shelliebear
"Strongly Disliked"
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Info Everegreen Pet Supply in Spokane Valley...sick rodents!
- Thread starter shelliebear
- Start date
Show Me
New member
I believe you did know they were going to be dumped. That's my opinion.
Tim Cole
CLOSED ACCOUNT
The obvious solution which was hinted at but not stressed...BUY FROZEN RATS!
Safer for your snakes, cheaper, and way more convenient.
Safer for your snakes, cheaper, and way more convenient.
capt._howdy
im a two headed horse MOO
well honestly it doesnt matter now since they were all Shell can do now is buy f/t to avoid this in the future
deborahbroadus
HARD CANDY
A look-at-me thread? Are you kidding me?
No offense but I don't really want YOU looking at me anyway. You bother me a lot. You didn't have to open the page.
If I want attention, believe me, I know how to get it, and I don't think it would be from any of you.
But I feel honored that you invented that whole idea just for me.
Ok, Shellie, if you don't want me looking at you, and I "bother" you don't send another PM looking for advice.Bottomline, you have gotten some good advice here, and much more tactfully than I would have put it. I dislike hearing someone down another business on such filmsy excuses without evidence even if it's called an Info thread. You still should have provided information in the form of the "mucus" that you claim to have seen, the VISIBLE symptoms that you claim were present.
None of these rats show any visible evidence of the visible symptoms that you claim they had. Personally, my first thought was you were ticked off because your snakes wouldn't eat the rats, so were trying to get your money back, but I could be wrong, I often am.
Have a good day, Shellie.
Wolfy-hound
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The bottom line is you KNEW you weren't to bring rats in.
You mentioned the rats you got "the other day" and also rats you got "last week" all of which you said you were worried to feed to your snakes because you thought they were all sick. Where were those rats being held for that week and for the few days? This was 12-24.
On 12-27 you state the store wouldn't take them back and your mom wouldn't allow them in the house.
So where exactly were these rats for the 4 days between AND the 2 days to 1 week previous to your post about how they seemed sick? Obviously they were not in the house, and again, if it was a suitable place outside the house, why would it have suddenly been important that they couldn't come IN the house? You had kept them for a week(up to nearly two weeks) already outside of the house.
Sounds to me like a giant hole in your story. You have a habit of not quite filling in the holes in the dramatic stories. I'd really like to know where they were kept and why it was an issue to bring them inside AFTER you found you couldn't get your money back.
You mentioned the rats you got "the other day" and also rats you got "last week" all of which you said you were worried to feed to your snakes because you thought they were all sick. Where were those rats being held for that week and for the few days? This was 12-24.
On 12-27 you state the store wouldn't take them back and your mom wouldn't allow them in the house.
So where exactly were these rats for the 4 days between AND the 2 days to 1 week previous to your post about how they seemed sick? Obviously they were not in the house, and again, if it was a suitable place outside the house, why would it have suddenly been important that they couldn't come IN the house? You had kept them for a week(up to nearly two weeks) already outside of the house.
Sounds to me like a giant hole in your story. You have a habit of not quite filling in the holes in the dramatic stories. I'd really like to know where they were kept and why it was an issue to bring them inside AFTER you found you couldn't get your money back.
Show Me
New member
Deborah wrote:
That is exactly what I think happened! I hope the owners of the store refuse to sell her anymore rats and I hope she only buys frozen from now on so no more rats will be tossed on the street.
That is exactly what I think happened! I hope the owners of the store refuse to sell her anymore rats and I hope she only buys frozen from now on so no more rats will be tossed on the street.
Jadenkisses
Dendrosapien
I have to agree that those rats do not look sick.
Rats sneeze- especially when they are kept on Aspen bedding or any other type of wood shavings. The dust gets in their noses and fur, and they'll continue to sneeze for a while even after you remove the bedding and replace it with something else.
It also could've been that it was too cold for them.
And it was irresponcible of you to bring those rats into your home when you knew your parents did not approve of them being kept in the house.
But furthermore, you have presented absolutely no evidence that there was anything wrong with the rats.
Why is it that some people think they don't have to provide any proof to back up what they are saying if it's just an 'info thread' and not a 'bad guy' thread?
You still have to show proof if you want people to believe what you're saying.
Rats sneeze- especially when they are kept on Aspen bedding or any other type of wood shavings. The dust gets in their noses and fur, and they'll continue to sneeze for a while even after you remove the bedding and replace it with something else.
