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Bad Guy Ed Clark, again

ooohh

Otter_23 said:
I agree that the female is more expensive but if you were specifically getting a male that is close to breeding age that is what you want not a female that is around 2 years away from breeding. I agree that keeping the female and asking for a refund is a lot.
Click to expand...

i missed that somewhere but to get refunded and keeping the snake is pretty far fetched. Try and stay reasonable. no matter who your dealing with.
 
dragonluver83 said:
i missed that somewhere but to get refunded and keeping the snake is pretty far fetched. Try and stay reasonable. no matter who your dealing with.
Click to expand...

Word. Reasonable problemsolving is quite a distance from golddigging.
 
dragonluver83 said:
Im not a snake guy so forgive me, but who cares about the $$$. Nicole wanted a male got a female. obviously she wants a male and if she still wants a male after knowing the above. She is entitled to it. Ed obviously didnt loose anything because he didnt even know the sex. Even thought it was supposedly sexed!!! Ed by his own words said 30 day sex guarantee and should replace it. As he posted he would.
I am still curious if the snake was already treated for the parasites??? An also curious if he sends you a replacement snake what condition will it be in? Will it need treatment for the same parasite? Sounds like a double headache. Maybe you should treat the animals you got and look for a male somewhere else.
Click to expand...


I am starting the process of deworming now, and will have them both retested a month after treatments have ceased.

As already stated, it's not smart to ship a snake in this weather, I love animals and I know am attached to this snake, I don't want to endanger this snake or a replacement snake that will most likely have parasites and who knows if the gender will be correct this time? It doesn't seem right for the animal that has been near death, trucked back and forth to the vet, medication itself is hard on the animals system, to ship it back. What happens if she dies during transit? Am I then liable to Ed for the cost of her?

So do I hold her for 3 months and then ship? A male at that point would do me no good as by the time quarantine is over, it will be too late for me to breed them.

Not sure what else can be done?
 
lucille said:
Word. Reasonable problemsolving is quite a distance from golddigging.
Click to expand...

So keeping a sick snake that may or may not recover and wanting some sort of compensation for the BS I've been through is gold digging?

It is hard to come to a reasonable solution when the person won't get in touch with you!

That is why I came on here, trying to get a response...just got one though, so it worked.
 
Just wanted to thank everyone for their input, good, bad, for, against, unsure. It has helped to clarify things and it did it's job which was to get Ed to contact me.
Nothing is resolved at the moment, but at least we are talking.
 
compensation and getting free animals are two different things. Well now that your getting some sort of resolution maybe you should ask Ed and work out an agreement with the treatments and care for three months or whatever else you have questions about. and if your not getting some sort of justice you know what to do. But be level headed about your "wants" or "what you think is right." You got cought in a shitty deal and you to need to work *together* on coming to a resolution. Cause your still in a situation that can be made worse.
 
TripleMoonsExotic said:
I think it's moot at this point really since Ed has already offered a pretty standard resolution to the miss-sexing. Return the snake, get a replacement.
Click to expand...

Normally I would agree with you. But the OP now has additional $$$ tied up in a vet bill. Sorry, but there is no way I would ship a snake back for an even trade after shelling out $300+ in vet bills. I cant remember what they said they paid for it (read too many threads since then), but going off a earlier post that males are around $250... why would you want to send a snake back that you have $550 in, just for him to turn around and send you another $250 snake. And this next comment it not meant to be against Ed.... and HOPE you dont have medical problems with it (hey... anything is possible... and with my luck. Thats what I would get)

:shrug01:

Im not sure what would be a reasonable answer here. The OP already has more in vet bills than the cost of the snake from what Im gathering.
 
Nicole,

In Ed's defense (no flaming me folks!) not even the best heat packs and insulation can withstand those temps. And those little ones are little miracles for surviving. Also I can understand the possibility of a misunderstanding of when to ship. Miss communications do happen especially when someone is in a hurry or something has part of their attention.

Personally you should keep her and sell her offspring or just sell her on your own when the weather improves. Attached or not. I know I would. I understand the HUGE frustration in getting a miss-sexed animal. But really when it comes down to it (IMO) if you think of just the price Ed is really getting the short end of the stick if you keep her. She's worth more even as a young baby and of course the more weight she puts on the more she'll be worth. But I'm sure you know all that.

That all being said I do fault BOTH of you for the animals being shipped. Yes most of the blame is on Ed but the full mistake is not his. New to the hobby or not how could you think that all the insulation and heat packs would protect an animal in a cardboard box in below freezing temperatures???? Even in a good amount gear a warmblooded human cannot survive that. No offense but in seems that common sense was not used on your side either.

I am not absolving Ed of the mistakes but I am understanding how they could have happened.

I think a good resolve would be you keep the animal and Ed pay you the difference. Meaning pay you the difference between market average on a male vs female Black Pastel. So if a male (hearsay) costs $200 and a female of the same age and close weight costs $350 then Ed should pay you $150.
That way it's as though you bought a female not a male. Not what you wanted I know. But better then nothing and then there's the potential of having another - nice looking breeder female black pastel.

