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You 2 need to re-read what I have written!
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OK, let’s re-reading it together:

Personally, I think USPS' post office to post office, requiring a pick up is a better alternative after reading this.

You “personally” think shipping a snake USPS is a better alternative. Am I reading this right now?

Rick this has nothing to do with you but with your suggestion. You made a recommendation and were told that it was illegal, period. You don’t need to read nothing more into it. No one is laughing at you because you are different, we were just pointing out that we shouldn’t recommend illegal approaches, the kids are watching…;)

By the way, welcome to the BOI. I just happen to notice that you started posting recently.

Regards.
 
David,

UPS does it for me but granted we live in a small town with just one hub. When I’m expecting a package I usually drive over there at 7:30 in the morning on my way to work. They start their delivery route at 8:00. Every now and then they forget about it and they have to check inside the truck that’s already being loaded. That’s not a problem because they have all the packages sorted by address inside the truck. It only takes them a couple of minutes to find it and handled-it to me.

Regards.
 
DAND said:
I believe you can have packages held at the local hub for pick-up. I'm not sure if all the carriers offer this but I have picked up stuff before with one of the three major carriers, which I can't remember off hand. It was also a few bucks cheaper than home delivery.
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We've had packages held for pickup when sending through FedEx and not only does the early availability give us extra peace-of-mind, but our clients love being able to get their animals before or on their way to work. I do believe it is cheaper as well... of the last two packages we sent out (both of which weighed approx. 1lb. including the stryo-lined box, insulation, deli-cup and baby snake) the one delivered directly to the buyer (at his residence) was almost 47.00 whereas the package held for pickup was 39.00. I'm sure the price is determined by several other factors but in general the trend does point to the "hold for pickup" packages having lower shipping costs.
 
One of the problems of the customer picking the package up is that you have to have absolute trust in them. There is no way they are going to open the package at the hub to verify the status of the animal. After they leave the hub with the package anything can happen. The box can be dropped, left inside the car on the heat of the day, etc. But on the other hand there's no chance to claim anything with UPS either (unless the box is crushed and you claim the standard $100 insurance). That’s the only worst case scenario that I can think of.
 
Look,
This really aint worth arguing over.
You can take it however you want. In this case, I was not intending for it to be suggestive, or recomending it in any way. I appologize to all who took my statement as a suggestion. It was wrong of me, and I should get 20 lashings. :dgrin:
I'll say it again so it is not mis understood........It was not meant as a suggestion. I clearly recommended, and said that I use Delta Air. Now that was a suggestion.

Heres another, Don't preach laws and ethics to me if you are breaking the rules also by sending them UPS yourself. It really makes you look hipocritical in my eyes, and seems as if you just want to argue.

But like I said earlier, You guys win. :)
This is a totally useless subject to argue over, and not on the original subject, which I believe was placing blame on UPS for a DOA snake in a box that they didn't know contained a snake.

Ciao,
Rick
 
"But like I said earlier, You guys win.
This is a totally useless subject to argue over, and not on the original subject, which I believe was placing blame on UPS for a DOA snake in a box that they didn't know contained a snake."

Actually, nobody is blaming UPS here. It clearly was not their fault...
 
I never said UPS was at fault, nor did my customer. I have taken complete responsibility for the DOA and will take great care to NEVER let this happen again.
 
inspectorcarr said:
I never said UPS was at fault, nor did my customer. I have taken complete responsibility for the DOA and will take great care to NEVER let this happen again.
Click to expand...

Now I clearly owe you an appology. I re-read and i was wrong. It got a lil off subject, and lost track.

No excuse. I appologize.

Ciao,
Rick
 
romad119 said:
Also isn't it a requirement to state the scientific and common name somehwere? Lacey Act or something ... Though I have yet to receive anything like that. Just some very. very expensive 'cookies'...
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That's why I use FedEx for all my live snake snake shipments.

I put this on the box everytime:

LIVE HARMLESS REPTILE****************PERISHABLE*********************

Please keep between 60 and 75 degrees.
Ex: Python regius ball python 1.0 (if it's a male or 0.1 if a female)
PLEASE RUSH!!!
 
