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Enclosures by Design

Kris,

If they give you the contact information of the shipper, they can resolve the issue of the tracking number.

My office sends huge shipments UPS ground on a daily basis. Delivery rarely takes more than 5 business days, regardless of weight or distance.
 
Well I could be wrong but it sure looks like Alison & Sal strike again. Why is it that with every situation that arises with them there is a problem? This is getting ridiculous don't you think?
 
welll ...

seems like they have lived upto there reputation and possibly beyond there own expectations.But hey whos counting right? they obviously still have time to post there cages forsale in KS so seems like with all the trouble over this one deal they would make THIS there top priority to get fixed i mean it may be a inconceince to take the time to call there shipper for info OHH wait a darn minute thats THERE job to call and see whats wrong!! so i wonder what there excuse will be ....
 
Simply Amazing!

Remember when Allison said:
Before you want to go and try to rip apart something, try to get all the facts. This is NOT Precise Remodeling, this is NOT Upstate Exotics....this is for custom enclosures for snakes...hence the name CUSTOM SNAKE ENCLOSURES
You see it doesn't matter how many different businesses they open under different names...one thing remains consistant....
A lousy product and horrible customer service!
I'm still waiting to hear the assessment of this cage if it ever arrives but they look like pure garbage in the photos I've seen. Even if they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, it still wouldn't be worth having to deal with Upstate's customer service.

With all the great cage companies out there like Boaphile, Vision, Neodesha, and now with Moonstruck getting good reviews.....Why on earth would anyone give Enclosures by Design a chance???
 
By the way, my advice would be to contact your credit card and get the charges reversed.
If the cage eventually shows up, just write RETURN TO SENDER on it.
Then use your refund money to get a real cage.
Good luck,
Chris
 
Maybe Sal and Alison need to form another company, a business ethics consulting agency, to point out the errors of their ways? Then, they could form an accounting firm to sort out who owes money to whom with a very thorough audit of their books. Then, they could establish a public relations firm to make certain that everyone knew what their independent and totally unrelated companies had discovered about themselves????

I'm certain we would all be mightily convinced!










You may now wipe away the sarcasm, dripping from your screen, and continue your BOI browsings . . .
 
comon you dont even think that would work do you ?

Maybe Sal and Alison need to form another company, a business ethics consulting agency, to point out the errors of their ways?

lmao thats a OXYMORON



Then, they could form an accounting firm to sort out who owes money to whom with a very thorough audit of their books.

see above statement and insert here


Then, they could establish a public relations firm to make certain that everyone knew what their independent and totally unrelated companies had discovered about themselves????

see the above two statements and insert here

but from there track record i think they could do VERY well in politics... i mean promise the world and deliver stinky stuff in a bag!! that could be there campaign motto

If iwas going to give someone a tracking number for there (cage that doesnt exsist) i would atleast make sure it was at best a old tracking number that would show up!!when tracking it .
they really need to open there eyes to the whole this new company has dug them and jump in with both feet my 11 year old son has better buisness ethics then these two have and i KNOW he could build a better cage and even manage to make sure it got to where it was going and on time .... i would hate to see these two in a real buisness where they need to get things done on time and done righti think they would be under a pile of lawsuits starving for air......
 
funny bit of info

*Customers that return their Custom Snake Enclosures that are within our 7-day guarantee are responsible for return shipping charges. Enclosure must be returned in good shape, with all hardware and documents, in order to be eligible for a full refund. Customers who return enclosures outside of the 7-day period will charged a 35% restocking fee.




so now lets look at a few things here.

They do not specify when there 7 day period starts ?

There going to make you pay shipping back on there junk which from my experiences would probably cost for ground freight around $150+ due to the fact the unit will weigh around 90 lbs approx depending on thickness of melemine used.

then there going to charge you an additonal 35% for restocking fee!! of something they cant even prove they have ? by the way on $395.00 thats going to be $138.00 so by the time you realize by building this unit and placing animals in it to see how the cage holds up to the animal in it 7 days are gone so count on spending atleast round figures $190.00 to ship them there peice of crap back on top of the $395.00 you will have paid them for there junk

you paid for a 6 ft unit and 2- 3 ft units below that one all in one unit correct? so if you go long enough for the animal to make poo poo or pee pee in this cage for it to leak out of it and do what they say do you get back only about $200 IF you are lucky but from the looks of it they get there crap back and keep your cash to boot ... wonder who gets that same cage you send back?
 
