Bad Guy Exotic Pets (Ken Foose)

[Spectrum Reptiles]

Come on...........

I rarely post on here, because of these types of situations, but felt I have to step in. I have never met Ken, so I have to loyalties to him at all. HOWEVER, if a guy is going to refund your money without any hitches, then what are you complaining about??????

I sold a snake to a guy years ago and he wasn't happy with it because it didn't eat within 48hrs after receiving it.(common, it's stressed). So, he complains and I refund his money in full because it wasn't worth the trouble and it's obvious he's a rookie snake keeper. The guy STILL decides to bad mouth me on the BOI AFTER I promptly refund his money!!! WTF???

Please people, only post if someone stiffs you. If someone refunds your money, why are you complaining???? Find something better to do. We all want to be informed about BAD people, but this is just a waste of time and energy really.

Barry Lambert
Spectrum Reptiles

 

[Ken Foose]

Hi again. Just to clarify, I did indeed offer to refund the price of the boa and the shipping because of the tip of the tail missing. She declined the offer. I told her, believe it or not, that I would not refund shipping at all when she informed me she wanted to return the snake because it was "mean". I did not expect to be dragged through the mud for $35. But this is how it is. If I make a mistake, such as I did with the snakes tail, I make up for that mistake. When someone has buyers remorse because they don't like the disposition of an animal, or they don't like the color or shape, or anything else, I offer them a refund on the animal, and nothing more. Nothing else was promised or implied in any way. If you walk into my store and get to hold and smell and feel and see in your hands an animal, and later you bring it back, I issue a store credit only and then on top of that I subtract 20% as a restocking fee. This is in my TOS that I require everyone to read and sign before they leave with any animal. The internet is different. You don't get to hold the animal in your hand, or feel it, or watch it eat. Perhaps it's not really the color you expected. Or size. Or whatever. I issue a refund for the animal. If it's something that I'm at fault for such as a missing tail tip that I did not notice, I offer a refund for both the animal and the shipping to the customer. I offered this to this customer and she said the tail did not bother her. She was just trying to get a discount. I understand this, and really can relate. But I never agreed to refund for the shipping, either there or back because she did not like the personality of the snake. I have no plans on doing so now. It's a very nice, calm Argentine Boa, and it will make someone a great pet. Anyone of my local customers reading this are more then welcome to come and reach into the enclosure and pick it up and see for themselves.

 

[Ken Foose]

Just one more point, sorry. I promise I'm done after this. I get between 60 and 80 emails a day. I make it a point to answer each and every one of them the day I get them. I do not save emails unless I need to do so to remind me of something that I need to do. I never lost her emails, I never saved them. I would pull them up if I could. They tell me that they are in my computer somewhere, but beats me where or how to find them. My computer saves 100 emails, and then they go away. I'm not sure where they go, but they are replaced by new ones, and these too go away once they reach the 100 mark. Computer wiz I am not. So, just saying that I'm not hiding anything or trying to pull a fast one.

Night

 

[superkent121]

You can't say that she had "buyer's remorse" when, if you look at the time stamp of the two e-mails sent by Ken Foose, they are only a day apart. If it took like a month for her to make the decision then that could come up, but after a day? There might have been adding issues that made the decision easier to make, because, for one, she would be losing 40 or 50 dollars in the process of shipping due to "UNSATIFACTORY CONDITIONS" of the animal. And to say that you need to make a decision within the secound is absurd. She was losing money in the process and that would make anybody weary of making such a decision.

And it appears that this isn't the first time Mr. Foose sold an animal in "UNSATIFACTORY CONDITIONS."

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/167/RipOff0167236.htm


Mr. Foose, just stop beating around the bush and do the right thing and refund both shipping costs, which any GREAT breeder would do for the their customers. Ask any breeder what they would do if an animal was returned in "UNSATIFACTORY CONDITIONS".

