Enough is enough with the classifieds (*or* Why you cannot reply to classified ads)

[WebSlave]

Interesting questions, I think you and Rich posted at the same time, maybe he can answer them.

I believe I already did. The posters of the ads can edit them to make any additions and/or corrections.

 

[hhmoore]

The correct course will vary by the advertiser.
I don't like people posting in my ads; so if somebody does, most of the time I delete it and repost.
In the case of somebody posting misinformation in one of my ads (if I was not able to respond), there would be several options: 1) edit my original ad to make things clearer, 2) delete the ad and start over - which could result in another similar post, 3) leave it and hope that somebody else interjects to clarify (a twist on this option would be to contact a friend that could do that), 4) PM the person, explaining why their post was incorrect & ask them to edit/remove it.

I won't say that I haven't posted in ads for the wrong reasons; but, when one sees what is perceived as a mistake or misrepresentation, why don't people use a PM to notify the advertiser? I think most of us would rather get that kind of a nudge, so we can explain ourselves or correct our error, rather than getting called out in our ads. Saving the posting in ads for those sellers that ignore this approach would be a plus on several levels (IMO).

 

[Ponderosa Snake]

I liked when everyone was able to post comments. Made the classifieds different than the other classified. Several times I learned a thing or two about a morph, animal and especially the seller. Sure there may be some indirect conversation, but that is the way we communicate. If you are the type of person that doesn't like or want to deal with it then there is the option close the ad.

I am type of person that likes to read about everything I am interested in. Say someone post's a "Super Rad Awesome Cool Dope" morph. I may think wow that looks like a normal to me. Then someone post's that it looks like a normal. Another person or the op explains the reason it is a "Super Rad Awesome Cool Dope" morph. It saves me from posting or PMing the op and I learned something.

I know it has been rehashed many times over. I just think if you don't want post in the ads then no one should be able to post.

I won't say that I haven't posted in ads for the wrong reasons; but, when one sees what is perceived as a mistake or misrepresentation, why don't people use a PM to notify the advertiser? I think most of us would rather get that kind of a nudge, so we can explain ourselves or correct our error, rather than getting called out in our ads. Saving the posting in ads for those sellers that ignore this approach would be a plus on several levels (IMO).

I agree a PM would be best in certain situations. Some people seem to like the taste of foot though.

 

[Chrisw]

I won't say that I haven't posted in ads for the wrong reasons; but, when one sees what is perceived as a mistake or misrepresentation, why don't people use a PM to notify the advertiser? I think most of us would rather get that kind of a nudge, so we can explain ourselves or correct our error, rather than getting called out in our ads. Saving the posting in ads for those sellers that ignore this approach would be a plus on several levels (IMO).

Then Rich wouldnt have needed to "lockdown" the classifieds. Its too simple!

 

[ceduke]

I'm late to this discussion, just wanted to say that I LOVE this update, and I like the idea of no replies at all even better. Not clicking on ads that some schmuck bumped up from years ago that's now on the first page is very very helpful.

 

[PAVLOVK1025]

I think you're getting bored being all retired and whatnot.

 

[timebider]

I'm coming to this discussion really late, and haven't read all of the replies yet, but wanted to throw in my two cents.

I like the ability to reply in classifieds ads. I almost never do it myself, but I've directly reaped the benefit from others' ability to do so. A former customer of mine recently posted a really nice, and unexpected, compliment in one of my ads. It was awesome for me as a relatively unknown seller to have him telling others that they can't go wrong buying from me locally. Showing up in the ad as it did, the comment had the appearance of being both totally unsolicited and "un-pre-meditated" (as it in fact was). I also like receiving nice comments about my animals (who wouldn't ), because I think it encourages other buyers who might be sitting on the fence. One of those, "hey, maybe I better go ahead and get that animal I want before someone else beats me to it" kind of things.

