Bad Guy Fire and Ice Dragons

[Bill T]

(They shipped the 4" white female dragon which arrived May 9th ) What was the size the paper has 6.5'' on it .

 

[halloweengeckos]

My wife just gave me this receipt. I have no idea why Terri listed her at 6.5" at time of shipping. 4" (i.e. under 5") may have been an underestimation of size at time of arrival on my part(it was just so small and skinny that I must have underestimated (no way it put on over an inch in two weeks)-- I should have measured it when it arrived), but I just measured her at about 6" and 9.9 grams. I've put a little size on her by feeding her when she does her defensive gape (calciworms).

 

[Fangthane]

Some more unsatisfied customers.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188871&highlight=Terri+Sommella

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52895&highlight=Terri+Sommella

I didn't fully read them, but there's some interesting stuff in there. In the first one, someone comes to defend her, and it turns out that he's her UK rep. Of course, he neglected to mention that he was directly associated with her. As it was his very first post on Fauna, it seems unlikely that he just happened to randomly find his way into that thread, without being pointed in the right direction. I'm just speculating, though.

In the second thread, it appears that she changed her TOS right in the middle of a dispute. She'd decided to change her mind about offering refunds for unsatisfied customers. She revised her terms to stipulate that she'd only offer replacements. It also seems that she's been willing to exaggerate her experience level, and may have made some dishonest claims about the origins of one of her lines. Terri just seems really shady and overly willing to twist things to her benefit.

 

[kankri]

Wow! I'm so glad I didn't buy from her. I was tempted to get one of the babies from her white x white pair, but her prices are crazy. And that little baby you got really definitely isn't $500 quality. And that care sheet, wow... so sorry you have to deal with this.

 

[Wilomn]

If you paid by credit card, start a charge back and just don't deal with her anymore. She's not a nice person and she's a well known liar.

Cut your losses, get your money back if you can, and find someone with a good reputation here to do business with.

Anything else will be a waste of time and energy.

 

[halloweengeckos]

Terri Wrote me this yesterday. Anyone else think this is a bad idea?

Eric,

I beleive there is a solution which is fair to all parties. However, since you have improperly cancelled the contract for your Citrus bearded dragon, I must mitigate my losses. The lizard has hatched and will be of age to ship in about 6 weeks. I will need to resell this dragon during Summer months which are typically slow for pet sales. I am willing to attempt to resell your dragon at full price. It may be that additional advertising is required or we are unable to sell the dragon at full price. I have no way of knowing what this bearded dragon will sell for in the future. Once we resell the lizard, I am willing to credit your visa back for the amount of the sale either less than or equal to the original sale of 515.

Regards,

Terri Sommella
Fire and Ice Dragons
717-359-8669
www.fireandicedragons.com

 

[Fangthane]

Terri Wrote me this yesterday. Anyone else think this is a bad idea?

Eric,

I am willing to credit your visa back for the amount of the sale either less than or equal to the original sale of 515.

Why not completely remove her from the equation? Have you initiated a chargeback through Visa? If not, I think you should consider it. It seems kinda funny that a breeder of such high quality "holdbacks" suddenly has doubts about her ability to resell one of her prized dragons at full price. With her suggested refund methods, it's looking like she's a graduate of the Evan Stahl Customer Service Academy.

Maybe I'm just overly skeptical, but I just get a bad vibe from her, and can't avoid noting the possibility that she's setting the stage to intentionally give you a refund that could be considerably less than what you paid. Nothing to stop her from having a shill send her a PayPal payment for X amount, which would make it appear like a legitimate sale, as there would be a paper trail for her to "prove" it was sold for that amount. After which, she quietly returns the money, which leaves her with her dragon back as well as some percentage of what you paid for it. l. Personally, I'd want to try to go over her head and take the decision out of her hands.

 

[Wilomn]

If you paid by credit card, start a charge back and just don't deal with her anymore. She's not a nice person and she's a well known liar.

Cut your losses, get your money back if you can, and find someone with a good reputation here to do business with.

Anything else will be a waste of time and energy.

Why not completely remove her from the equation? Have you initiated a chargeback through Visa? If not, I think you should consider it. It seems kinda funny that a breeder of such high quality "holdbacks" suddenly has doubts about her ability to resell one of her prized dragons at full price. With her suggested refund methods, it's looking like she's a graduate of the Evan Stahl Customer Service Academy.