Matthew Troncoso

 

[rattyrugrats]

Okay, since I guess I wasn't clear in my first post, I will reiterate. I emailed Ken about the missing tail tip regarding viable solutions. He offered me a refund on the snake, including the shipping cost, but minus the cost of shipping him back. I really didn't want to be out the cost of shipping him back due to the animal not being as it was described, since it was obviously not my fault. I asked if there was any other way to handle the situation, such as a slight discount, but he said no. So, I figured, if he was decent in all other aspects, I could forgive the discrepancy. But he turned out to be aggressive as well, which Ken said he was not. So, with both of these factors, both of which I had not been informed about, even after inquiry, I decided to return him. I even informed Ken the previous Friday that I would be shipping him out on Monday to avoid any weekend troubles if they arose. He said okay and to just ship him back to the address in his signature. He NEVER mentioned that he was not going to refund my money. I can post the emails if necessary but they are short and give pretty much the same information I posted here. And it is not for $35, it is for the original shipping cost of $45 plus the return shipping cost of $50, for a total loss of $95!
So, with all of this in mind, am I not getting stiffed? I understand that Ken has a larger reputation than I do, as I am not a breeder so I have not had a lot of transactions, but do not ignore the facts that are right in front of you! I have no doubt that he has had good transactions, as he would have to in order to stay in business, but isn't the definition of a good seller one that tries to make things right? Especially when the fault is their own, such as not noticing/informing a customer about a flaw in the animal? I tried to ask him for other solutions to make this right, but he said no. He was not willing to try to work anything else out besides me returning the snake for a $95 loss to me. He did not take a loss at all.
And last, if you run a business, you should be organized. Loss or misplacement of emails should not be an issue.

Jessica Miller

 

[Seamus Haley]

Things like this are one of the reasons I am not that active in the discussion forums.

The behavior of a snake is dictated by instinctive responses to stimulus. Change the stimulus and you change the response.

Ken is in no way responsible for an inexperienced buyer providing stimulus that prompt defensive responses. "Pet it with a plastic hanger" tells me everything I really need to know... Jessica, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to reptile behavior. You wanted to return an animal because you were too damn dumb to understand that it's behaviors were directly caused by your behaviors and you wanted... what? Something to love and hold and pet and cuddle? Go buy a puppy, don't blame the guy who sold you an animal because you were too stupid to learn what you were buying before you bought it.

Absolutely a case of buyer's remorse. Jessica bought an animal she had absolutely no clue about then became scared of it when she instigated a defensive response through her overwhelming ignorance. Ken shouldn't take a financial loss on the shipping just because his buyer ordered an animal they later decided they couldn't handle/didn't want.

 

[ms_terese]

You can't say that she had "buyer's remorse" when, if you look at the time stamp of the two e-mails sent by Ken Foose, they are only a day apart. If it took like a month for her to make the decision then that could come up, but after a day?

No, she received the snake on Feb. 27 and returned it on Mar. 9, that's 10 days, not one.

 

[MikeCurtin]

If I was Ken, I would have offered a refund which included shipping both ways in the case of an injured or physically imperfect animal. The snake was missing its tail tip, he didn't catch it, he's responsible. Unfortunately, his TOS, which the buyer agreed to, states otherwise. Could he make an exception? Absolutely! Does he have to? Nope.

On the other hand, the imperfect tail was not the reason for the return...it may have been a factor, but the reason for the return was the snake's disposition. If I was selling a snake which I knew from first-hand experience to be calm and passive, and after purchase, the buyer told me she was retuning it because it was overly aggressive, I would not foot the bill for he shipping either way. The fact remains that it's a snake...as Seamus said, it reacts to stimuli, which means you get what you put into it.

 

[Ed Clark]

She returned the snake because it was not showing the temperament she wanted at the time.

I dont think anyone can predict a boas temperment especially an argentine boa that can sometimes be unpredictable and will put on a hissing display that will scare someone that has not seen this before.

but if I screw up I don't hesitate to give the buyer their money back.

Shipping a boa with the end of its tail missing is not a screw up?

 

[Seamus Haley]

Shipping a boa with the end of its tail missing is not a screw up?

It was. He admitted it was. He did not hesitate and offered a refund if the animal was returned. The buyer declined to take him up on it.

They requested a partial refund while they kept the animal. Ken didn't feel that was appropriate, so he told them he was unwilling to do that.

