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Fred Kick Misrepresented Animals, A thief to watch out for

What is so difficult about posting the pics? I think it has been asked several times to:
Post the pics of both animals as you received them and the Ad (this goes for both of you).

You could also put the animals on a scale and snap a pic of the numbers (including the snake) and let us make our own judgements.
 
HRoss said:
cat 72 the difference between us is night and day. i would bend over backwards to make you happy. i have been selling high end reptiles for 8 years now, keeping them longer.
there is a thread on me if you look it up. i go above and beyond to make my customers happy
howard ross
Click to expand...

Howard, I am not in any way saying that you are in the wrong, nor defending Fred......I simply meant that immediately Fred was asked for proof, but none had been posted by you up to that point either. So....it was nothing but hearsay from both sides.

People, including myself, often jump into things too quickly with one side of the story, but when both sides are out there, things may look different. Ya know what I mean? That's why I'd like to see proof from BOTH sides, just to remove any of the "he said, he said" doubt.
 
FRED KICK said:
How about people hearing my side of the story.
We held the 2 snakes for him for over 5 months. After numerous stories he offered me his 4 mojaves as payment for the final $800 balance plus shipping.
I would rather of had the money but I graciously adopted Mr. Ross' deal to end our 5 month stailmate. He originally told me he would pay off the balance within 30 days. 150 days later I accepted his noneating new born mojaves of which 2 never ate and passed (so under weight when I received them, the 2 were less than 45 grams)

If I was being a prick I would have kept Mr. Ross' deposit, but I continually called him and tried to finish our deal.

As far as the 2 pastel females not eating.
They were doing great- unlike the newborns of which his 2 never ate. If he has questions on how to feed his newly acquired pastel ball pythons he could have asked and we could have told him how they got up to their size about 1000 grams as quickly as they did. As far as pastel balls loosing color over time, is an unfortunate fact in over 5 months, they usually start to loose some of the vibrant baby colors and dull out.

So howard you can call me and I can "unlock" the feeding dilema and tell you how to feed subadult ball pythons.

Oh and for the record...I just read all of the threads posted about me and I came across one that struck me as kind of funny. I just set up an account with this website TODAY so how would I have ben able to threaten you since you can't post on here unless you have an account.


Fred Kick
Click to expand...

For some reason the areas in bold strike me as odd.
4 non eating baby mojaves , 2 never ate and died.

I've had baby BPs come in without ever taking their first meal , only 5 grams lost in the 6 - 8 weeks it took to get them eating. How long did you have them before they died?

Sub adult pastels you got up to 1000 grams. You can unlock the " feeding dilema" for the snakes you sent and suggest you know how to get them big quick but you can't get babies to eat.

how is it you can brag about one but complain about the other if you have this feeding thing dialed in?
 
Fred, can you prove in any way that those bps died and do you have proof of their weight?? Since you seemed to scam people before, not sure I, or anyone else for that matter, can believe what you say.
 
the thing that really bothers me is that he killed my mojaves. i had been workin with a very special male mojave that 70-80% of the time poduced partial to fully striped babies. i have kept a bunch of hte females and added a ghost mojave, but i sure did not want to give up that group of girls.

i have kept what has happened to myself and stayed angry with myself. in retrospect i will not let it happen again. i almost let myself get pushed into a deal for a supper cinni that was almost good, but not in my favor enough to wait till mine hatch.

as far as the kick deal. i would have just loved for it to have ended slightly not in my favor. instead i have junk that will be in quarintine for a year and i am out 4 special mojaves and a little cash

sorry to webslave for my language abuse and anyone else that was offended
.
 
FRED KICK said:
How about people hearing my side of the story.
We held the 2 snakes for him for over 5 months. After numerous stories he offered me his 4 mojaves as payment for the final $800 balance plus shipping.
I would rather of had the money but I graciously adopted Mr. Ross' deal to end our 5 month stailmate. He originally told me he would pay off the balance within 30 days. 150 days later I accepted his noneating new born mojaves of which 2 never ate and passed (so under weight when I received them, the 2 were less than 45 grams)
Fred Kick
Click to expand...

One more question ...

