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ExoticsRUs Killed my snake and expect me to pay for it... **PICS** PLEASE READ!BEWARE

W

wrapped

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I recently made a purchase with ExoticsRus for an adult male taiwan beauty. After talking with Ray Hunter I thought I was dealing with a trust and honest guy... HA!
I called him many times talking to him about the snake, and arranging shipping. I purchased the snake over Kingsnake.com and in the ad there was NO mention of shipping or arrival gaurantees. I called him up, asking about shipping and he told me via airborne express. I have an airborne express account so gave him my account number and all was said and done. I sent my money and awaited my snake...

When the airborne truck came to me the delivery man gave me a box that was 9" long, 6" deep, and only 3" high. I looked at my husband and exclaimed " A 6 FOOT TAIWAN BEAUTY SNAKE IS IN THIS?!?!" I opened the box, and what I found was a snake bag laying inside and this....
screwed2.jpg

link = http://www.knology.net/~johansson/screwed2.jpg
No styrofoam... No Newspaper for buffering. Just a dead gorgeouse taiwan cramped in the tiny-est of bags in the smallest box immaginable...
screwed4.jpg

link = http://www.knology.net/~johansson/screwed4.jpg
screwed5.jpg

link = http://www.knology.net/~johansson/screwed5.jpg
screwed6.jpg

link = http://www.knology.net/~johansson/screwed6.jpg

I called him up to report the death and my responce was " we don't gaurantee live arrival if it isn't with delta " and then there was one of my favorites " the box wasn't too small!! that's the size of their hideboxes!! " and then another classic "no cushioning needed because they are housed on newspaper "
It doesn't take a genius to know that you cannot compare hideboxes with SHIPPING boxes and padding needed to withstand the bumps compared to substrate!!! AND THE BOX WAS WAY TO SMALL!!! They said that I should have read the "fine print" on the website... I didn't even purchase the snake through the website and when asked about shipping the ONLY option given was via airborne.

ALL in ALL--I paid for an exceptional snake, and these people took the MINIMAL of care and were completely lazy. No styrofoam for insulation, no newspaper for padding, NOTHING. They treated my snake with no care at all and expect me to suffer the loss.
I told them I would spread the word... they acted like it wouldn't hurt them at all.....

Prove them wrong!
Charlotte and Daniel Johansson
[email protected]
 
Still WAITING

Thanks for letting me know... I posted this before I saw the first thread but am still FUMING MAD!!!
He mentions in his latest responce " Will handle the business with the customer accordingly " but i'm STILL WAITING for a responce! I haven't gotton an email or anything so far...

Only time will tell...
I'd be willing to drop it when my refunded money is in my hands...
 
I know it's hard but be patient. :) It was pretty unanimous in the thread that we all felt you were owed a refund or a replacement. I'm sure he'll do the right thing.
 
That sucks. I have had that happen to me exactly the same way twice as well. I will help your cause and not buy anything from them..
The way I see it is if you cannot guarentee any live shippment in anyway then you have no business shipping.
 
Just realised that they are the same people that that did the same thing to me. I asked how they ship with out even knowing they had a website luckly my snakes made it alive but the box they used was a cricket box with screen on the sides with news paper inside. my temps were 60's and I told them that. They were gravid amazons to boot.
 
White Dove, you already have one warning point for not including your full name on your post. This will be two if you don't add it before webslave sees it.
 
Me again, I am gonna stick my neck out on the chopping block here. Ray is a friend of mine, and I help him a lot at his shop. So I am not really trying to take sides in this, I want him to do what is right. He told me yesterday that he is going to make good on the snake, even though he is NOT SURE that he is a factor in it's death. In all fairness, it is unfair to post that he "KILLED MY SNAKE" because as he puts it, NOBODY KNOWS how the snake died, and exactly why. He said that after seeking you all's advise on this site, he feels that he needs to reconsider their packing methods, and possibly stop using Airborne express to ship. Again in fairness, it is unreasonable to have an unconditional live arrival guarantee when you are shipping something that is not even allowed to be shipped via airborne. IF airborne does kill the animal, should the shipper always just refund the money without having the ability to get it back from the shipping service??? That is why he prefers to ship via delta. I took the liberty to copy and paste a part of one of Ray's posts on kingsnake (he says this is posted to every ad he puts on Kingsnake:

Please CALL 772-215-7625 FOR INFO, ORDERING, and quantity prices. Unless otherwise indicated, the above animals are wild caught imports, that have been de-wormed, and are feeding. They are in “apparent” good health. I strongly recommend that all animals (captive born and wild caught) be quarantined, checked by a vet, and treated accordingly. Venomous reptiles will not be knowingly sold or shipped where they are prohibited unless you fax us your permit. No sales to minors. Proof of age may be required. Orders containing venomous reptiles cannot be shipped door to door. Shipping of all venomous snakes (including rear-fanged snakes) is via Delta Dash ($75.00) or Delta Air Cargo (+/- $68.00 collect) only. There is a $20.00 minimum box charge for all orders containing venomous reptiles. Other animals can be shipped via Airborne Express for around $40.00 (packing charges may be applied). Conditional live arrival guarantee only. Please read my complete terms and information, which can be found on my web site. I will be happy to answer any additional questions you have BY PHONE. We take all major Credit cards, MO, Pay Pal etc.
Sorry, no trades..."