I've also observed that ads that have several responses catch more attention. People want to see what's being said and/or what's so compelling about that particular animal. Is it possible to make it so that responses don't bump ads? And maybe some sort of rule that a second ad for the same animal can't be posted within three months? That way, members could still benefit from the bump feature. Although I realize it would make more work for mods, policing the abuse of duplicate ads. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[bsharrah]

A former customer of mine recently posted a really nice, and unexpected, compliment in one of my ads. It was awesome for me as a relatively unknown seller to have him telling others that they can't go wrong buying from me locally. Showing up in the ad as it did, the comment had the appearance of being both totally unsolicited and "un-pre-meditated" (as it in fact was). I also like receiving nice comments about my animals (who wouldn't ), because I think it encourages other buyers who might be sitting on the fence. One of those, "hey, maybe I better go ahead and get that animal I want before someone else beats me to it" kind of things.

Would you still like them if the comment was not so nice?

I've also observed that ads that have several responses catch more attention. People want to see what's being said and/or what's so compelling about that particular animal.

I think they just want to see the drama that is assumed to exist in an ad that has a lot of responses. I really have not seen too many ads where a lot of responses was a good thing.

It never occurred to me that I can no longer respond to my own ad in cases where a paying member posts negative information or attempts to elude that something is wrong with the animal. I have no way to defend myself. If I do nothing, I am assumed to be admitting its true since I am not posting to deny it. If I delete and repost, then I am appearing deceitful. Yes I can edit the ad but the accusations are still there and most people are not going to look at the original post for a response to an accusation in the thread. Still seems the best approach; other than not posting the ad at all, is to lock the thread, even though that too gives the impression I am hiding something.

 

[Clay Davenport]

A former customer of mine recently posted a really nice, and unexpected, compliment in one of my ads. It was awesome for me as a relatively unknown seller to have him telling others that they can't go wrong buying from me locally. Showing up in the ad as it did, the comment had the appearance of being both totally unsolicited and "un-pre-meditated" (as it in fact was).

I'm sure every seller enjoys having a compliment posted in their ad. While we usually try to turn a blind eye to positive comments as long as they aren't getting excessive, the reality is they should be posted on the BOI and not the classifieds. Negative posts of that nature (excluding just a link to a BOI thread) receive infractions, but the letter of the rule would include complimentary BOI style posts we well. We just hate to chastise anyone for being nice if we can help it.
Besides wouldn't you rather have a Good Guy thread on the BOI instead of a temporary compliment in the classifieds? Anything in the classifieds only lasts until either you delete the ad or it sinks into obscurity, but a Good Guy thread is there forever for anyone who does a search.

Is it possible to make it so that responses don't bump ads?

This was discussed among the moderation staff at one point. It would be an ideal solution, but the problem was enabling that feature in the classifieds in turn disables the custom bump feature. The custom code and that setting are fundamentally incompatible.

And maybe some sort of rule that a second ad for the same animal can't be posted within three months? That way, members could still benefit from the bump feature. Although I realize it would make more work for mods, policing the abuse of duplicate ads. Just thinking out loud here.

This idea wouldn't just be more work, it would be altogether impossible to implement even with a staff of several dozen moderators. The site gets several hundred new ads posted per day. Imagine having to open every one of those ads and then check the OP's post history for the previous 90 days and trying to see if that specific animal had been posted in that time. Then do that every single day.
I'm sure once you think about actually doing it you can see what an insurmountable undertaking that would be.

 

[timebider]

Would you still like them if the comment was not so nice?

I conduct my business in such a manner that I don't have to worry about negative comments.

 

[timebider]

This idea wouldn't just be more work, it would be altogether impossible to implement even with a staff of several dozen moderators. The site gets several hundred new ads posted per day. Imagine having to open every one of those ads and then check the OP's post history for the previous 90 days and trying to see if that specific animal had been posted in that time. Then do that every single day.
I'm sure once you think about actually doing it you can see what an insurmountable undertaking that would be.

Ugh. I always give technology more credit than it generally deserves, and I thought there might be some automated way to handle this much more easily.

It's so irritating to have to constantly thwart troublemongers!

 

[WebSlave]

I conduct my business in such a manner that I don't have to worry about negative comments.

Ah, but that does not take into consideration an infestation of trolls who would do such a thing merely to cause trouble. It would be very naive to believe that such doesn't take place here.

