Bad Guy Dragons and Tails

[Willow]

I would be interested in knowing that if you cant afford to take care of your dragons properly....why have you posted in 4 different "for sale" ad's just today saying you are wanting to buy other animals....how are you going to be able to afford to take care of other peoples animals if you cant afford to care for the ones you already have?

 

[KelliH]

I would be interested in knowing that if you cant afford to take care of your dragons properly....why have you posted in 4 different "for sale" ad's just today saying you are wanting to buy other animals....how are you going to be able to afford to take care of other peoples animals if you cant afford to care for the ones you already have?

Excellent question!

 

[Sadistic Serpent]

Excellent question!

Ha ha, I was thinking the same thing. I was going to post it on the thread in the BOI forums, but I can't find it.

How do you have the time and money for snakes, but no time and money for bearded dragons?

 

[dustinntech]

It's easy to say something over the internet. But actions speak louder than words... I also wonder why you are wanting "cheap" snakes, yet you claim you need to sell your bearded dragons because you can't afford them...

 

[Lucille]

Well I wanted to make sure that everyone saw this thread. That thread was very cluttered and I wanted it to be crystal clear for everyone to see.

That is not really a good reason for coming to a site and deliberately avoiding its rules for your own convenience.

If a thread about you was 'cluttered' that means that there were many opinions that people took the time and effort to write, and those opinions should be read along with what you choose to say.

 

[Utta]

That is not really a good reason for coming to a site and deliberately avoiding its rules for your own convenience.

If a thread about you was 'cluttered' that means that there were many opinions that people took the time and effort to write, and those opinions should be read along with what you choose to say.

Clutter could also mean unanswered questions... wonder if there are any of those in that thread?

 

[PAVLOVK1025]

HUGE fail on the seller's behalf.

 

[Matt2979]

Yeah thats rediculous, its obvious your going way out for this one. Your being very immature. Thats not even what theyre breeds are. So much for knowing all the little details.

Are YOU seriously calling the buyer immature???? I've seen nothing but patience from her... a lot more than I could muster, myself, given these ridiculous circumstances.

What is your reason for not refunding (AT LEAST) the dead dragon?? Because it was doing fine at your house? Before you stuck him in a box to be shipped at WAY TOO EARLY of an age???? When someone told you it was ok to ship at 2", you decided that 1 1/2" was CLOSE to 2" so it must be ok???? BTW...you said that you never enclosed 2 heat-packs, but did you not think to enclose a cool pack to ship to "an extremely hot state"??

I NEVER SAID that they were 6 inches, I told you the date of their birth, and i would NEVER put two heat packs in their package. I am not an idiot, and it brings tears to my eyes when I see one of my babys that dont make it. Being honest I have had some dragons that havent made it, and have had my own set of failures, but I want the best for my dragons and try to give them the best. I dont make stupid decisions like shipping to an extremely hot state and throwing in 2 heat packs. Im not a dumb ass.

I realize that you haven't been doing this very long (at least the shipping part) so why can't you confess to screwing up and do the right thing??? Refund the OP for the dead dragon and learn from your mistakes!

 

[Craigh]

Ok she already posted on the other thread she made a mistake and is going to refund the dead dragon. The heat pack is just a he said she said thing with no proof being posted. Only thing to do is wait and see if she does send money to Jess .

 

[deborahbroadus]

I would be interested in knowing that if you cant afford to take care of your dragons properly....why have you posted in 4 different "for sale" ad's just today saying you are wanting to buy other animals....how are you going to be able to afford to take care of other peoples animals if you cant afford to care for the ones you already have?

GOOD CATCH!

I had seen her post requesting a price on the WC Pied from Alabama.

Her behavior are indications that point to the possibility that something may be wrong with her animals and she wants to get rid of them fast.

 

[Craigh]

Incase anyone miss it ..

This whole situtation has been misled over where it should have been.
Honestly to everyone, I LOVE my dragons. I just started out breeding probably a year or so ago, and im still learning. Through learning I have failed and suceeded, and yes I made some mistakes, and even in this situation I apologize to you Jessica, and others who ive upset by this. I shipped the dragons out too early, I should have waited until 6-8 weeks but I shipped out before then. Im not going to sugar coat anything. I screwed up and I apologize to everyone. I have some very beautiful dragons I am rehoming, and I was getting out of dragons BEFORE this whole thing started, for now. I cant afford to take care of them and give them the attention they deserve. So im going to find great homes for them, and when I move to a bigger place they will be living in heaven and I will make new rules with my breeding to ship out at 8 weeks. I have never had any health problems with my dragons. Sometimes dragons dont make it. My mistake was shipping them early. I did not place two heat packs, not even one, I swear to this. This is what upsets me is she is taking things way out of hand and this is a lie. I hope you all can work with me and hear me out, its important to me what everyone thinks and this really has a huge impact on me. Its not just not phasing me, and I strongly care. Ive been somewhat avoiding it because I dont want to stress myself out, im not trying to involove personal issues but I have been avoiding it because I dont want to add stress on my pregnancy. So when all is situated I will begin again. I just want everyone to know I love and care about my dragons, they live happily and great and get sun every day out of their cages. Once again sorry all and to you Jessica. My boyfriend doesnt know if the baby did die in 24 hours because you didnt adress me until over 24 hours of this. It was 2 days after you recieved the babys, and I probably have the text in my sent box, dated and all. So I hope this resolved this whole issue. Thankyou all take Care. -Brenda L.
​

