Bad Guy FloridaHerps.com - BUYERS BEWARE!!!

[ShadowAceD]

I couldnt agree more! I am not defending anyone for stealing pictures.

This thread was started by some girl with two last names making serious claims against a company without proof. Last time I checked that is not acceptable on the BOI.

Just for the record; The copyright law you refer too also protects emails. Its the exact same law. So I agree that someone claimed a website stole their picture. No excuse for that. That same person that was upset about copyright infringment went right out and violated that exact same law by reposting private emails. I believe that is called Hypocracy at its finest. In fact, there are plenty of folks on the BOI that seriously rip into people over pictures (and I for one agree with all that) but the BOI (which I think rocks) actually requires people to post their real name and then break copyright law by reposting personal emails complete with headers. I think copyright laws are way too ignored on the internet and there really is no excuse. I also know that you do not need to tag your photos, they are automatically protected under law. Just like emails.

I will say its good on Michelle's part to get this thread completely diverted from her claims. Good job.

So Michelle where is all your proof or should we chalk this thread up as complete slanderous lies just like the ones you had removed on RTB.net?

Have you informed FH that you started this crap over here?

Jenny

Actually, e-mails are only copyrighted in a "literary" sense. That means you are unable to repost them without giving credit to the original writer (i.e. the person who sent the e-mail, and since their name would be in the header, that is the credit), to black mail or for monetary gain. That is the only copyright protection that belongs to e-mails unless it is explicitly stated that the e-mails must remain confidential. This, of course, changes when it comes to government e-mails or anything regarded as "legally sensitive". So, no, reposting them for the simple fact of reporting is not illegal nor against the copyright laws that pertain to e-mails.

Using copyrighted images, however, for the sole purpose to obtain monetary compensation (i.e. this joker posting pics of animals he does not have as a primary representation to obtain sales) is illegal and against copyright laws, especially when you do not have expressed written permission to use said photographs for monetary gain.

When it comes to copyrights and the legalities behind said copyrights, it all comes down to commercial value either gained or lost.

 

[hhmoore]

Just for the record; The copyright law you refer too also protects emails. Its the exact same law. So I agree that someone claimed a website stole their picture. No excuse for that. That same person that was upset about copyright infringment went right out and violated that exact same law by reposting private emails. I believe that is called Hypocracy at its finest. In fact, there are plenty of folks on the BOI that seriously rip into people over pictures (and I for one agree with all that) but the BOI (which I think rocks) actually requires people to post their real name and then break copyright law by reposting personal emails complete with headers. I think copyright laws are way too ignored on the internet and there really is no excuse. I also know that you do not need to tag your photos, they are automatically protected under law. Just like emails.

There IS something called fair use, you know...and, in case you aren't familiar with it

§ 107. LIMITATIONS ON EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS: FAIR USE

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

In case you don't understand the difference - stealing somebody's images to use on your website is commercial in nature, and intended to reap financial gain.
I don't know what emails you are specifically referring to, but posting emails to refute the content would seem to fall under "criticism" or "comment"...and if it is just to show the content and language, then it is "analysis" or "reporting". If it is the content becoming public that is of concern, I don't believe there is any expectation of privacy when you you send an email (unless there is some nondisclosure agreement...but if there is no proprietary information in the email, is there a concern?).
Yes, it is copyright protected...but my understanding (which may not be correct) is that if there is no commercial use or financial gain on the part of the person that reproduced it, and the relative value of the email (or it's content) was not reduced as a result, where is the damage?

 

[Ed Clark]

Yes my bf deticked the ball python (gross) but it never did eat, and ended up passing away. We are chalking this up to live and learn...learn never to order from FloridaHerps.com that is. This has been our experience, and your's may be different, but we needed to make it known.

You have made serious accusations here.

How about posting a pic or 2 of the BP you bought that you say died?

 

[Morelia4life]

Yes my bf deticked the ball python (gross) but it never did eat, and ended up passing away. We are chalking this up to live and learn...learn never to order from FloridaHerps.com that is. This has been our experience, and your's may be different, but we needed to make it known.


So let me see if I got this time frame right. You posted this on 10-10-11. You said that your bp didn't eat and it resulted in the death of the animal. Correct?

