Florida Fish and Wildlife now Monitoring the BOI?

[snakegetters]

I agree, NOBODY of athority is getting into my house without a warrant. That is the way it was ment to be constitutionally.

You have every right to hold that position, but consider this.

I want every officer I can possibly lure within range to come into my house and see my snakes. Heck, I even issue open invitations in coffee shops if I see a cop that isn't busy. I want to educate them so that the next time they encounter a snake in the course of doing their job, they feel more comfortable with the snake and they know how to do something other than shoot it. I consider any interaction with Fish and Wildlife officers, police, sheriffs, etc, to be a positive opportunity to accomplish something I think is very important.

I can understand why even a totally innocent person who would not break any laws might feel unfairly invaded or violated at an unscheduled inspection, especially if the officer was rude or treated you like a criminal. Also there are officers who will hassle you about things that are just plain wrong, because they don't actually know what they are talking about. I'm not suggesting that everybody should constantly invite officers into their home, or that citizens should not have the absolute right to be free of unwarranted search and seizure. However you can choose to a great extent how you want to relate to them.

I choose to think of them as basically decent and nice people whom I can help and educate. I don't think of them coming to my house as an invasion. They are visiting me to learn something, whether they know it or not. If I do my job right, they will go away feeling at least a bit more comfortable with snakes and more likely to save them than shoot them. That's worth an hour of my time and some lemonade and cookies any day.

 

[JJFOUTZ]

There is a bit of a difference between them being invited into your home so you can help them feel more comfortable around snakes in general or educating them on what type of snake they are dealing with in the field and them knocking on your door UNINVITED and EXPECTING to come into your house to inspect you for any reason without a warrant.

 

[brucestephenson]

WARNING! WARNING! Do not invite officers into your home! You are asking for severe trouble and you will get it. I know of incidents such as this where the poor people were forced to get rid of their collections or leave town!

 

[herpetological]

It seems to me that if you have nothing to hide, what's the problem. I understand the idealism behind rights violations however, if there is no illegal activity herp realted or otherwise why ask them to get a warrant? I've had officials over on many occasions and they are aware that I have an open door policy. If they need to inspect or investigate a matter they will often even call me first. However, I have had problems over the years with "rookie" or "overzealous" officials. The interesting thing was that I knew their supervisors. Upon hearing about the incidents the officers in question were chewed out by the time they left. Not by me but, by their supervisors. I don't agree with the borderline methods of entrapment during stings but, for the most part they are simply doing their jobs. We've all heard the horror stories however, being open, honest and respectful goes a long way. By no means however does this mean I will let any official trample upon my rights. If you have nothing to hide then by all means why not make it easier on both yourself and the officer. Many times they come in with an attitude because of what they have told about a certain person or illegal activity. In my experience, as soon as they find out that it was bogus information they change their attitude. However, this may be just my experience. In addition I can see them monitoring the Classifieds and Sales long before they would monitor the BOI. They are not concerned with people who conduct "bad deals" , only illegal sales or possesion of protected species. JMHO

 

[brucestephenson]

By the way, the officers who I am advising people not to invite in are the non-wildlife kinds. They wrote up the poor people for having snakes and the city(s) and the press went after them.

 

[snakegetters]

There is a bit of a difference between them being invited into your home so you can help them feel more comfortable around snakes in general or educating them on what type of snake they are dealing with in the field and them knocking on your door UNINVITED and EXPECTING to come into your house to inspect you for any reason without a warrant.

A lot of people ask to come in and see the snakes. It doesn't matter overly much to me whether they are officers or not, except if they are officers, I have a better chance at doing more overall good by educating them.

The police *cannot* write me up or ticket me for having venomous snakes - especially given the fact that I have worked with their own training department to give snake safety courses for officers on their premises using live venomous snakes. LOL The police call me to the scene when there's a venomous snake situation reported, though usually it turns out to be a 3' rat snake rather than a 6' rattlesnake.

It would be remarkably silly of them to stop me from doing what I am fully licensed to do. It would only make more work for them of a sort that they don't really want to deal with, and they'd lose a good resource for free snake safety training.

 

[brucestephenson]

Just hope that some politician, or some flunky, or a newspaper where you live doesn't decide that you are an "undesirable" at some point.