It also could've been that it was too cold for them.
And it was irresponcible of you to bring those rats into your home when you knew your parents did not approve of them being kept in the house.
But furthermore, you have presented absolutely no evidence that there was anything wrong with the rats.
Why is it that some people think they don't have to provide any proof to back up what they are saying if it's just an 'info thread' and not a 'bad guy' thread?
You still have to show proof if you want people to believe what you're saying.
shelliebear
"Strongly Disliked"
Because I have no proof, is why I posted an info thread.
I wanted to share my experience and people can do with it what they wish.
I am not, after hearing so many opinions that the rats were not sick, trying to get people to not buy from the store.
Just look them over before you buy them.
I didn't THINK to take photos of the rats when I bought them at the store because I didn't KNOW they were sick.
When I got home and saw they were sneezing, I put them in my temporary tub, cleaned out the bigger tub, and moved them in there.
the ones from last week I did feed to my snakes. The ones from the other day I did not because it was the second time the sneezing had occurred and I was more aware to the fact that something might be going on.
so I didn't feed those ones...
Besides, BOI threads--all they are is one person posting emails and 50 million pages of YOU guys posting your opinions, ANYWAY. You have no proof, you just read the emails and make opinionated statements about them and what should be done.
I just threw out my experience and I gave what I had--the photos of the rats when I had them, and they're not sick. More likely according to the users on here it sounds like they had new home snuffles. I misdiagnosed them--I'm not a vet. But I hear sniffles and it doesn't sound good to me, in any case.
Wolfy-Hound, you have quite a reputation yourself. Don't think that several of us from other websites haven't noticed your attitude towards discussion topics. We have.
Anyway. That was my experience with them, and all I want people to know is just check your feeders over before you buy them.
Thanks.
I wanted to share my experience and people can do with it what they wish.
I am not, after hearing so many opinions that the rats were not sick, trying to get people to not buy from the store.
Just look them over before you buy them.
I didn't THINK to take photos of the rats when I bought them at the store because I didn't KNOW they were sick.
When I got home and saw they were sneezing, I put them in my temporary tub, cleaned out the bigger tub, and moved them in there.
the ones from last week I did feed to my snakes. The ones from the other day I did not because it was the second time the sneezing had occurred and I was more aware to the fact that something might be going on.
so I didn't feed those ones...
Besides, BOI threads--all they are is one person posting emails and 50 million pages of YOU guys posting your opinions, ANYWAY. You have no proof, you just read the emails and make opinionated statements about them and what should be done.
I just threw out my experience and I gave what I had--the photos of the rats when I had them, and they're not sick. More likely according to the users on here it sounds like they had new home snuffles. I misdiagnosed them--I'm not a vet. But I hear sniffles and it doesn't sound good to me, in any case.
Wolfy-Hound, you have quite a reputation yourself. Don't think that several of us from other websites haven't noticed your attitude towards discussion topics.
We have.Anyway. That was my experience with them, and all I want people to know is just check your feeders over before you buy them.
Thanks.
shelliebear
"Strongly Disliked"
(and aside from the sneezing, there was not any thing else wrong with that store that I could see, FYI.)
bobtard
Rishadan Geckos
Do they have any relation to Evergreen Reptiles, or no? They're both located in spokane.
shelliebear
"Strongly Disliked"
No they do not.
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
Wolfy-Hound, you have quite a reputation yourself. Don't think that several of us from other websites haven't noticed your attitude towards discussion topics.
Anyway. That was my experience with them, and all I want people to know is just check your feeders over before you buy them.
Thanks.
Somehow, I doubt that she or anyone here cares much what you and several others "from other websites" think of her.
Do Mom or Dad mind if you keep frozen rats in the freezer?
bobtard
Rishadan Geckos
Ok, thank you for clearing that up.
BigTattoo
New member
Do they have any relation to Evergreen Reptiles, or no? They're both located in spokane.
The second post in this thread was from Evergreen Reptile stating there is no relationship between the two.
Rats can be carriers of a disease called leptospirosus. The form rats carry is not a concern to humans or reptiles. The symptoms are exactly as described by the OP. Sniffling, sneezing, clicking or raspy breathing. Quite often they may appear as though they have or had a bloody nose. Rats exposed to this that survive are always carriers and can contaminate non infected rats. Many factors determine whether recently infected rats may live or die.