Originally in an email to Kris from Upstate Exotics:
Paypal finally lifted the restricted access to our account today...I
will go ahead and refund you direct. All I ask is if paypal finally
does refund you through their financial department (since they're taking
so long) just send the additional $69 back to us.
Kris, I meant to ask you before....did you indeed receive this refund?
 
I would bet that cage is going to be a MAJOR pain in the butt to assemble. They are probably banking on the assumption that once you've assembled this thing you won't want to go through all the trouble of taking it back apart to ship it back.
Also, you're going to have to seal that cage with silicone or something to prevent the melamine from swelling which will make it even harder to take apart. You might as well just go to Home Depot and build your own cage with all the trouble this will be.

Melamine is a miserable choice as a cage material. It's heavy as hell and if the seams are not properly sealed it will swell and break down when it gets wet. It's an especially bad choice for a company that ships their product.

Don't wait on Upstate! Be proactive and contact Paypal or your credit card company ASAP!
 
thank you ....

i did not want to bearer of bad news ...
but that about sums it all up.

although melemine is a good product for straightness it is not all that good for being a product known for its ability to do well with moisture. The product at hand can be used in A PROPER ENVIROMENT to the task at hand its not known for its ability to absorb the use its going to be run through.as a cabinet builder its used HIGHLY in the trade but for its intended purpose its rather useless due to to the ability to utilize the tests put to it .

being a cage builder my self its one of my cheapest uses for the tasks while the cleaning can be easy in its earley stages in the long run its going to present problems. IMHO opinion for ease of use and ability to do so i will promote the use of plastics. as they are much more durable then the melemine at hand. and that you can take to the bank ......
 
just so ya know

they are readily posting on KS
wow since i have ya here ... how about explaning your postion with the person you have not yet providied a cage to or a refund to on the BOI... and yes as you would expect we know you are posting elsewhere so how about letting the owner of the fable cage be known to them what your plans are on getting this to them or there proper refund?????


sal&allison are we/you so stupid you dont think we herpers look into everyadd posted..
do the right thing here refund this person there fulllllllllllll refund and to save face id send him that cage for FREE if iwere you even though from pics you have posted you would more then likely get it back but hey .. be a good guy/gal for once


i will post what ever the reply is i get fromthem ... more then not it will be nothing
 
Re: Simply Amazing!

gila7150 said:
You see it doesn't matter how many different businesses they open under different names...one thing remains consistant....
A lousy product and horrible customer service!

Yup. A skunk by any other name still smells the same.

It really is ironic that when they were the "victim" they posted all the time in the elite thread. But now that they are again in the spotlight, they can not take a minute to respond. A fictitious tracking number is real good for the reputation too. Even if is was a "honest mistake," it is still very poor business practice to not proof read the e-mail to make sure the number is correct.
 
I'd like to thank everybody for their support in this situation. I still have not heard back from Sal and Allison about a valid tracking number. I first emailed them on Friday to ask why the number didin't function, and then again on Sunday. I received email back very late Sunday night that said they would talk to the shipper on Monday morning to get it straightened out. I haven't heard back siunce then, and I know they check this forum, so this shouldn't be news to anybody. At this point, I'm not sure what the status of my cage is, although it seems that if it shipped last thursday from New York and it's only going to eastern Ohio, I would have seen something by now. Anyway, I sent an email to Sal and Allison this morning with the following text:

QUOTE

So, what's going on with my cage? If you sent the thing out last
thursday, then the tracking number you gave me should work by now, and you've had more than enough time since monday to get in touch with the shipper to get that worked out. I need to know what the deal is here. At this point, I'm just completely unsatisfied with the situation, and would like to request the refund your site guarantees. Let me know how to work this out.

Thanks

Kris

QUOTE

For the folks that have suggested potential action on my part, I have some questions, and would love any advice you could give me.

