Enough is enough!! WARNING gruesome pics

[Chris@SFC]

**WARNING gruesome pics in here**

I have no idea where to start. All there is is anger and disgust at the pictures your about to see. The topic of BIG SNAKES in the everglades grabbed my attention at first, and angered me. But anger lasted a few minutes and I went on with life. I thought ehhh, the media and newspapers are always making something out of nothing. What were the chances of spotting a BIG SNAKE in the glades. It felt like the story of the gator in the sewer. But its all true whats going down down here in the everglades area of South Dade Miami. Its not a gimic or exaggerated story, its real. And we cant ignore it. I know theres a new law being established about owning BIG SNAKES and certain Monitor, lizard species. When it comes we need push it and go by it!
Sorry about being so angry and making this sound like a speech but those in florida who own such reptiles listed need to make an example and get those permits and register those reptiles so they can know that this promblem is serious and they need to punish those who havent met the requirments. If we sit back and dont push for this law we'll start seeing more of this!

exactly 5 miles from everglades national I found this old carcas of what looks to be a 7ft burmese python, road kill on the side of the road. What a welcome for the tourist. So sorry for the gruesome pics.:-(

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Push for more laws? How about personal responsibility instead.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Punish those that release. Those that keep responsibly, leave them alone.

 

[RJBILBY]

More Laws???

I agree with Dennis

 

[svreptiles]

Oh yeah, getting the government involved always makes things soooo much better!!!

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Not to mention, a lot of reptiles are shipped into the south florida area. Legally and illegally.
How many of those giants were "released by owners" and how many were dumped when the smuggler was nearly caught? How many were dumped when the shipper couldn't move the newly imported giants?

I just find it hard to believe that so many people owning giants drive all the way out to the Everglades to dump snakes. I have no doubt that it happens occasionally. But really? To ignore all the reptiles shipped into Miami/Dade and automatically assume people are taking unwanted pets to dump seems farfetched.

And I agree, WHEN has the government EVER passed a useful law regarding reptiles?

 

[Seamus Haley]

And I agree, WHEN has the government EVER passed a useful law regarding reptiles?

Well... it's already illegal to dump non-native species into the wild. Maybe the original poster wants them to add "and we mean it" to the end of the existing laws.

 

[FireStorm]

I don't like feral cats, or stray cats, or owners who let their cats go outside. They kill native wildlife (and my chickens for that matter), make more feral cats, starve, spread diseases, and get hit by cars. I don't like stray dogs, either, now that I think about it. They chase my horses, and they get hit by cars, too. I mean, who wants to see dead dogs and cats when they come to Florida (or anywhere, really)?

How about if we make people microchip their dogs and cats? That didn't work too well...maybe we should just outlaw them all together. It would sure be easier, and besides, who really likes dogs and cats anyways? (That's sarcasm, folks, just in case anybody missed it. I have dogs and cats, too).

Making dog and cat owners microchip their animals hasn't solved the problem with feral/stray dogs and cats, and it's mandatory where I live. I'm really not convinced that it's going to work with snakes. The responsible owners (the ones who weren't going to dump the animals in the first place) will pay for the permits and microchipping, and the irresponsible owners/smugglers/importers (the ones who aren't so good at following laws to begin with) will ignore the new law and keep on dumping their non-microchipped big snakes in the everglades. I'm not sure how Fish & Wildlife is going to make sure no one buys the listed animals without a permit. I don't want to see big snakes in the everglades, but I still think responsible owners should be allowed to keep them. My concern is that once they start regulating something, the laws only get more restrictive. And I don't own any big snakes, in case anybody's wondering.

Anyways, that's just my opinion.

Shelly

 

[Chris@SFC]

I don't like feral cats, or stray cats, or owners who let their cats go outside. They kill native wildlife (and my chickens for that matter), make more feral cats, starve, spread diseases, and get hit by cars. I don't like stray dogs, either, now that I think about it. They chase my horses, and they get hit by cars, too. I mean, who wants to see dead dogs and cats when they come to Florida (or anywhere, really)?

