Genetic Snow X SHTCTB

[KelliH]

as anyone can clearly see what this is all about . $$$

I can't speak for anyone else but IMO it isn't about the money, it's about integrity and honesty. Which, unfortunately, are both sometimes lacking in this business.

 

[Monte]

Wow

It's leopard geckos - not eternal salvation . . .

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

Hmmm....

Maybe we need someone to step in and work out everyone's differences in the reptile world? Where is Steve when you need him? Hahahahaha.

 

[groovygeckos]

Does this mean he bred and enough time has elapsed for his hatchlings to emerge, and still has not had his follow up yet???

absolutely not !

as i have said before the females are clean .

my male has been on meds for close to two weeks and is due for a few fecals .

no parasites have come from my collection . each group from each breeder is seperate , quaranteened , i work with them on seperate days even , use gloves , god what else , you have no idea and have been taking fecal samples to my vet as often as i can get it very fresh .

i know exactly what i am doing here . i am not some child that you can talk about in this way !

 

[groovygeckos]

i invested alot of emotion into the snows before i even saw them in person .

greed ? OMG not at all . that is so funny ! i make $30 an hour at work my friend . it is not about the money , and if i had to pay three times as much and sell at 20% i would have because it is something i have developed a passion for .

first ,
i fell in love with a gecko ( i admit it ) , and with the thought of hatching the baby geckos and watching them grow .

i wanted the snows because i love the look of them ,the SS just blow my mind , and the babies are always alot of fun to see change .

second , its a big investment , it takes alot to be able to do that . you kind of have to get your mind set to be able to do something like that and it just doesnt go away .

i put forth emotion , interest , dedication , and well alot of money ,

i was very into it and ready , only to have someone slap me in the face .

you really have no idea what you are saying or who you are really talking about .
there is alot of BS here about me .

 

[MattP]

Dan P., I have no problem with you...................... but the things you say are very irritating. You just act REALLY WEIRD... and rub people the wrong way. Maybe you shouldn't post here anymore until you develop some better social skills? I hate that all this crap is going on, it really brings the hobby down............

Matt

 

[Bringerofdoom]

Ok, again to clarify this. You said in the e-mail you thought the snow came sick from alex. Then it has only been 2 weeks since you found all this out????. If that is a true genetic snow, then that one that is on meds would have bred a female. right?

I don't see how you can call it quarantined, when you introduce a male to another female within the first month of aquisition. Since you would have to have done just that to have a genetic snow already.....

second , its a big investment , it takes alot to be able to do that . you kind of have to get your mind set to be able to do something like that and it just doesnt go away .

i put forth emotion , interest , dedication , and well alot of money ,

i was very into it and ready , only to have someone slap me in the face .

I'm sure alot of us here know the investments they have in their collections and setups.

The only slaps in the face i see, is the way you react when you can't get what you want.

For someone to brag about how much they invested into their projects, you seem to go about things the wrong way. You manage to slowly peave off a large percentage of the people who would possibly have bought and traded with you.

With the breeding biz, you may have competetors, but they are also potential customers. When you are dealing with high end animals, this is especially true.

I feel like alex was trying to make a right choice with not selling to you. You always seem to hold a grudge with any big breeder. You also just said

"i make $30 an hour at work my friend ".... "if i had to pay three times as much and sell at 20% i would have because it is something i have developed a passion for ."

Which also coincides with other comments of cutting the "bigger guys" out of the biz talk of yours..

 

[jenn]

Ok first let me say that reading all of this made me want to drink real bad!
Dan L, im a little upset with the fact that you KNEW that Alex was be selective on who got the Mac snows and that he trusted you to help out (in a way) with this project. You turned around and sold it right away to someone else. WTF is that?! A verbal agreement is an agreement regardless and in some states is just as binding as a writen one. That is a little.....ok a really disrespectful!

Dan P, how underhanded can you get? What you did was low and increditably screwed up! For someone who doesn't like big breeder then why did you even try to buy from Alex? And let me tell you something else i KNOW Alex and i KNOW he doesn't just NOT sell to someone with out just cause. I'm pretty sure it was more than just your attitude.

i know exactly what i am doing here . i am not some child that you can talk about in this way ![/QUOTE]

And if this statement was true then you would have kept that male away from your collection for awhile instead of just putting him in right away! It DOESN'T matter who it came from and if the first test showed up ok. Some thing don't show up right away. God lord man learn what the hell your doing before you kill off your collection because of YOUR stupidity!

 

[Chris@TSE]

I could honestly care less at this point about Dan Poe. He is the least of my concerns regarding this matter. This is the same individual who not to long ago posted here stating he was new and decided to jump into a few large projects because he felt he would get no where breeding tangs. This is the same individual who has stated he would undercut fellow breeders out of spite and has stated his dislike for numerous reputable breeders that make this hobby what it is today.

Coming from someone with absolutely no background, reputation, or credibility....... It simply makes me laugh. Hysterically I might add.