So how long has time passed since you bought the bp? Snakes just don't die over night or a week, or a month just because they don't eat. I had a Macklot's python go for over 4 months without eating and he was fine.

Was it a hatchling or what ?

Like everyone else is saying, right now it is just he said, she said.
I am just trying to understand the situation.

 

[JennyBell]

There IS something called fair use, you know...and, in case you aren't familiar with it

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

In case you don't understand the difference - stealing somebody's images to use on your website is commercial in nature, and intended to reap financial gain.
I don't know what emails you are specifically referring to, but posting emails to refute the content would seem to fall under "criticism" or "comment"...and if it is just to show the content and language, then it is "analysis" or "reporting". If it is the content becoming public that is of concern, I don't believe there is any expectation of privacy when you you send an email (unless there is some nondisclosure agreement...but if there is no proprietary information in the email, is there a concern?).
Yes, it is copyright protected...but my understanding (which may not be correct) is that if there is no commercial use or financial gain on the part of the person that reproduced it, and the relative value of the email (or it's content) was not reduced as a result, where is the damage?

You are preaching to the Chior! I completely agree with you on everything. I am not a lawyer and could careless about the law. I will simply never break it so its a non issue to me. I was more trying to figure out why this thread that was started by someone making some pretty outrageous claims against I company I've frequented over the years was cleverly diverted from the issue at hand.

I'm still waiting for proof, we all know there isnt any. No company like Florida Herps would ship a cheap $10 snake to a customer and not be more then happy to replace it just to avoid a problem. For a company that has been around for so long only to have 2 people ever post something other then great things about says all I really need to know.

I went ahead and let FH know about this thread. I know Michelle whats her name will never be able to post evidence of something that never happened.

She posted this same msg on several boards, all have since removed the thread.

Jenny

 

[Lucille]

it arrived

Arrived into NYC?

 

[firechik568]

Hi Michelle

This is the first time I have ever posted anything on any thread. After reading this thread, I felt that I had too. I made the same mistake as you and your boyfriend and ordered from "Florida Herps." I purchased a red nigerian uromastyx from them on Sept. 28, 2011. I recieved the uromastyx the next day. The poor thing was dehydrated and totally emaciated! I tried calling Florida Herps right away and got the answering machine. Sometimes they answer, sometimes they don't. When I got in touch with them, they told me that I could send it back. My husband and I talked about it.We did not think the poor little guy would make it. I went to the grocery store and pet store two different times trying to find something that he would eat or help him. I tried all different kinds of greens and two different basking bulbs. I read everything I could find on the internet. I came to the conclusion that he was far too sick and needed medical attention.

In the meantime, I got a nasty email from Florida Herps (in all CAPS), yelling at me for not sending it back right away. They were blaming me for the bad health of the uromastyx! They said I was denying it the medical attention it needed. I felt like crying. My husband read the email and said, "This is bull____, we will send him back!"

Anyway, we sent it back Fedex overnight. They told me to send him by US mail. If they really cared, they would not have told me to do that. There is no guarantee that he would have made it overnight with US mail.

I spent $114.90 on the uro and shipping. Then another $50.00,to ship it back. I have lost it all. Florida Herps will only give me a credit in the amount of what I paid for the uromastyx. The LAST thing I want to do right now is use the credit and buy something else from this company!

Anybody reading this please do not buy anything from these people. I believe that "Jenny" is from Florida Herps. I can tell by the posts. These people are very rude. I filed a claim with paypal. I don't know if I'll recover any money lost. I'm posting this so that noone will have to go through what I have.

 

[firechik568]

Proof

Here is a picture of the uromastyx that I ordered from "Florida Herps."

 

[ShadowAceD]

Hi Michelle

This is the first time I have ever posted anything on any thread. After reading this thread, I felt that I had too. I made the same mistake as you and your boyfriend and ordered from "Florida Herps." I purchased a red nigerian uromastyx from them on Sept. 28, 2011. I recieved the uromastyx the next day. The poor thing was dehydrated and totally emaciated! I tried calling Florida Herps right away and got the answering machine. Sometimes they answer, sometimes they don't. When I got in touch with them, they told me that I could send it back. My husband and I talked about it.We did not think the poor little guy would make it. I went to the grocery store and pet store two different times trying to find something that he would eat or help him. I tried all different kinds of greens and two different basking bulbs. I read everything I could find on the internet. I came to the conclusion that he was far too sick and needed medical attention.