 

[Craigh]

From what I read she is getting out of Dragons. I didn’t see anything with her saying she is getting out of having pets. Unless I missed something ..

 

[aleria]

From what I read she is getting out of Dragons. I didn’t see anything with her saying she is getting out of having pets. Unless I missed something ..

But her excuse was her lack of time/inability to provide them with everything they would need due to her current pregnancy, stress, blah blah blah. So if that's the case, getting rid of one type of animal just to get more of another would kind of invalidate that excuse altogether.

 

[Craigh]

I thought I read this morning that she was going to refund Jess. Shouldn’t read before my cup of coffee. I;m mistaking and again thought she posted that she was going to refund the dead dragon .. sorry

 

[deborahbroadus]

Despite the fact they are sickly looking, They are still part of my family and my upcoming breeding project. As soon as they shed, new pictures will go up. As do with all of my reptiles. Is there a problem with that? They may be sick looking, but i still love 'em and I'm proud they are still living. Plus my husband is in the field (military) and they are his bday present...which didn't turn out so well, but regardless. I posted them so he could see them as he has net access but pic texts dont really seem to work to well.

Hectic, this is just a question, and I mean nothing at all by it.

Is it a good idea to breed dragons not knowing the bloodlines? I have been doing a lot of research and a dragon breeder that I consider a friend, who is no longer active on this site taught me quite a lot about possible issues that could result.

 

[bloodybaroness]

GOOD CATCH!

I had seen her post requesting a price on the WC Pied from Alabama.

Her behavior are indications that point to the possibility that something may be wrong with her animals and she wants to get rid of them fast.

I just saw that too. She can't afford to care for her dragons and she asks the price of a snake I'm certain will go for well over $1,000++?

Something stinks, and I fully agree with you Deb.

 

[Craigh]

Ok I just seen she also is trying to buy a Tegu and frilled dragons also. So I see her excuse as just an excuse. At first I was thinking my snakes don’t take up as much time as my dragons and could kinda under stand but Tegu and frilled dragons take a lot of time and money to care for .

 

[shinezilla]

Hectic, this is just a question, and I mean nothing at all by it.

Is it a good idea to breed dragons not knowing the bloodlines? I have been doing a lot of research and a dragon breeder that I consider a friend, who is no longer active on this site taught me quite a lot about possible issues that could result.

That is a good question. Although in-crossing and out-crossing is relatively common now-a-days to produce more of the sought out specific characteristics of an animal,
health issues will be apparent to a certain degree... Animals aren't humans, you can't ask them "what's wrong?" and expect them to tell you.

Maybe you should've asked questions prior to your purchase, that way you would've had a better judgement call on the person you are/did purchase from?

It's sad that alot of purchases nowadays are being based upon cost. Sadly, anyone can pick up two animals from a pet store adoption table, let nature take its course, consider themselves as breeders and make a quick buck.

I hope the seller makes things right and good luck

 

[HecticLifeReptiles]

No I do not condone breeding of dragons without knowing bloodlines!!! And I will not, I will sell dragons whos bloodlines i do not Know before I breed them. However, a friend of mine managed to get the exact bloodlines of the three Brenda sent me, so they are no longer at a disadvantage, plus I also carry some Euro stock dragons who are unrelated to US bloodlines. Mikey and Skitz are my two that are from A1 dragons and they are unrelated US Stock. However, these babies will be far to young to breed in the upcoming year. But i do have their bloodlines as of this morning. Thank you Cheryl ^_^

 

[Rio Reptiles]