Great, you've got some money to throw into some expensive projects. So do I, and I have. I make no secret of it, yet my intentions are far from greed. Yours however, well, we've seen for ourselves what you have said. It was quoted a few posts back, thank you Mike. You make an ass of yourself, prove countless times that you are inexperienced yet stubborn, and go on to show us all that you can be underhanded too. You hatch out a handful of leos and you're a pro. You know what you're doing. But of course, your idea of quarantine is a matter of days and simply keeping specimens from the same breeder together CERTAINLY proves you are a pro! Please note my sarcasm, give me a second to laugh a bit more and regain my composure.





Thank you.





I'm sure hell will freeze over before you earn the respect of anybody with the slightest bit of credibility in this hobby. And on top of all of this, no matter which situation you are presented with, you do your best to ignore credible questions, lie, and run your mouth. The best part about all of this? You're doing it to yourself, and we all get to watch. You're on your own, have fun and good luck. Let me know when you actually want to regain some credibility, you can start by collectively gathering your thoughts, and taking the time to articulate them here while adding an unfamiliar addition. Truth. Hope to hear from you soon.

My real concern in this is Mr. Lubinsky. I should actually say disappointment. I've spoken with Alex on a few occasions, and when speaking specifically about the Mack line snows he is very forthcoming. When screening potential buyers I also know it is a bit of a minimized interrogation. He makes quite certain the individuals showing interest in this line have good intentions with this project. There are also verbal agreements made and discussed. He's attempting to protect the value and potential of this line, and has proved to be a very respectable person in my eyes. I trust that he made his position clear on this with every "investor". And I am MORE than certain that Dan understood that he was being selective and protective. If the idea of sale were to arise it is unfathomable that he would not consider this unless he was simply not concerned or had a prior arrangement to obtain the specimen on Dan Poes behalf for "resale" sine Danny boy could not acquire his own. Perhaps there is truth behind the fact that Dan L. was unaware that Alex had denied a sale to Dan P...... But it does not excuse the fact he was well aware of everything else mentioned above.

This to me shows a total and complete lack of respect for those involved in this project. It also shines light on a person’s integrity. And the kick in the teeth was hearing that the sale was in part motivated by a desire for a sports car in the near future, questionably decided days after receiving said animal. It also happened to be the EXACT same animal Dan P. was interested in purchasing. Correspondence with Dan L. also began when conversations with Dan P. were halted. I do not like the cooincidences in this situation, no matter how much I would LOVE to give Dan L. the benifit of doubt in this, I guess I would have to see proof positive that his involvement in this matter was as he described. Perhaps he may provide such information? emails? anything?

No matter which way you slice it, this was wrong. Whether or not he made a previous arrangement with Dan Poe or not. Hopefully Dan L. will shed some light on this a bit later, I'd really appreciate his thoughts. There are too many "coincidences". It simply does not add up.

I apologize in advance for any typos, its a bit late.....

 

[Herpcam]

Once again, thank you all for an entertaining thread. I have to say I thought something like this would happen sooner or later and/or we'd see a ton of high-end geckos being dumped on the classifieds here or on Kingsnake (they usually come with skinny tails and in generally poor condition when this happens). This is one of the reasons we have always recommended to newbies (and I was one once, as well) to just enjoy the geckos and get to understand husbandry (that includes quarantine) and herpetoculture before trying to get the newest, most expensive morphs to get rich off of. I guess we (many of us, probably) saw this coming in threads over the past year.

I have a couple requests...Kelli(and others), please go update your available page(s), I'm dying to send you more $$. Chris, please do something with the weather up there in Buffalo, I'm dying for a box from you.

Thanks much and have a great weekend, everyone.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Once again, thank you all for an entertaining thread. I have to say I thought something like this would happen sooner or later and/or we'd see a ton of high-end geckos being dumped on the classifieds here or on Kingsnake (they usually come with skinny tails and in generally poor condition when this happens). This is one of the reasons we have always recommended to newbies (and I was one once, as well) to just enjoy the geckos and get to understand husbandry (that includes quarantine) and herpetoculture before trying to get the newest, most expensive morphs to get rich off of. I guess we (many of us, probably) saw this coming in threads over the past year.

I have a couple requests...Kelli(and others), please go update your available page(s), I'm dying to send you more $$. Chris, please do something with the weather up there in Buffalo, I'm dying for a box from you.

Thanks much and have a great weekend, everyone.

I'll see what I can do.... I still have a few more strings to pull, but if mother nature dosent cave I'm going to have to bring in a hired gun....

 

[KelliH]

Kelli(and others), please go update your available page(s), I'm dying to send you more $$.

Don't worry, I will when I have geckos available.

 

[robin d.]

Maybe no one else caught this.
"the vet prescribed Flagyl and Panacur , he is feeling better and we are working on follow-up fecal exams "

apparantly dan you did not care about any of the females you were breeding that male to or you would have quarenteened period

which makes this statement FALSE

no parasites have come from my collection . each group from each breeder is seperate , quaranteened , i work with them on seperate days even , use gloves , god what else , you have no idea and have been taking fecal samples to my vet as often as i can get it very fresh .

you have no idea about amebas.....you really have no idea what you have done

and what your "vet" is prescibed is not what is used to treat them.

