ed clark- liar, theif, bad guy- will you answer questions NOW?

[shrap]

Cat,

Those of us that see Ed Clark what he is already knows and sees it.

Unfortunately, all of those that still dont see it never will. And no amount of rehashing his history is going to change the minds of those that see it nor those that dont. And even more tragic, it aint going to nudge Ed to better himself.

I personally just dont care anymore. Not about Ed, TSE or any of the other scammers. Nothing ever comes of busting these people anyway. No one ever gets arrested or punished for their crimes. The reptile community itself seems to look the other way more often than not as well. So as far as I am concerned this is all nothing more than a big charade. People picking and choosing who they want to apply ethics and standards to instead of applying it evenly across the board.

For most people it quit being about raising the bar and wanting something better a long time ago. It has evolved into nothing more than a bunch of personal agendas. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[Cat_72]

You know Sammy....unfortunately, you are probably correct, as usual.

I obviously can't say that I don't care, it just gets me that there are those of us who try so hard to do everything right, to treat our customers with respect, to be completely honest in the representation of our animals, and take pride in producing the best animals we can. And then there's those that can tell lie after lie, and people still don't get it, or choose to look the other way. If someone makes a mistake, stand up and take responsibility for that mistake.

It just never ceases to amaze me, why so many folks seem to care so little about honesty and integrity these days. I just wasn't brought up that way.

Anyhoo, point taken, Sammy. Thanks.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Anyways, one of the great pacifists of the past century said "You have to be the change you wish to see in the world". If by calling people names and/or belittling them anyone feels better about himself, he or she is the one with a problem. If you get all worked out and mad at a drunk, whose the one with a problem, the drunk or you? Paying more attention to ones own behavior will lead to improvements in the world around you. It's not that everyone around you will change, but you will be focusing in the good rather than the bad. And what you think about expands, think scarcity and you'll have it, think that you are rich enough and you'll be, think the world is full of scammers and you will add one more to the list daily. The harder one tries to change people the more resistance one creates. We have ample examples of this going all over the world right now, why would this "microcosmos" be any different? Make peace with yourself first before trying to change everyone else.

 

[kmurphy]

For most people it quit being about raising the bar and wanting something better a long time ago. It has evolved into nothing more than a bunch of personal agendas. Thanks but no thanks.

Sammy, I would agree with "many" or "some", but not most. I believe most people want to be able to trust who they are dealing with and appreciate an avenue available to them to post, and read about, good and bad deals.

 

[kmurphy]

If by calling people names and/or belittling them anyone feels better about himself, he or she is the one with a problem.

I agree Dan. My opinion is that the name caller has a weak argument and feels the need to bolster it by name calling. Often it is just to get a reaction from the subject of the post and usually doesn't do any good except add a half dozen off topic posts to the thread.

 

[shrap]

It just never ceases to amaze me, why so many folks seem to care so little about honesty and integrity these days. I just wasn't brought up that way.

Same here, Cat. Same here.

Sammy, I would agree with "many" or "some", but not most.

"Many", "Some", "Most"...... pick one. Whichever you choose it is still too many.

 

[cka]

JMHO I would like to see a lot less of the "gay Jedi" type comments, not just here in regards to Mr Clark but in general. There seems to be a group of "BOI fanatics" that just wait for bad guy threads to inject their own brand of "humor", and it's not funny (well Ok, some of it is so I guess i'm guilty by "laugh association") and has ZERO to do with whatever the thread is discussing. If the BOI is to maintain any kind of credibility amongst the community the funny little comments, sly asides etc. really needs to be curtailed; they do NADA to help the BOI's purpose. It's real easy to be a smart@ss behind a keyboard...

