Info Erik Strait, aka Eriks Reptiles, Parasites and Misrepresentation

[Pasodama]

I think I missed where there was evidence of mixing CB & WC together. I think there was a mention of the same photo setup that may not have been properly sanitized between photo shoots? Is that it?

That, plus Erik's mention of keeping LTC & CB together, is all I know of. Erik also mentioned that, although he uses the same item/s for taking pics of different animals, he sanitizes between takes (of different animals). So, I do not know if he actually places WC & CB together or not. Thus, as far as in my case, the reason I used the word "If".

If an animal is WC, placed in a cage with other WC, and that cage is tested for parasites and the results are negative, is this not acceptable? Especially if the importer had stated they were treated previously?

I would treat (and have) despite what an importer says.
Also, as far as testing, it is possible to get false negatives. Also possible is the chance of selecting feces, of a yet unaffected animal, to test. Etc.
Granted, however, that taking/testing a sample, from a cage (of multiple animals), does lessen the probabilities if the test comes back negative. So, while one can be reasonably assured, it is just not 100% accurate/reliable all the time.

However, as this is an info-only thread so the focus is not to vilify the seller's business practices but to call attention to the fact that some kind of parasite is present in his stock. This has not been proven and there is a possibility that whatever the worms/maggots are came from the buyer's environment.

You are right, It is only supposed to be an Info thread and there is no concrete proof of certain allegations.

It seems that nothing more will come of this thread, other than people going "round & round", unless/until such time as acceptable/more proof is provided.
Meanwhile, whoever reads this thread can take what they will, from it, and decide whether they would like to do business with the seller or not.

 

[Rhacoboy]

Hello,
I have received SEVERAL Uroplatus from Erik. I have also received more than one specie of Uroplatus from Erik as well. The animals that I have received from Erik have all arrived timely, healthy and hydrated as well as very well fed. I have even had animals come and breed right away after being shipped from Erik.

Erik has been one of the most professional people in this business I have dealt with, and currently the largest and most diverse collection of Uroplatus in the world. As far as I understand, he refunded your money, or at least offered to (I didn't read through all of the replies), and that is at this point all he can do.

You need to understand these are not crested geckos, they are Uroplatus. These things happen with Uroplatus. Animals that appear healthy can all of a sudden die the next day with no prior warning. This is something that Uroplatus keepers deal with all the time, and if your initial reaction when you have a Uroplatus die off is to attack the seller, I would suggest finding another genius to spend your time on.

Also, mentioning his age, personal life, and where he lives and where his facility is set up is COMPLETELY irrelivant and very unprofessional. These facts have nothing to do with this issue, and never should have been brought in to this thread. I am younger than Erik, and the fact that you are commenting on his young age in a negative way is very offensive to me and I'm sure many other keepers.

I'm sorry about your animals, and I do hope that the two of you can come to a conclusion about this. For all of you second guessing Erik after reading this thread, I would advise you not to do so. If you want healthy Uroplatus, Erik is the way to go. Simple as that. I can assure you, you will be happy with the service and animals you receive from Erik.

Thank you,
-Armen

 

[Jackp308]

They did come to a conclusion, Yes all that info is relevant this is the BOI and what its meant for. So just because the genus is prone to have die offs does not mean its ok to buy $800 pair of geckos to have worms coming out of its ears. The op is simply stating how her transaction went . Apparently people get defensive when they think them or someone they like is being slandered. Yes eric is professional enough to refund and make things right. The point is these animals were paid for top dollar and got some crap.Stuff does happen especially mixing LTC , WC, and CBs. Yes thats a gamble you pay for I guess in the animal world. He made it up and things were justified. So is that suppose to mean OP can say how things went down and feel how he misrepresents which it clearly looks that way.

Who really knows where them bugs came from I don't think they are erics problem really but he stepped forward.


As stated this thread goes to show Eric will step up to the plate if the customer has an issue and resolve it promptly. I would do business with him but I think OP has the right to keep uros and say how the transaction went down.

 

[Jackp308]

He has one complaint out of how many uroplatus sold to happy customers and the way he handles this and communicated proves he is a good guy.

 

[deborahbroadus]

He has one complaint out of how many uroplatus sold to happy customers and the way he handles this and communicated proves he is a good guy.

