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Info ED CLARK FLIPPING MY DRAGONS

Ed Clark said:
Josh tell me why you are so adverse to flippers?

When we met you asked me if I needed any baby hypo boas that you could run back to the shop and get me some. I asked you how much you replied $50.00 each I said no thanks that I have been picking them up for $25.00 each. you replied that you paid $28.00-$30.00 each for them.were you flipping hypo boas?

What did you mean by your shop? do you own a pet shop or did you mean a building full of animals?

You also mentioned that you were going to do the HDG show and you would bring a load of animals there to sell. were you flipping those animals?

I asked you about genetics,hatch dates and other info on the 5 dragons I bought, you promised to send me all that information when you got home...you sent nothing and were unavailable by phone yet prior to taking my money you answered the phone every time I called.I ask you once again to send me the info on those dragons as you said you would.

Josh I know that you and your brother are flipping loads of animals, don't really matter to me all I ask is to do what you say you are going to do. send me the hatch dates and genetic info on those dragons.
Click to expand...


So apparently you know me and my brother very well....cuz were flipping loads of animals! You obviously don't know me so stop the speculation. How many post have made since my join date? I do this as a hobby mainly although it supplements my income.

As for the boas... Ask mr Moore how long I've had them, I purchased the package from him. Buying something fo 30$ and selling for 50$ 3 months later is hardly flipping!

The animals I was bringing HDG show. Were all the rest of my dragons and the boas... Along with a few geckos..

Clearly you didn't read my earlier post I'm on vacation! I'm not dodging anyones questions. I have better things to do than hover over this thread.

To Tom Clarke I was happy with the price thinking they were going to a good breeding program... It's the fact he lied is the kicker I would have given him a 25% discount not 50%.

I do wholesale as well but I sell them as babies and it is expected they will be sold for double but not under false pretense, I don't wholesale adults..... Unless they go to breeders. It appears that you are not a breeder do why should you get wholesale prices to turn around and rape people on prices. I sell all my animals at the lowest price I can afford I feel that people are more willing to buy and are happier.
 
I agree. Yes, you gave him a more than reasonable deal, he spent a nice chunk of money, and now has your animals and there is nothing you can do about it.

I have never dealt with Ed, but I am aware of his dealings, after reading the BOI and through others opinions from my fellow herpers around me. He bought them under a DECEPTION, a hypocritical deception. Said one thing and did another, under false statements to you.

BUT, in this business, it is expected. All you can do is call him out on it. As stated before by another member, he got them cheap to resell, or he got them and didnt like them in person. Regardless, your deal has been completed, and your beardies are now his. Nothing you can do, which sucks. I would be upset as well, especially when you care about the animals, not just treat them as a business asset.
 
Personally what Ed did I feel is wrong. He did kinda seem to mislead the OP. What bothers me the most is that he only kept them for 2 weeks. and hopefully were quarintined for those 2 weeks which we all know is not long enough. Knowing just that info I would never buy from him.

I for one, buy wholesale from local breeders. Then come here to sell them. Typically I will buy hatchlings around 1-2 weeks old then resell at around 2 months of age. Guys like Ed Clark and the ever so hated Dan Scolaro have done enough business over the years that bad guy threads and all the other reasons really don't effect them, and the fact that kingsnake wont ban anyone whos a paying customer. Sad but true. Im sure Ed could really care less about this thread or any of the others he is mentioned in.
 
BurkeBrosExotics said:
So apparently you know me and my brother very well....cuz were flipping loads of animals! You obviously don't know me so stop the speculation. How many post have made since my join date? I do this as a hobby mainly although it supplements my income.
Click to expand...

THIS is the EXACT SAME thing ed said about me when we had a problem. He said I was flipping loads of dragons.

This is typical ed clark. The next thing you know, hes going to be talking about how you were behind on rent and your fridge was empty. :rofl:



BurkeBrosExotics said:
To Tom Clarke I was happy with the price thinking they were going to a good breeding program... It's the fact he lied is the kicker I would have given him a 25% discount not 50%.
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I know what you mean. ed came to my home and has picked babies and juvie's up saying he was going to keep them for breeding only to sell to someone else. Just like that leatherback him and nicole fought over was a "holdback" only to get sent to her. Then after he fought so much to get the animal back from her, He posted him for sale. Its sad. Then again, ed is sad.
 