I've gathered from this 22 page mess that Mr Clark is guilty of poor quarantine methods and short term memory loss. I can kinda understand confusing ch ball pythons with something you've bred yourself, especially if you are moving lots of different bp's. Not excusing it, but I can see it. Thats a big "benefit of a doubt" there too. LOTS of people "drop ship" or "resell" for other folks, I don't see where he should castigated for it (if he is), except for the misrepresentation. The gecko issue, well, thats different, From I've read there does sound like they were misrepresented and a simple yes or no, with compensation would go a long way to clearing it up. Going into a locked thread to change info posted is also a big no no; I'd like to see that function to be used ONLY by mods approved by Rich Z, and not something one should be able to do with a monetary contribution.

The issue about naming ch "morphs' was settled by a post Ralph Davis made years ago, not on this site. He broke it down by saying ALL "unusual" or "visually different" ball pythons are LONG GONE by the time they make it to the general public. The "Big Boys" in the industry, with the money and the contacts, snap them up long before you or I even see them, and the African companies involved are getting much smarter about picking out animals that may or may not be unusual. All the "looks like a harlequins" or "may be a granites" are just that; lookalikes. Not saying you can't get lucky, but if you are blowing 7, 8, a 1000 bucks on a "chance", well you get what you pay for, and caveat emptor to ya...

Maybe I need to go reread some of the different threads on Mr Clark, I may have missed something. I'd hate to be party to condoning a scammer's actions, but in the long list of out and out thieves exposed by the BOI "sleuths" (& here's an "attaboy" for the work done ) his transgressions don't add up, but thats JMHO and there is no room for ANY scammer, huckster, thief etc in our community. It's getting harder and harder to keep public opinion on our side to allow us to keep the animals we love.

Mr Clark, simply answer the questions. Hell I put in twenty minutes of typing, least you can do is spend the same responding. Just my two cents folks :*)

 

[AF Exotics]

Sometimes being right isn't the best thing,and Sammy,unfortunately you are right on point in your summation of all this.As Cat surmised,you still owe it to yourself and your customer to do the right thing,even if you lose financially in the short term,you still have your name.I had a situation not too long ago with some Chinese Herps I imported for some good people who are first friends,then customers second,long story short,massive die off after our terms expired,they had to eat it,so did I .I took from my pocket and the exporters because it wasnt fair to them,so we all lost,but I have a clear conscience,albeit sad over the loss of the animals.Sometimes we need to remember we can be in the other person's shoes real quick,and how do we want them to fit.

 

[snake5007]

If by calling people names and/or belittling them anyone feels better about himself, he or she is the one with a problem.

Calling Ed the names that describe him best don't do anything for me personally. A spade is a spade, afterall.

 

[Dragondad]

Anyways, one of the great pacifists of the past century said "You have to be the change you wish to see in the world". If by calling people names and/or belittling them anyone feels better about himself, he or she is the one with a problem.

As always Dan a great voice of reason in a sea of idoicy. Thank you for being here.

Paying more attention to ones own behavior will lead to improvements in the world around you. It's not that everyone around you will change, but you will be focusing in the good rather than the bad.

Logical statements to prove ones point are sufficient! Proving one is misrepresting, lying, or stealing is what the BOI was and is about. Is there some issue with Ed transactions? Is there an issue with how Ed delt with questions?

Either case doesnt warrant the personal attacks, name calling and general abuse he has taken. Or those that might support him. And frankly those that have persisted in this can stay banned or get banned as the case may be. IMO Since they contribute nothing to the the reality of truth, just persist in bring the site to their level.

 

[snake5007]

I agree Dan. My opinion is that the name caller has a weak argument and feels the need to bolster it by name calling. Often it is just to get a reaction from the subject of the post and usually doesn't do any good except add a half dozen off topic posts to the thread.

A weak argument? why not ask Emily and Daniel about this weak argument? I'm sure that they'd agree that the argument against Ed being a standup guy is weak, don't you?

 

[hhmoore]

I don't think that kmurphy was insinuating that their case was without merit - more that the name calling detracts from their argument, reducing it to a lower level.
Then again...Emily and Daniel weren't the one's calling names, now were they?