How about if we make people microchip their dogs and cats? That didn't work too well...maybe we should just outlaw them all together. It would sure be easier, and besides, who really likes dogs and cats anyways? (That's sarcasm, folks, just in case anybody missed it. I have dogs and cats, too).

Making dog and cat owners microchip their animals hasn't solved the problem with feral/stray dogs and cats, and it's mandatory where I live. I'm really not convinced that it's going to work with snakes. The responsible owners (the ones who weren't going to dump the animals in the first place) will pay for the permits and microchipping, and the irresponsible owners/smugglers/importers (the ones who aren't so good at following laws to begin with) will ignore the new law and keep on dumping their non-microchipped big snakes in the everglades. I'm not sure how Fish & Wildlife is going to make sure no one buys the listed animals without a permit. I don't want to see big snakes in the everglades, but I still think responsible owners should be allowed to keep them. My concern is that once they start regulating something, the laws only get more restrictive. And I don't own any big snakes, in case anybody's wondering.

Anyways, that's just my opinion.

Shelly

Great stuff Shelly. To begin this interested debate I believe you guys are right on how they shouldnt bother with the responsible keeper. I feel if we the responsible breeder show the state how responsible we are by chipping, and getting permitts they then can leave the good guys alone and punish the ones who have not showed the state that they have the knowlege of the animal, commitment, and responsibility to keep it. What this law sort of does is makes you married with the animal so there is no irresponsible mess ups. I know that the new law might not solve the whole promblem. But it'll slow down the chances of irresponsible keepers from having a animal like this. Its sort of like the fence around the mexican border. Its there to stop illegals from border hopping. And theres is sometimes a way to get over it. But that doesnt mean the walls not working, its making the whole situation of getting across much harder than just walking in.

As the thread goes on I will just view becuase I have nothing else to say or prove. I feel these easy to obtain Large and exotic animals need something there that tells the person before buying. "Hey do you have any idea what this animal is all about. "And How to Care for it"? If you do this is now your perminent responsibility. But one more thing im tired of is seeing run down pet shops with these animals mentioned under the law treated poorly and housed with a bunch of sick boas and sold for pennies to the average joe who only knows that the burmese python or anaconda hes about to buy is called a SNAKE. When you guys see what I see down here in Miami then you'll fully understand why this is important

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Great stuff Shelly. To begin this interested debate I believe you guys are right on how they shouldnt bother with the responsible keeper. I feel if we the responsible breeder show the state how responsible we are by chipping, and getting permitts they then can leave the good guys alone and punish the ones who have not showed the state that they have the knowlege of the animal, commitment, and responsibility to keep it. What this law sort of does is makes you married with the animal so there is no irresponsible mess ups. I know that the new law might not solve the whole promblem. But it'll slow down the chances of irresponsible keepers from having a animal like this. Its sort of like the fence around the mexican border. Its there to stop illegals from border hopping. And theres is sometimes a way to get over it. But that doesnt mean the walls not working, its making the whole situation of getting across much harder than just walking in.

As the thread goes on I will just view becuase I have nothing else to say or prove. I feel these easy to obtain Large and exotic animals need something there that tells the person before buying. "Hey do you have any idea what this animal is all about. "And How to Care for it"? If you do this is now your perminent responsibility. But one more thing im tired of is seeing run down pet shops with these animals mentioned under the law treated poorly and housed with a bunch of sick boas and sold for pennies to the average joe who only knows that the burmese python or anaconda hes about to buy is called a SNAKE. When you guys see what I see down here in Miami then you'll fully understand why this is important

We have a tendency to pass feel good laws.

The problem is that if history is any indicator it will never stop with just one law. The fee for the permits will never be just one price or permit. Once one law is on the books, it spreads. I’m not in Florida but some lawmaker elsewhere will use it to build new regulations in other parts of this country.

When they go to require more permits for other animals or ban other animals because it is a feel good law for someone else, they will have precedent on their side. Hey, we done this here, why can’t we do it with this situation? We might have some that keep herps rationalize it and support it until they take away the animals they keep. Then it will be too late.

