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Ethanol

Clay Davenport

Cerebral Nomad
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Another thread in this section about feed prices has brought this issue up as well so I wanted to start a new thread on it, as it is something that has been bothering me for several years.

We need to do anything we can to curtail this ethanol push we are seeing from the government and the environmentalists.
To just say we are replacing 10% of our gasoline use with ethanol sounds real good on the surface, but these people who are such strong supporters of it either are ignorant of the truth or simply refuse to accept it.

Ethanol, in actuality, provides a negative return on energy. Consider the amount of petroleum consumed in the production of the ethanol to begin with, diesel used to power the machines that plow and plant and harvest the fields, the petroleum used in the fertilizer itself and the production of it, and the petroleum used in the processing of the corn into ethanol.
Then consider the effect it has on your car. My truck for instance (I've done the measurements) suffers a 15% decrease in gas mileage using 10% ethanol gas versus ethanol free gas. If you're replacing 10% of the gasoline with ethanol and getting 15% lower gas mileage, where is the benefit?
At my rate of mileage, I can pay as much as 50 cents per gallon more for ethanol free gasoline and still break even as compared to using the 10% ethanol.
All this is not even considering the damage done to the engines, especially older vehicles and all small engines, boats, and motorcycles.

Now consider that somewhere in the neighborhood of 90% of all packaged foods contains some form of corn.
Two years ago I heard on the radio that that season a full third of the Kansas corn production was going to ethanol. That's the only actual figure I've heard, but it's feasible that the figures would be in the same range nation wide.
If you're taking around a third of the corn crop right off the top to produce a fuel that is a losing proposition, then trying to feed both ourselves and our livestock with the remainder, while continuing to export, it becomes very obvious why virtually all food prices have risen significantly, in some cases doubled or even tripled in the last five years. As an example 5 years ago I was buying ground beef for 99 cents a pound and today it averages 3.68 per pound.

I'm not saying ethanol is the sole reason for this, the devaluing of the dollar and inflation have played their parts as well, but the decreased availability of corn for food does play a large role.

Right now in my area there are still a couple of gas stations that continue to sell ethanol free gasoline. I buy all my fuel needs from those places for every vehicle and gas powered tool I own. I use no gas whatsoever that contains ethanol. I would encourage anyone else who has access to ethanol free gas to do the same. If it's more expensive, as it is for me, check your gas mileage, and I'll bet you'll still save money even when paying the extra for the gas to begin with.

I don't know how it is in other states, but in NC, the fuel depots actually discourage the sale of non ethanol gas by a form of discrimination.
When a tanker goes to load up for delivery there are two tanks they stop at, one puts gasoline in the tanker, and the next puts in the ethanol to achieve the 10% mix.
The trucks of course line up for access to the loading areas.
If a driver comes to get a load of non ethanol fuel, he is made to wait until all of the other drivers are loaded before he can load. This means a driver arriving at 7am might actually have to wait until late afternoon to get loaded.
As a result of these practices only one of our local fuel distributors will still haul non ethanol fuel.

Until we can convince our ignorant uninformed lawmakers, as well as the ones who are benefiting from the practice to change their regulations, if you have access to non ethanol fuel use it, in everything you have. For the time being speaking with your wallet is the only thing we have to do.
Ethanol is not the answer to our energy needs, that is not if we also want to eat ourselves and feed our livestock.
 
Yeah, I agree, but the problem is finding such gasoline stations offering ethanol free gasoline. There really aren't that many of them when I am located and it would certainly be an even greater challenge to locate them when on a trip out of town.

Obviously some serious money is crossing palms somewhere because of this. So who are the major beneficiaries?
 
Ethanol leaves a lot of deposits in an engine. I have an issue with ethanol-based gasoline with my 2000 Toyota Corolla, which is not a flex-fuel vehicle. Ethanol does not burn as clean as typical gasoline and will leave ash deposits on fuel injectors and spark plugs, further reducing the efficiency of your engine.

Ethanol as a fuel can work. Unfortunately, we're using ethanol extracted from corn, but only at a 1:1 ratio for energy inputs vs. energy outputs. Corn simply doesn't have enough sugar to make it worthwhile for ethanol production. We really should be using high sugar content plants such as sugar cane or sugar beets instead of corn.

There's also the added concern about diverting our food supply into generating fuel. Already we're seeing a lack of food exports to other countries because of the drought and the government mandates to produce enough ethanol to fuel our nationwide fleet. In 2008 a similar situation happened and many poorer countries literally went hungry.

I think ethanol, in the long run, can work as a viable fuel. However, we're going about it all wrong right now. We're in pretty severe growing pains, no matter how you look at it. Petroleum-based fuel is not going to get any cheaper. It's going to get harder and more expensive to extract, and it's not a limitless resource. In fact, it's estimated we will run out of petroleum deposits in 50 years if China continues its industrial expansion (which it will). We definitely need another fuel.
 
GMO , follow the trail
This all presented to the general public
10+ yrs ago under the label of biodiesel.
Month after month passed and the paid no heed
to any of the forthright double speak that was
advertised everywhere. People did not listen, don't drive a diesel
don't need to listen. Listening to the tail end
of the national level coverage telling you the consumer
they were coming soon to advance fuel(gas) technology well into the 21st Century.
THEIR HERE!!
 
Yeah, I agree, but the problem is finding such gasoline stations offering ethanol free gasoline. There really aren't that many of them when I am located and it would certainly be an even greater challenge to locate them when on a trip out of town.

That's very true, once you get out of your home area it's extremely difficult to find it, especially since the vast majority of stations that I know of are privately owned mom and pop style stations and not the big chains.