 

[Helenthereef]

I haven't waded through all 190+ posts so please feel free to ignore me if this idea has been suggested already (or if it is technically impossible), but could you lock the pages after the initial advertisement and yet allow people to post links, and ONLY links, to other threads concerning the advertiser in case of concerns?

It does seem to me that this is a transfer of hostility now that the BOI is more civilised... Trolls gonna troll, and they may just transfer their attentions to other forums.

 

[hhmoore]

Locking the ad is an option for all users....but locking the ad locks the ad. The only way to control the type of post made is to have the moderators making them (this was actually brought up in the discussions before the change was made). The problem with that is that if we were going to do that, we would have to do so indiscriminately...without regard for our own feelings on matter, or the particular link provided. Speaking for myself - I am not willing to post negative links on people I have been interacting with for years, or total strangers, just because somebody wants it posted. It goes against every grain of common sense, moral judgement, and business acumen.

 

[timebider]

Ah, but that does not take into consideration an infestation of trolls who would do such a thing merely to cause trouble. It would be very naive to believe that such doesn't take place here.

Oh, believe me, I know it does...rampantly. The difference, for me, is that anyone wishing to target me in such a manner would not be able to prove any accusations they might choose to level. Those kinds of BOI threads inevitably lead to the troll being definitively shown to be the bad guy. I also refuse to engage with trolls in any way that would give them satisfaction and/or make me look unprofessional.

(While we're discussing pipe dreams...it would be awesome if, in those kinds of BOI situations, a mod could change the red "bad guy" label to an "info" emblem - which would eliminate sellers' complaints about potential customers seeing that bad guy label and not bothering to read further, without changing the integrity of the thread itself at all. But I do understand the rationale behind NOT altering or deleting BOI threads at all, not least of which is the problem of placing mods in the position of judge and jury.

I'll quit now.

 

[WebSlave]

Oh, believe me, I know it does...rampantly. The difference, for me, is that anyone wishing to target me in such a manner would not be able to prove any accusations they might choose to level. Those kinds of BOI threads inevitably lead to the troll being definitively shown to be the bad guy. I also refuse to engage with trolls in any way that would give them satisfaction and/or make me look unprofessional.

(While we're discussing pipe dreams...it would be awesome if, in those kinds of BOI situations, a mod could change the red "bad guy" label to an "info" emblem - which would eliminate sellers' complaints about potential customers seeing that bad guy label and not bothering to read further, without changing the integrity of the thread itself at all. But I do understand the rationale behind NOT altering or deleting BOI threads at all, not least of which is the problem of placing mods in the position of judge and jury.

I'll quit now.

The issue here was that the trolling was taking place in the classifieds sections of this site, making it an uncomfortable environment for people simply trying to engage in business. That is what I am trying to stamp out by this change in policy.

 

[reticguy76]

wow, this was quite the thread !!!

 

[reticguy76]

oopps, hit the post button too soon

there is no pure, best way to run a forum, let alone specific sections such as the classified and/or the boi.

i personally like to see responses in classifieds, it gives me a good sense of what the animal and seller is all about.

ive purchased animals and passed on animals many times based on response posts to ads, i have sold/trades animals to/with people based on the same. i think you really learn about people based on responses from people (whether they are "called out" on their ads or just obtaining more specific information).

 

[joshjtd]

I do apologize if this has already been mentioned but I would like to propose that you require a membership fee to the site. Whether or not you are a buyer or a seller, this site is a great resource. It doesn't have to be a huge fee, but something like $10-$20 annually. Maybe having a bit of personal coin to lose will deter some folks from not following the rules.

It would also cut down on the folks creating new accounts to bump their threads. Maybe not the perfect solution but just my two cents.

 

[hhmoore]

Josh - while making the whole site "(paid) members only" hasn't been tried, it was done in both the BOI and in the classifieds. Both efforts proved detrimental to the site, particularly the classifieds; so I doubt Rich would be going down that road again (unless/until he simply doesn't care about the well being of the site...ie, when it comes to the point where it HAS to generate significant revenue or cease to exist)