In the meantime, I got a nasty email from Florida Herps (in all CAPS), yelling at me for not sending it back right away. They were blaming me for the bad health of the uromastyx! They said I was denying it the medical attention it needed. I felt like crying. My husband read the email and said, "This is bull____, we will send him back!"

Anyway, we sent it back Fedex overnight. They told me to send him by US mail. If they really cared, they would not have told me to do that. There is no guarantee that he would have made it overnight with US mail.

I spent $114.90 on the uro and shipping. Then another $50.00,to ship it back. I have lost it all. Florida Herps will only give me a credit in the amount of what I paid for the uromastyx. The LAST thing I want to do right now is use the credit and buy something else from this company!

Anybody reading this please do not buy anything from these people. I believe that "Jenny" is from Florida Herps. I can tell by the posts. These people are very rude. I filed a claim with paypal. I don't know if I'll recover any money lost. I'm posting this so that noone will have to go through what I have.

Well, you have a pic, that's a start. Do you have the e-mails between you guys?

 

[firechik568]

This is an email from today

RE: Order#8066
1 recipientsCC: recipientsYou More
BCC: recipientsYou Show Details FROM:Florida Herps TO:'Kellie Taylor' Message flagged Tuesday, October 11, 2011 12:25 PMMessage body Hi Kellie,

Yes you have been very nice and I think we've been the same. We are sorry
you didn't like your reptile you bought from us. We offered to replace it
for free, you said no. You wanted to return it and were approved for an
RMA. You returned the Uro and we tested him. He is NOT sick or ill in
anyway. He was simply dehydrated and doing great. Just like I told you on
the phone. He needed to be soaked daily for a few days. Not really a big
deal. Another 2 weeks and we'll put him up for sale again.

We have been in business since 1996 and our terms have always held up. You
will be our first PayPal Dispute ever and we will simply let the FACTS speak
for themselves. The FACT is we have terms you agreed to when you placed
your order. Now you want to simply ignore those terms to better fit your
personal beliefs. That is not the way it works in the real world and PayPal
will never rule against us as we did nothing wrong or against our terms.
Also shipping charges are not refundable. So your credit was only the price
of the Uro. I explained all this to you during a very long phone call and
you made your choice to not get a replacement for free. You made the choice
to return it at your cost. You made the choice to spend $50 instead of $25
to have it shipped. At this point I am done, there is nothing more to say
to you other than I am profoundly sorry. I can tell you that if your Uro
would have tested positive for ANYTHING and just sat here and withered away
we would have worked something out. But you are not a vet. unlike my boss
Dr. Bill. He tested that little guy himself for everything, all tests were
negative. He is eating, drinking, running around, and being a happy healthy
Uro. Honestly I think you jumped the gun on this and should have given him
more time to get acclimated to your home, but that's cool it really doesn't
matter. He's gained 21g since being returned. Just think logically
Kellie, if the Uro was sick and not eating when we shipped him how is it he
was able to poop several times? He only stopped eating (according to you)
after you got him. As soon as we get him back he eats just fine. That
should tell you there is/was something going on in his habitat. Or you were
not following my instructions on soaking him for 30mins a day for a week.
That is all we did to get him up and active. You post your pictures, we'll
post videos of him acting like a happy little lizard. Sorry, it's the truth
and we'll be happy to prove it.

I wish you all the best with your PayPal Claim you never know, they might
help you out.

Have a nice day and please do not contact us anymore. Its nothing personal
I think you are a very nice person, but we are just too busy to stop
everything and explain the same things to you over and over. When you
started your dispute with PayPal that means direct communication is out of
the question. Also your store credit has been put on hold until PayPal
rules in our favor. After you lose we'll put back the money in case you
wish to buy reptile supplies with it or whatever.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: Kellie Taylor [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Order#8066

Nick-
Why does it say that my order has been refunded on my account page? I have
not received a refund on my paypal account. I contacted paypal and filed a
dispute. I will be sending them a copy of my account information from your
website. This has been a terrible ordeal for me. I have been very nice
through this whole thing. It cost me $50 to ship the uro back. I could have
went a cheaper route (US mail, like you suggested) but it would not have
been good for the animal. I'm not asking for the $50 that I lost. I'm only
asking for a refund of $114.90. Of course I don't want a credit for another
one!
Kellie Taylor

Sent from my iPhone=

Reply to:
Reply to Florida Herps
Reply to Florida Herps Send

 

[JennyBell]

One more time, where are all these emails in all CAPS? I just read your note from Nick that sure seemed fine to me. So now we have two claims without proof and what emails are posted are nothing like FireChick descibes?

