• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Fauna, the BOI, and Favouritism...

WebSlave said:
So just how long have we been hearing that "clique" tune? (ps, it's NOT CLICK people)
Click to expand...


That's why, I didn't know.
I am part of a "clique" not a "click".

Thank you Rich for clearing that up!

*Public service announcement* In regards to recent talk on the BOI I feel the need to express that the following message will be of my own free will and is not in anyway directed by any "Clique Leader" or because the majority of the posters feel this way*

With that said

NO THANK YOU BRUCE!
 
The only reason why my confidence in the BOI has wavered recently is that there are A LOT of people who don't post their bad experiences on here. Indeed, I've been misled by some good guy threads on here that ended up in less than satisfactory results for me. Now here's the catch: Even I hesitate to post my negative experiences on the BOI and probably for the same reason other people don't. I don't want 50 vigilantes jumping on my back because it looks like I'm the first person to have a bad experience with the breeder/company. Sometimes I'm up for the challenge, but sometimes I know it just won't go anywhere. The 20+ page threads of mocking insults really do diminish the professionalism of the BOI.
 
Xelda said:
The only reason why my confidence in the BOI has wavered recently is that there are A LOT of people who don't post their bad experiences on here. Indeed, I've been misled by some good guy threads on here that ended up in less than satisfactory results for me. Now here's the catch: Even I hesitate to post my negative experiences on the BOI and probably for the same reason other people don't. I don't want 50 vigilantes jumping on my back because it looks like I'm the first person to have a bad experience with the breeder/company. Sometimes I'm up for the challenge, but sometimes I know it just won't go anywhere. The 20+ page threads of mocking insults really do diminish the professionalism of the BOI.
Click to expand...

I empathize, Xelda. Last night, Robin hit my rep points and sent a graphicly nasty note criticizing my threads. It seemed unprofessional; others have disagreed with me (as is their right) in a manner that allowed growth and dialogue, but nastiness and vigilantes, IMHO, do not encourage positive change.

I think a balanced approach to life is best: address both the good and the bad and if one does that, I think that out of the process will come some sort of valid picture of who one is describing, and of life in general. The best posts on the BOI that I have seen have been direct and professional dialogues about problems, as well as objective praises of good guys.
 
Xelda said:
Indeed, I've been misled by some good guy threads on here that ended up in less than satisfactory results for me. .
Click to expand...

I would not call this misled if others posted their experience honestly.
If your experience was different you should post it.

Xelda said:
Even I hesitate to post my negative experiences on the BOI and probably for the same reason other people don't. I don't want 50 vigilantes jumping on my back because it looks like I'm the first person to have a bad experience with the breeder/company.
Click to expand...

It has a lot to do with the history of the accuser as well. I can think of only three threads recently that fits the scenario you describe for being the first "Bad Guy" post. The same person who had a track record of being a difficult person to deal with started two of them. I think if you honestly made your case you would not have that problem.



P.S. Matt hurry up at get my order to me or I might just switch to Jim's side.
Just kidding
 
graphically nasty? i dont remember being "graphically nasty" maybe brutaly honest, however i could have been. i really dont remember as it was late and i was tired... if you want you can post it here to refresh my memory or not... it really does not matter i am sure i got my point across either way
 
Curiouser and curiouser...when's the tea party??? (if you catch my drift)

This really wasn't an attack on Webslave, or what he has busted his hump to make and hold on to...just was asking if you all thought we needed a "reality cheque" (oops, check)

I gather the bulk do not....ok !

greg
 
From a newbies point of view, I see cliques here. They are very obvious when you take the time to look at the BOI as a "whole". But honestly what group doesn't have em.... None. There will always be groups within groups. Thats just the way people are. People gravitate to others of the same thinking by habit. High school, colllege, your jobs, many of your social hobbies ect...... There is no getting around it.

There are of course your "rougues" who come and go as they please with no allegience to any one group or form of thinking. There are several rougues here as well.

Favouritism is apparent too........ But I mean C'mon, favouristism is EVERYWHERE. No escape from it either. Is it fair? Nope, but is it going to stop? Probably not. But hell life ain't fair, get used to it.

Anyone is welcome to hit my rep points with negative feedback. I read this whole post and thought I would just voice my opinion from an outsiders perspective.......... I am in no cliques and only have 1 good friend on here so the chances of my "clique" ganging up on you are slim to NONE!!!
 
FurryLilDevils said:
Favouritism is apparent too........ But I mean C'mon, favouristism is EVERYWHERE. No escape from it either. Is it fair? Nope, but is it going to stop? Probably not. But hell life ain't fair, get used to it.
Click to expand...

You just said a mouthful !
 