Heres another, Don't preach laws and ethics to me if you are breaking the rules also by sending them UPS yourself. It really makes you look hipocritical in my eyes, and seems as if you just want to argue.
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Rick,

You make a valid point. You are new to this site and it's understandable that you are unaware of the position of different people on different topics. Almost a year ago there was a poll with a high level of participation of members in it. The majority in the poll voted that they shipped or received through unapproved carriers (UPS, USPS, AE). Truth of the matter is that airlines were the minority, and more than likely restricted to when the price of the animal requires insurance. My position on that matter has been very clear. Of the hundreds of packages that I have received in the course of the years only two came adequately labeled, and both through Delta. Bear in mind that the great majority came not from small time breeders but from recognized professionals in our field. If they were restricted to only ship through Delta most of them would probably not be in business today.

Again, welcome to the BOI, you seemed to have skipped that part of my post.

Regards.
 
Thanks for the Welcome. :)
I hope to learn many things here. Apparantly usage of proper english words will be one of them. LOL :)

On a side note, The more people who try to ship reptiles in marked packages, with carriers who will alow this, the more the demand it would seem. Could possibly open up other carriers to start doing the same if their competition is doing it.
Maybe I'm wrong though. Just my $0.025

Ciao,
Rick
 
The BoidSmith said:
Rick,

You make a valid point. You are new to this site and it's understandable that you are unaware of the position of different people on different topics. Almost a year ago there was a poll with a high level of participation of members in it. The majority in the poll voted that they shipped or received through unapproved carriers (UPS, USPS, AE). Truth of the matter is that airlines were the minority, and more than likely restricted to when the price of the animal requires insurance. My position on that matter has been very clear. Of the hundreds of packages that I have received in the course of the years only two came adequately labeled, and both through Delta. Bear in mind that the great majority came not from small time breeders but from recognized professionals in our field. If they were restricted to only ship through Delta most of them would probably not be in business today.
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Dan,

With all due respect I disagree. In Canada I believe all snakes are shipped air freight and that's just what people are accustomed to doing. They get over it. If that was the case here, people would also get over it. If the average shipping charge is $40, then Delta, at a bit under $75 is not much more. It may hinder the sale of one or two $20 snakes, but for a sale of over $100 anyone who won't spend another $35 to ensure the health and safety of the animal probably does not care about the animal. That's a small amount of money compared to the cost of a cage and equipment, substrate, heating and feeding for 20+ years, veterinary care, etc.

If suddenly door to door carriers became impossible to use in this country the "trade" would continue. The low end, "starter" snake business would shift to shows and pet shops where most of it is probably already done. And the rest of us would get used to going to the airport. The air freight facilities are open early and late, and on weekends, so people can often make the trip without missing work.
 
Jim,

You may be right. What I was basing my comment on was personal experience as well as that poll that to me was quite revealing. You also hit the nail in the head with the $20 snake. At this point in time I can hardly believe that someone that does this as a business will even think about shipping a reptile whose retail price is less than $100 and spend $75 in shipping. It’s not that they don’t care about the safety of the snake it’s simply that they won’t find a buyer for that snake for $175 shipped. We know buyers want quality but they also ship for prices. Remember that the shipping price is just the “tip of the iceberg”, behind it you have your time (most don’t usually put a dollar value on that), shipping supplies, handling, etc. There’s no doubt in my mind that the moment we loose the “carriers” a lost of small businesses will disappear. Will the industry survive? Of course it will, prices will readjust and a new equilibrium will be reached. On things for sure though, you won’t get a baby ball python shipped for $75 though anymore.

Regards,
 
Jim, it's easy for those interested in high dollar value snakes to say that those not willing to pay the $75 to ship Delta should just not do business, but that's not very insightful and not very helpful. That basically means that anyone who wants a low-value animal (which is ALL I produce, btw) should just go to a petstore... it should only take three or four times before they can get one that will actually live. Remember... the future of this hobby is to encourage the interest of young people, and if it costs $75 to ship that $20 corn, suddenly all the money that would go into the cage and a year of upkeep has gone into simple shipping. I might as well close down right away and get a fake goldfish.

