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Exotic pets. Bad business/bad guy

Junkyard said:
I know the difference, CH refers to eggs and CB refers to live birth. I have found two websites claiming CB columbian tegus for sale. A lot of pet stores do get in a lot of babies bred in homes that do not sell on line or as a hobby, it just happened. I will wait for Ken's response.
Click to expand...

Well tegus hatch, and there is also no such thing as a Black and "White" Colombian tegu. There is no white in their true name, there are Colombian Gold tegus or Colombian Black tegus. The White was added later to scam, not just by Ken, but by many.

Also Mike, just because you found sites that sell them, that does not make it true.
 
Large commercial collections = mites, so what?

I have known Ken Foose for over 18 years. Ken and I have not always seen eye to eye, but one thing I can say about Ken is he is passionate about his herps. This man has dedicated more time and effort towards promoting herpers rights, keeping a herp society active and going while he always makes time to help point newby herpers in good solid directions, many of them academically. His bussiness is one of retail herps, and ANYONE who can maintain the collection that Ken does without mites please give me a call.

If his add states captive bred, then they were farm bred or bred by one of THE MANY serious keepers and breeders Ken knows. It sounded to me like Ken made good on a snake, where I know literally 100's of dealers who would not have.

If you have concerns or questions Ken would I have no doubt the time to talk to you via phone and answer them.

Too many people want to slam everyone, we as a group need to get over that. Keepers who want only sterile captive animals that have never been exposed to other animals will find that they are limited to VERY few species, and facilities, not too mention prices.

Our rights are being eroded faster and faster, if we do not begin to communicate through positive methods without attacks it makes us easier to seperate and continue to pick off.

-Riley Campbell
 
I have only dealt with Exoctic pets Las Vegas once. (RECENTLY)
They posted captive BRED V.Jobiensis, I asked them to prove thay were captive bred...they could not!

Captive breeding of New Guinea Varanids is a pretty rare event, and anybody who knows anything about Varanids would indeed be able to provide the buyer with a photo of breeding(copulation)
sm7ddz.jpg

, egg laying,
20ghc88.jpg

eggs incubating,
egv2g1.jpg

eggs hatching
oj1irs.jpg

yet they could provide none of the above!

One photo like mine would have sealed the deal and I would have bought every one available!!!

I have bred them twice now and have thousands of photos!
If someone is claiming an animal to be captive bred (CB) they should be able to back up such claims.
That is why (in the Varanid world) any proud breeder claims (CBB) captive BRED and BORN!

Ask these question and if you get no photos...chances are the were farm hatched and imported.
Just my 2 cents
Mike Stefani
Mike's Monitors!
 
I disagree, CB means Captive Bred.
CH means captive hatched from a wild-caught already gravid snake that laid eggs IN captivity.

Randal
 
And just for the record Ken is a good guy and I wish he could have produced photos!
At $300 a pop for CAPTIVE BRED and BORN would have been a great deal!
Again too bad!
Imports at $150 to $250.
Again my 2 cents
Mike Stefani
Mike's Monitors!
 
Mike,
Aren't your's one of like only 4 or 5 captive breedings of peachthroates ever? Those are awesome. Wish I knew you had them when they were available.

Bobby,
You focusing on schemantics. Fact is, CB is used a LOT lately to refer to animals not born in the U.S. from captive animals. Wait until all the BP eggs hatch from the gravid female imports over the next 2 months. I can almost guarentee that the people who were recently selling gravid adults will have ads up for CB babies from those adults.
You may think CB means born from captive parents in the states but unfortunately that is not how most advertise them anymore. Is it right? It's a grey area IMO.
 
lanceheads said:
I disagree, CB means Captive Bred.
CH means captive hatched from a wild-caught already gravid snake that laid eggs IN captivity.

Randal
Click to expand...

This is an excellent post in the matter from a person whose knowledge I respect. This was written in 2003 but IMHO it's a must read:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16714

Riley, you have brought an excellent point. We tend to focus too much on the negative and that's probably used against us.

Best regards :)
 
Peachthroats have been CBB, 3 times that I know of.
Mine back in the 90's, Richard Ginn (Don't recall him hatching any) and mine again last year.
I have been involved in the Varanid world for over 10 years, INTERNATIONALLY so chances are slim someone CBB them without my knowledge...I suppose it could have happend, thus my asking for photographic proof.
I am sitting on to gravid females, actually waiting WITH my CAMERA for a nesting photo session tonight!
V.Jobiensis are my favorite Varanids!
Mike Stefani
Mike's Monitors!
 
If a retailer is buying a group of animals to sell in their store or online, they do not always ask for pictures to keep around in case someone questions if the babies are CB, CBB, WC, CH, C, R, etc. I really do not know of many that even want photos just in case one person asks for them when they also have other sales to deal with that day.

For a private breeder, it is expected, for a retailer it is not.
 
Junkyard said:
I know the difference, CH refers to eggs and CB refers to live birth.
Click to expand...
In case no one got it, that was my attempt at humor.
 