 

[snakegetters]

It could happen, but I think the police and Fish and Wildlife are smart enough to figure out that I am a good community resource rather than an undesirable. Undoubtedly if I did something stupid that made the papers, the situation would change - but I don't intend to do anything stupid, and I do intend to continue working in a positive way with the police.

If you think about it, the more people there are like me who are willing to be friendly and helpful ambassadors to the police and to other officers, the less scared and uncomfortable the authorities will end up being when they come knocking on your door.

 

[JJFOUTZ]

Let me say, It is nice that you have such a good attitude and are so helpful in your community BUT that does not mean that I should open my house up to strangers at any time they choose to disrupt my household and my life. There is such a thing as privacy…

 

[brucestephenson]

We all think that you are a very nice person Tanith.

 

[snakegetters]

Let me say, It is nice that you have such a good attitude and are so helpful in your community BUT that does not mean that I should open my house up to strangers at any time they choose to disrupt my household and my life. There is such a thing as privacy…

Well, one of the ways I make sure that they don't feel the need to visit me unannounced is by making sure that they do visit me regularly at times that are announced. I don't have anything illegal to hide, but I would really hate to be caught in the shower or on a bad hair day. LOL

Actually one F&W officer doing surprise inspections did catch me when I had been miserably, disgustingly, falling-down-puking, flat on my ass sick with the flu for nearly a week. I felt like roadkill and the house looked awful. Fortunately he agreed to come back another time. I'm not sure he'd have done that if he'd been suspicious that I was trying to keep him away from anything other than a bad flu bug.

I understand that what I do doesn't work for everybody, and I don't expect everybody to be on an eager mission to convince all public safety officers that snakes are our friends. But it is what I like to do, and it has had only positive results for me so far.

 

[JJFOUTZ]

Fortunately he agreed to come back another time. I'm not sure he'd have done that if he'd been suspicious that I was trying to keep him away from anything other than a bad flu bug.

I just don't understand how people view those that value thier privacy as acting suspicious and have something to hide. The fact that I do not welcome strangers into my home at any time they choose to disrupt my life to inspect me does not mean threr is something to hide. I have tried to be polite while making this point but you keep comming back to me acting suspicously. Why is that? Why do you feel that some government agency should have the right to come into my or anyone elses home unanounced at any time they choose without a warrant. You act like if I value my privacy then I must be hiding something.

 

[JJFOUTZ]

Amendment IV

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment IV speaks only of probable cause supported by oath or affirmation, not suspicious behavior. If you don't agree with that then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[amabilis]

Other states and lack of information

I have found most of these posts pretty interesting and some are scary as he&@. Here in NM the laws are pretty one sided to encompass the roundup and vague on top of that. It even goes as far as to exempt the round up from some of the wildlife laws. I keep my nose clean and still I would hate for them to enter my house. When I herp (with my permits) I often carry a copy of the F&G laws right with the permits. Officers are not omnicient and laws are at best complex critters. Just because a uniform is present does not mean that it is an imformed uniform. We should know these laws at least as well as they do, not to argue or cause problems, but, to protect ourselves.
Just like us there are also good and bad in the F&G ranks. Officers with something to prove or with a general bad attitude. Not only that, but, it's an "easy" bust. No sitting in the cold watching a fake animal until some poacher shoots it. Not much worry about a dangerous interaction (hunters carry guns, herpers carry hooks). Easy target. My question is "Does the round up get this kind of attention?" or "Did Joe Hunter shoot my horse/cow/human companion and what is F&G doing about it?". Even a better question is "Is this protecting my rights and are MY tax dollars being spent on frivolous activities?".
Don't get me wrong. I think you in FLA are lucky to have legislation surrounding this issue. Here it seems (as well as in other states) things are kept in a minor state of confusion so as to protect the "officials". In FLA the laws are pretty clear cut and easily accessable, AZ too, yet some states the pertinant laws are deeply buried and VERY vague. Open to debate, and in a debate with the state who is going to win? I'm not saying to give F&G any grief either, they have a job to do. And if you are informed and legal you will not only have little to worry about, but, can speed them on their way to a more worthwhile project.
My point is protect yourself. Know the laws, know your F&G, know your animals and lastly... KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.


