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Just curious.............
Was the box marked "Live Animal" ?

If so, I will never use UPS, if they are willing to leave an animal on a door step. It should require a signature minimum, if not personal pick up. IMO.

If it was not marked as such, how can you blame them for leaving a "normal package" on a doorstep? That would show some irresponsibility on the senders part.

Personally, I think USPS' post office to post office, requiring a pick up is a better alternative after reading this.

Although i think I will stick to Delta Dash if possible.

Just my $0.02

Ciao,
Rick
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
Personally, I think USPS' post office to post office, requiring a pick up is a better alternative after reading this.
Click to expand...
Rick,

If you ship a snake via USPS you are committing a felony. I would suggest that if you were to do something as stupid as that and get caught then you will be doing a terrible disservice to the rest of us.
 
Just curious.............
Was the box marked "Live Animal" ?

If so, I will never use UPS, if they are willing to leave an animal on a door step. It should require a signature minimum, if not personal pick up. IMO.

If it was not marked as such, how can you blame them for leaving a "normal package" on a doorstep? That would show some irresponsibility on the senders part.

Personally, I think USPS' post office to post office, requiring a pick up is a better alternative after reading this.

Although i think I will stick to Delta Dash if possible.

Just my $0.02

Ciao,
Rick
Click to expand...

Rick,

It's illegal (federal offense) to ship snakes via USPS. Secondly UPS will not knowingly ship live snakes (company policy). Requiring signature is not a bad idea, but if the person is not there the package will go back into the UPS "cooker" for another "hot tour around the city". If you know where their depot is and it is within your posibility to drive there the "hold for pick-up option", is probably the best. You have to ask the sender to write in the package "hold for pick-up". Not every UPS hubs will allow that, the one in my area does.

Regards.
 
Also isn't it a requirement to state the scientific and common name somehwere? Lacey Act or something ... Though I have yet to receive anything like that. Just some very. very expensive 'cookies'...
 
KelliH said:
Looks like the package was left on a brown UPS truck all morning and most of the afternoon (probably) 95-100 degree+ temps. No wonder the animal died. AZ is a steamer this time of year as Sasheena said.
Click to expand...
All of the UPS and Fed Ex trucks I have seen here are NOT air conditioned. Cars alone here can heat up to 150f or higher inside in just a matter of minutes after being parked. Imagine the back of one of those trucks.

KelliH said:
I was thinking Mesa was a fairly large city. Perhaps I have that impression just because I have heard the name many times.
Click to expand...
KelliH said:
Jeff, you said UPS told you that they would not guarantee 10:30AM delivery. Did they just give you a guarantee that it would arrive by end of business day?
Click to expand...
You are correct, Mesa is a large city. Last cencus was roughly 500,000 people and the 40th largest city in the Country. Mesa has no "boonies" and I have never had a problem receiving anything by 10:30am. The local hub is in Tempe, right on Mesa'a border. All air packages come into Sky Harbor Airport and that is right on Tempe's border, maybe a 10 minute drive from the hub. I find the claim that UPS would not guarantee morning delivery to a Mesa address very odd.

If Jeff would post the address he shipped to I can tell you exactly where in the City it is and the likely hood of deliveries being delayed. But right now, my opinion, formed from living and working here for the last 10 years, is that it is highly unlikely any deliveries would be delayed anywhere in Mesa.
 
I just looked at the tracking details and it said it was delivered to Queen Creek which is a completely different town than Mesa. This is why posting correct details is so important. Don't say it was delivered to Mesa when it was delivered to Queen Creek. Queen Creek is approximately 15 miles to the south of Mesa. That area is growing at an incredible rate but it still could be considered the "boonies." I can see packages not being guaranteed to the area yet.
 
I agree with Dennis, Mesa is NOT "the boonies" .... Buckeye, where I live, IS but won't be for very much longer. (The city is moving in and kicking out the fields and farmers)

Of course the person could "say" Mesa and mean someplace quite a bit out there, but then it won't have a Mesa address, I wouldn't think. But Mesa is on the other side of Phoenix from where I live, so my knowledge of it is limited.
 