OR...that he's been lucky?

Just putting that out there, because lots of people I would have though were "Good" guys turned out not to be when the final analysis was made.

 

[Rhacoboy]

OR...that he's been lucky?
QUOTE]

I apologize if this comes off as rude, but this is a very weak argument. Simply stating that someone has been lucky after having shipped out hundreads of one of the most delicate geniuses in the gecko world, is a very poor argument with no backing. Erik being a successful breeder of these difficult species and having hundreads of professional and successful business transactions can hardly be described as a matter of luck.

I am sorry if I am offending anyone, but it irritates me to see someone try and make out a professional, reputable breeder into someone who is trying to con the public and his customers and claim to be something he is not.


-Armen

 

[Rhacoboy]

Freshly deceased, lol! A new twist on something you just want "dropped". Hit and run? I would LOVE for you to name the "large number" of you who mix WC with CB, lol. I think everyone will "use caution" when dealing with you...and them.

Hello Chris,
I have mixed WC with CB, and I would bet that everyone with a large number of Uroplatus has.
It is a breeding practice, one that people must use when freshening bloodlines, etc. There is simply not enough CBB animals out there that breeders must mix the WC with them in order to establish breeding groups.

I'm not sure that you've ever worked with Uroplatus, but I think you should study up on the genius before jumping down someones throat for mixing WC with CBB.

-Armen

 

[Rhacoboy]

I think the quality of the videos were sufficient enough to make alot of people cringe and I would be suprised if the majority of viewers here would agree that they show "virtually nothing". I also fail to see how the "source of the species" is even relevant. Nothing should have been crawling out of the animals head. With nothing to breed it to. What loss? The seller testified that he doesn't do it for money. It is a hobby.

Wheater Erik does this as a hobby or not, he still took a loss.
Saying that he didn't take a loss is ignorence, IMO.

-Armen

 

[Rhacoboy]

"Yes, I did buy Derek's Collection and that is where some of your animals came from. I bought his collection so I could go through it, find unrelated animals, and keep them. However I have been breeding Uroplatus for over a decade, I have an article in Reptiles Magazine, and over 700 Uroplatus in my collection right now, not to mention the hundreds of other animals." "Yes I am 22. There are several young breeders at an age like myself. I have never scammed anyone and honestly could care less about making money, I have a real job for a reason." "I AM working on my masters in Zoology & Computer Science." That's alot going on for just being a "hobbyist", especially when your time is so consumed with your "real job", your studies and your going "to the mountains and camp/hike". Do you ever sleep? I can't imagine any hobbyist/breeder with close to a thousand animals or more who "could care less about making money", let alone make time for anything else. Just my opinion.

Hey Chris,
Please don't take this as me singling you out or attacking you, I'm just trying to figure out some of your replies, as they really don't relate to the issue at hand.

I'm curious as to why you are making it a point to discuss how Erik manages his time? I don't see how this is relevant to the thread. Also, I am wondering why you are questioning the fact that he is simply a hobbyist? I have been constantly checking on Erik's website for the past few years, in which he produced hundreads of Uroplatus, and he didn't sell any. In my opinion, if he were trying to make money off them, why would he not have been selling them for the past few years, when clearly he had people waiting for him to post for sale adds. Someone who dedicates this amount of time to breeding and keeping such a delicate and rare genius, can't be described as anything BUT a hobbyist.

If you are trying to make a point, I have a suggestion; If you stick to making relivant points about the actual issue, and not look as though you are trying to attack Erik with irrelivant and unimportant facts, people, like myself, will be more inclined to listen to you and take your replies seriously.
You may take my suggestion, or you may ignore it, the choice is yours.

Thanks,
-Armen

 

[Wilomn]

Hello Chris,
I have mixed WC with CB, and I would bet that everyone with a large number of Uroplatus has.
It is a breeding practice, one that people must use when freshening bloodlines, etc. There is simply not enough CBB animals out there that breeders must mix the WC with them in order to establish breeding groups.

I'm not sure that you've ever worked with Uroplatus, but I think you should study up on the genius before jumping down someones throat for mixing WC with CBB.

