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Exotic Reptile/Advani,Prem Bad Guy?

H

herpetological

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You decide. I ordered 3 snapping turtles for donation to 3 nature centers for educational purposes. He had a post for these and we came up to an agreement and he included shipping. This was early last week.(I can check the date) Anyway, I didn't hear from him for a couple of days. I called him last Thursday and he said he'd ship Monday. I wasn't happy about the delay but, no big deal.... I finally recieved the specimens on Thursday. I was VERY unhappy with the shipping method, USPS priority. It was 3.85 to ship. Even on his single turtles he advertised shipping was 9.99? I didn't know that it was going priority or I would have questioned that myself! Part my fault. However, the method of shipping was not the worst. I've had shipments get delayed 1-2 days and still had animals arrive healthy if packed right. Key word-Packed right! They came in a regular Priority mail box.(Thin cardboard) No labeling as to contents. No labeling as to handling! I.E. Live Harmless Turtles. Do Not Delay. Keep out of Sun! Something!!??? There was NO packing material, no foam, Nothing. They were in a take out dinner tin. Again no packing material. No damp moss, paper towels, nothing again. The turtles could bounce around in their container and the container could bounce around in the box. To top it off... you guessed it they were dead! Heat, bouncing around, dehydration, 3 days shipping? I could understand if it was the carrier's fault but this was definately the shipper. The carrier handled the shipment as they agreed to and had no idea what was being shipped. I contacted him and sent pics. He asked me how I felt they should have been packed and shipped? He said that he sent out some red ears the same day and they were fine? Then he offered to send me some red ears to replace them.(At a very high price!) or I could wait until next year for more snappers. I explained what I needed these for and that if he did not have any more or anything else that I was interested in I would like a refund on at least 50.00 of it. (Total was 60.00) I don't care about the money. I'm just disgusted that the animals were treated this way. I hope he does not continue to ship in this manner. I talked to him again about 8:30 or so. He said he would call back in 5 minutes. It's now almost 10:40. I wasn't going to post because the money is trivial. But, I thought about the turtles. Maybe he just doesn't know? It still cost their lives.....Again it's not a money issue. I rarely place small orders. I was just doing a favor for the centers I work with. It's the issue of the shipping manner and not exercising due care. I have pics of everything I will post next.
I'm not saying don't do business with him...just pressure him into doing it right...if you buy. Thanks Ray G. HBR
 

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Inside container

This is the outside box. Remember no packing material and the cardboard is thin.
 

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Tin inside box. Turtles were in this.

Again loose in container...no packing material to protect them from the elements or bouncing around. (Remember Ace Ventura Pet Detective?... Pack like he's got your box!) The shipper didn't seem that concerned the 3 times I've talked to him so that is another reason I posted this. Maybe, he just doesn't show his emotions?If it was someone else that packed other than him...??
Just a shame. If he refunds fine. If not as long as he doesn't ship this way again that is what matters. Sorry if I repeat myself.. Thanks Ray G. HBR
 

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Awwwww that is soooo sad...and Horrible!!!!! I would find away to turn him in for animal abuse!!!!! How stupid is it to send something, in a pan like that, which carries heat more than anything!!! Those poor turtles!!!! I'm not joking I would turn him in!!! That had to be a horrible death, and no one should be that stupid to pack that away!!!!!! sorry if saying he is stupid is against any kind of rule on here..Some places are very strict about animal abuse I would look into that,,
Shannon Hall
 
The only problem is that i've found law enforcement takes these issues lightly unless it's a number of animals or it's furry and cuddly. ???? Still a shame. It's just the idea.
 
Well, the last thing the herp community needs is another bad guy turned into HSUS. I mean, it won't bring back those snappers, and it won't get you your money back. However, he'll get a slap on the wrist, and we'll ALL get another black eye from an organization trying to put us out of business! I can't recommend strongly enough NOT to go to HSUS under any circumstances, when it comes situations like this.

Ray,

Tell this guy he owes you the full $60.00, and refuse to accept anything less. What he did was wrong, plain and simple. It may very well be that his "packing" job killed those turtles, but it might also be that he mailed you dead turtles to begin with. Anyone that would ship that way and not be concerned about it afterwards, either knows next to nothing, or knows he did wrong. I would not rule out any possibility.