I read this thread as poor negotiating skills by the seller and now he has sour grapes seeing that he lost out on profit. I am a reptile hobbyist. I don't have the means to sell out individual babies, so I sell my clutches to those who are willing and able to sell out individually. Do I lose out on quite a bit of potential profit? Of course, but I am not sour about it. You can't sell something with under the pretense that the buyer is going to do something specific with your product unless you agree to a contract. I have seen this with dogs and contracts that state sellers can repossess dogs if they are not properly cared for. I think the seller needs to just learn from this. If he feels wronged then he can use this in the future. I don't know either party, but I read this thread as someone having second thoughts after determining they didn't negotiate to their liking.

Matthew Mayo
 
Matt u obviously didnt read the whole thread... I am fine with the price I sold them for if he was breeding them. If he had planned on selling them, the discount would not have been as great. He "scammed me" that's all there is to it, there is nothing I can do but inform others... This is not a bad guy thread it's an info thread. Am I mad, hell yes! It happens so I'm moving on. This is the only thing I can do... And thanks for your concern!
 
BurkeBrosExotics said:
. He "scammed me" that's all there is to it, there is nothing I can do but inform others... This is not a bad guy thread it's an info thread.
Click to expand...

If he scammed you, why is it not a bad guy thread?



Perhaps I missed your answer:


You said in writing, that reselling at two weeks is wrong but two months is right. Could you please specify exactly which day wrong morphs into right? Is it three weeks? Four weeks and one day? When?
 
Unless you have a written or other legal form of contract you can't stipulate how a buyer utilizes a product. Once the transaction takes place both sides are free from any intervention from the other party. It may not be to your liking, but that is how it works. It wouldn't matter if he bought them saying he was going to breed them and then turned around the next day and used them as feeders. That is his perogative. I understand you based your pricing on what you assumed, but you can't do that.
 
"You said in writing, that reselling at two weeks is wrong but two months is right. Could you please specify exactly which day wrong morphs into right? Is it three weeks? Four weeks and one day? When?"

To Lucille at least after a couple months he has properly qt them and fed them and put time into them and if you r quoting me I didn't say it was right I said it could be explained... Ie: I fell on hard times, or I was going in a different direction, or what ever the reason: two weeks looks like intent to flip. You must be a friend of Ed cuz you are really pushy sounding...and seem upset!
 
From what I have gathered reading this (and please correct me if I am wrong), it doesn't sound like the OP made this thread because Ed is charging more, or that he flipped them. That information was supporting evidence to the claim that he was swindled.

I think this thread serves a good purpose because if this is what Ed really did, then the next person will be armed to make the decision on whether to believe him or not.
 
BurkeBrosExotics said:
You must be a friend of Ed cuz you are really pushy sounding...
Click to expand...

Nah, I'm just a pushy broad. I'd do the same for you if I thought I needed to.
I detect a lot of ambivalence in this thread, even from you. You did not in make it a bad guy thread, you made it an info thread, so that people could see the info and form their own opinions, which I did. Don't get your panties in a wad just because your opinion and mine differ.

BTW, if you look back, I've flayed Ed in a couple threads where I thought it was deserved.
 
BurkeBrosExotics said:
"You said in writing, that reselling at two weeks is wrong but two months is right. Could you please specify exactly which day wrong morphs into right? Is it three weeks? Four weeks and one day? When?"

To Lucille at least after a couple months he has properly qt them and fed them and put time into them and if you r quoting me I didn't say it was right I said it could be explained... Ie: I fell on hard times, or I was going in a different direction, or what ever the reason: two weeks looks like intent to flip. You must be a friend of Ed cuz you are really pushy sounding...and seem upset!
Click to expand...

So let me get this straight.....
You sold your dragons to a customer. Now the dragons are the customers dragons, not yours. And now he is selling HIS dragons, and your mad?

He BOUGHT them from you, he can do whatever he wants with them....sell them, breed them, let them run free throughout his house, whatever he likes, since they are HIS.
 