If two of the mojaves were so thin and underweight , why did you accept them as payment and send the OP his snakes?
You are not required to ship until payment is satisfied. Under weight or sickly animals are not satisfactory but you accepted them and shipped from your end ,so I'm seeing another hole in your story.
 
photo request

Howard...someone had a good idea about posting photos of the BP's you received on a scale for those of us following this thread to get a better idea of their actual size. Also, just a tip...but if you take them to a vet to get checked out, make sure you keep all paperwork. Please let us know if they're healthy or not. If they're healthy and are close to 1000g, then maybe you could breed them late in the season? (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
 
lucille said:
Harald,
Can you be more specific about what you heard and who you heard it from?
Click to expand...

Not sure if all the links to threads regarding the Kicks and their businesses were included... but here's a local perspective. The Kicks also own Pets Plus in Lockport, NY, which is a retail pet store. Their "Reptile Addicts" wholesale operation is located in the same building.

I got my first snake, a baby ball python, from Pets Plus and had made a point of visiting their large reptile display when I could make the 40 minute trip there. I also bought my ferret there years ago. I have no doubt they love exotic animals.

However, like a lot of people who turn a hobby into a business, sometimes it seems the dollar becomes more important, and there was a big issue last summer in 2006 when the SPCA and DEC were called in to inspect Pets Plus and the wholesale facility due to dirty conditions, illegal animals and emaciated animals. More or less, the conditions were blamed on employees, and that the Kicks were busy with reptile shows and hadn't noticed the employees' neglect of the animals. They did clean the facility up and were supposed to be subject to random reinspections by the SPCA.

Now, my feelings about this are mixed. I was active in the Pets Plus thread, because some of the video I saw from the terrible conditions were quite unacceptible, and they are local to me, one of the few large reptile-centric pet stores. The dead animals found were not just "wholesale loss" that can be expected with importing and wholesaling animals, but whole clutches of recently hatched snakes, bred at the facility, left to die and rot in their hatching containers because of lack of care...

But, Pets Plus was the place that sparked my interest in reptiles. Could it have been an out of control situation where the owners weren't watching employees as closely as they should have? Maybe.

But from what I have heard from people directly involved in the investigation, the owners' attitudes were far from "caring" about the animals and more concerned with dodging charges and getting their higher-dollar morphs returned to them from the SPCA (lower dollar animals that needed medical care were not requested to be returned, quite a few were euthanized). I don't know if the facility was ever re-inspected but have heard that things are much cleaner now.

My two animal transactions with Pets Plus were positive. But that situation last year was enough to make me not want to do business with them for quite a long time until they prove that what happened was a "one time thing". I really hope that they stop acting like animal dealers and more like reptile enthusiasts.
 
What's the matter, Bruce? Is Bud out of town for the week? looking for somewhere to INJECT your FORCE?
 
I purchased a Pastel Yellow Belly from this man, that was said to be born in August of 09.
I received this snake in January. The snake was sent when it was 16 degrees locally that day, He did NOT put the apartment number on the Label. (Although i called to tell him that in particular, the day before) when I got the snake from the UPS facility, rather than the friend’s house that it should have been delivered to, after 730 that evening, the animal was cold and limp, and weighed 109 grams, with a feed card claiming to have fed him 16 times. A friend of mine, virtually, breathed life back into him. Reviving him, from almost certain death. However, he still died last week. I advised Fred of the situation immediately. his response was "I'm sorry to hear about this. I once received a ball python that was almost frozen solid, and he snapped out of it within a few hours. They are very resilient snakes. Let me know how he does and if there is any problems." followed by "as long as it's made it this far, it will be fine. Keep him at 88 degrees or higher for another week or two." (This was taken directly from the emails he sent me)

His overall solution to the problem is NOT, "Let me make it right and refund your money, or give you another snake." Rather he immediately stated, "on my original paper work from our conversation, you gave me an address with no apartment number. We do not guarantee shipping on orders that are miss handled by the carrier. The snake should not be eating pinkies, it will never eat pinkies they need something with fur. I do not appreciate calls from some third party whom says he has the snake now. I can offer you some sort of discount on another order. We only guarantee live arrival, and the snake is still alive. let me know what your interested in, and ill give you a discounted price."
He expected me to purchase another snake from him, in order to make things right. In other words, he wants to sell me a second snake, at a slightly discounted price, so he gets to sales out of the deal, and pulls nothing back out of his pocket. I’m attempting to warn EVERYBODY on Kingsnake, NOT to purchase snakes from this man. He has no morals. He could care less about his customers. And clearly, he mistreats his animals, by underfeeding them. DO NOT BUY ANIMALS FROM FRED KICK!!!!!!!!
 
