Ed Clark,don't buy frogs from him!

[pfan151]

What kind of water did you use in the enclosure?

 

[K412]

You were expecting Ed to give you money back for the frog, and necro(which may not have even been worth having done, for accuracy reasons?)
He honored the TOS by sending out a replacement frog after the first one died. This frog arrived alive, done deal! So you do hold him accountable, and would like him to honor his guarantee because he stated to another dissatisfied customer that if an acute death took place and was not the customers fault that he would honor his guarantee.
However, He does feel that the death of this frog was the customers fault. Is it really "the moral thing to do" for a seller to continue to ship out free animals at his/her own expense until the customer learns how to keep them alive? No comment on this one. No comment on this one either. Well, if you would not accept another replacement animal from him(which would be over and above anything that should be expected from him at this point,) and don't expect to be refunded monetarily because he has honored his live arrival guarantee, there is no way for Ed to compensate you or make this right with you. Not that he actually owes you anything, or needs to make anything right in this case, but there is nothing he can do not to have a dissatisfied customer. I guess this is just a case of "you can't please all the people, all the time."

I still agree with Bobby(Varnyard,) that the pictures of the living frog and the one of the dead frog appear to be different animals. It also does not appear that Kelly ever changed the soaking wet paper towels like she said she did. Maybe, I have just been hanging out on the BOI too much though.

Ed, even though you handled this sale as professionally as anybody could, and the frog that arrived alive appears to be healthy, it probably would not hurt to get a few of your frogs checked out just to make sure they don't have Septic problems.

Again, if the pictures do not look the same it's because of the shed rests on hera and the secretions in between.
I do not have the desire to go out of my way financially and in my typical time constraints to find a way to make Ed look bad.
The purpose of this thread is to advise the public about his business practices.
Yes, when I got the results back and found out she was sick I was angry. I do feel like he owes me my money back BUT I am aware that no contractual aggreement was made and he honored the live arrival guarantee only. I know that I won't see that money or so much as an apology for ignoring me completely for almost a week.
I do not feel that he is at all professional or has the common courtesy to respond to questions from customers. I cannot imagine going into a store and having the manager turn their back and refuse to speak to a customer. It is easier to do online.
I will not purchase an animal online from anyone because this is my lesson learned and as stated I don't make the same mistake twice.
This is to help other people.
I know that you cannot satisfy all of the people all of the time, I don't expect that at all. I did expect human decency, not name calling.

 

[K412]

What kind of water did you use in the enclosure?

Dechlorinated tap water, reptisafe.

 

[K412]

I also dont agree with asking him to pay for the necropsy..

If you take a look at my new post here, ed replaced a frog of mine that got banged up during shipping. I dont believe he is trying to scam you out of a frog in anyway.

Matt, did you ask your parents about testing the injured frog that you got from Ed?
Did you specifically ask for an uninjured ornate?
Did you freeze the first one like Ed suggested you should?

 

[deborahbroadus]

That sarcastic statement shows you know nothing about selling and shipping amphibians!

Most will offer no guarantees at all, I will guarantee live arrival and have replaced many frogs that die in transit.

The most important thing a new frog owner should do is tons of research before they purchase a frog, a person like that will almost always be successful in keeping a frog.

Kelly Brown on the other hand chose to do her research after that frog was sitting in a bad environment.

Scroll back and read where she said she was trying to TONG feed a tree frog with pieces of worms!

Did I miss something? I coulda sworn that some of the dates on the emails that you posted had earlier dates than the arrival of the animal?

 

[AF Exotics]

This popped up on another forum,one that Kelly had posted a link to on a previous post.Poses some interesting questions.I do believe Ed honored his TOS,but it appears that all is not well with that frog,previous to her receiving it.This would lend itself to the idea that maybe she receive another frog,or a refund for the frog alone.It was her idea to do the necropsy,but some communication from Ed would've helped,because he clearly admits he received her PM's and emails.
Just my humble opinion.I also agree that frogs are very delicate and it is a shame because they are beautiful creatures.I think the hobby will learn more about some of these pathogens as they become more widespread in both the wild and in captive populations.I do have some primary experience with this as an importer.I would be very concerned if I were Ed and any others who received frogs from that group


Jay Willis
Internet>Frogs


Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 2588
Location: The Mouse House!
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I said I was going to stay out of this, but sence it's turning into a pissing contest, I went ahead and did a little snooping in the necorpsy!

I took a copy of the report that K412 posted and sent it to My contact at the zoo to see what He thought. We he's more of a reptile guy, so He send it to "Jen" which happens to be the top herpetologist in the country right now.

Heres what the returned e-mail said!

Hey Jay, Jen looked the results over and came up with hepatitis as the main problem; many of the other comments indicate secondary problems that are common to hepatitis.

This is easy to pass on to the rest of your collection and should be treated as highly contagious.

Hope it had been quarantined or the entire collection is susceptible, once they have it not much you can do, it can be detected with x-rays but is expensive.

Good luck



Nick Clark, Senior Reptile Keeper

Central Florida Zoo

P.O. Box 470409

Lake Monroe, Fl. 32747

So what it comes down to is Someone has got alot of work ahead of them.