 

[kmurphy]

I don't think that kmurphy was insinuating that their case was without merit - more that the name calling detracts from their argument, reducing it to a lower level.

Thanks Harald, that's correct. I wasn't speaking of any particular thread. I was speaking about any post, on any thread, where the writer feels the need to resort to name calling. If your point is sound then the name calling is counter productive IMO.

 

[Seamus Haley]

I can kinda understand confusing ch ball pythons with something you've bred yourself, especially if you are moving lots of different bp's. Not excusing it, but I can see it. Thats a big "benefit of a doubt" there too. LOTS of people "drop ship" or "resell" for other folks, I don't see where he should castigated for it (if he is), except for the misrepresentation.

I really, really didn't want to comment on any of this again, but there's something I feel needs some clarification- not saying that Chris got it wrong, just that there's a situation that's been colored very strongly in a way that doesn't make much sense to me.

Emily contacted Ed and told him that some animals she bought from him almost a year earlier had tested postive for parasites after a recent fecal. Ed responds indicating that he'd check his records to see what he sold her.

That was thrown out there as an argument that he misrepresented the animals he sold to her, but the way I read it at the time and the way that it would most reasonabally be interpreted- even with my distaste for the guy and some of the things he has done- is that he didn't remember the details of an individual sale and was going to try and figure it out. Some people saw this as evidence that he lied when he told her he was selling CB animals, but I find it much more likely that he just doesn't remember the name or email address of every one of the hundreds of customers he has in a given year.

Emily's response contained a direct... threat is the only word I can really use... of a BOI thread, "You make a post saying your animals are filthy (because she had it for ten months without noticing a problem) or I[/] will." Then things all got very ugly very fast and it became impossible to sort out what was factual and what was not; there was no possible way to wade through it all and know for certain, with no possible room for any doubt or error, if Ed should have been condemned or exhonerated of each individual accusation of wrongdoing.

 

[shrap]

Sometimes being right isn't the best thing,and Sammy,unfortunately you are right on point in your summation of all this.As Cat surmised,you still owe it to yourself and your customer to do the right thing,

Oh I will never stop doing right by people. That is just who I am as a person. How I am built. I dont even have a choice in the matter really.

 

[shrap]

Emily's response contained a direct... threat is the only word I can really use... of a BOI thread, "You make a post saying your animals are filthy (because she had it for ten months without noticing a problem) or I[/] will."

That is certainly one way of interpreting it.

If I remember correctly Emily just wanted Ed to contact his customers so they could get their animals checked too.

Granted she may have been a bit premature in her request, but that is neither here nor there.

 

[AF Exotics]

No doubt Sammy you will.That was for the people that might see others as a means to an end,instead of them as an integral part of the customer/business relationship..

 

[Seamus Haley]

That is certainly one way of interpreting it.

If I remember correctly Emily just wanted Ed to contact his customers so they could get their animals checked too.

Granted she may have been a bit premature in her request, but that is neither here nor there.

i hope that you will take the initiative to issue a public alert, however, should you choose not to do so, i will post a warning so that people can take the appropriate action.

I'm not sure how someone can read that as anything other than a threat or an ultimatum. I believe the whole... premature... aspect is fairly central to the entire subject; she had an extremely poor grasp of parasite life cycles and transmission vectors and her ultimatum demanded a specific public action on his part, rather than discussing an appropriate course of action.

If nothing else though, I suppose that thread serves as an example of why it's important to have all pertinant information ordered and well presented when starting a thread. I was constantly reminded of a quote from a movie... "I've seen monkey shit fights at the zoo that were more organized than this." (Yeah yeah, it's profanity- I understand and I apologize, I just don't feel right paraphrasing direct quotations)

 

[David Reid]

I somewhat remember the original thread on Ed, but can someone refresh my memory on what the CHARGES are against Ed?

Dave

 

[Russ Bates]

HaHaHa

DAvid
See Page #1 for full charges. This reminds me of .......

If Pete and Repete were sitting on a fence and Pete fell off....who's left