Maybe I'm just overly skeptical, but I just get a bad vibe from her, and can't avoid noting the possibility that she's setting the stage to intentionally give you a refund that could be considerably less than what you paid. Nothing to stop her from having a shill send her a PayPal payment for X amount, which would make it appear like a legitimate sale, as there would be a paper trail for her to "prove" it was sold for that amount. After which, she quietly returns the money, which leaves her with her dragon back as well as some percentage of what you paid for it. l. Personally, I'd want to try to go over her head and take the decision out of her hands.

Don't trust teri any further than you could throw her.

Initiate charge back now or cry alone later.

 

[Lucille]

Eric,

I agree on starting a chargeback immediately. I would send the CC company a copy of this thread and the tracking info showing that they sent the baby to the incorrect address.
I do think her proposed solution is a poor idea. For one thing, she could have an acquaintance purchase the animal for much less that what you paid and you would end up with very little. Or she could claim that it died.

 

[ophidile]

Eric,

I agree on starting a chargeback immediately. I would send the CC company a copy of this thread and the tracking info showing that they sent the baby to the incorrect address.
I do think her proposed solution is a poor idea. For one thing, she could have an acquaintance purchase the animal for much less that what you paid and you would end up with very little. Or she could claim that it died.

I would hope she wouldn't claim a $500 hatchling died under her own care and the buyer was liable for that! Kinda voids her health guarantee, saying buyers can expect to pay for dead or about-to-die animals!
But I agree she could easily claim to sell it for much less (even though it isn't even ready to ship for 6 weeks!) Chargeback now.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Terri Wrote me this yesterday. Anyone else think this is a bad idea?

Eric,

I beleive there is a solution which is fair to all parties. However, since you have improperly cancelled the contract for your Citrus bearded dragon, I must mitigate my losses. The lizard has hatched and will be of age to ship in about 6 weeks. I will need to resell this dragon during Summer months which are typically slow for pet sales. I am willing to attempt to resell your dragon at full price. It may be that additional advertising is required or we are unable to sell the dragon at full price. I have no way of knowing what this bearded dragon will sell for in the future. Once we resell the lizard, I am willing to credit your visa back for the amount of the sale either less than or equal to the original sale of 515.

Regards,

Terri Sommella
Fire and Ice Dragons
717-359-8669
www.fireandicedragons.com

Translation of the bolded section

"I have already spent your money and do not have it to refund"

Chargeback on the unsent dragon without a doubt and a lesson learned to check here before dropping a grand with a breeder.

Hopefully the one you already received will get turned around and thrive.

 

[bloodybaroness]

I'm echoing what everyone else is saying, start that chargeback now. You will never see a dime of that money if you wait. I guarantee she will keep stinging you along.

Just inform your CC company of the misrepresented first animal, plus the shipping issues. You should be able to get a chargeback.

 

[knoxpython]

Baby bearded dragons are not harder to care for than an infant. When I read "don't look them in the eye" and "stand back three feet to mist them" I shot my drink out of my nose.

 

[jellyfishrhythm]

I'm very sorry this has happened to you. I've only heard of misleadings and poor communication efforts with this particular individual, but I will again echo everyone else on this forum and implore you to put a stop payment on that transaction immediately. John hit the nail on the head - she cannot and will not refund you because she has already spent your money (a lawsuit wouldn't be out of the question here) - she is trying to further mislead you and give you the runaround with this "well, when I sell it, then I can refund you some portion thereof, but maybe not" - the buck stops here.

The fact that she is still continuing to try to sell dragons before they hatch is absolutely absurd considering the public response and disappointment with the process. Unfortunately, she will keep doing it as long as people continue to buy from her. Assure your wife that she's done nothing wrong, and just learn from this mistake. But please, please, please, do not allow her to eat sit on that money. Fire and Ice has earned the name "Hot and Cold" with many other members of the reptile/breeder community - particularly because of their wishy-washy waffling stance on their own guarantee. Pfft.

Fingers crossed for the little dragon. Try some tiny hornworms, I've never seen a baby dragon, even a difficult feeder, refuse those - and they're super nutritious and will hopefully fatten the little one up right away. They're soft and full of water and pose very little risk of causing impaction - that is the last thing the munchkin needs.

Ugh, this makes me so mad.