If it came from PetSmart, they would have pulled all their frogs off the shelf by now, but if it's Ed's, God help anyone who got a frog from him sence then.
_________________

 

[Critterfarm]

Why wouldn't they let you post their name? Why would it even be a factor? I would think (yeah, I have been wrong before, but I will STILL bring up issues that I have a problem with) that if you made a major sale like that it would be in your favor to be able to name drop and you would not need to ask permission.

For example, if I made a sale to a major BP breeder, you betcha I would advertise it..it's good rep points. I wouldn't know of any buyer that would not let the seller use their name as a "previous" customer reference.

Deborah - I have a few zoos and nature centers that I supply with inverts as well as some of the more exotic frogs, as they can't find the time or manpower to breed them in house. There is a lot of work getting some species to breed, and it's all very easy, but very time consuming. All of them have asked for confidentiality so it doesn't appear that they are unable to breed them themselves.

Since I'm posting anyway here's my .02 -
Frog arrived outwardly healthy and alive. Ed is not at fault in any way. This time.

Damp enclosure didn't kill it. It's a shame, but sometimes frogs just die without any outward signs. As for the parasite load/bacterial load issues, they could very well be in the normal range for a two week dead frog - refrigerated or not - only an amphibian specialists would know for sure, as even the average herp vet is mostly clueless when dealing with 'phibs.

 

[deborahbroadus]

This popped up on another forum,one that Kelly had posted a link to on a previous post.Poses some interesting questions.I do believe Ed honored his TOS,but it appears that all is not well with that frog,previous to her receiving it.This would lend itself to the idea that maybe she receive another frog,or a refund for the frog alone.It was her idea to do the necropsy,but some communication from Ed would've helped,because he clearly admits he received her PM's and emails.
Just my humble opinion.I also agree that frogs are very delicate and it is a shame because they are beautiful creatures.I think the hobby will learn more about some of these pathogens as they become more widespread in both the wild and in captive populations.I do have some primary experience with this as an importer.I would be very concerned if I were Ed and any others who received frogs from that group


Jay Willis
Internet>Frogs


Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 2588
Location: The Mouse House!
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I said I was going to stay out of this, but sence it's turning into a pissing contest, I went ahead and did a little snooping in the necorpsy!

I took a copy of the report that K412 posted and sent it to My contact at the zoo to see what He thought. We he's more of a reptile guy, so He send it to "Jen" which happens to be the top herpetologist in the country right now.

Heres what the returned e-mail said!

Hey Jay, Jen looked the results over and came up with hepatitis as the main problem; many of the other comments indicate secondary problems that are common to hepatitis.

This is easy to pass on to the rest of your collection and should be treated as highly contagious.

Hope it had been quarantined or the entire collection is susceptible, once they have it not much you can do, it can be detected with x-rays but is expensive.

Good luck



Nick Clark, Senior Reptile Keeper

Central Florida Zoo

P.O. Box 470409

Lake Monroe, Fl. 32747

So what it comes down to is Someone has got alot of work ahead of them.

If it came from PetSmart, they would have pulled all their frogs off the shelf by now, but if it's Ed's, God help anyone who got a frog from him sence then.
_________________

Maybe not...if Ed posts the name of the Zoo that did all the tests on the frogs that he sold them and those tests came back clear.

.........Waiting for him to get permission to post the name so someone can call and inquire.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Deborah - I have a few zoos and nature centers that I supply with inverts as well as some of the more exotic frogs, as they can't find the time or manpower to breed them in house. There is a lot of work getting some species to breed, and it's all very easy, but very time consuming. All of them have asked for confidentiality so it doesn't appear that they are unable to breed them themselves.
Since I'm posting anyway here's my .02 -
Frog arrived outwardly healthy and alive. Ed is not at fault in any way. This time.

Damp enclosure didn't kill it. It's a shame, but sometimes frogs just die without any outward signs. As for the parasite load/bacterial load issues, they could very well be in the normal range for a two week dead frog - refrigerated or not - only an amphibian specialists would know for sure, as even the average herp vet is mostly clueless when dealing with 'phibs.

Ok thanks!

 

[Goblinmatt]

Matt, did you ask your parents about testing the injured frog that you got from Ed?
Did you specifically ask for an uninjured ornate?
Did you freeze the first one like Ed suggested you should?

What does testing the injured frog have to do with anything? I never seriously considered bringing it to the vet due to the cost. And asking my parents? Im 18 and they could care less.


The leg would of been very easy to notice, even if the only time you saw it was when it was being packaged. Why would he go through the trouble of sending me a frog he knew was bad if he exchanged it with no problem?

 

[David Scarboro]

What does testing the injured frog have to do with anything? I never seriously considered bringing it to the vet due to the cost. And asking my parents? Im 18 and they could care less.


The leg would of been very easy to notice, even if the only time you saw it was when it was being packaged. Why would he go through the trouble of sending me a frog he knew was bad if he exchanged it with no problem?