Lab rats that have no infections or much in the way of an immune system normally die when exposed. Feeder/pet store rats quite often make it through the first stages of infection and recover to be carriers. Pet stores don't buy their rats from labs. They either get them from big distributors or sometimes from hobbyist and local breeders. Distributor rats most often are already infected and are carriers quite often showing no signs of infection by the time we buy them as feeders. Sometimes pet shops will buy excess babies from customers that have no room for them and these can be healthy rats that get infected by the distributor rats already in the store.
The one sign you can look for in carrier rats is to look at the nostrils and if it appears there is any blood there, they are carriers. They may show no other signs or symptoms and this may not be visible in all carrier rats.
There is no danger to humans or reptiles and these rats are perfectly good to use as feeders.
If you are looking for breeding stock to start or add to a colony do not buy any rats showing these symptoms. If your local pet shops rats are sneezing, rattling breathing, bloody looking noses do not add these to your colony or you may lose them all.
You can't really blame the pet shop. I know I had a shop and it's hard to find enough rats to keep customers supplied with feeders. So they have no choice than to buy from distributors or tell you "sorry I have nothing to feed your snakes." The big box shops will not sell rodents as feeders which is one reason their rodents have such high price tags. So that leaves most of us to get our rodents from Mom and Pop shops which will sell feeders.
I don't blame the shop for not taking the rats back. Customers will buy pets without parents permission and be told to take them back. Buy feeders that their snakes don't eat and want to return them. Don't care for them properly, they get sick from the improper care and the customer wants to blame the shop and return them. So many reasons why people try to return animals.
Just ask yourselves how often here on the BOI you see OPs coming on and starting bad guy threads and it turns out the OP is the bad guy. Not the breeder/dealer, not the pet store, the customer.
How long is a shop going to stay in business selling "loaner" rats in case your snake doesn't eat them? If a shop has clean rats and a customer wants to return them when their snakes don't eat. How is the shop to know they haven't been infected, gotten mites or any number of things that can affect every rat in their shop. I've seen it happen all too often.
If you don't believe me go back and re-read this thread and see the actions of a "responsible" reptile owner. One those rats should have been disposed of humanely and frozen. Two this thread should never have been started as there has been no proof the rats were sick and not just reacting to dusty bedding or other allergens. I'm not saying for a fact they weren't sick just that there is no proof. With 'repsponsible" pet owners like the OP how does a pet shop protect themselves and their animals with an open door return policy?
The above information on Lepto is for educational purposes and not an indication that was what was wrong with the OPs rats. It could have just been dusty bedding. Who knows?
The second post in this thread was from Evergreen Reptile stating there is no relationship between the two.
Rats can be carriers of a disease called leptospirosus. The form rats carry is not a concern to humans or reptiles. The symptoms are exactly as described by the OP. Sniffling, sneezing, clicking or raspy breathing. Quite often they may appear as though they have or had a bloody nose. Rats exposed to this that survive are always carriers and can contaminate non infected rats. Many factors determine whether recently infected rats may live or die.
Lab rats that have no infections or much in the way of an immune system normally die when exposed. Feeder/pet store rats quite often make it through the first stages of infection and recover to be carriers. Pet stores don't buy their rats from labs. They either get them from big distributors or sometimes from hobbyist and local breeders. Distributor rats most often are already infected and are carriers quite often showing no signs of infection by the time we buy them as feeders. Sometimes pet shops will buy excess babies from customers that have no room for them and these can be healthy rats that get infected by the distributor rats already in the store.
The one sign you can look for in carrier rats is to look at the nostrils and if it appears there is any blood there, they are carriers. They may show no other signs or symptoms and this may not be visible in all carrier rats.
There is no danger to humans or reptiles and these rats are perfectly good to use as feeders.
If you are looking for breeding stock to start or add to a colony do not buy any rats showing these symptoms. If your local pet shops rats are sneezing, rattling breathing, bloody looking noses do not add these to your colony or you may lose them all.
You can't really blame the pet shop. I know I had a shop and it's hard to find enough rats to keep customers supplied with feeders. So they have no choice than to buy from distributors or tell you "sorry I have nothing to feed your snakes." The big box shops will not sell rodents as feeders which is one reason their rodents have such high price tags. So that leaves most of us to get our rodents from Mom and Pop shops which will sell feeders.
I don't blame the shop for not taking the rats back. Customers will buy pets without parents permission and be told to take them back. Buy feeders that their snakes don't eat and want to return them. Don't care for them properly, they get sick from the improper care and the customer wants to blame the shop and return them. So many reasons why people try to return animals.
