

I asked the questions He said what he wanted to.

What does that even mean?

That's that. I am not going to argue or anything.

What is there to argue? You made accusations, I clearly proved them to be false. What is left?

If that is the answer he wants to give then that is what I will have to take.

You mean the facts as they pertain to your accusations? What else do you want?

I am not psychotic

Look, Jody...I heard the messages. You're either psychotic, or you have a problem with drugs/alcohol, or both. I don't know which...but you're clearly not a well balanced person from a mental health perspective.

and I think it is funny that the two of them think a protective order is needed for someone that is 500 miles away.

Actually, the sheriff is the one who told him to get the restraining order...after you drove 500 miles and showed up at his house threatening him. I merely agreed with the sheriff...after hearing your voice messages. What in the world is your point?

If you don't screw somebody over, then there is nothing to worry about.

Once again, a veiled threat.

Not that Jay screwed me, but that the thought crossed his mind to tell someone they need protection from someone 500 miles away.

What??? What does my agreeing with the sheriff (who actually spoke with you) have to do with anything? What does "the thought crossed his mind" even mean? What kind of illogical thought process are you demonstrating? How do you even draw a relationship in that addled brain of yours between me, and your bad deal with Ed? Seriously...what is wrong with you?

The deal with Ed will end when I get $700, the snake back (which I offered to pay the shipping), or what ever I consider satisfactory. Be it tomorrow, 10 years from now.

Good for you. Once again, what in the world does that have to do with me?

Thank you for you answer Jay.

Uhhhh...yeah. No problem.

Weird...

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

........

Do you have anything else to say?

He may not but I do.

Jody You arrived on this site with a chip on your shoulder. Your posts bear this out nicely. There are few members on this site that carry more respect than Jay. If he says the messages were of a psychotic nature, than they were...plain and simple. You threatened Braaten repeatedly in your posts and basically told everyone on this site to shut up and deal with it. Now you are bitching about the results of your actions. Braaten may be branded a thief by this transaction because I truly believe he owes you the $700 but i believe that you have been added to as many "do not deal with" lists as he has by your behavior.

Do yourself a favor and let this one go. Further posting will make you look like even more of a nut.

 

[Dr Owens]

........

Do you have anything else to say?

Dude...YOU are the one who brought all of this up!

Geez...fruitloop.

 

[royalkreationz]

WOW

you have never met me and I am an alcoholic or on drugs? I am psychotic?

feel free to call and we can discuss my problems. Are you a Dr. of psychiatry?

806-773-6643

I meant you said what you wanted to when you answered the questions. If I can't accept that then that is my deal. I read your post and will take the answers you gave. That means I am a psychotic drug addict or alcoholic?

Come on man. I have never touched a drug in my life, nor do I drink myself into intxicatioin. I bought a 12 pack of beer 3 months ago and still have 8 in the fridge if you want to come over and share one with me.

Thank you for your time.