DThomas said:
I just looked at the tracking details and it said it was delivered to Queen Creek which is a completely different town than Mesa. This is why posting correct details is so important. Don't say it was delivered to Mesa when it was delivered to Queen Creek. Queen Creek is approximately 15 miles to the south of Mesa. That area is growing at an incredible rate but it still could be considered the "boonies." I can see packages not being guaranteed to the area yet.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing this out, and YES, proper details are essential to understanding the whole story.
 
The BoidSmith said:
Rick,

It's illegal (federal offense) to ship snakes via USPS. Secondly UPS will not knowingly ship live snakes (company policy). Requiring signature is not a bad idea, but if the person is not there the package will go back into the UPS "cooker" for another "hot tour around the city". If you know where their depot is and it is within your posibility to drive there the "hold for pick-up option", is probably the best. You have to ask the sender to write in the package "hold for pick-up". Not every UPS hubs will allow that, the one in my area does.

Regards.
Click to expand...

You are correct, it is illegal to ship "snakes" via USPS, but they will ship other reptiles, animals and if the box is marked "reptile" you aren't lying until you tell them "it's just a Chameleon". :bolt01:
Illegal or not, people do it, and USPS will not deliver it to a mailbox, it is a mandatory pick up, and still sounds safer than UPS IMO.

I see it like this. It cannot be profitable having to replace DOA snakes, so why not spend the extra, and go with shippers that do that stuff? Like Delta airlines. They do their best to meet the needs of the animals, no matter what kind they are. And the animals are not tossed around, or kept in hot trucks, because they go from airport A to airport B, and the recieving party must go pick it up.

Personally, I'd rather drive a 100 miles to an airport, and recieve my new herp in good order, than to even think about taking a chance elsewhere.
But that's just me, and my opine.

Ciao,
Rick
 
Jim O said:
Rick,

If you ship a snake via USPS you are committing a felony. I would suggest that if you were to do something as stupid as that and get caught then you will be doing a terrible disservice to the rest of us.
Click to expand...

People still do it.
If you reread what i wrote, I said I prefer Delta. Though I do not ship many animals, snakes, or lizards. But in all cases, I have used Delta.

Ciao,
Rick
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
You are correct, it is illegal to ship "snakes" via USPS, but they will ship other reptiles, animals and if the box is marked "reptile" you aren't lying until you tell them "it's just a Chameleon".
Click to expand...
Rick,

You are digging a deeper and deeper hole. It is irrelevant what you "tell" them or what you write on the box. If you ship a snake via USPS it is a felony and USPS will prosecute you if they catch you.

Also, generally, USPS will not guarantee that an Express Mail package will get many places overnight, so often it is two days in transit -- not good for the animal. UPS and FedEx do guarantee overnight delivery and having the package held at the local hub is safer than letting it on a truck.

I do agree that Delta is the best way to go. For an extra few dollars the animal is shipped in under 24 hours and the facilities are generally open on weekends so people who work can arrange to have packages shipped in the evening before their day off and pick up on the next day. Also, the animals are ALWAYS kept in a climate controlled area except during loading and unloading of the aircraft.
 
You are correct, it is illegal to ship "snakes" via USPS, but they will ship other reptiles, animals and if the box is marked "reptile" you aren't lying until you tell them "it's just a Chameleon".
Illegal or not, people do it, and USPS will not deliver it to a mailbox, it is a mandatory pick up, and still sounds safer than UPS IMO.
Click to expand...

Rick,

If you label it "reptile" and you send a snake via USPS you are breaking a federal law. It's not a matter "of whether they find out or not". Of course "some" still do it, but some also sell illegal stuff, but that doesn't validate it. Get my point?
 
Dennis,
I do not know who said it went to Mesa, I never did. I am glad the shipping details helped you out.
 
