Evan Stahl Please pay me.

[ravensgait]

Again Evan as to your 1. 2. and 3. how about some proof of your accusations? As the old lady used to say Where's the BEEF. As has been said in the BOI many many a time you can type whatever you want here but if you want to be believed then post some proof.

Evan you would have been better off to not respond in this thread at all, you did and you threw out accusations and contradicted yourself and well here we are the pans getting hot and your jumping out. You may be a great stand up guy but for myself and others who read your post here on the BOI we only know you from what we see of you HERE on the BOI. Future customers we may have been but will we be now? Randy

 

[Jim O]

Again Evan as to your 1. 2. and 3. how about some proof of your accusations? As the old lady used to say Where's the BEEF. As has been said in the BOI many many a time you can type whatever you want here but if you want to be believed then post some proof.

Evan you would have been better off to not respond in this thread at all, you did and you threw out accusations and contradicted yourself and well here we are the pans getting hot and your jumping out. You may be a great stand up guy but for myself and others who read your post here on the BOI we only know you from what we see of you HERE on the BOI. Future customers we may have been but will we be now? Randy

One thing Lee said we know is true...

I know I was wrong to start this thread and I did it on a gentlemans bet with a few of Evans friends. I said if I put a polite request on the BOI what will I get? We all laughed and said Evan will come on and put his foot in his mouth. He will come up with so many reasons not to pay. and have all the lies to prove it. (in his mind)

I said I don't beleive it, I think He will come on and say "I have had a bad year and I need a little more time" Was I wrong.

Evan,

How you have handled yourself in this thread is vintage you. You're a hot head and you just can't resist a little bait. You should know better by now. You wind up rolling around in crap with the likes of Lee Watson or Anthony McCain and you come out smelling from it. Even when you're right in a dispute (BTW, read that other thread carefully and you will see that I agreed that you should get your money and your snake back) you come out looking like an ass. Albert Einstein said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". You evidently are no Einstein. When you are angry, back off from the keyboard. You are your own worst enemy.

 

[lanceheads]

Excellent point Jim!

 

[bamasmith]

There has been enough SH1T spread on this topic. LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!!!!
And as far as someone losing business because of Lee or Evans remarks,it is FAR WORSE when someone else who breeds and sells snakes gets on here and talks a bunch of crap about others problems.They are the ones who will lose business.So,as I stated above,LET THIS THRED DIE!!!!!

 

[Chameleon Company]

Justin, next time you feel that surge of wisdom and brilliance about to overwhelm you, how about grabbing a beer instead and just chilling .... cheers

 

[lanceheads]

and another excellent point!

 

[Classic Dum's]

what insanity

even:Lee, you allowed people to sell venomous animals and endangered animals at your show.

if I were Lee Id be file a civil suit right about now LIES

even:I could have lost many other animals from a very nasty virus they had if I had not put them in another room just in case. And I did not take them for free Lee.

Even you remeber contacting me I refused to sell you the monitors(reasons Ill get into later) and this topic of the rattles being brought up then? Do you also remeber admitting to me that you did have them for several months till the ONE died? ever stop to think maybe this virus came from you???? After several months I dont give a shit were the virus came from you need to pay for them.you didnt return them you kept them and if I remeber correctly it was ONE rattler that died and you killed the others for fear of this virus, funny you never mentioned the vet reports to me at that time, so why dont you pay him for those??? Why dont you tell the people why you never did pay him in full for those? Ahh because Lee being the good guy he is, he wanted to take care of you and he let you out of the debt

even: The city re-zoned Lee's property to get rid of his show. It was the cheapest way to solve the ongoing problems with him.

OK stupid, lets get it right, the lot next door to Lees was equal size, they developed it into 11mill worth of homes, the township looked at the amount of new tax revenues coming off the same size lot next door and said "wed like to see this from your property as well Lee so we are rezoning you" it was that simple and had nothing to do with the show, cut it with your lies

even: I offered to sell it for what it was worth in the market for him.

Did you Even?/?????? Funny you should state that because per your other ad from around that same time it would mean you would owe him somewhere in the area of 1k that was what you listed the one for so its safe to assume that was market value right? instead of $285 hes stating here, you should really shut up dude, no please dont your funny

Hey Even since your bickering over values on Page 8 someone posted and old ad of yours selling a croc monitor you had as a pet and decided to sell, you say the larger ones were only worth $500 at that time while babies were worth $1000 at that time right? Then why did you have a larger one priced at $1000 what 6-8 months later, I mean the larger ones were only worth $500 at the time you got it from Lee and considering the time you got it from Lee and offered the one I am asking about for sale the price should have gone down, SO i guess in simple terms what I am asking is how do you jusify a larger one doubling the values YOU have stated, is that what we call lies and deflection??????