You probably ought to send this guy a link to this thread, or give me his email and I'll do it. That way, he can see for himself the reaction that his "packing" gets from actual concerned herpers. Maybe then, you'll get the money you're due, and turts will be shipped properly!

:angry:
 
I have e-mailed him regarding this thread. Below is direct from his web-site regarding their shipping. His ads state that all shipping is $9.99 but his shipping page states otherwise. No one in their right mind should ever ship animals (any type) via a 2-3 day service. ALWAYS ship express overnight or same day if possible. I understand the troubles can sometimes happen but those animals would never have had a problem if they had been packed properly and shipped properly. This kind of behavior really ticks me off. I hope he comes on here and lets everyone know why he would purposely kill those turtles. Also on his very first page of his web site he states
Exotic Reptiles provides an excellent selection of reptiles. We offer secure online order processing and nationwide delivery. Your order can be taken over the phone or e mail. We work very closely with UPS, FedEx, Delta, and other delivery services to ensure your order arrives safe and in the most cost effective way.
Click to expand...

Shipping Info





Exotic Reptiles offers nationwide delivery. We work very closely with UPS, FedEx, Delta, and other delivery services to ensure your order arrives safe and in the most cost effective way. We even ship to your specific date and time.


EXPRESS SERVICE 24 HOURS





Express Mail is our fastest service, with next day delivery 12 noon to most destinations. If you live in the Eastern part of the USA regular 2-3 day delivery is recommended. If you live in the Western part of US or where the weather gets hot Express Mail is the only method we will ship our turtles.


EXPRESS MAIL


UP TO 2 LBS $17.85


UP TO 3 LBS $21.05


UP TO 4 LBS $24.20


UP TO 5 LBS $27.30


UP TO 6 LBS $30.40


UP TO 7 LBS $33.45


2-3 DAY SHIPPING


UP TO 4 LBS $10.35


UP TO 5 LBS $12.15
 
Thanks for the support. I could care less about the money. I just want him to re-think his packing/shipping methods. Thanks for the links you posted Rob. I'm just not computer savy enough to paste or link them. Personally I would not ship unless they could at least make an effort to get them there next day. I turned down an order last week for some Jackson's. The customer wanted them shipped priority... base shipping cost. I needed the money but had to turn him down when he refused to pay the additional shipping of 20.00 to go FeEx.? Thanks Ray G. I'm not going to bother pursuing this matter by phone. I've said my peace with him. Didn't think that they may go out dead to begin with. I guess I wouldn't, so it does not occur to me?
 
"I guess I wouldn't, so it does not occur to me?"

Well, I wouldn't either, but I've seen some crazy and sick stuff reported here on the BOI over the years. Believe me; ANYTHING is possible once you're dealing with someone who has that lack of concern for the animals he is shipping!
 
Almost the EXACT same thing happened to me, actually, except it was in February and the turtle arrived, somehow, in perfect health (which is why I never posted it). And it was through a well known seller. So you just can NEVER assume that things are going to be shipped right. So I learned to always make sure that my animals are shipped through a next day carrier. And then I just have to hope that whoever it is knows how to pack.

Erin Benner
 
This guy is Scum!

I was browseing the canada forums at ks, and came across this

http://market.kingsnake.ca/detail.php?cat=4&de=1726

apparently Prem, is also using his same shipping methods to ship to canada(Illegally!) without undergoeing the export process. Although I have not contacted him about this, It seems that someone that ships there animals across the country on 3-4 day service would not be doing it the legal way.

Thank you,

Nick Mole
First Choice Reptiles
www.firstchoicereptiles.com
 
Well it seems he is shipping illegally. I e-mailed him under a yahoo e-mail portraying someone from Vancouver and wanted to know how much and what needed to be done and below is his response. I think it is time that I put in a call to USFW and let them handle it.



Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:07:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "PREM ADVANI" <[email protected]> | This is spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: Message about: SEPTEMBER SALE C.B. ALLIGATOR SNAPPING TURTLES FOR $16.00 EACH
To: [email protected]




HI SHIPPING IS $20.00. I ONLY HAVE COMMON SNAPPING TURTLES LEFT. FOR $20.00 EACH.

[email protected] wrote: Hello,

How much is shipping to Vancouver? What all is needed to ship them to me?