-Armen

Interesting. So, you're saying that exposing animals that are for sale to animals that are freshly imported has something to do with further the increase of genetic diversity in uroplatus?

So if I mix wild caught ball pythons with well cared for captives, then sell them, it should just be accepted as standard practice and therefore, in light of the lack of the previously and often mentioned genes, not worth mentioning?

I don't know, somehow that seems to be a leaky premise there.

Seems if you REALLY cared about all the genes you needed you'd be treasuring the ones that are good and working KNOWN and ACCEPTED quarantine procedures. But maybe it's different with you uro guys, you get a pass because there are so few of what you work with...

No, that just doesn't ring true.

By the way, no one else answered in the affirmative, perhaps you'll be the first, have YOU ever, personally, seen live lung worms?

 

[Skanakis]

lol....Dr Greek. Gotta love that name. Well seems like Eric did the right thing. Seems as though you had parasites. Gotta agree. Poop happens. You got animals from him that are doing good i believe. That other guy is right. Some of the BEST breeders out there will get infected with something or other. The bad thing is if Eric KNEW he sent you bad animals. But who knows? And those vids man...lol. Gotta love a woman who can tear open a lizard with ease. Kinda like a woman who can pull off a endo on a zx-11. My girl wouldnt even step near my snakes and yelled at me when i would put a whole lamb on a spit with a bag of intestines ready to cook.

 

[deborahbroadus]

OR...that he's been lucky?
QUOTE]

I apologize if this comes off as rude, but this is a very weak argument. Simply stating that someone has been lucky after having shipped out hundreads of one of the most delicate geniuses in the gecko world, is a very poor argument with no backing. Erik being a successful breeder of these difficult species and having hundreads of professional and successful business transactions can hardly be described as a matter of luck.

I am sorry if I am offending anyone, but it irritates me to see someone try and make out a professional, reputable breeder into someone who is trying to con the public and his customers and claim to be something he is not.


-Armen

I am not arguing supposition, and I am not trying to make someone anything. My suggestion is as valid as your "claim" that someone that's shipped/breed this species with one complaint is a "Good Guy."

As a matter of fact, I do believe that my suggestion has more validity than your claim, because history (within this community) has shown a lot of bad guys that were finally revealed YEARS LATER because no one dared complain all those years because they were afraid to.

Not saying that your friend/seller is doing this, but that my suggestion is as valid as your claim.

In the final analysis, I do agree that the seller handled the situation well, but I also understand the factors that could influence the OP to post regardless, and I am glad she did.

 

[Rhacoboy]

Hello,
I don't recall saying that I don't use quarantine for my animals, would you care to point out where I stated that?
Thanks,
-Armen

 

[pakinjak]

Mixing WC and CB is something that needs to be defined. Of course nobody is going to blast a keeper for mixing them after proper quarantine measures. The issue is that Erik has stated that he does not treat his animals for parasites. WC Uroplatus normally come chock full of parasites, and CB animals don't seem to handle these as well as the F1 generation. So to mix WC and CB having never even tried to clear the WC seems like a bad idea to me.

Now... this is how it applies to this thread- I've seen quite a few Uroplatus keepers that have a "hands off" treatment plan- they don't treat unless the animal declines. The reason for this is that Uroplatus are sensitive and some folks think the treatment can do more harm than good. So at least Erik is within some kind of normative practice within the Uroplatus community, and it needs to be taken into consideration.

Plus, aren't lungworms difficult to diagnose anyway? I don't have much knowledge of them specifically, but that's what I've read in Klingenberg's book.

I'm not trying to take a side here. I know it sounds like I'm gunning for Erik here, but if I shared my opinion of the accused as it relates to the genus it would probably sound the opposite... but it's irrelevant. I just don't think anybody has mentioned these things so far, so I thought I'd post it.

 

[April Homich]

I just came across this thread. Those are maggots. You can see it in how they move... and that they are the right shape and have the dark point. I don't know of any parasitic worms, especially nematodes (roundworms, lungworms, etc) that move like that. They look absolutely nothing alike. In warm weather you'd be surprised how quickly flies can get into dead tissue or open wounds. At the vet I work at we see at least 2 pets each summer on average with maggots. They develop extremely fast. Eggs from a housefly hatch in less than a day. Those aren't parasites that came with the animal...