even:It was assumed because I had a croc moinitor on the classifieds that it was the one I got from Lee, even though I had over 20 of them baby to large adult back then, and as I said in a previous statement, the animal I got from Lee I kept for over two years before I gave it to a local friend in trade. So let's see, 2003+2=2005. So again, another wrong assumption.

who cares please explain the differance of price values from above, is it only Lees large croc monitor that is worth $500 or all large croc monitors? ya know like the one you were selling for $1000

After presenting this "total Disgrace" of a human being with his plaque everyone gave him a standing ovation to further show their feelings. Without question,Lee has done more good for the Illinois herp community than anyone else period! Mark Petros

to ad to that if I remeber correctly it was like 1000+ giving Lee and standing ovation, maybe its just jeolousy im sure these guys will never get that kind of attention or be apreciated by so many, maybe thats why they have such negative things to say about somsone who has given so much to this trade

This thread will leave neither of you smelling like roses and if anything, is showcasing why a lot of people/vendors avoided your shows over the years.

humm seems to me 1000 average through the door TWICE A MONTH tables always full, well maybe one show a yr has an empty table or two, id say those FEW poeple you are talking about are making a huge mistake because thousands of others are enjoying twice a month

even: People who have nothing better to do than just lie, create their own facts and post whatever they want in response to things they know nothing about.

and the pot says...... "kettle your black" LOL

 

[Classic Dum's]

Now Even Im sure youll have some wonderfull things to ad about me. Just make sure to state things as they are, the only time you and I have ever communicated was when you wanted to buy some argus monitors I had, once I realized who you were I refused to deal with you for two reasons which I stated to you, one being the FACT that you have ripped Lee off once(IMO twice if you count the rattlers) and also because 2yrs ago at Tinley sunday morning you walked in to get bfast in the hotel ranting and raving talking shit about other dealers created a huge seen, myself my other half and two other tables full of people left without eating our full meals because non of us could stand to be in the same room as you, also because of the way you treated Chuck and Sue which Ill explain below, then two weeks later you contact me about the monitors off kingsnake and of course what you wanted was to pay me half the money, pick them up at Lees show because you were planning on doing the show(Lee wouldnt allow you because you owed him the money) and pay me the rest at a later date and this was what 2yrs after you left becasue it was such a horrible place or the raid or whatever. Oh and Even like Lee, I am one who has been known to keep emails so before you go on spueing your lies keep that in mind, if you do Ill look and see if I have them there is a remote and I do say remote possibility I might still have those emails, and I did foward all our emails to Lee so I wouldnt be surprised if he still has them as well.

Oh and let me ask do you remeber Chuck and Sue?? The ones who you sold a gaurenteed sexed pair of Argentines to, they raised them trusting your word never checked the sex, found out it was two males after the snakes tried to destroy each other during a breeding atempt, they brought them to you at Tinley explained you miss sexed them, asked if you could help them out by selling one so they could make room to go get a female, didnt ask for money back, just politly asked if you could help them since your the one that miss sexed them and what did you do???? In Even fashion, just like you did to Jim here, you went off and started cursing them out, right in the middle of the show, on and on about how you dont make mistakes and their f&^%in wrong for accusing you of this, the as$#oles switched them out etc, well bud I know chuck and sue well, and till that point they ONLY ever owned two argentines, the ones that came from you, I was the one who sold one of the males for them after they came to my table and Sue was crying because the way you treated them, I was the one who sent them to speak to Potter and Ashley about you.

and for those talking crap about Lee and the show, first off lee cant be everywhere all the time, if people are going to violate the law theres no way he can stop it all, when that raid went down it was 13 tickets till the end, and unlike other show promoters who have gone through raids and let the vendors all deal with it on there own(each pay for a lawyer), Lee being the horrible person he is, hired one lawyer and out of his OWN pocket paid for all the attorney fees for all the vendors, none of the vendors had to pay for lawyers Lee did it all, man what a horrible person

another thing a yr ago as I was packing up someone ripped two snakes off my table, when I realized it I went walking through the show to try and find them, I did, some lady was standing at a table with my tub and snakes in her hand I grabbed them out of her hand and started yelling for Lee, being pissed off and worked up I never realized she had 3 little kids standing next to her, anyway Lee comes listens to her story waits for me to calm down and explains to me, Well it turns out that the theif sold them to her in the parking lot, she came in to buy food for them, after talking to her I agreed and beleieved it was true, so lee says "Jason take your snakes, mam what did you pay for them?" she said $40 or something and he hands her the money, amazing how Lee is such a horrible person, all he wanted to do was take care of a vendor and customer of his show, now in the yrs I have been at Lees show I have seen alot more I could tell like the above, but honestly I think I have said more then needs to be and I dont think Lee needs to be defended, those of us who know, know, those who have negative things to say, well they must need someone to talk shit about, otherwise they would be with the THOUSANDS of us who attend, vend, make money, spend money and just down right enjoy his show UNLIKE any other show in the world TWICE a month.