With so many animals that are so beautiful and yet also expensive it's sometimes difficult to forget that there are those who breed simple inexpensive snakes .... starter snakes if you will... beautiful animals that a young person can afford as their first reptile. OF the 36 baby snakes I have produced this year, probably only three or four are higher than $50 dollar animals. Most are $25 dollar animals. Some I plan to give away. I raise them for the fun of that "first snake" experience as most of my customers are students with parental permission.

OF course it's fairly simple for me, I don't care to ship snakes in any case and the last two years I've only shipped one animal. Not due to price, but due to the concern I have over the animal arriving safely. This fall I plan on shipping another snake and I'm already highly concerned over the process, as I want my snake to arrive happy and healthy at the destination, none the worse for the journey.
 
And the rest of us would get used to going to the airport. The air freight facilities are open early and late, and on weekends, so people can often make the trip without missing work.
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But you need to remember the poor souls like me who live a good two and a half to 3 hours away from the nearest major airport, and get stuck working most weekends.
 
Sasheena said:
Jim, it's easy for those interested in high dollar value snakes to say that those not willing to pay the $75 to ship Delta should just not do business, but that's not very insightful and not very helpful. That basically means that anyone who wants a low-value animal (which is ALL I produce, btw) should just go to a petstore... it should only take three or four times before they can get one that will actually live. Remember... the future of this hobby is to encourage the interest of young people, and if it costs $75 to ship that $20 corn, suddenly all the money that would go into the cage and a year of upkeep has gone into simple shipping. I might as well close down right away and get a fake goldfish.

With so many animals that are so beautiful and yet also expensive it's sometimes difficult to forget that there are those who breed simple inexpensive snakes .... starter snakes if you will... beautiful animals that a young person can afford as their first reptile. OF the 36 baby snakes I have produced this year, probably only three or four are higher than $50 dollar animals. Most are $25 dollar animals. Some I plan to give away. I raise them for the fun of that "first snake" experience as most of my customers are students with parental permission.

OF course it's fairly simple for me, I don't care to ship snakes in any case and the last two years I've only shipped one animal. Not due to price, but due to the concern I have over the animal arriving safely. This fall I plan on shipping another snake and I'm already highly concerned over the process, as I want my snake to arrive happy and healthy at the destination, none the worse for the journey.
Click to expand...
Actually it is not in the least lacking in insight, as I have thought about this a great deal. The person who won't spend an extra few dollars to ensure the welfare of their animal is the one lacking in insight. Here's why:

Let's suppose the animal is destined to remain in the buyer's possession for five years (the numbers favor my argument if you assume longer, but five years make them quite obvious). Let's look at the cost of ownership and amortize one time costs (including shipping) over the five years.

  • Cost of animal: $25 = $5/year
  • Cost of shipping: $75 = $15/year
  • Cost of cage, hide, water bowl, heating unit: $100 = $20/year
  • Cost of substrate: $10/year
  • Electricity to heat cage: $1/month = $12/year
  • Cost of feeders: $1.50/week = $78/year
  • Gas to go get feeders (or shipping cost if mail ordered) $1 every 2 weeks = $26/year
  • Vet bills -- assume one visit in the entire five years at $150 with medicine = $30/year
  • Cleaning products $5/year
Have I missed any costs? Maybe. But a rough estimate of cost of ownership of this animal, with the one time costs amortized over five years is $201 per year. The $35 extra for shipping amounted to $7 of that annual cost or 3.5%. You can argue that it's $35 out of pocket up front, but so are the costs of the cage and furnishings, the animal itself, and the $40 in "low cost" shipping.

My point is not what you *should* do. My point is that if someone wants a healthy snake and you point out the real costs of ownership, $7 per year amounts to less than 14 cents a week for five years. Anyone who is not willing to pay that *probably* is not going to buy the snake anyway, much less care for it properly.

So...if door to door shipping were not available, people would adapt. That was my point. It still is.
 
USPS sucks, anyone the mentions USPS and shipping live goods........well. The only thing live I'd ever ship USPS is feeders, at least if the lot of them is lost nothing major is lost.

I sent a box out to a place in rural NY, they guaranteed it for 430pm and it was delivered at 430 on the dot. Luckily it was up here in the north, it wasn't more than 90 that day and I had used a styro and cool pack. The dragon arrived healthy and happy. Wish I had of saved some cash and sent him Standard instead.
 
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