Junkyard said:
If a retailer is buying a group of animals to sell in their store or online, they do not always ask for pictures to keep around in case someone questions if the babies are CB, CBB, WC, CH, C, R, etc. I really do not know of many that even want photos just in case one person asks for them when they also have other sales to deal with that day.

For a private breeder, it is expected, for a retailer it is not.
Click to expand...


Again when it comes to commonly imported and VERY RARELY bred New Guinea Varanids WE WANT PROOF!
Ken know this.
Again just for the record Ken told me they were CBB by a very reputible breeder...so by your own addmission the photos would have been easy and in your own words EXPECTED for him to get.
If I were to sell my CBB Peachthroats they would be MUCH more than an import!!
Mike Stefani
Mike's Monitors!
 
Mike's Monitors said:
Again when it comes to commonly imported and VERY RARELY bred New Guinea Varanids WE WANT PROOF!
Ken know this.
Again just for the record Ken told me they were CBB by a very reputible breeder...so by your own addmission the photos would have been easy and in your own words EXPECTED for him to get.
If I were to sell my CBB Peachthroats they would be MUCH more than an import!!
Mike Stefani
Mike's Monitors!
Click to expand...
They may have been easy for him to get, but just because YOU or Bobby want proof, that does not mean he has them. By my own admission, he is a retailer, not a private breeder. Why would he give you the name of the breeder if you may just end up going to that guy and buying from that breeder? If I want a Varnyard Tegu, I will go to Bobby, not a retailer.

Again, for a private breeder it is expected, not a retailer. Ken is in the retail business. If you do not understand the meaning behind my post, do not go twisting it to fit your own agenda.

Why should he go hunt down the breeder because YOU want pictures? He can sell them to someone else who is not as picky as you.
 
For the record, there has never been any Colombian tegus bred in captivity that I know of, there are also no records of such anywhere.
 
If the guy was a REPUTIBLE breeder he would have been posting his OWN photos AND asking alot more than the price of an import!
IT IS VARANID HISTORY, if you had any knowledge of Captive Breeding Varanids we would not be having this conversation.
Again one photo and I would or anybody would have been more than happy to pay TWICE as much.

I have no other agenda than to build a breeding group of CBB V,Jobiensis and these clearly are not!
Ken is still a good guy in my book!
Thats all I have left to say.
I have Monitors to tend to, and they are ALOT of work!
Mike Stefani
Mike's Monitors
 
Also, tegus are not Varanids, they are not even close to being in the same family as monitors, and are from a totally different group of Squamata (Lizards). Tegus are from the family of Teiidaes and the Genus is Tupinambis, they are not Varanids.
 
varnyard said:
For the record, there has never been any Colombian tegus bred in captivity that I know of, there are also no records of such anywhere.
Click to expand...


Funny you brought this up bro. I was at the Columbus show and Cleveland Show last month as always. There were some very small Columbian tegus on the Kick Brothers tables. I looked at them and said I have never seen them this small did you guys hatch them. John said nope they came in off the boat like this. They were nice looking and small little fellows. But John said they were WC or hatched over seas somewhere.

They were cool though. I thought of you when I seen them lol.
 
Gary O said:
Funny you brought this up bro. I was at the Columbus show and Cleveland Show last month as always. There were some very small Columbian tegus on the Kick Brothers tables. I looked at them and said I have never seen them this small did you guys hatch them. John said nope they came in off the boat like this. They were nice looking and small little fellows. But John said they were WC or hatched over seas somewhere.

They were cool though. I thought of you when I seen them lol.
Click to expand...

Yea, really they would be too much trouble to breed. These tegus clutches are only 8 to 10 hatchlings per clutch, unlike the Argentines that can produce up to 50. They are also very cheap imports, at 10.00 - 15.00 dollars tops off the boat, however I have seen them for 8.00 before.
 
Mike's Monitors said:
If the guy was a REPUTIBLE breeder he would have been posting his OWN photos AND asking alot more than the price of an import!
IT IS VARANID HISTORY, if you had any knowledge of Captive Breeding Varanids we would not be having this conversation.
Again one photo and I would or anybody would have been more than happy to pay TWICE as much.

I have no other agenda than to build a breeding group of CBB V,Jobiensis and these clearly are not!
Ken is still a good guy in my book!
Thats all I have left to say.
I have Monitors to tend to, and they are ALOT of work!
Mike Stefani
Mike's Monitors
Click to expand...
Yelling at your computer screen over this issue is really only wasting your breath. I have no idea who you are too. If you are curious, I can care less about Varanids. I also know of reputable breeders who sell their animals to retailers and on their own, all at the same time.

You need to relax, your beef needs to be with Ken, not me. You did not get your photo, you did not pay for an animal, you did not get ripped off. From what I can gather, your feelings were hurt because you were hopping for a good deal that you did not get. I have no idea if Ken is misrepresenting animals or not, if reality you are not all that sure yourself, you are going off of a hunch that up to this point has not proven anything. You may be right, if so I will give you karma. I can admit to being wrong, can you?

I am going to stay out of this thread until Ken replies and I happen to have something to add.
 
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