Just ask yourselves how often here on the BOI you see OPs coming on and starting bad guy threads and it turns out the OP is the bad guy. Not the breeder/dealer, not the pet store, the customer.
How long is a shop going to stay in business selling "loaner" rats in case your snake doesn't eat them? If a shop has clean rats and a customer wants to return them when their snakes don't eat. How is the shop to know they haven't been infected, gotten mites or any number of things that can affect every rat in their shop. I've seen it happen all too often.
If you don't believe me go back and re-read this thread and see the actions of a "responsible" reptile owner. One those rats should have been disposed of humanely and frozen. Two this thread should never have been started as there has been no proof the rats were sick and not just reacting to dusty bedding or other allergens. I'm not saying for a fact they weren't sick just that there is no proof. With 'repsponsible" pet owners like the OP how does a pet shop protect themselves and their animals with an open door return policy?
The above information on Lepto is for educational purposes and not an indication that was what was wrong with the OPs rats. It could have just been dusty bedding. Who knows?
JHB1982
New member
Shellie,
I would recommend using local breeders over a pet store. If you want to shoot me over pm I can give you the contact info of a couple of rodent breeders and the one pet store I would go to there for your feeders.
If you can get your snakes to eat f/t it is also much less of a hassle as you can just store them in the freezer and then thaw them out when it comes time to feeding. I also have snakes that only eat live or freshly killed rodents so I understand what it's like trying to find a reliable source of live rodents without breeding them yourself.
I would recommend using local breeders over a pet store. If you want to shoot me over pm I can give you the contact info of a couple of rodent breeders and the one pet store I would go to there for your feeders.
If you can get your snakes to eat f/t it is also much less of a hassle as you can just store them in the freezer and then thaw them out when it comes time to feeding. I also have snakes that only eat live or freshly killed rodents so I understand what it's like trying to find a reliable source of live rodents without breeding them yourself.
Wolfy-hound
New member
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- Keystone Heights, Florida
Wolfy-Hound, you have quite a reputation yourself. Don't think that several of us from other websites haven't noticed your attitude towards discussion topics.
QUOTE]
Yes I'm aware of the good reputation I have, it's publicly available and seen when I'm greeted when I come to chat. It's also seen in my reputation on websites as well, so the "several" of you are welcome to accuse, I'd love to see all your proof of all my "attitudes". Please.. feel free. I use Wolfhound, Wolfyhound and slight variations including a hyphen across the net. I don't hide anywhere.. so.. let's see?
I'll also note that you never answered where you kept those rats. Why would you avoid answering why the rats were outside the house for a week but suddenly needed to be inside but couldn't so they were released?
Perhaps I was supposed to run away weeping at the thought that you.. oh sorry, the "several" of you... have "noticed my attitude"? Sorry. I asked you questions you avoided on two websites so far. Perhaps I was supposed to burst into tears at the thought of how terribly upset you were over the feeder rats that mysteriously you cared about once people started saying it was wrong to release them rather than humanely kill them. You'll have to fill me in on exactly how I'm supposed to act for the more dramatic effect, it's not a natural inclination that I have.
Sooo, how about where those rats were being kept in late december in Washington while they were so sick-looking that you were crying with concern?
bobtard
Rishadan Geckos
Wait, Wolfy-Hound, didn't you use to visit Rick Siscos site when it was up?
Wolfy-hound
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I don't want to post off-topic, but when it was active and Rick still had tegus I did.
Also, on topic, most all feeder rats are not likely to get vet care because once the vet starts giving medication, I'm not sure many folks would want to feed them to their reptiles, because drugs to treat issues in mammals are often bad for reptiles. In addition to the cost of a vet visit, but even if a store wanted to use OTC medication.
Also, on topic, most all feeder rats are not likely to get vet care because once the vet starts giving medication, I'm not sure many folks would want to feed them to their reptiles, because drugs to treat issues in mammals are often bad for reptiles. In addition to the cost of a vet visit, but even if a store wanted to use OTC medication.
reticguy76
Well-known member
actually a good amount of medications used to treat mammals are used to treat reptiles, especially antibiotics
as we treat mammals, rodents and reptiles with many many human drugs.
we treat all the above (exception of humans) in my veterinary clinic(s) daily.
as we treat mammals, rodents and reptiles with many many human drugs.
we treat all the above (exception of humans) in my veterinary clinic(s) daily.