First, my question about shipping to Sal and Allison in my original email was never answered. In the original correspondence, freight collect was mentioned as a shipping means, and I know I would have to pay for that at some point, but I'm not sure how that functions. Does that mean that I pay UPS on this end when the package arrives? If so, couldn't I just refuse to do so and the package would be returned? That would simplify the whole issue of return shipping, right?

As far as paypal goes, I'm not sure what my options are. I did an instant transfer from my bank account rather than using a credit card, so I'm pretty sure that I can't protest the charge through a credit card company, although I do have a visa check card linked to my account. What options does paypal give me?

I hope it never comes down to either of these options, and Sal and Allison will step forward to take responsibility for recent events. I probably should have taken the full refund when it was previously offered, but I like to think I'm pretty reasonable about things, and the partial refund was more than sufficient at the time as a gesture that things were being taken care of on that end. Apparently that was naive of me, although I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully my continued emails and posts to this forum will elicit a reponse.

Thanks for your time.

Kris
 
I would immediately file a complaint with paypal for non-delivery of goods. It has to be filed with in 30 days pf payment so do not delay. Also, keep all e-mails between you and them including the ones you have sent with no response.

Buyer Compaint Process
 
Kris.....

i may be wrong but i do not think you can reverse charges from a bank checking card ( i hope i am wrong on this for your sake)

as far as freight collect charges goes they would depending on type of service be it COD or not would require you to pay upfront for the package. But they can also bill you for it aswell IF it does show up i would simply deny the package and any associated charges and DEMAND that the sorry bags of human exciment refund you IN FULL its totally senseless what you have had to go through with these clowns for there product UNDER no means should you as a PAYING customer had to deal with the blatent disregard for your inquires as to there short commings on there end of something they have so addimently tried to enforce of there " upstanding name ".
Sal & allison when you read this you should be sadly ashamed of how you have treated Kris from start to finish you have lied to him over and over about the status of his product he paid you without a hesitation and trusted that you inturn would treat him the same . this is just one more reason people like you make this hobby/profession so hard to stomach sometimes.If i were you and THANK GOD i am not i would do the ONLY thing at this point send him ALL of his monies back and please spare him and us the blahblah's of how you cant do this or that due to paypal. its all a bag of lies and that bag is EMPTY now we all know you are still posting your sorry products all over everywhere you can so this thread will stand as to why no one should ever even consider doing buisness with the likes of you clowns again you are moraly inadequate to even attempt to have a buisness of anykind actually you should probably ve given free room &board by the state of NY imo even then you would manage to shaft the keepers of your keys then you both are deplorably horrible buisness people and this reflects that
YOU two are the appitamy of a human life form if you have any retoricle question for me please feel free to post them here or email me personally i would be more then happy to explain how a buisness transaction is to be carried out ... now granted i cant tell you how to get out of the hole you have dug so deep as i have never been in your postion due tyo the fact MY customers always come before anything else meaning i wouldnt have sent the reply that you will be busy Jipping others while you still had not resolved the problem here .. do you understand this ? you are truely a disgrace to herpers anywhere and make the thought of buying enclosures a horrid experience to anyone who hasent done so you can change your name a thousand times but the end result is still the same for the customer SCREWED!!!
have a great day sal & allison

Kris i truely hope that you get your full refund back my friend but i somehow think it will be a ball of lies as to why ,when & how
if you would like to talk i would be more then happy to show you how a real deal is to be made when buying a cage beleive it or not there not this much trouble to do.
Alan
 
Like everyone has already said...file a claim with Paypal TODAY for non delivery of goods and the company's refusal to follow their own refund policy.
Do not wait on Upstate to issue you a refund. Check out their other thread and you can see how they handle refunds on goods that were never delivered. I'm sure they already have Paypal complaints against them and this will just be one more.

They sent it freight collect for one reason....
If the customer actually knew how much they'd have to pay to have these heavy melamine eyesores shipped they would never order them in the first place!
 
Alan wrote:

"Sal & allison when you read this you should be sadly ashamed of how you have treated Kris . . ."