I agree that Ray does not spell out "NO LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEE" but it does say "conditional" and prompt the reader to go to his site to read the "fine print" (incidentally, the first line of his so called fine print covers the fact that he does not guarantee live arrival for any shipment other than airport to airport).

Ray feels 100% certain that this customer is on the up and up, but I know he has had a lot of scammers try to play games, and from looking at most of the posts on this site, so have a lot of you all. I have too. Ray liked that snake, and was hesitant to break up the pair for her, so I doubt that if he made a shipping error it was intentional. He now feels (after talking with a lot of you all) that he needs to upgrade his shipping. AND HE SAYS HE WILL DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THIS CUSTOMER, but it is a weekend, and we have been very busy with post Hamburg work as well as moving to a new warehouse, so give him a break, and lets all see if he will do whatever is right. In all the years I have known him, he always seem to make good on everything he could.

Jim, Ray tells me that you should have no ought with him, because Danny sold you those Amazon tree boas, not Ray. He said that Danny used his Airborne account to ship to you, but Ray did not pack or ship you those snakes, they were Danny's, not Ray's. Lets all be a little fair, and not just head straight for the gallows.

One other point, yesterday I measured one of the airborne boxs Ray uses to ship, and not that it makes much difference, but the EXACT measurements are as follows: 9.5" (l) X 7.5" (w) X 4.76" (h), so both Mrs Johnson and Ray were BOTH wrong in their estimates of the box size (again, noth that 1.75" makes a hugh difference, but it does have a psycological effect to some readers).

Ray said he will not (and does not have time to) get on a computer and argue back and forth. He wanted advice, he got it, and he says he will follow it. So lets all put away the shot guns, and see what happens.


p.s.- obviously Ray does value your opinions, or he would not have asked, so to say that he is uncaring about what people post on the internet about him is very untrue. Again, I am only putting out my neck for him like this because he is a good guy that values his integrity, and he won't do it himself.
Tahnks all
Wayne Shaw
 
Two items:

1) That is a terrible packing job. Maybe it would work in early spring when temps are mild but I am in Detroit Michigan and it is 90 here this week! Why wouldn't you use a styrofoam insulated shipping box? Why wouldn't you use a cold pack. We are talking about things that cost $1-2 here. I'm sure that an importer of that scale must get fish styros all the time. The ONLY reason to ship in a box that small is too be cheap and pay less for shipping. Weight is one factor with overnight shippers but so is dimensional weight. If the box is so large, it is a minimum price. So Ray saved $20 and killed an animal.

2) That really makes me mad that it is clear that he could care a less about there being a dead animal involved. It is just money right? The customer wanted this animal and is upset because it is dead. Admit you were a screw up and apologize.
 
The only way someone would ship that way,is that the animal in question,was dead in the first place..regardless of box size.

I ship black knight cans with 100% more packing material than that poor snake was shipped in..Wrong..Wrong Wrong!!!!!
 
Just asked my 8 year old son...If you had to ship a snake across country..how would you do it (they are not allowed in the snake room when i am packing)
He replied that he would put the snake in a container with holes in it,so he could breath..and then put him in a box with grass in it,so he wouldn't get to banged up!!
I guess this guy in question, must be 7 or younger.
 
I have received snakes that were just in a box with lots of newspaper and they did just fine, sent from Florida to California. It cushioned them an gave them some protection. Newspaper is cheap and easy to get. Newspaper, styrofoam inserts or both; that snake should have had something.

Picture yourself in a bag and in a box moving all around. With just couple jerky movements, you'd be dead from the blows too and it wouldn't have to be all that hard.

I know he's your friend and you feel the need to defend him but what he did was cruel to the snake. I'm happy he's going to change his shipping policies and going to make this up to the girl who made the purchase but this whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter. I think it's time for us all to move on.
 
PLEASE READ!!!!