I was under the impression it went to Mesa. When you track the package and click on the "Details" page it says that it was delivered at 3:45PM to Mesa, AZ on Aug 17 under "Package Progress". I didn't notice the Queen Creek, AZ at the top. Sorry about that!
 
Jim O, and The BoidSmith,
Look, I respect both of you trying to uphold the US law, BUT,
You 2 need to re-read what I have written!
I have in no way " recomended" that they do this. I said it "sounds safer" than using UPS. IMO As in safer for the animal, not the person.
I never said "I do it" , I said, "people do it".

I understand very well the chances you are taking. And I also understand it is a federal offense. So is throwing away mail that came, but does not belong to you, and they'll prosecute that also. But people do it anyway.

If it's ethics about lying, whoever sends via UPS is lying also. They do not ship snakes either. And being a "legitimate carrier of us parcel post" do you think the penalty would be any less if you got caught doing it UPS? Maybe, maybe not, I don't know, and this is not a worry that I personally have to worry about, for like stated, I use Delta Air. :)
This is not the first tragedy I have heard of from UPS deliveries, but it is the first one that I personally have read, where the poor animal got COOKED in the hot Phoenix sun. Or should I say Mesa, or Queens Creek to "get the facts right"?
You call it digging a deeper hole? How so? Maybe if I "recommended" it.

Anyway, I did not intend to start any arguements, or debates. My point is this, with all the mishaps I have heard of using UPS, IMO it is irresponsible to use them for this purpose, and if you choose to do so, you are taking this very same chance.
 
By the way, there are other options also. My friend just sent a burm through DHL, but he had to sign something saying it was not venomous.
So maybe other carriers would work with us also. ??? :)

Ciao,
Rick
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
Jim O, and The BoidSmith,
Look, I respect both of you trying to uphold the US law, BUT,
You 2 need to re-read what I have written!
I have in no way " recomended" that they do this. I said it "sounds safer" than using UPS. IMO As in safer for the animal, not the person.
I never said "I do it" , I said, "people do it".

I understand very well the chances you are taking. And I also understand it is a federal offense. So is throwing away mail that came, but does not belong to you, and they'll prosecute that also. But people do it anyway.

If it's ethics about lying, whoever sends via UPS is lying also. They do not ship snakes either. And being a "legitimate carrier of us parcel post" do you think the penalty would be any less if you got caught doing it UPS? Maybe, maybe not, I don't know, and this is not a worry that I personally have to worry about, for like stated, I use Delta Air. :)
This is not the first tragedy I have heard of from UPS deliveries, but it is the first one that I personally have read, where the poor animal got COOKED in the hot Phoenix sun. Or should I say Mesa, or Queens Creek to "get the facts right"?
You call it digging a deeper hole? How so? Maybe if I "recommended" it.

Anyway, I did not intend to start any arguements, or debates. My point is this, with all the mishaps I have heard of using UPS, IMO it is irresponsible to use them for this purpose, and if you choose to do so, you are taking this very same chance.
Click to expand...
Even suggesting it as in
crotalusadamanteus said:
Personally, I think USPS' post office to post office, requiring a pick up is a better alternative after reading this.
Click to expand...
was stupid and irresponsible. You said it "is...a better alternative". It is not an alternative or an option. Suggesting that anyone would or could or should or might do it does a disservice to this hobby. As for shipping snakes via UPS, that in itself does not constitute a felony even if UPS is also a carrier for the USPS. Your law degree is evidently a bit out of date. It may violate the Lacey Act (which labelling a USPS parcel as "reptiles" and not putting the species and common name might also, but that is a separate issue) but that is different from shipping an unapproved item via USPS which is a separate federal offense.

Now stop defending your words. You were wrong to even suggest that anyone would ship a snake via USPS ("a better alternative" -- your words, "not an alternative" -- my words). And yes, each time you defend your inane words you dig the hole deeper.
 
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