Newbie

Maybe its just because i'm New here but i havent seen any cliques other than the site being one :hehe:
This site saved me a couple of grand so far,So im pretty happy with it!

Btw i spelled clique right 1st :bleep:
 
Took two cups of coffee getting to this point. Greg, while I agree that everyone has a "right to an opinion", it doesn't make it "right" in the eyes of others. I am sure that you expected some negative replies .... and you got them! Surely the "cliques" exist, with friends and like-minded individuals joining ranks at times. Comes with the turf. But your original post noted your expectaion that this was supposed to be an "unbiased ....impartial jury .... somewhat educated ". Jeez, I thought the only screening process was to anti up at least $10 !! Like Lucille and others, I am in the group that leans towards wanting to hear specific examples to back up general criticisms, especially when such may be aimed at myself or my organization. Certainly not a requirement, but it does put the meat on the bone. My own disappointment with the BOI of late was the switch to being a paid privilege, which I feel cut down on the number of spontaneous posts. Sure, it cut out a lot of the nonsense, but it also became a hurdle for other legitimate infrequent posters. But I realize that it takes money to maintain this site, and have to accept the fee as a necessary evil. I thank all at Fauna for the service they provide in the continuing battle against the "evil one ....JB".

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company, LLC
 
I have thought a lot about what you have written...

I even read THE WHOLE thread about Ray that you pointed out.

I don't post a lot here, and skip a lot of the threads, because I mostly deal with people I know or meet in person at expos, etc. So I rarely have bad experiences and usually only post positive comments about the relatively few people I deal with. With that in mind, I have to say that when I read a thread about somebody I either know personally, or have read A LOT of threads about (whether positive or negative), then the new post is colored by my past experience about that person (whether direct or vicarious). If I have only good experiences and / or read only good things about them, I would be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. That is not to say I would excuse their behavior indefinitely if it became obvious they would not fix a problem. I have done some stupid things myself (but not very often, I hasten to add!!) that I am happy didn't get broadcast to the world before I had a chance to fix it as best I could. However, even if my best friend did something bad and didn't fix it, I wouldn't approve of it. OTOH, there are some breeders I wouldn't go near with a 10 ft. pole just because I have read SO MANY negative things about them. I do like to judge for myself, but there are some cases that sound so bad that I probably wouldn't take the chance.

Anyway, what all of this meandering around means is that I think it is human nature, and probably prudent, to view a person's actions in light of their past history, until you are SURE of all of the facts in the present case. "Past relevant behavior is the best prediction of future behavior" (Dr. Phil). I have to agree with that, in general. Some leopards MAY change their spots, and we should see if they have in fact changed for better or for worse. But usually people stay on the same positive or negative course they have set in the past.

As far as trends here lately, what I have mainly noticed is a little less fighting, flaming, and trolling, than in the past. Not an absence of it, lol, just less.
 
To me this reputation point system is kinda flawed in one sense, I have witnessed it used as a mode of intimidation. Once I disagreed with one particulairy nasty post made by one of the HIGHEST most influentual ranking members of this forum, after giving them negative reputation points they immediatly came back and retaliated by hitting my points. I guess they felt they are above criticism. Personally I can see where a newbie or really anyone would be intimidated to voice there opinions in the future due to this type of "tit for tat", personally I will think twice about voicing my opinions due to this. Especially if they have higher rep points.
To me it seems that people with established reputations here on the BOI have a clear cut posting advantage over those who are newbies, no established reps or those who just don't post much. Is that really fair???
 
Everything can be abused if you try hard enough to. But that doesn't mean that putting rubber baby buggy bumpers all over the world is the solution either.

Take ANYTHING at all and ask who likes it and who doesn't and normally you will get a 50/50 split. So does that mean you should just do nothing at all rather then piss off that 50 percent that won't like it? If I REMOVED the reputation system right now, this instant, guess what? I would have 50 percent of the people then mad at me because of it.

Generally, from what I have seen, based on the usage, the abuses in the reputation system are very light compared to the number of people actually involved. But nothing is perfect, and I think people need to get this concept into their heads and work on understanding it.
 