Uhhh . . .that would assume either of them had a conscience, and there simply is NO evidence for such being the case at all!

Sal and Alison, though they had appeared to be trying to get their acts together, have failed miserably once again in the customer service/honesty/integrity areas of this business! They cannot be trusted, and wise consumers will have absolutely NOTHING to do with either of them or their multitude of companies.

Isn't it interesting, by the way, that Alison has access to a tidal wave of actual documentation when she is defending herself against Ken Yates of Elite Reptiles, but cannot seem to find an accurate tracking number for one of her paying customers???

A pox on all your houses Upstate Exotics!!!

:puke:
 
........

Let me just say this.. It's amazing how so many reptile dealers are able to continue ripping people off all of the time and never get in trouble for it. Either all the people that say they have turned these matters over to authorities or lawyers (in civil cases) haven't, or the law just doesn't give a crap about reptile-related cases.

We've got pay seng buying animals on credit and not paying people back, and then selling sick and/or wc animals as captive born, and most of his animals usually die for some reason. We've got people selling het for albinos that are either wc or just cheap normal no hets..... People editing their snake photos in photoshop.... We've got people selling animals they don't own or even have access to... People trading stuff they either don't own or have mis-informed people of.... and pet shops housing their animals in horrific conditions. Most, if not all, of these people/businesses are still in business.

Something has to be done. All of the legitimate reptile businesses should put aside any differences that they have and come together and propose a national alliance, all having to agree upon certain set-standards of business. A non-profit organization with volunteers that would investigate complaints of deals gone bad, as well as for the health of the animals.

Stores/breeders/dealers would be visited by volunteers for general inspections every couple months or so, and when a complaint is filed against them. For members of the national alliance, they would only have to be inspected once a year, and would get a yearly certificate, which would be placed on a wall at their place of business, stating that they are an accepted member of the alliance; however, if a complaint is filed against them by a customer, they would have to be re-visited and investigated by the alliance to determine if the complaint had any merit, and if so, in the case of a business deal gone wrong, the company would either have to make it right or have its alliance membership taken away. All inspections would be surprise inspections.

This proposed alliance would work closely and collaborate with law enforcement, wildlife commission, dept of agriculture, the humane society, the FBI, and the better business bureau, as well as with other members of the alliance itself.

A database of members would be available via webpage, for customers to choose the "right" pet shop(s) in their area. It would also have a database of businesses that have unsolved complaints, which could be business deals, unhealthy animals, or a combination of the two.

Now, we just need to get a person or group of people to map out a nice plan, as well as to have a well-written speech as to why, and then find a good way to spread the word around.

Now, I'm sure some of you are thinking "what if only one alliance member was in a certain area? who would be an authority figure?". A neutral volunteer could be trained in that area, in person or via the internet. I know there are also a lot of breeders that don't allow people to come to their houses and all. They would either have to make an exception to the national alliance, or not become a member.

I've been thinking about something like this for a long time, but when it comes to how much time it would take to work with the idea, I just don't have time it would take to be the self-named president of the organization. Someone with a lot of time, a lot of dedication, and maybe even some money would help out a lot.

The foundation is there.. One just has to build upon it. Enjoy!
 
Charles,

It's a great idea that's been tossed around for years. However, with any system that involves so many levels and people corruption and favoritism come into play. Besides, the really bad guys would just continue on as usual, totally disregarding the organizations you propose.

I'm one of those guys that doesn't let anyone come over to my house until I've known you for a long time, and maybe not even then. I don' like big organizations or most of the folks you mentioned as wanting to have involved with your idea. I'd opt out just because of that.

If I ever do get bigtime again I'll let my reputation speak for itself. If you get ripped off I'll be more than happy to aid you however I may in getting back what's yours or getting what was promised or just giving advice no matter who you got your animal from but I have no desire to belong to any organization that polices this industry. I think that most of the "good guys" will always be willing to help any newbies, as well as oldies, no matter what happens as far as any organization.

More fetters is the last thing I need. Just keep getting the word out about all the bad guys and eventually the will be known far and wide instead of just here on the BOI.

Thanks but no thanks.

Wes Pollock
 
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