David Furphy
AKN Venom & Exotics
Alamogordo NM

 

[snakegetters]

I have tried to be polite while making this point but you keep comming back to me acting suspicously. Why is that? Why do you feel that some government agency should have the right to come into my or anyone elses home unanounced at any time they choose without a warrant. You act like if I value my privacy then I must be hiding something.

Where did you think that I was talking about you? I'm not. I've made a point of saying that I understood your point of view and that not everybody in the world will want or need to adopt my methods. I explicitly stated that citizens have the right to be free from unreasonable government intrusions. Try actually reading my posts and you'll see what I mean.

What I am saying is that I suspect I am personally unlikely to get very many unscheduled inspections because of all the scheduled visits. So that's more convenient all around.

Do I think they have the right to come into YOUR home? No, I don't. Do I want them to come into MY home? Yes, because the more officers I educate about snakes, the fewer snakes they'll end up killing out of fear or ignorance.

Your house is your house; you have the right to say who is and is not invited. I have the same right in my house, and I am exercising it. I honestly do not mind officers coming into my home; they are only doing their job, and I think of it as a nice occasion for a friendly visit and some positive education. So as far as I'm concerned, they have an open invitation. But that's just me.

I do not expect everyone to have that attitude, and I share your concerns about citizens being free from unreasonable search and seizure. I don't think that Fish and Wildlife inspections of specially licensed facilities are unreasonable however; they are largely aimed at protecting animal welfare and making sure that the housing is both humane and secure. Now if only more of their officers were better educated as to what actually constitutes humane and secure housing for reptiles.

 

[JJFOUTZ]

Where did you think that I was talking about you?

Out of the 5 posts that you have added from page 8 till now, you have started 4 of them with a quote from one of my posts. Why do I think you are talking about me? Think about it.

I am not going to continue discussing my point with you because it is pointless.

 

[snakegetters]

Taking a point from another well written post for further discussion does not mean that you are implying anything at all about the author of that post. It's philosophical, not personal.

 

[bud mierkey]

Its great they monitor

some day they might get some of the deadbeats and scammers.
the Boi exposes on their own without having to be called on them.
for example they see ten vicitms scammed by the same guy on the boi.
Then they set him up with a sting operation and get him.
wouldn't that be cool.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

I would be very carefull allowing anyone into my home to see my animals. I say this from a paranoia not mentioned prior on this thread. Theft.

Now I understand F&W or other officals will steal your animals however if you allow strangers into your home to "educate" them on herps, you only asking for trouble IMO.

Not only is theft a issue, but one could argue by allowing strangers in your home you increase your risk of an encounter with the authorities to begin with.

For example a few years back I had a litter of beardeds I wanted to sell locally, so I posted a add in the thrifty nickel. Only one person responded to the add, and later stopped by. I unwittingly allowed them into the house to see all the dragons (had about 50 plus babies on hand at the time, and a few boas 20 or soo). They did not purchase anything, but claimed they would be back in a few days to buy.

The next day I had the local humaine society at my house. They claimed someone called reporting I had "Large Snakes" in the house. At the time anything over 8 ft was against ordinace. This includes animals that have the potential to reach 8ft. As I said I DID have snakes, but only columbian redtail morphs. Another mistake I made was to allow them in without a warrant.

Now luckily I was perfectly legal, and nothing came of the encounter. However no more then 2 months later the city changed the ordinace to make any snake 6ft or larger illegal (including a couple native snakes for size....LOL). This put me in a very bad spot. Now I became worried about the visit paid a few months back and the follow up that was sure to come. If my snakes were found, they would have been KILLED. PERIOD. No ifs ands or buts, they were at that point ILLEGAL and would be disposed of. I had well over 10 grand invested in them, not to mention THEY ARE LIVING CREATURES. So I was forced to sell off my entire boa project as quickly and quietly as possible to protect them IF I were raided. All because of a stupid decision to allow a stranger in my home.

Funny thing is, it took nearly 2 years, but now boas are LEGAL again. They bumped the limit back up to 8ft, and I have my collection going strong again, but never again will ANYONE see my collection that I dont know and invite to do soo.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

 

[dvf1973]

these stories kill me

it just reiterates my hatred for mankind, I think we need to seriously look at the way we do justice in this country, it should all be based on payback!!