There is a website that attempts to keep track of where non ethanol fuel is sold, but it's user dependent and not always accurate as stations start and atop offering it, but it's at least a help.

http://pure-gas.org/

Supporting local stations that sell non ethanol will at least help keep them in business and keep it available. If enough did so then the larger stations would see the lost potential business and it might make a difference.
Unfortunately the population at large fails to realize the power they posses as consumers.
 
Unfortunately the population at large fails to realize the power they posses as consumers.
There first step before exercising power is to realize that there is a problem, that is why I appreciated that you posted. I never gave a lot of thought to ethanol, after your post, I will consider it more often and convey to my friends some of what you have written here.
 
Well, I think the point it, WHO actually wanted this stuff in our gasoline in the first place? No one asked me about it. How about you?
 
Accountability in Government ? they havent had to ask anybody for anything for the last two decades.

You'll like it like Mikey (he'll eat anything) :yesnod:

HEY MIKEY!!

 
Does it really matter? what the Gov does?
People read and quickly return to their comfortable :sheep world,
though some what shocking at first notice,Facebook or Yahoo sports is more interesting
then the reality of the world that's soon to completely over take them.
The world as you know it will be 180* off where it is currently with-in 24-36 months.

Just keep sitting there convincing your self your not one of the sheep,
time will soon prove where you have been all along.
 
White sheep return to their comfortable, unquestioning world of acceptance.

Black sheep return to their comfortable, paranoid world of continuously jumping on every conspiracy bandwagon there is, no matter how unsupported their opinions are.

Sheep are sheep, calling others sheep does nothing but point out that you simply travel in a different herd and are in denial that you're a sheep yourself. How about backing up some 'facts', instead of posting fluff that nobody can either disprove or prove? I have no problem with you joining in on the conversation, Metachrosis, but each time you fail to provide any sort of information that could actually be used to inform people of the subject at hand.
 
Im not your mother, I refuse to spoon feed a few cynical clowns that choose to "prove" whats already proven.

You have an interest in something I post,Its you that then must do your own leg work to satisfy,prove or disprove to the level of understanding your good with until another distraction leads you off.If you cant find,its because your not looking.
Your sheep analogies are flawed,they might sound good and you may even think they fit a niche' but yah missed it!
There is no paranoid here,I fear none of this world
There are no MRE loaded bug-out packs here nor stashed anywhere else.

Once something is proven its no longer a theory,do you some how believe that attempting to discredit entitles you to a free phone?
I believe thats exactly how you think.
 
Tommy, this is a community, many here help each other with explanations and assistance.
You come here all the time and announce that the sky is falling, and call everyone sheeple.

There are people who provide links to the newbies who come here and say that their ball python is not eating. Sure they could research, and often they do, but sometimes asking the question here functions also in establishing relationships with peers because of common interests.
That's why we have all these forums. No one demands that anyone take the time to help those that ask questions on this site, but many including the questioner, very much appreciate when they do.

Tommy, I sympathize with you over your illness, and I think many here are a little gentler with you because of it. But the whole sheeple thing is getting pretty aggravating, if you don't want to get involved in helping people that is your choice, but to come mock them is a little over the top.
 
Your delusional chic,illness ?
I had an issue and it was corrected,full doctor release etc so you need to buy girl scout cookies else where.

What I post is of interest to me and a few others,casting pearls before swine is of benefit to whom?I am not in nor am I the keeper of the 47%
http://www.strike-the-root.com/pandoras-47
I have been as realistically government free for decades,being a citizen there are somethings you just cant shake.
That topic/discussion is posted several other places if the NEED should become traditionally over whelming,or for those driven by self interest to pursue and follow thru.

Back in the Ignore box with ya.
 
glad you saw fit to smear a booger on my karma page
its the direct likes of you that have driven more people from fauna the last 2 years.
Notice how progressively quite it gets in the OT forums,take a bow chic you OWN IT!

As was mentioned last week,if it wasnt for you "we" all wouldnt have gathered up
where we are now.
 
its the direct likes of you that have driven more people from fauna the last 2 years.

It is hard to take you seriously, Tommy. You point at almost everyone and call them sheeple. You point at me and call me the great Fauna decimator.
Membership has greatly increased here in the past couple years so I'm wondering at your grasp of the facts.

Honestly, you try to come off as big and bad but if a retired, aging school nurse can drive you (or anyone else) away from a site that prohibits (in most forums) cussing, belittling, and abusive posts, meaning that I say how I feel using ordinary, courteous language, I have to wonder how much allegiance you had to this site in the first place.
 
Warning: Both of you have a golden opportunity here and now to stop this personal spat before someone gets banned. Please heed this warning.


:NoNo:
 
Stop being a zombies wanting to be told what’s what
This is the problem with our country
Tell me what to dooooo, please I can’t find out for myself….it takes to long
Sorry but this is the way I see it….no offense


There are people as well as myself that are SICK of this,they are no longer on Fauna
because of the politically correct snipers that strongly attempt to get others to be who they want them to be,especially on controversial issues then play the hypocritical victim card.I didnt single anyone out in particular,I can not see who leaves karma hits
unless they sign off on them.

If the word/phrase "Sheeple" offends you,then maybe one should be abit more introspective regarding the allowed control and continued influence of the tyrannic US Government. . . . . again,nothing personal except my opinion.
 
People have a right to there own thoughts. That makes them human, Not Sheeple. If hanging around sheeple angers you then make yourself happy and find a sheeple bashing site and become a top sheeple basher.....
 
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