I have reached an agreement with the customer. It is up to her to post our arrangement if she chooses to do so, but after speaking with her today, I believe she will report to you all that this issue is over. Thank you all for your good advice. We WILL be changing our policy on shipping (to include not using Airborne Express for snakes). Mrs. Johnson spoke to Airborne who told her that there is no guarantee that they can keep a package from sitting out in the sun or overheating (or something to that effect). I have learned a valuable lesson through this, and will act accordingly. This was never about saving shipping costs (as some of you are implying) as the customer pays shipping, not me. I honestly believe a better packing may have mad the difference, but I do not really know for sure. As Wayne stated, it is speculation that the snake died from the packing, not factal. Unlike some, I can not play God and pass judgement. I cared a great deal for that snake, and would never knowingly do anything to harm an animal. In any event, I don't dwell on the past, I learn a lesson and move on. I am making this right with my customer, and if she decides to post that, maybe some of you can rise above this and move on also.

Mrs Johnson and I are putting this behind us and moving on. If some of you are not willing (or able) to do the same, than have a good time. I will have nothing more to add to this issue.

Be Blessed all!
Ray Hunter
 
Well Ray..Hopefully we don't have to deal with it anymore..with any luck,you will go away,with all the other wannabes,that all of a sudden think they know what they are doing!!!!!

If you were shipping a piece of glass..would you ship it the same as you shipped that snake??? I don't think so!! Treat it as so,and stop trying to blame Airborne for your own mistakes....I ship almost exclusivly with airborne,with moderate problems..not life threatening ones.

By the way..you might want to,not be having your customers calling airborne,or anyother carrier..because nobody,except maybe delta (knowingly) ships snakes.

If you are in this for the long hall///get to know your carrier driver..it can make a wourld of differance.

Like i posted before..the only way ,any normal person would ship the way you did..,is that the snake was dead to begin with!!!!

be blessed,back at ya
 
Lisa, thanks for all of your 2 cents. I am still working towards the status of perfection like you. Someday when I too can walk on water (as it seems you can) I too can sit around and post remarks like you do. There were three people present when that snake was shipped, so in your all-knowing wisdom you are not only calling me a liar, but all three of us. The others had no interest in my business, but whatever. Also I am aware that Airborne is not supposed to ship snakes, and we will not be doing it that way in the future.

The problem has been corrected, The customer is satisfied, lessons were learned, TRY to rise above this, if you can, and move on like everyone else has. Just think, someday we all may be as WOW as you!!! until then, see if you can put up with us little wanna-be-you's, and please excuse us for having to start out at the beginning, and learn lessons the hard way.

Blessings
Ray Hunter (the scum of the earth)



p.s. I know I broke my statement that I was through with this by replying to this post. I immagine you will want the last word, so go ahead, and I won't reply (so you can say "got you last!" )

To everyone else, thank you for your great calls and help.
 
I never said i was perfect..far from it.. and if i hurt your feelings,i am sorry.
Maybe i have just been lucky with my shipping,or maybe my animals are just in better condition for shipping..I don't know.

I will say this however...like i said before..pack your animals like you would pack glass. even someone who has never shipped a thing should no this..(its alive!!)

Anyway,sorry to come off so hard on you,but i am really getting tired of hearing of these rediculous shipping problems,when 90% of them are shipper related.....
good luck
 
Fine, don't use Airborne anymore. But are you going to change the way you -package- the snakes? The snake arrived on time, the box looked like it was in good condition...I think if the snake was packaged properly, it would have made it. I think with the snake just thrown in a box like that, delta wouldn't make much difference.
 
I am not one of Ray's friends, I do not know him from a hole in the ground, but I do know that he already stated that he made a mistake, He stated he was going to change his shipping ways. He has learned a lesson and is making good on it.
I do not like the way his friends came on posting, I wish he would have just upfront told her he would make good, but hey, at least he is willing to make the changes, that is all one can ask. No use beating it up. Just my opinion.
 
I have shipped with Airborne for a couple of years and would like to comment on this thread. The ONLY time I had mortality in any of my shipments through them was when I made a bad mistake by trying to utilize their second day service instead of their overnight service. I wanted to see if this would be acceptable and then I could lower my shipping cost substantially because my cost would be lower.

Nope. That didn't work. All three shipments wound up at the destination with dead occupants. That was using 15x11x7 boxes with 3/4 inch styro insulation and 2 heat packs in each box. This took place in the winter months going from north Florida to three northern states. Apparently Airborne Express uses a completely different method of transport for the second day shipments, which I do not recommend for live animal shipments.

However, with all of my shipments using Airborne's overnight service, I have never had a single mortality incident. Proper packaging is what makes the difference. Shipping animals via the fastest service available using insulated boxes with get your animals ANYWHERE safely 99 percent of the time. Even with those instances where Airborne had one of their infamous "sorting" errors and showed up a day or two late, the animals were still in fine condition upon receipt at the destination.

If you ship via Airborne, and the package gets to the destination when it is supposed to, but the animals are dead inside (especially an adult!), there is no one to blame but the packer of the box.

IMHO, of course.
 
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