donaskdonttell said:
I purchased a Pastel Yellow Belly from this man, that was said to be born in August of 09.
I received this snake in January. The snake was sent when it was 16 degrees locally that day, He did NOT put the apartment number on the Label. (Although i called to tell him that in particular, the day before) when I got the snake from the UPS facility, rather than the friend’s house that it should have been delivered to, after 730 that evening, the animal was cold and limp, and weighed 109 grams, with a feed card claiming to have fed him 16 times. A friend of mine, virtually, breathed life back into him. Reviving him, from almost certain death. However, he still died last week. I advised Fred of the situation immediately. his response was "I'm sorry to hear about this. I once received a ball python that was almost frozen solid, and he snapped out of it within a few hours. They are very resilient snakes. Let me know how he does and if there is any problems." followed by "as long as it's made it this far, it will be fine. Keep him at 88 degrees or higher for another week or two." (This was taken directly from the emails he sent me)

His overall solution to the problem is NOT, "Let me make it right and refund your money, or give you another snake." Rather he immediately stated, "on my original paper work from our conversation, you gave me an address with no apartment number. We do not guarantee shipping on orders that are miss handled by the carrier. The snake should not be eating pinkies, it will never eat pinkies they need something with fur. I do not appreciate calls from some third party whom says he has the snake now. I can offer you some sort of discount on another order. We only guarantee live arrival, and the snake is still alive. let me know what your interested in, and ill give you a discounted price."
He expected me to purchase another snake from him, in order to make things right. In other words, he wants to sell me a second snake, at a slightly discounted price, so he gets to sales out of the deal, and pulls nothing back out of his pocket. I’m attempting to warn EVERYBODY on Kingsnake, NOT to purchase snakes from this man. He has no morals. He could care less about his customers. And clearly, he mistreats his animals, by underfeeding them. DO NOT BUY ANIMALS FROM FRED KICK!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

This is realy starting to get annoying, you keep posting the same story on every thred about the kicks, but when people ask questions you dont reply to them, you just find another thred to post your same sorry ass story on. You gave him an incomplete address, you had the snake for over 2 months before it died, and you arnt telling the whole story.
 
For starters, if im not here to reply to you 4 seconds after you inquired, I apologize, I some of us have LIVES outside of Fauna. Perhaps youre sitting in front of your monitor expecting an IMMEDIATE response. But, it doesn't work that way. The fact of the matter is, i realize i did not give him a complete address, and i called him, to ensure that he had the complete address. and yeah, i had the snake for two months, trying to keep it alive. Guess why. because Fred didn't want to take any responsibility for sending me a snake when it was 16 degrees outdoors. So if you have a question, try asking me directly, and try REAL HARD, to wait patiently, for me to respond in the future. Id be more than happy to do so. Would you like to see the emails? Im all to happy to show them to you.
 
On the thred "Fred kick-Inquiry" you posted at 6:25, on the thred "good guy good experiance" you posted at 6:27, and on the Reptile Addicts thred you posted at 6:28, questions have been raised on all threds between that time and 9:00pm, then at about 11, you post the same story on this thred insted of posting the emails or answering any of the questions put forth in other threds.

I do have a life outside of fauna. Do you? you seem to be searching for every thred with freds name in it and posting that same thing.
 
Ya think???!!! Youre DAMNED right I am. I'm trying to keep some other poor sap from having the same experience I had. I'm posting on every thread that mentions his name. Why don't you try asking me directly, rather than making it seem like Im avoiding the questions. Now considering the fact that i posted at 625,6,7 & 8, and since you're apparently keeping up with my posts (STALKER ALERT!!!!) I will post the messages that I exchanged with Fred. Now, see how easy that was?
 
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