What will the next law be? Permit all snakes over six feet? Permit all constrictors? Ban all constricting snakes?

Let me ask you. You have made a few good guy threads about different breeders and shops. What happens when they keep tacking on laws and bigger bureaucracies that it starts to harm those people? Costing thousands in fines, permits and time to just keep up with all the new regulations that follow. When they give up and quit because the area they live in outlaws many of the species they work with or make it so costly to do business that they leave the hobby, will it still be such a strong feeling to support new legislation?

Sound a little overboard? Maybe, but happens all the time in many industries.

For heaven sake, you can’t own a ball python in some areas of this country because someone helped pass a feel good law.
You can’t own a sand boa in some parts in this country because it is a deadly constrictor! Yes, that little bugger just might be able to suck my big toe off. All because someone felt there was a problem.

You can’t roll back time. Make sure you take every law seriously and its consequences. Never rely on your feelings.

I feel if we the responsible breeder show the state how responsible we are by chipping, and getting permitts they then can leave the good guys alone and punish the ones who have not showed the state that they have the knowlege of the animal, commitment, and responsibility to keep it.

What in the world would ever give you the confidence that any legislative body would stop making laws and leave people alone?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Edit

Double post deleted.

 

[FireStorm]

We have a tendency to pass feel good laws.

The problem is that if history is any indicator it will never stop with just one law. The fee for the permits will never be just one price or permit. Once one law is on the books, it spreads. I’m not in Florida but some lawmaker elsewhere will use it to build new regulations in other parts of this country.

When they go to require more permits for other animals or ban other animals because it is a feel good law for someone else, they will have precedent on their side. Hey, we done this here, why can’t we do it with this situation? We might have some that keep herps rationalize it and support it until they take away the animals they keep. Then it will be too late.

What will the next law be? Permit all snakes over six feet? Permit all constrictors? Ban all constricting snakes?

Let me ask you. You have made a few good guy threads about different breeders and shops. What happens when they keep tacking on laws and bigger bureaucracies that it starts to harm those people? Costing thousands in fines, permits and time to just keep up with all the new regulations that follow. When they give up and quit because the area they live in outlaws many of the species they work with or make it so costly to do business that they leave the hobby, will it still be such a strong feeling to support new legislation?

Sound a little overboard? Maybe, but happens all the time in many industries.

For heaven sake, you can’t own a ball python in some areas of this country because someone helped pass a feel good law.
You can’t own a sand boa in some parts in this country because it is a deadly constrictor! Yes, that little bugger just might be able to suck my big toe off. All because someone felt there was a problem.

You can’t roll back time. Make sure you take every law seriously and its consequences. Never rely on your feelings.


What in the world would ever give you the confidence that any legislative body would stop making laws and leave people alone?

I completely agree, Dennis. I don't think people realize how seriously they need to take laws like this. There are lots of people who would like to see reptiles, or exotics in general, banned and many of those people are working hard to make that happen. I have an aunt who is a lawyer for HSUS, and she doesn't think people should own any type of "exotic" (read: anything that's not a dog or domestic cat). She can make an argument that would convince most uninformed people, too. And let's face it, most voters are uninformed or misinformed when it comes to exotics. If you don't think you need to take things like this seriously, just look at what's happening in Texas right now. Texas is only one example, too.

Chris,

I know what's going on it Miami. I live a few hours north of you but I've been down there and I have friends who live there. The thing is, there are hundreds, of introduced species in Florida. There are 137 species of nonnative fish alone. Many of those pose serious threats to the environment, possibly even more serious than burmese pythons. It's the pythons that make the news, though, because that gets people's attention. I mean "The Blue Water Hyacinth: An Attack on Florida's Wetlands" isn't exactly headline material. Add to that the fact that, while there are laws in place that are supposed to protect wetlands from destruction, developers, farmers, and anybody else with the money and political clout can destroy the wetlands and get a slap on the wrist. My point is, the laws aren't being put in place just for conservation, and snakes in the everglades are just one aspect of a much larger problem.