Some of you may be overlooking the fact that Mr. Ed deceived the seller in order to obtain the animals. This is called Thief by Deception: http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/

I do not think the OP cares that Ed is charging more..but he may be feeling betrayed and however it's colored, what Ed did is wrong imo (been there, done that).
 
deborahbroadus said:
Some of you may be overlooking the fact that Mr. Ed deceived the seller in order to obtain the animals.
Click to expand...
Could you link the post where this happened? Ed bought them, told the seller one thing, then did another thing. In order to be theft by deception we would have to prove his intentions at the time of purchase.
If he bought them and changed his mind and decided to sell them all, there would be no deception.
 
deborahbroadus said:
Some of you may be overlooking the fact that Mr. Ed deceived the seller in order to obtain the animals. This is called Thief by Deception: http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/theft-by-deception/

I do not think the OP cares that Ed is charging more..but he may be feeling betrayed and however it's colored, what Ed did is wrong imo (been there, done that).
Click to expand...

I disagree. Read the exception to (1) on the definitioin of Theft by Deception. I don't believe this situation is Theft by Deception.

The seller was willing to sell at a certain price and the buyer was willing to buy at a certain price. Both had reasons for why the came to their figure. After it is over, it is over.

It would be like me selling a clutch of 20 python neonates to a business who sells them out individually, but the business decided to keep a few for their own enjoyment. I sold them believeing they would be resold, but that doesn't have anything to do with why I agreed to my selling price. I agreed to the selling price because that was the amount I was willing to let them go for. I wouldn't throw the business under the bus stating they defrauded me because they kept two babies instead of selling.
 
Lucille, Just going off the gist of the OP's orginal post quoted below (in bold). In this case, because there's no paper trail (I don't think) it would not help the seller/op...but it doesn't make what was done smell any better.

BurkeBrosExotics said:
My name is Josh Burke with BurkeBrosExotics a couple weeks ago I was contacted by Ed Clark in response to my ad I posted. He said he was interested in purchasing a few dragons. He said he was looking to get some to breed due to him selling off his last year. I gave home almost a 50% discount 950$ for 5 dragons that I had listed for a total of 1600$. He said he may sell one to recoup some of his losses which is understandable. Within a week he had posted 4 of the 5 I sold him... And selling some at double to triple of my original asking price not what I sold them to him for. I am getting out of breeding dragons but I did not have to sell them I just figured they were going into a breeding program so they would be better off than with Joe Shmo, I gave him a extreme discount under the impresion he was a reputable breeder and would keep and breed them. Since he has more rep on here I'm sure I will get banned or slandered for this but I feel that people should know the truth! I have sent him an email regarding this.

I sold him
.1 red pastel leather het trans (I listed for 300) he posted for 600$ I sold to him for 190$
.2 Cawley x hypotang ( I listed for 250 and 300) he posted for 480$ea I sold to him for 190$ ea.
.1 Livingston red ( I listed for 250$) he posted for 280$ the least markup I sold for 190$
.1 orange leather double het (I listed for 350) he has not posted it yet. I sold for 190$

All of my list prices were a deal to begin with! I am extremely upset with this transaction. I just sent an email to him, I was not waiting for a response back I was posting this thread no matter the explanation.
Click to expand...
 
Lucille,

If you tell me at the time of purchase that you intend to breed them. THAT is your intent. Changing your mind later is a cop out excuse, imo. I would be more liable to believe he "changed his mind later" if there was not such a quick turn over.

lucille said:
Could you link the post where this happened? Ed bought them, told the seller one thing, then did another thing. In order to be theft by deception we would have to prove his intentions at the time of purchase.
If he bought them and changed his mind and decided to sell them all, there would be no deception.
Click to expand...
 
Reading his orginal post, he wasn't "willing to sell at a certain price" He gave Ed a big discount based on what ED indicated were his intentions?

full_metal97 said:
I disagree. Read the exception to (1) on the definitioin of Theft by Deception. I don't believe this situation is Theft by Deception.

The seller was willing to sell at a certain price and the buyer was willing to buy at a certain price. Both had reasons for why the came to their figure. After it is over, it is over.

It would be like me selling a clutch of 20 python neonates to a business who sells them out individually, but the business decided to keep a few for their own enjoyment. I sold them believeing they would be resold, but that doesn't have anything to do with why I agreed to my selling price. I agreed to the selling price because that was the amount I was willing to let them go for. I wouldn't throw the business under the bus stating they defrauded me because they kept two babies instead of selling.
Click to expand...
 
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