My reason for coming up with this solution is sending back the female, attachment or not, is just plain not safe and he won't refund without her being sent. Rightfully so. Not safe for him to ship you a different animal.

These are just my thoughts. Again sorry for the hassles and hope it's resolved soon.
 
...

rusticreptiles said:
So keeping a sick snake that may or may not recover and wanting some sort of compensation for the BS I've been through is gold digging?

It is hard to come to a reasonable solution when the person won't get in touch with you!

That is why I came on here, trying to get a response...just got one though, so it worked.
Click to expand...

Southern Wolf said:
Normally I would agree with you. But the OP now has additional $$$ tied up in a vet bill. Sorry, but there is no way I would ship a snake back for an even trade after shelling out $300+ in vet bills. I cant remember what they said they paid for it (read too many threads since then), but going off a earlier post that males are around $250... why would you want to send a snake back that you have $550 in, just for him to turn around and send you another $250 snake. And this next comment it not meant to be against Ed.... and HOPE you dont have medical problems with it (hey... anything is possible... and with my luck. Thats what I would get)

:shrug01:

Im not sure what would be a reasonable answer here. The OP already has more in vet bills than the cost of the snake from what Im gathering.
Click to expand...

Actually she got a more expensive snake,Ed made a mistake or who ever sexed it. So maybe she should just KEEP the snake and resell it after she gets it treated. sounds like the snake would pay itself off and the vet bill in due time. I know thats kinda crappy but not everything goes as planned with every transaction.
Also Nicole what you want and what your actually gonna get may be two different things. Looks like everything is all good with the miss sexing. but as far as vet bills this sounds like its coming outta her pockets. Nicole do you want another snake after getting those in with problems? Sounds like more drama than you really need. But hey, your vet will love you!
 
Southern Wolf said:
Normally I would agree with you. But the OP now has additional $$$ tied up in a vet bill. Sorry, but there is no way I would ship a snake back for an even trade after shelling out $300+ in vet bills. I cant remember what they said they paid for it (read too many threads since then), but going off a earlier post that males are around $250... why would you want to send a snake back that you have $550 in, just for him to turn around and send you another $250 snake. And this next comment it not meant to be against Ed.... and HOPE you dont have medical problems with it (hey... anything is possible... and with my luck. Thats what I would get)

Im not sure what would be a reasonable answer here. The OP already has more in vet bills than the cost of the snake from what Im gathering.
Click to expand...

O, you misunderstand me. I simply was stating that was what Ed has offered on the table and he's seems to be stickin' with it. As far as more in vet bills then the cost of the snake, I don't think so. Not if it is in fact a female.

It's a tough call. I personally would offer her a Black Pastel male at 50% off and she can keep the female for what she paid for a male. That's me though. :shrug01: I wouldn't have shipped in such cold weather, so the RI situation that required a vet would have been a non-issue.
 
TailsWithScales said:
Nicole,

In Ed's defense (no flaming me folks!) not even the best heat packs and insulation can withstand those temps. And those little ones are little miracles for surviving. Also I can understand the possibility of a misunderstanding of when to ship. Miss communications do happen especially when someone is in a hurry or something has part of their attention.

Personally you should keep her and sell her offspring or just sell her on your own when the weather improves. Attached or not. I know I would. I understand the HUGE frustration in getting a miss-sexed animal. But really when it comes down to it (IMO) if you think of just the price Ed is really getting the short end of the stick if you keep her. She's worth more even as a young baby and of course the more weight she puts on the more she'll be worth. But I'm sure you know all that.

That all being said I do fault BOTH of you for the animals being shipped. Yes most of the blame is on Ed but the full mistake is not his. New to the hobby or not how could you think that all the insulation and heat packs would protect an animal in a cardboard box in below freezing temperatures???? Even in a good amount gear a warmblooded human cannot survive that. No offense but in seems that common sense was not used on your side either.

I am not absolving Ed of the mistakes but I am understanding how they could have happened.

I think a good resolve would be you keep the animal and Ed pay you the difference. Meaning pay you the difference between market average on a male vs female Black Pastel. So if a male (hearsay) costs $200 and a female of the same age and close weight costs $350 then Ed should pay you $150.
That way it's as though you bought a female not a male. Not what you wanted I know. But better then nothing and then there's the potential of having another - nice looking breeder female black pastel.

My reason for coming up with this solution is sending back the female, attachment or not, is just plain not safe and he won't refund without her being sent. Rightfully so. Not safe for him to ship you a different animal.

These are just my thoughts. Again sorry for the hassles and hope it's resolved soon.
Click to expand...

I almost fully agree. i think she should get it healthy and re-sell it for the profit. Why should she send extra money to Ed? He mis sexed it, thought it was a male and lost nothing. i think Ed owes nothing for the vet bills and Nicole owes no extra because its a female.That should call it even. whats so hard about that? am i wrong?
 
dragonluver83 said:
I almost fully agree. i think she should get it healthy and re-sell it for the profit. Why should she send extra money to Ed? He mis sexed it, thought it was a male and lost nothing. i think Ed owes nothing for the vet bills and Nicole owes no extra because its a female.That should call it even. whats so hard about that? am i wrong?
Click to expand...