 

[KelliH]

I just came across this thread. Those are maggots. You can see it in how they move... and that they are the right shape and have the dark point. I don't know of any parasitic worms, especially nematodes (roundworms, lungworms, etc) that move like that. They look absolutely nothing alike. In warm weather you'd be surprised how quickly flies can get into dead tissue or open wounds. At the vet I work at we see at least 2 pets each summer on average with maggots. They develop extremely fast. Eggs from a housefly hatch in less than a day. Those aren't parasites that came with the animal...

Of COURSE they are.

 

[Wilomn]

I just came across this thread. Those are maggots. You can see it in how they move... and that they are the right shape and have the dark point. I don't know of any parasitic worms, especially nematodes (roundworms, lungworms, etc) that move like that. They look absolutely nothing alike. In warm weather you'd be surprised how quickly flies can get into dead tissue or open wounds. At the vet I work at we see at least 2 pets each summer on average with maggots. They develop extremely fast. Eggs from a housefly hatch in less than a day. Those aren't parasites that came with the animal...

And yet, some say they are not. Like me. Have you ever seen lung worms in person?

 

[pakinjak]

I don't know if anybody has said this yet, but probably half the posts in this thread could have been avoided if the OP had kept some of those worms and had them looked at by their vet or at least taken some decent pictures. Not only would it have squashed the main topic of argument in this thread, but Uroplatus keepers like myself would have appreciated any info that could have come of it. It was bad judgment for something like that happens and then throw away the evidence... I mean, if the OP gets multiiple animals from the seller, and one of them has "parasites" crawling out of their ears, wouldn't you want to know what that parasite was so you could treat the rest of the animals? I'm completely bumfuzzled by this.

 

[BlooHiss]

I don't know if anybody has said this yet, but probably half the posts in this thread could have been avoided if the OP had kept some of those worms and had them looked at by their vet or at least taken some decent pictures. Not only would it have squashed the main topic of argument in this thread, but Uroplatus keepers like myself would have appreciated any info that could have come of it. It was bad judgment for something like that happens and then throw away the evidence... I mean, if the OP gets multiiple animals from the seller, and one of them has "parasites" crawling out of their ears, wouldn't you want to know what that parasite was so you could treat the rest of the animals? I'm completely bumfuzzled by this.

I completely agree. I don't know anyone that would just throw it away without discovering what it was in case it jeopardized the rest of the colony. Fishy that the OP has bounced, too.

 

[Spyral]

I don't know if anybody has said this yet, but probably half the posts in this thread could have been avoided if the OP had kept some of those worms and had them looked at by their vet or at least taken some decent pictures. Not only would it have squashed the main topic of argument in this thread, but Uroplatus keepers like myself would have appreciated any info that could have come of it. It was bad judgment for something like that happens and then throw away the evidence... I mean, if the OP gets multiiple animals from the seller, and one of them has "parasites" crawling out of their ears, wouldn't you want to know what that parasite was so you could treat the rest of the animals? I'm completely bumfuzzled by this.

I asked that too, and the response was:

To be honest, I wanted it out of my house as soon as I was done taking pictures. I had worms crawling all over my gloves and the paper towel, and they rapidly spreading to the kitchen counter. I ran everything out to the dumpster, and spent the next hour bleaching everything it had touched. I've since read that some of the lung worms are transmittable to humans, so I don't think I was exactly overreacting. Again, according to my many conversations with Dr. Greek, it was most likely a type of internal parasite, there was no way it could have been maggots in a freshly dead gecko, and worms inside the chest cavity aren't that uncommon in WC animals. The problem is these were not WC, they were CB.

I can't argue with being afraid of catching lungworm, but I don't think that, at the time, she thought that they were lungworms. I suppose she thought they were maggots at the time and got rid of them, then after talking with her vet could have introduced the possibility of lungworm?

It seems that a lot of facts got misconstrued here, and it's just as likely that the vet said lungworms were a possibility and the rest of the accusations put forward in the first few posts were a result of that speculation. I have never seen lungworms before, so I cannot say they are not lungworms but I've seen maggots and I wouldn't rule those out from the videos.