Just my opinion as a prior attendie and current vendor of one of the greatest shows in the world!

 

[kmurphy]

Unfortunately, there is the train of thought that suggests that all proof has to be verifiable to this forum. Unfortunately, many times due to situations beyond one's control, this is not the case.

Then if you can't prove it keep it to yourself. For the most part verifiable proof is a must and especially here in Evan's case. No matter how many times you repeat an unsubstantiated accusation it doesn't become a fact. I am not sure that Evan knows possitively what he has said is the truth. He either just suspects that's what happened, or heard it from others who also didn't have proof. It is pretty convenient to fall back on these accusations to get out of paying off an old debt.

 

[Griz]

Then if you can't prove it keep it to yourself. For the most part verifiable proof is a must and especially here in Evan's case. No matter how many times you repeat an unsubstantiated accusation it doesn't become a fact. I am not sure that Evan knows possitively what he has said is the truth. He either just suspects that's what happened, or heard it from others who also didn't have proof. It is pretty convenient to fall back on these accusations to get out of paying off an old debt.

Not that I have the desire to add another post to this already dead horse but I can't walk away from this post.

Your comment is a bunch of bunk. Plain and simple. Do you honestly mean to tell me that in every situation you have been in that the information you utilized to formulate your game plan was verifiable? The BOI demanded to know how he arose at his decision to not pay this debt. If you did not want the answer then don't ask the question. Pretty simple isn't it?

Too many people buy into the idea that the BOI is applicable in all scenario's. Truth be told, it is applicable in less than half of the situations that arise. While it serves it purpose to let us know about the blatantly obvious scammers, of which I am grateful, it also showcases the fact that it is fallible. That it is NOT relevant in many situations. The BOI is NOT a god. It is a tool of which the operator needs to understand how to use it. Nothing more and nothing less.

If a good buddy explained to me that he saw firsthand the theft of an animal by John Doe, then you sure has Hell better believe that I will use that "heresay" in which to formulate my game plans. And you know what?...... So would you.

Griz

 

[kmurphy]

Do you honestly mean to tell me that in every situation you have been in that the information you utilized to formulate your game plan was verifiable?

Well, yes, that's exactly what I am trying to tell you. You even gave an example that is verifiable; an eye-witness. Evidently Evan wasn't so fortunate. Using your logic then anyone can cop out by stating "He's screwed me so many times I can't count. Why should I pay him?"

Obviously Bob, there are a lot of situations in life where you, me and anyone can use their gut feeling in order to decide which course of action to take. But, IMO, not on the BOI. I don't know Evan or Lee, so I am going to formulate my opinion based on the facts as presented. The facts, as I see them, are that Evan agreed he owed Lee the money but found a way to rationalize his decision to not pay him.

 

[Griz]

Well, yes, that's exactly what I am trying to tell you. You even gave an example that is verifiable; an eye-witness. Evidently Evan wasn't so fortunate. Using your logic then anyone can cop out by stating "He's screwed me so many times I can't count. Why should I pay him?"

Obviously Bob, there are a lot of situations in life where you, me and anyone can use their gut feeling in order to decide which course of action to take. But, IMO, not on the BOI. I don't know Evan or Lee, so I am going to formulate my opinion based on the facts as presented. The facts, as I see them, are that Evan agreed he owed Lee the money but found a way to rationalize his decision to not pay him.

And, if that eye witness does not want to come forward? Should Evan, or whomever, simply take the course of action of paying back the debt? What has become painfully obvious to most of the people here is that this situation is not cut and dry. It will not be resolved here. And, nobody is going to know what actually took place. Therefore, why even attempt to utilize this mess of a thread to formulate an opinion, especially regarding someone with the solid feedback that Evan has?

It just defies logic.

Griz

 

[Chameleon Company]

Griz,
Perhaps there is an eye-witness that is now quiet, and perhaps Evan knows to an absolute certainty that he does not owe money. Its a shame that he did not present himself better. It is about credibility, and besides the "aiding and abetting", which would be the only reason Evan would have needed in his heart of hearts if he was certain of it, even if he had no proof to share, he came here slinging all kinds of mud. I'll point to the stupidity of the sale of the property and zoning. Many of us knew what happened there, that it was a tax move by the county. Instead Evan has to huff-and-puff it like a horse's ass and indicate it as an example of (paraphrasing) "Lee running an unethical show and they found a way to shut him down". And its not the only example of where Evan seems to have been careless with his facts in attacking Lee's character. If Evan wants credibility in a "this is what I know but cannot show proof" scenario, maybe he can not shoot himself in the foot so badly next time, as another pointed out. If I had a great reason, why would I then surround it with so much babble? It leaves many of us with a very difficult time giving his story any merit, which has now been stated several times as "Evan being his own worst enemy". While he may have solid feedback elsewhere, he's smelling a bit like tuna here. Lee has an army of followers as well.