It is against my better judgement to be a part of this, but I feel it is respectable to back up the person who tried to do the right thing. Jessica emailed me on May 1st interested in purchasing some baby dragons. She asked for pictures and availability while stating she preferred 7 - 8 inches in size. She also told me it would be a week or two before she would be able to purchase but definitely was interested. As a breeder, we all know at this point it is rare that you ever hear back. I always take the low pressure approach and tell people to take their time and make sure they are ready and to let me know if they have questions in the mean time. On May 15th she emailed me back saying she was ready and it was go time. The pressure was on me at this point, she wanted her dragons! For 2 days I took a bunch of new pictures, countless emails, and her decision was made, she wanted them shipped Wednesday, May 19th for delivery Thursday May 20th. Ironically, she was emailing me all day Wednesday with questions on how I do things, you know, going over the basics like we all do comparing notes and practices. She also wanted some more pics of them together, etc. Then later that evening she asked me if they were shipped and I about crapped, I had thought it was Tuesday all day that day and I felt horrible that I had forgot. I begged her forgiveness and asked if I could do anything to make up for it. We finally decided on setting her up with a dubia colony on my tab. She mentioned that someone else had forgotten as well and the next day was fine. The only good thing about the situation is that it had been very HOT that day and UPS only guaranteed delivery by end of day. I was very hesitant to ship and asked her what time her deliveries normally arrived. I checked weather.com and the highs were 95ºF and lows were a mere 78º. If I knew they would be there by 10:30 am or Noon it wouldn't be so bad but the thought of them being in a truck all day in that heat, I told her I couldn't guarantee live delivery. So the next day I packed them up with a couple small ice packs and marked the box "KEEP COOL" all over. That Friday we emailed back and forth a dozen times until UPS arrived, luckily it was overcast that day and the temps only reached 90ºF. When they were delivered, she told me that the UPS guy had regarded the writing on the box and put them in a special place so he knew they would not get too hot. When she opened the box they were all perfectly fine but she still gave them a good soak and updated me several times again later.

My point: This girl is a communicator and always willing to listen and learn. She has an iphone and I have a Blackberry, so we can email each other just the same as texting. As a breeder, I feel it is very important to be 100% available to your customers and your dragons. With the technology today, it couldn't be any easier. When customers don't ask questions, that's when I worry. I feel good communication creates a bond of trust between people because you can make an accurate judge of character by what people say and do. Not that it's a bad thing, but Jessica is young, naive and a little ignorant to some of the ways of the world. She's not the kind of person who would waste her time making up lies if it didn't actually happen that way. I feel like I am a pretty good judge of character in regards to her.

May 26th, out of the blue she emails me and another breeder -
subject line: I do not agree
"With breeders Brenda n Cameron at dragons n tails. They sent out 4
baby dragons to me for $100 a piece, when they arrived they were
unanimated, dehydrated n one looked like he wouldn't make it. They are
but a mere 3 1/2 inches at the largest and 2 3/4 at the smallest. I
have always been instructed to never ship a dragon that is under 2-3
months old, but Cheryl you said they are around 3 weeks correct?
Dragons n tails believe it is safe to ship a 3 week old baby dragon
overnight from Cali to Texas. John how do you feel of this at breeders
circle? I know our little icicle was at least 6 inches. Which marks
her at 3-5 months, correct? These little ones are scrawny n very
small. I had to clear out a tank just so they could be happy. I found
the people quite rude as well. The dragons were suppose to ship last
wensday it took 8 voicemails n 13 texts n then finally calling Brendas
partner to get a response from them!! I feel cheaped. They won't even
give me lineage or parent information. I think they should issue
licenses for reptile owners to ensure they have the proper sense n
knowledge!! These ppl are worse than ** ********!!"

I replied that she shouldn't have paid that much for hatchlings, they were 3 weeks old but the size of 1 to 2 week old babies from my experience. I told her I would never sell a dragon that small unless it is to another breeder or experienced wholesaler, and for a lot less money because of their age. I also said I thought she had been taken advantage of but to let them know right away how she felt. I also coached her on making a slurry and hand feeding them along with pedialyte, etc. to try to rehabilitate them. I couldn't believe the picture she sent me of the runt, it was so tiny and skinny I didn't think it would ever survive.

She did not want her money back, she didn't care. She was mostly upset that people did business this way and would treat animals that way. She knew if she sent them back that it would surely be the end of them. It just wasn't right right in her mind. On May 30th she called me when the one passed away and sent me the pic of the spot on the belly. She didn't complain or even mention the breeders, I think she just wanted to feel like she did her best and needed support. At this point it wasn't about getting a refund or her satisfaction of the quality. It was a moral issue in regards selling and shipping baby dragons that were not big or healthy enough to survive the trip. It should have never happened in the first place, but it did, and now she wanted to make sure it didn't happen again. I asked if she checked here before she purchased but she had not. She, like all of us, trusted everybody at first and didn't expect this to happen to her. When she decided to share her story here, I told her to be sure to keep it clean and only state facts and not personally attack anyone. I feel she did a good job in her initial post and has maintained a respectful attitude. I'm sorry she had to go through this but we all live and learn. It's times like this that makes most of us better people by learning what not to do and how not to be.

Thank you for your time,
Cheryl Iorio