I don't like the fact that petstores sell these animals to uneducated people anymore than you do, but you can't make a law that only applies to irresponsible people. I agree that things need to change, but I'm just not sure what the right answer is .

I hope all that makes sense....
Shelly

 

[Wolfy-hound]

The problem is that you don't want the laws to affect the "responsible owners" but the law-makers see ANYONE who owns the exotics at all as "irresponsible" just for owning them in the first place.
Most laws end up making the responsible owners work ten times as hard, while the irresponsible ones skate off without effort.

 

[Chris@SFC]

All I can say now is we play the waiting game and wait till its passed and see what effects and positives are really gonna take place.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

All I can say now is we play the waiting game and wait till its passed and see what effects and positives are really gonna take place.

So it's a forgone conclusion that it will pass?


I didn't think it was with your initial post.

If we sit back and dont push for this law we'll start seeing more of this

 

[Reptilicious]

poor reptiles

 

[FireStorm]

So it's a forgone conclusion that it will pass?

It's my understanding that the law requiring microchipping and permits for species of concern has passed. I think it takes effect in January 08, which means we're stuck with it at this point. It's the attitude that we should "push for more laws" that worries me, since I'm not sure this law is going to fix everything. If it was just this law, I could live with it.

Shelly

 

[svreptiles]

Cris, I think you're heart is in the right place and you're concern really is for the welfare of the animals and the hobby. However, what I (and apparently others here) have come to realize, is that government involvement and regulation very rarely actually helps a situation. The average legislator is as ignorant about, and biased against, reptiles as anyone. I would bet my next paycheck that some humaniac group ( PETA, etc.) was lurking somewhere in the shadows behind this legislation. This brings them one step closer to their goal of banning the ownership of all reptiles. As with most feel-good laws,very little real effort will be put into enforcing it. I seriously doubt law enforcement will spend much time seeking out those with unregistered constrictors. So, if and when the humaniac groups are able to obtain a complete ban, whose animals will be taken? The registered ones that the government knows about, the ones in the hands of responsible owners. Just something to think about. I do believe that some people have no business owning large constrictors, but I just can't see the government as the answer to this problem ( or any other, IMO).

Todd

 

[RJK890]

The Sky is Falling!

This law SUCKS!
So what if a 13' Burm eats a 6' American Alligator and explodes. Gators are protected but definitely not endangered. They say there is no way nature can control the population of large constrictors in the Glades. How do you think the fight between the 10'+ Gator and the 2-8' constrictor goes? They should sell permits to hunt/trap the large constrictors and spend the money from that to fund conservation efforts. If the skins/meat of an unwanted constrictor population were to supply the demand of snakeskin products could it slow the slaughter of them in their homelands?
The horror! A 7' Burm got ran over in the street. Again, So what. If it were a 7' Rattlesnake or another native species would it be so bad? Our tourist see Raccoons and Possums on the side of the road everyday, I'm sure they can handle the sight of those graphic pictures you posted.
I am not for releasing these animals at all. I just don't see how running responsable keepers(like myself) out of a hobby by imposing additional expenses on an already expensive hobby, and making them jump through hoops is going to help solve this at all. It is obviously not these people releasing them in the first place.
As a Florida resident and knowing how the employment and housing/construction markets are I think Florida should concentrate on the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT population and stop blowing the invasion of the Big snake thing out of proportion.

 

[dsirkle]

Uninformed legislators often quickly pass well intentioned legislation without having any knowledge of what they are regulating. A good example of this would be gun control laws where the media has circulated false but attention getting stories about plastic guns that are made with the express purpose to pass invisibly through metal detectors and "cop killer" Teflon coated bullets designed to penetrate police officers' Kevlar vests. I'm sure that some newspaper reporters faced with a deadline for writing an article and really having nothing to write about have resorted to coming up with an attention getting piece exaggerating the likelyhood of being eaten by "the giant snakes of the Everglades dumped by owners when they become too large". People that believe everthing that they read would get worked up about this and politicians looking for a good soundbite would quickly draft new laws to add to the existing laws already in place.