I just read florida herps' terms and it states that all imported reptiles will be refunded as a store credit. I see it also states that return shipping is non refundable.

What did floridaherps do wrong here? They accepted your RMA and gave you a credit like their terms say. Sounds to me like just another made up story to me. Even if the uro you got was sick they honored their terms of sale.

Have you told Nick you posted over here?

Jenny

 

[firechik568]

Why do I need to tell Nick? You are Nick! You already know!

 

[firechik568]

The picture of your business,on your website, is probably stolen too! You probably run it out of your house. Nick (err I mean Jenny), you say that you have been in business for 15 years. It sure is funny how reputable breeders have never heard of you! Unfortunately, I just found that out today.

 

[JudyC]

Kellie Taylor...instead of arguing with Jenny....why don't you post the "all caps" e-mail that seems to be central to the entire complaint?

I'm in no way backing up or defending Florida Herps....but I also can't get past the fact that two different people show up out of the blue to make claims against this company with very specific allegations that are VERY easy to prove...but fail to offer up that proof.

 

[firechik568]

That's not the central complaint. The central complaint is that this company is shipping unhealthy animals to people. I just sent a warning to people. Take it or leave it.

 

[JennyBell]

In Nick's email he says you chose not to get a free replacement. Why?

Let me see if I get this one.

You order a imported uro from floridaherps. You claim its sick. You refuse a free replacement and chose to return the uro at your cost for a store credit just like their terms state. Nick states your credit "was" already given. So why not use it? Did they lie to you? Did they mislead you in any way? Did they refused to honor their terms of sale? I sure dont see that.

So again, what did this company do wrong? And for the umphteen time where are all these so-called CAPS emails? I have never seen one but sure do hear alot about them.

Jenny aka Nick aka ??? Who will be the third person to show up out of the blue making silly accusations without a shred of proof? Something isnt adding up here.

 

[JudyC]

That's not the central complaint. The central complaint is that this company is shipping unhealthy animals to people. I just sent a warning to people. Take it or leave it.

It did, indeed, seem quite central to your story...how upsetting it was...how completely unprofessional. If you can post up the other e-mail, then why not the BAD one???

Instead, we get the old "Take it or leave it" line..... You do your own credibility a great disservice with that attitude, and actually make Florida Herps look like a victim in this rather than the bad guy you so badly want them to be.

 

[Lucille]

Arrived into NYC?

Still waiting for an answer to this, wondering why the OP ordered a snake that was not legal for her to possess in NYC.

 

[JennyBell]

That's not the central complaint. The central complaint is that this company is shipping unhealthy animals to people. I just sent a warning to people. Take it or leave it.

You forgot to mention that according to the emails -you posted- this company offered you a free replacement and you didnt want one. Gee whiz that sure makes sense.

This is the BOI, here people need to provide proof of a claim. We are still waiting on the first bogus person to post evidence. How do we know the picture you uploaded was really the one they sent? Dont get my wrong, I read the emails I agree that you thought you had a sick uro. I just dont see what this company did after a problem was reported to them that was professional? Nick didnt try to blame you or call you a liar, going by the email you posted he seemed very nice and tried to help you but you refused.

Am I the only one that smells something fishy here?

Jen

 

[JennyBell]

Still waiting for an answer to this, wondering why the OP ordered a snake that was not legal for her to possess in NYC.

This was all asked on other forums too and she had her posts removed. All Michelle needs to do is provide a tracking number and those elusive CAPS emails to get us to believe her. How hard is that?

Firechick might be a real customer, at least it appears so. But her story doesnt add up either. It seems to be floridaherps was nice and tried to help her out but she refused.

The more this thread goes the more I smell a rat.

Jen