They then poked it with a hanger, decided it was mean and scary and wanted a full refund- which he's still offering for the cost of the animal but he's unwilling to pay shipping charges for a case of buyer's remorse- which seems pretty reasonable since "Eeek, it hissed at me!" is a godawful excuse to return an animal.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Shipping a boa with the end of its tail missing is not a screw up?

Ken Foose, as originally quoted by the OP.

I'll be more then happy to take him back and give you a full credit for him, including the shipping I charged to send him to you.

Ed, are there any snakes in your collection that you can just reach in and pet without them pulling away? This was what the OP considered aggressive behavior (that and a strike that sounds more like a feeding response than anything).

I don't think I'd be willing to put this on Ken at this point. Having a buyer pay return shipping on an injured animal is the only thing I'd have a problem with, and considering the reason the snake was ultimately returned, that's a moot point.

 

[Slim]

Ken agreed to refund shipping because of the tail. The snake was not returned due to the tail issue, but rather the snake's temperment. This amounts to buyer's remorse in my opinion.

Absolutly agree. Temperment is subjective and the fact that the snake shows no aggressiveness in Ken's care leads me to believe the snake was stressed from shipping, which is natural, and was not allowed to settle before it was deemed unmanageable by the buyer. Not Ken's fault.

I am 100% sure that Matthew decided to join Fauna and make his first 2 posts on a "bad guy" thread that Jessica started with no prior knowledge that se had started this thread. Just randomly surfing the web on Jessica's IP addy I'm sure.

The hammer is smoking from hitting the nail squarely on the noggin!

You can't say that she had "buyer's remorse" when, if you look at the time stamp of the two e-mails sent by Ken Foose, they are only a day apart. If it took like a month for her to make the decision then that could come up, but after a day? There might have been adding issues that made the decision easier to make, because, for one, she would be losing 40 or 50 dollars in the process of shipping due to "UNSATIFACTORY CONDITIONS" of the animal.

But she didn't ship it back because of the tail. She shipped it back because she didn't like the snake's temperment. Temperment which in my opinion, she didn't take enough time to fully evaluate. Ship me somewhere overnight, introduce me to a strange environment, and pet me with a coat hanger, and I won't be a real happy camper either.

And to say that you need to make a decision within the secound is absurd. She was losing money in the process and that would make anybody weary of making such a decision.

She made the decision about the tail issue very early in the process, not in the best intrerest of the snake, but because she didn't want to be out a few dollars in shipping.

Mr. Foose, just stop beating around the bush and do the right thing and refund both shipping costs, which any GREAT breeder would do for the their customers. Ask any breeder what they would do if an animal was returned in "UNSATIFACTORY CONDITIONS".

One more time since you seem stuck on the tail issue. The snake was not returned due to an UNSATISFACTORY CONDTION, it was returned because the OP didn't like it's Tude'.

I emailed Ken about the missing tail tip regarding viable solutions. He offered me a refund on the snake, including the shipping cost, but minus the cost of shipping him back. I really didn't want to be out the cost of shipping him back due to the animal not being as it was described, since it was obviously not my fault. I asked if there was any other way to handle the situation, such as a slight discount, but he said no. So, I figured, if he was decent in all other aspects, I could forgive the discrepancy. But he turned out to be aggressive as well, which Ken said he was not. So, with both of these factors, both of which I had not been informed about, even after inquiry, I decided to return him. I even informed Ken the previous Friday that I would be shipping him out on Monday to avoid any weekend troubles if they arose. He said okay and to just ship him back to the address in his signature. He NEVER mentioned that he was not going to refund my money.

You keep saying "both of these factors", when in fact, that's how you put it together in your mind. The tail issue and the temperment issue are two seperate things. Ken offered to rectify the tail issue in accordance with his TOS, which you agreed to when you purchased the snake. He also refunded your purchase price minus shipping in accordance with his TOS when you returned the snake because you didn't like it's Tude'. Buyer Remorse all the way.

So, with all of this in mind, am I not getting stiffed?

Only in your mind, and the mind of the guy you're getting free internet from.

He was not willing to try to work anything else out besides me returning the snake for a $95 loss to me. He did not take a loss at all.