Fair? Not at all. But as so many of the poster's here have pointed out to me..."life isn't fair" . (I'm just shaking my head now)

Made it a practice early on to never post negative points...don't really see the sense in it. If I disagree with someone, I just don't add any.

greg
 
Well since it seem it was a thread about me that started this I might as well put my two cents in....As mentioned it's human nature that determines our responses as well as friends or enemy's. Most people are quite happy to let a positive "good guy post" go for 1-2 pages. However, when a negative post occurs it can stretch to infinity. I think even you Greg would agree that the post should never have gone 18 pages before I was able to respond. A more constructive way for both supporters and detractors to handle it would have been..."Let's wait until Ray responds before we jump to conclusions. There's no sense in debating this until we have all the facts". Notice I say that both my SUPPORTERS and my DETRACTORS should have waited until an intelligent response could be made for either side. There are cliques that follow both the negative attitude as well as the positive attitude to certain parties. As Kathy Love mentioned it's likely that you are going to give the benefit of the doubt to a friend or someone you have dealt with. In addition by no means does this mean that a "popular/reputable dealer should not be put under the same magnifying glass as an unknown or unreputable seller. I support your right to question anything you feel is contrary to what you feel is right. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean you should back down. Just use you head and all the facts available before formulating an opinion or making a statement. The BOI is here for that very reason...We can debate what is acceptable or unacceptable behavior for our herpetological community and our industry.
 
Life involves give and take. Rep points are not a big deal; if I mention them it is just information in passing.
Besides, karma lives, when one member on here went on a rep rampage, he was gifted with the most appropriate consequence of receiving a few of those points himself. :hehe:

I actually give negative points rarely and here's a deal: if I have EVER delivered negative points to you, if you will IM me and we reach an understanding, I will cancel them out by delivering good points back to you. Now, how reasonable is that?

And for those interested, no, I did not retaliate for the points I received yesterday. I actually like just about everyone here; I think that (here's a bit of Lucille wisdom) when someone on Fauna says something bad to you, or negative about you, with a dialogue, and a good attitude, you can work out almost any difference.
Sometimes there needs to be an interim cooling off period, but to me, it is difficult to keep any kind of negative feeling inside of me for very long when I read your other posts, the ones about your life, your children, your dog, your reptiles; those posts turn each of you into someone special and worthwhile and I identify with you, and your life. The Fauna family is a good family. :)
 
Xelda said:
The only reason why my confidence in the BOI has wavered recently is that there are A LOT of people who don't post their bad experiences on here. Indeed, I've been misled by some good guy threads on here that ended up in less than satisfactory results for me. Now here's the catch: Even I hesitate to post my negative experiences on the BOI and probably for the same reason other people don't. I don't want 50 vigilantes jumping on my back because it looks like I'm the first person to have a bad experience with the breeder/company. Sometimes I'm up for the challenge, but sometimes I know it just won't go anywhere. The 20+ page threads of mocking insults really do diminish the professionalism of the BOI.
Click to expand...

Here's my take on THIS aspect of the BOI.

If you're honest, regardless of who you are and who you had a bad deal with, there are those here who will help you.

If you're NOT honest, regardless of who you are and who you had a bad deal with, there are those here who will tear you apart.

If you've got a problem, voice it. If you're afraid to then perhaps it isn't such a problem after all. I'm NOT saying it's NOT a problem, just saying that if you want help, you need to ask for it. And, if you're too afraid to speak up, well that says more about you than it does about anyone here. I don't believe I've ever given a ration of feces, so to speak, to anyone that did not ask for it first, whether it was in the past or at their first appearence.

You've got to be willing to stand up for yourself BEFORE anyone will do it for you. It's not always easy but it is always necessary. Some just don't have what it takes to do it here. It's not all popcorn and lollipops.
 
herpetological said:
A more constructive way for both supporters and detractors to handle it would have been..."Let's wait until Ray responds before we jump to conclusions. There's no sense in debating this until we have all the facts". Notice I say that both my SUPPORTERS and my DETRACTORS should have waited until an intelligent response could be made for either side. There are cliques that follow both the negative attitude as well as the positive attitude to certain parties.
Click to expand...

There was some Wise man, or maybe wiseass, who did recommend that very thing. Such grace and wisdom is his, truly on to be admired both by his peers and those who aspire to be such.

Who was that masked man?
 
You've got to be willing to stand up for yourself BEFORE anyone will do it for you. It's not always easy but it is always necessary. Some just don't have what it takes to do it here. It's not all popcorn and lollipops.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Well put, Wes...
 
wilomn said:
You've got to be willing to stand up for yourself BEFORE anyone will do it for you. It's not always easy but it is always necessary. Some just don't have what it takes to do it here. It's not all popcorn and lollipops.
Click to expand...


I have to agree with statement. The BOI is definatly a double edged sword. It can work in your favor or it can tear you apart.

It's all up to the individual. Plain and simple.

And for the people who are afraid to post because they don't quite know how it will be taken. A couple sayings come to mind.

1. You can't help those who don't want to help themselves....... Basically what Wes said.

And

2. If you can't look back on your life and see some scars you wasted it.


If you have been proven on the BOI to be a scammer and/or just practice bad ethics, morals or just bad business. And then you post about how you got scammed.... Expect to be bitten. If not, post away. You might be suprised at what you find.
 
Back
Top