Matt, If you will take the time to go back and read the many other posts about Ed, you will see that he has an ongoing problem with husbandry and truthfulness. He has been caught in many lies, and he has proved that he will slip behind you and say anything to take the heat off of his sorry behind. Again, take the time to read the previous threads before you jump in with both feet. I'm glad that you got what you wanted, many people haven't.

 

[David Scarboro]

Yes, they were sent to a major zoo and they rave about how nice they are.

They were Qt and tested repeatedly by the staff of vets at that zoo and are on display in their permanant collection in the reptile house and in the education dept.

Dan Scolaro said almost exactly the same thing. He also didn't name the "major zoo". There must be a new chapter in the scammers handbook!

 

[K412]

What does testing the injured frog have to do with anything? I never seriously considered bringing it to the vet due to the cost. And asking my parents? Im 18 and they could care less.


The leg would of been very easy to notice, even if the only time you saw it was when it was being packaged. Why would he go through the trouble of sending me a frog he knew was bad if he exchanged it with no problem?

My apologies, I got you mixed up with the 14 year old from fatfrogs.
Glad that you were on the list of the ones that he chose to compensate.

 

[Goblinmatt]

My apologies, I got you mixed up with the 14 year old from fatfrogs.
Glad that you were on the list of the ones that he chose to compensate.

No problem.

And I know others have had issues with ed but I haven't found the time to go through the 1000 posts So I really cant comment on that.

If it means anything, I provided a ton of (crappy) photos and videos a few hours after recieving the frog.

 

[pcrooker]

Devil's advocate

Do we have any proof from the "zoo" Ed is referring to that the related frogs have been received and are healthy?

 

[deborahbroadus]

Do we have any proof from the "zoo" Ed is referring to that the related frogs have been received and are healthy?

Apparently he has an "out" and can now claim that the "zoo" won't give him permission (it might even be true). My opinion is: he's going to let it slip to the back burners.

Actually, there's not much we can really do. He did follow the TOS; the animal arrived live...whether or not he's spreading sick animals again and hiding behind the TOS that only guarantees live arrival (I have been told it's common in the frog trade) is anyone's guess.

Apparently Ed has now found his "niche." These animals, frogs, die at the "drop of a hat for no apparent reason".

 

[varnyard]

I keep an open mind, and I am allowed to change my mind as I reserve that right. Ed, was this the condition of this frog when you shipped it out? Judging by these pictures he is not healthy at all, care to explain Ed?

 

[pcrooker]

Which is why I asked..

Not that it would impact the situation, as the frog has died. I agree that the TOS were for live delivery which was clearly met. I feel badly that the purchaser may have received an ill pet, which was or was not known by the seller - but that is irrelevant. I would like to know if the "zoo" that supposedly received the siblings of this frong has provided verification that their animals are healthy. It doesn't excuse poor husbandry, or an ill educated buyer, however Ed said that the "Zoo" has had no probelms with their animals... So I respecfully ask that there be verificaion of this.

Patty Crooker

 

[deborahbroadus]

Not that it would impact the situation, as the frog has died. I agree that the TOS were for live delivery which was clearly met. I feel badly that the purchaser may have received an ill pet, which was or was not known by the seller - but that is irrelevant. I would like to know if the "zoo" that supposedly received the siblings of this frong has provided verification that their animals are healthy. It doesn't excuse poor husbandry, or an ill educated buyer, however Ed said that the "Zoo" has had no probelms with their animals... So I respecfully ask that there be verificaion of this.

Patty Crooker

We are still waiting for Ed to get permission, to post the name. Lacking that, he should at least be able to get some verification that the animals from him (showing his name) were tested..even if he has to blank out the Zoo's name.

 

[AF Exotics]

Good point Bobby and good question Patty C. I will say this.I am what I would call a novice when it comes to frog husbandry.What I have learned in the past 3-4 years of importing is that there is a great concern in the amphibian world of the disastrous impact of Chytrid.

It is pretty much global,and is probably in quite a few captive environments.There is a small dedicated group of people(from scientific institutions and herpetoculture)who have made great progress with some cutting edge treatments.They have thus far been able to hold at bay,and in some cases eradicate the fungus entirely from control groups that were purposely infected on more than one occasion.

I believe that some of this work,will be vital in saving some species from extinction in the wild,or at least preserving them to be at least kept in zoos and other institutions.Where this ties in to this thread is that maybe when something goes wrong,better to just be honest and come clean,rather than try to cast a shadow on someone to preserve self.Maybe it was an outwardly appearing animal to Ed and he thought he was doing the right thing.Maybe,but he has a track record that suggests otherwise,and now his behavior has only solidified his all too familiar act when problems arise.

I had problems with frogs too,but when one of my customers came to me and said that they were seeing some things that concerned them,I took them at their word for it,and asked what do they suggest we do.They enlisted the help of a great young herpetologist and their own findings and developed this treatment which is making great strides.The exporter even got on board and is supplying water samples for testing.No secrets,just some straight transparency to try to fix the problem,not fix blame on to someone else.Maybe this might hit home,maybe not??? My 02.Marcus.