Why should he take a loss when you returned the snake because it wasn't a perfectly behaved teddy bear. These are wild animals, and this was a stressed one. Given time to settle, there is no reason to believe it would not have behaved as described by Ken.

The behavior of a snake is dictated by instinctive responses to stimulus. Change the stimulus and you change the response.

Ken is in no way responsible for an inexperienced buyer providing stimulus that prompt defensive responses. "Pet it with a plastic hanger" tells me everything I really need to know... Jessica, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to reptile behavior. You wanted to return an animal because you were too damn dumb to understand that it's behaviors were directly caused by your behaviors and you wanted... what? Something to love and hold and pet and cuddle?

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[KelliH]

I think Ken should have issued a refund for the entire amount: price for the boa and shipping to Jessica plus what it cost her to ship it back. He sent out a snake with a missing tail tip, and when she inquired about a discount on the animal it would have been best to offer her one. I understand that small flaws can be missed occasionally, especially when one is dealing with large amounts of animals, but when you advertise a snake as flaw free or otherwise do not describe the flaw, you owe your customer either full refund (including shipping both ways), or a discounted price if the customer chooses to accept that. I am only speaking about the tail flaw, not the temperament of the boa.

 

[KelliH]

Oh, and it seems to me that the reason she hesitated to send the boa back immediately is because she was going to have to pay to have it shipped back to Ken, which should never have been an issue IMO. He should have paid for that, it was his mistake remember?

 

[rattyrugrats]

I did not "poke it with a hanger." My boyfriend went to try to pick him up and he started puffing up, hissing like crazy, and then struck at my boyfriend's hand. He withdrew his hand and closed the glass door right before it struck at his face. I then went and looked in on him a while later and he struck at the glass again. So I pulled him out and put him into another enclosure, thinking that maybe he didn't like that one for some reason. He continued to be very aggressive and I didn't feel like being bit, so I rubbed him with a hanger and he calmed down a bit. I tried to reach in and pet him, but he pulled away. He clearly did not want to be touched, let alone handled.
I also am not inexperienced with snakes. I currently own five boas, some of which have had an attitude at one time or another. My first boa is still with me, which I have had for over two years. Yes, still relatively new, but I have had other snakes as well for a while now. Do not make assumptions about something you do not have any information on! Yes, I used a plastic hanger. But is a hook that much different? I don't think so. I could see the problem if I used a metal hanger, but not plastic.
The truth is, I wanted to return him right away but didn't want to be out shipping money for something that wasn't my fault, which I told Ken Foose. But he refused to work out another arrangement. So I hesitated! Who wouldn't? We don't want to lose money on something that is not our faults! If he had mentioned the flaw, I honestly would not have bought the animal! We both could have avoided this whole mess. But he didn't catch the tail tip, which I noticed within 24 hours.

Jessica Miller

 

[Slim]

Shipping a boa with the end of its tail missing is not a screw up?

Asked and answered, Ed. Or did you not burden yourself with reading the whole thread?

 

[Slim]

Oh, and it seems to me that the reason she hesitated to send the boa back immediately is because she was going to have to pay to have it shipped back to Ken, which should never have been an issue IMO. He should have paid for that, it was his mistake remember?

She agreed to the terms of his TOS when she bought the snake, Remember?

 

[KelliH]

She agreed to the terms of his TOS when she bought the snake, Remember?

Can you direct me to his T.O.S. please? I looked all over the website and I'm not seeing it. Thanks.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Yes, Ken could and perhaps should have offered a discount or paid return shipping. However, by not doing so, he did not violate his TOS, and understood that the ultimate deciding factor in returning the snake was attitude.

Side note: As soon as he was questioned about the initial shipping cost not being refunded, Ken should have made an exception and sent it to her. From a business standpoint, sometimes meeting the customer halfway, even when it goes against TOS, can go a long way. Even though Ken doesn't look like a particularly bad guy here, this thread would have most likely been avoided.

 

[KelliH]

Can you direct me to his T.O.S. please? I looked all over the website and I'm not seeing it. Thanks.

Slim? Or anyone?