----------------------------------------------
Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
location window) the URL below to view the ad that
this message is in response to.

http://market.kingsnake.ca/detail.php?de=1726&cat=4


----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.

Sent 10:54 PM, Sep 15th, 2003 from I.P. Address 24.165.241.225
 
Anyone heard from him on any of this? I wonder if he's doing this deliberately or he's just another wanna' be dealer who has no clue what he's doing? Obviously ships illegally out of country as well! I bet since he has no clue how to pack specimens , he probably doesn't know what cold packs or heat packs are either.
 
THe more I think about just how stupid someone would have to be to actually ship a live animal in such a manner the more it ticks me off.
I mean it only takes the smallest shred of common sense to understand that the way he shipped those snappers was way beyond moronic.
It's obvious that this guy is some wannabe that has no idea what he's doing, and apparently isn't trying to be in buisness very long. It's also obvious that he doesn't have the slightest hint of care about the animals he's selling.
I'm not one to involve authorities or do anything to bring more bad publicity on our hobby, but in this case I would support notifying the USFW as well as the FDA, since he's also selling turtles that aren't even near the legal size. Seeing an idiot like this busted would be at least a degree of satisfaction.

Someone asked about their email address here it is
 
In this instance, notifying the USFW and FDA is probably the way to go. I still don't think that HSUS should ever be prought into the picture, because that is just an open invitation to PETA, but we have illegal actions being perpetrated here. The authorities need to be made aware of this clown.
 
I sent this person an e-mail from this thread and he has not shown up at all. I forwarded all information regarding him shipping illegally to Canada to a USFW investigator that I deal with on cases such as this. He in turn has contacted the USFW investigator in New York where he is and will pursue it further. I don't take kindly to people trying to import/export illegally when some of us work so hard to ensure that everything is done legally for our shipments. I hope they nail his butt good.
 
Thanks Rob. I've been trying to get back to this but just got back in from Miami. Hope they at least "jerk a knot in his tail!" Thanks Ray HBR
 
Snappers....

well...
Just to shed some light on where these turtles originally came from and some story behind them....
I sold the Alligator snappers to Prem about 3 weeks or a month ago.
I shipped out almost 2000 turtles to 3 different people, Prem Being one of them.
After sending me 10-15 dollars less than the agreed upon amount, I still shipped animals to him.
The next afternoon AFTER turtles arrived, prem called telling me that a bunch of turtles were dying and/or dead, and he wanted to know what was going on. He said 9 were already dead, and others "looked" fine.
I told him to freeze the dead ones for me, I gave him my account number told him to overnight them to me the next day, I would credit/refund him. When I told him this, he asked if a picture would suffice, I told him no, because I wanted to have a necropsy done, and he was the only one that had any die at all, out of 1500 red ear sliders and the snappers I sent out. He told me that was fine.
The next day he called back and said that an additional 10-15 had died and some others looked bad.
I kind of got upset at this point... and asked how they were set up. First he told me he had a heat lamp on them set at mid 80's I believe. After I inquired about the water, he said that they were outside in his yard set up.
I told him I thought they were inside, he said no they were outside, but it never got above 80. I checked the weather channel and the high was around 90, so I asked where they were and he first said where they could get sun, then renigged that statement and told me they were in the shade when I told him he probably fried them.

Needless to say, to make a long story short, when I told him to send them back, and I would give him a refund.

This is where it got fun.

I feel that I acted quite reasonably including me splitting shipping with him, because he wanted them shipped priority mail to him and I wouldn't do it...so I paid for shipping via airborne express.

Ok...so he called, and I must admit I didn't answer the phone because I wanted to collect my thoughts and get a gameplan, he left a message saying that he didn't know how they did it but the 10-15 that died that day miraculously came back to life. and not to worry about the original 9 because he found someone to buy the carcasses.

Needless to say, I think this was just a screwed up situation. Very sorry to see those animals dead.
I highly doubt I will sell to him at all anymore.

Oh, almost forgot, he did ask me about selling and shipping to canada, for which I strongly cautioned him not to do. But, hey....

Hope this sheds some light on the situation...
P.S. there were no DOAs at all from the other 2 people.


Tom
Zoological Supply
 
I think this deal is closed. I've contacted him via his site, e-mails and phone. No reply. I guess I know where he stands. Oh well another one bites the dust? Thanks everyone, Ray G. HBR
 
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