 

[Invictus57]

Just ridiculous

Daryl you made me laugh. I only choked on my tea, I'm thankful it didn't come out of my nose! I agree it's ridiculous. Not make eye contact? Feeding is supposed to be a bonding experience isn't it? Yes they're stressed from the change and all and I agree everyone needs time to adjust, but wow. I've never seen such specific instructions and be bs all at the same time.

Don't mean to jump on the bandwagon, but I agree. Your money is gone, contact the credit company. I think that might be your only hope.

How is the beardie doing btw? I don't remember reading updates.

 

[Pasodama]

Terri Wrote me this yesterday. Anyone else think this is a bad idea?

Eric,

I beleive there is a solution which is fair to all parties. However, since you have improperly cancelled the contract for your Citrus bearded dragon, I must mitigate my losses. The lizard has hatched and will be of age to ship in about 6 weeks. I will need to resell this dragon during Summer months which are typically slow for pet sales. I am willing to attempt to resell your dragon at full price. It may be that additional advertising is required or we are unable to sell the dragon at full price. I have no way of knowing what this bearded dragon will sell for in the future. Once we resell the lizard, I am willing to credit your visa back for the amount of the sale either less than or equal to the original sale of 515.

Regards,

Terri Sommella
Fire and Ice Dragons
717-359-8669
www.fireandicedragons.com

~Absolutely~ unacceptable.
You should receive a full refund of what you paid. Not a partial with nothing to show for it.
Either do a charge back, or file a lawsuit, if you do not receive a full refund.

 

[halloweengeckos]

I started the chargeback on the 15th. Terri was on the phone with VISA and I-- she sounded like she was going to try to dispute it. We'll see what that gets her. She would be smart to just refund my money before VISA goes after her. She's making a lot more trouble for herself. I've already told her I'm trying to keep the dragon she's sent-- that she's lucky I'm not asking a refund for both. Some people have no conscience. As for the dragon I have, I took her to the vet yesterday. It's a day to day thing. She'll still only eat when I put food in her mouth during a defensive gape. She would eat cacliworms a week or two ago, but now she'll go after nothing... and Terri tells me that she must mitigate her losses... (because we all know it's easier to sell an EGG than a live hatchling). Just for the record, isn't spring and summer better for reptile sales than ANY other time of the year? My wife is new to the shadiness of the reptile industry, but she's been burned now, and she'll not soon forget it. She just really wanted a yellow and a white dragon.

 

[regardingmarley]

I'm still having a hard time understanding the price of $500 for that beardie... In Feb. I bought a breedable-sized male Hypo pastel leatherback from Mr. K, aka Kyle Thayne/Excalibur Dragons, and paid $150 SHIPPED (From CA to PA, so definitely not the shortest trip). I feel like you're not only being dealt with poorly in the aftermath of the initial purchase, but that you were more than taken advantage of right from the start with that price at the very least.

 

[jmp745]

There are a few breeders who decided their normals are worth $300+, and people buy them. I guess if people are buying them, then it is what it is, but I'll never be a customer. I think the only baby beardies worth that are hypo trans dunners, or witblits/het witblits. Or some world class, off the charts, color. I can say with 100% honesty, that if I hatched that dragon, it'd likely end up going to the pet store for $20. I've sold plenty that looked far better to the pet store.
With that said, did this baby eat really good the first day or two, then stop? Because if that happened, it's likely an issue of changing its food to fast. It grew up on crickets, so if it got to gorge itself on roaches it never ate before, this was bound to happen. Gotta go slow with new food. If you get crickets from lllreptile you can get some wax worms in the order without paying extra shipping. They are fatty, but when a beardie isn't eating good I think fatty is ok short term. Just go slow with them at first(1 or 2 the first day, 2 or 3 the 2nd day, ect).
As far as her wanting to sell that 2nd beardie before paying you... yea right. People are funny to me. Throw away their reputations over petty crap. If you paid, and didn't get the 2nd beardie, theres nothing to talk about with that. Get your money from this nut sooner than later.

 

[halloweengeckos]

jmp... no, I've not introduced it to any new food item. I've been caring for it as per Terri's weird instructions as per her guarantee. I'm plenty experienced with dragons-- but Terri says that doesn't matter, if I don't follow her instructions, I have no guarantee. I've been offering it crickets, calci-worms, and dubias. It stopped eating the crickets, so I switched to calciworms-- which it readily ate for a few days then stopped. I can't think of circumstances where this is normal.