 

[Jim O]

Therefore, why even attempt to utilize this mess of a thread to formulate an opinion, especially regarding someone with the solid feedback that Evan has?

It just defies logic.

It seems there are some chinks in that "solid feedback" Bob. Or are you simply discounting everything that Jason Sweigart said?

What is clear from many of Evan's posts, including those in this thread, is that he is a hot head, prone to lose his cool, use profanity when he disagrees with someone, etc. Now that doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy but it does make me wonder a bit about how he would handle a dispute. Based on what I know he does provide some excellent animals but so do many other sellers who are known to have better dispute resolution skills.

As for Lee, he has his detractors here, for sure, but he also has some strong supporters. Just going on results only, because I don't know either party, he ran a very successful show for many years. He must have done something right. So this thread, to my eyes, is at best a he said/she said. Unless Evan can come up with some way to satisfy the questions posed here about the accusations that he chose to make then he looks like a deadbeat. As evidenced from posts in this thread and another, he also likes to buy animals on credit and/or on payments. That's fine, but I would certainly be hesitant to extend credit to him based on what I have read here. Now that's what seems clear (and logical) to me.

 

[ravensgait]

Griz you said""If a good buddy explained to me that he saw firsthand the theft of an animal by John Doe, then you sure has Hell better believe that I will use that "heresay" in which to formulate my game plans. And you know what?...... So would you.""


But then I doubt you'd be to offended when we asked your good buddy to post here to confirm what you were saying. Evan keeps saying things and then changing his story and offers nothing to back any of it up. I think Evans words and attitude here have done him far more harm than his not paying a debt. Randy

 

[Junkyard]

It seems there are some chinks in that "solid feedback" Bob. Or are you simply discounting everything that Jason Sweigart said?

What is clear from many of Evan's posts, including those in this thread, is that he is a hot head, prone to lose his cool, use profanity when he disagrees with someone, etc. Now that doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy but it does make me wonder a bit about how he would handle a dispute. Based on what I know he does provide some excellent animals but so do many other sellers who are known to have better dispute resolution skills.

That kind of attitude sure seems a lot similar to T~cough~S~cough~E. All the good feedback and all the attitude, in the end will only bite back, even at the slightest mistake made.

 

[John Apple]

Ya know when we all feel slighted as I am sure Evan did and Lee did.
We tend to go off a bit , some people might take a little more than others before they reach this point. Lee reached this point when the thread was started and Evan responded in a rather colorful way .
I have met Evan and I generally like him, never has he given me a reason to be offended, but then I have been called a hothead also so whatever
The point being both folks here are angry and showing it having reached their very own limits

 

[Chameleon Company]

Not a big fan of the cut-and-paste

But I am a huge fan of pointing out hypocrisy, especially when delivered from a soap box. Here are your words in the thread-starting post here Evan:

........ and with so many people refusing to post their bad experiences for fear of attack and humiliation I can now see this site has lost it's way and is not serving the purpose it was created for.

Here is the sum total of the "negative" words of another poster who began a thread about you in the BOI who chose to "post their bad experiences" regarding a $285 debt which they claimed that you owed.

Evan Stahl Please pay me

That's it. No other attacks on you in their thread starter. Without them posting again, or anyone else making a negative post against you, this was part of your initial reply:

...... Keep in mind that for many many years I defended *** and his show on the internet while it was getting blasted for being a filthy barn with a dirt parking lot. For having many vendors with sick and mite covered animals. For having vendors that were convicted drug dealers and poachers. I also bought many cages and animals from *** over the years and never had a problem .....

...... But *** talks about everyone behind their backs .....

.....I won't even go into details about the kid that *** let steal an albino burm from me.....

.....I stopped doing ***'s shows when the local, state and federal authorites raided ***'s show and found that he was allowing vendors to break piles of laws and ordinances at the show .....

...... I owe you nothing ***. You lied to me. You helped people steal from me. You cost me money in lost sales. You have slandered me for years thinking that people would not tell me what you were saying. You are classless and you have lost your show because you arrogantly allowed people to break the laws at your show because you bragged about having enough money and influence in your municipality that you could do what want. Now your show is yet another black eye on this business. Do you still sell venomous animals and native animals out of your house?

Do you want to bet that your additional posts in the thread contained additional "attack and humiliation" against *** who posted his bad experience with you ?

I wish you well with your animals and business, and as I have said many times, it is my belief that you take care of the vast majority of your customers, allowing that no one is perfect. I agree with you about the attacks on many who bring problems to the BOI. Thing is, you have recently demonstrated an indulgence in being a part of what you condemn. Happy trails.

 

[Chameleon Company]

My bad, this was meant for another thread regarding the particulars in the feedback forum. I will post it there as well.