Please reread what I said:

Originally Posted by TailsWithScales View Post
Nicole,


I think a good resolve would be you keep the animal and Ed pay you the difference. Meaning pay you the difference between market average on a male vs female Black Pastel. So if a male (hearsay) costs $200 and a female of the same age and close weight costs $350 then Ed should pay you $150.
That way it's as though you bought a female not a male. Not what you wanted I know. But better then nothing and then there's the potential of having another - nice looking breeder female black pastel.
Click to expand...

So Ed pay Nicole. Not vice versa.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonluver83 View Post
I almost fully agree. i think she should get it healthy and re-sell it for the profit. Why should she send extra money to Ed? He mis sexed it, thought it was a male and lost nothing. i think Ed owes nothing for the vet bills and Nicole owes no extra because its a female.That should call it even. whats so hard about that? am i wrong?
Please reread what I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TailsWithScales View Post
Nicole,


I think a good resolve would be you keep the animal and Ed pay you the difference. Meaning pay you the difference between market average on a male vs female Black Pastel. So if a male (hearsay) costs $200 and a female of the same age and close weight costs $350 then Ed should pay you $150.
That way it's as though you bought a female not a male. Not what you wanted I know. But better then nothing and then there's the potential of having another - nice looking breeder female black pastel.
So Ed pay Nicole. Not vice versa.
Click to expand...

that doesnt really make any sinse at all.
giving a discount on a male would work
or them calling it even and the op selling the female for more than currently invested and buying a male. but what you are suggesting really has no logic to it.
 
this is kind of a tough one, but if it were me I would keep the female and ask for half of the vet bills.... and thats just because the shipper KNOWS BETTER than to ship in those temps and 2 you probably can find a nice black locally or switch your plans and trade the black female out for a MUCH nice male again locally and you can still breed him AFTER quarantine.... I know odd but hey who complains about getting a female ball for the price of a male??
 
Everyone is guessing at prices.

The male black pastel was $250.00

a similar size female is worth $600.00 if you can find one.

If it is not the sex she bought I want it back and I will send her the male she paid for. and of course I will cover the shipping costs.
 
I think in a peer to peer transaction you want what is best for both parties and for everything to be fair. Unfortunately in business that is not how it always works. Sometimes you have to take a loss to make a gain.

From a business stand point if I make a mistake I will bend over backward to make it right. In this case Ed's mistake has caused his customer quite a bit. She does not have the male she needed for breeding this season and potentially causing her the loss of a clutch.

In this case I would let her keep the snakes (since she wants them) pay/refund some towards the medical bills and offer her a very good deal on one of my animals (within reason) when they can be shipped. He may initially lose money to begin with but if she is satisfied and then very happy with the next animal she may become a repeat customer. Repeat customers will refer others etc... so in the long run a win win for both. It's all about customer service. Granted some (not saying OP) you can't make happy but a majority of people are gracious when you own up to your mistakes and often times will deal with you again. Just my opinion
 
hum, i am on some pain meds for the pulled musle down the left side of my torso. but i dont under stand any if that? if Nicole paid 300 for the male how much do females go for? say 450. (i have no clue i deal with bearded dragons). so now she under paid for a snake? and she would owe ed 150, right? but then Nicole has vet bills into the animals, right? so Instead of her paying for the rest of the snake that was mis sexed. she can re-sell it not having to worry if she is getting another snake with parasites. and gain the money she spent for the snake ( 300 ) and extra money ( since its a girl she will get more) so that would cover the vet bill.
Brian who do you not understand??
 
Ed Clark said:
I shipped on the day requested. if her temps were so far below anything safe she should have had me hold them until it was warmer.
Click to expand...

I guess I care about the welfare of the animals MORE than you do.

I always check the temps on the receiving end or even at the hub which for me is usually Atlanta. These snakes should not have been shipped with these temps on both ends.
:angry:
 
dragonluver83 said:
hum, i am on some pain meds for the pulled musle down the left side of my torso. but i dont under stand any if that? if Nicole paid 300 for the male how much do females go for? say 450. (i have no clue i deal with bearded dragons). so now she under paid for a snake? and she would owe ed 150, right? but then Nicole has vet bills into the animals, right? so Instead of her paying for the rest of the snake that was mis sexed. she can re-sell it not having to worry if she is getting another snake with parasites. and gain the money she spent for the snake ( 300 ) and extra money ( since its a girl she will get more) so that would cover the vet bill.
Brian who do you not understand??
Click to expand...


Sorry didnt mean to quote you both. it was Christines post that didnt quite make sense.

i honestly think that the OP, considering she has refused to ship the female back to ed, could be offered 25% off of a male and be happy. Though, considering she has refused to ship the female back, ed would not be obligated under his TOS to even do that much. I would see it as good business to at least offer a discount on a male. But she deffinately does not deserve to get 1 female black pastel, 1 female ch normal, and a black pastel male for the cost of 1 male. That is not a legitimate outcome.
 
I am confused as well. Ed is the one who made the mistake and miss sexed the snake. That one is on him he takes the loss.
 
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