 

[reptilebreeder]

I've got to say after reading this thread, to the 2 Dans.
Your quarantine procedures, and your ethics (actually I should say your "lack of" in both cases), SUCK.

Why would someone put a $1200+ animal in with their females virtually the day they received it, unless they knew ahead of time that the gecko had to be somewhere else? From an outsider it looks like getting to breed that gecko to your females, was the payment or thank you, for being the go between.
As for the other Dan, you don't want to waste time being a beginner, breeding "just" normals or Tangerines, you want to be one of the big boys right off the bat. Think you can buy that? NO, this thread is a good example that it's not the dollar amount or animals, it's the reputation. People would be posting........"hey, put me down for one of your below market value macks" (wait don't tell me you are getting tons of e-mails and PMs saying just that ) instead of this virtually unanimous disapproval.
A good reputation as a "big" reputable, respected breeder, is earned by hard work; blood, sweat, and tears, and starting off at the bottom, not by buying high dollar animals anyway you can.

And to the two Dans', these are observations from a Leo forum "outsider". Check my post in the Hell thread about Wes, or my post in the Leo thread about Texas, if you think I'm just one of the "flock". Apparently ruffled a few feathers (scales) with some of the Leo members, but it was all in the name of herper camaraderie

 

[groovygeckos]

eeeeeew your nose is brown

you want to be one of the big boys right off the bat.

yea right !

yea , disaproval of all the BS that is being spouted out here noone here is even listening to the truth . so what do they disaprove of ?
the LIES others are spreading
.
like i said earlier i did not know how the ameoba works .

i got clean fecals from the snow male when he arrived , he even ate very well during the first week so i let him breed my females .

quaranteen , what is that for so you can sit and watch your animal die ? i like to know for sure and especially on high-end animals .

my asking chris about his fecals , was after the fact i had the females tested .

i just couldnt see how all of a sudden he had something unless he came that way or it came from my feeders .

yes i know what im doing . did i even say what it is i know ? if you read it correctly , it meant to say i know what i am doing so there is no spread of anything between any of my animals .

did i say i only seperate animals ? NO . that is something someone else is aSSuming from my post . go ahead twist it all to sound derogatory and try to make me look bad .

its really very funny except for the part where everyone is ragging on Dan L . for no reason .

it is really noones business but mine and his ! stay out of it !

 

[groovygeckos]

below market value ? who ever said i was selling for less than anyone else . it certainly has not been my intention .

ill admit a little bit of pay- back to hue here is tempting , but im over it , and its really not the person i am .

better be a little more selective in who you anger ! things have a tendency to come back and bite ya`

besides about two months ago my mother became my partner , she is definately not up to the task .

we now have all of the projects and geckos we were looking for .

 

[Gregg M]

quaranteen , what is that for so you can sit and watch your animal die ? i like to know for sure and especially on high-end animals .

Out of everything you have said, this is about the most rediculous...... Are you serious?????? Unreal...... Dan, even after everyone else ripped you up in other threads, I still saw your side somewhat..... This thread however is showing your true colors and what your ajenda realy is..... It is kinda making me wonder why I did not see what everyone else saw much earlier on..... Quite silly

 

[Crestedleo]

Dan, when Reptilebreeder said

A good reputation as a "big" reputable, respected breeder, is earned by hard work; blood, sweat, and tears, and starting off at the bottom, not by buying high dollar animals anyway you can.

IF absoultley right! Do you think If I went and got an APTOR and a Hybino that I would be a big name breeder right off the bat? OF COURSE NOT!!! Kelli, Robin, Alberto and the others all got to where they are now by exactly that: Hard work, blood, sweat and tears. The High end animals the have and are producing are results of that.

 

[Hues1]

ill admit a little bit of pay- back to hue here is tempting , but im over it , and its really not the person i am .

better be a little more selective in who you anger ! things have a tendency to come back and bite ya`

besides about two months ago my mother became my partner , she is definately not up to the task .

Pay back?! pay back for what...because I chose not to sell a leopard gecko to you for VERY OBVIOUS REASONS? THOSE SAME VERY REASONS WHY YOU'RE HERE trying to defend yourself now? THE SAME VERY REASONS why you were not a good candidate to work with the Mack project, THE SAME VERY REASON why countless others wont sell or buy from you ( not that you ever had anything to sell...producing a whole whopping 3 maybe 4 geckos in a 10 year span wont get you very far ).

Hey POSER...how many eggs do you have?! how many will survive? How many of your geckos probably have amoebas? Better yet...why dont you post a picture of your adult Mack...the cats out of the bag, nothing to hide...RIGHT? I'd bet that poor Mack snow is ultra thin and probably on its way out. Think of the waste you POSER.

This is why, BIG REPUTABLE BREEDERS pick and choose who gets to work with a project first, because POSERS LIKE POE TYPICALLY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING!

Selective with my anger ?! POSER...you just dont get it, you're not a THREAT you're more of a tick or mite that has infested something and thats hard to get rid off...GOT IT. YOU'RE AN ANNOYANCE.

You've been on these forums since august 2004, in that LITTLE SPAN of time, you've managed to piss off ALOT OF PEOPLE, become completely despised, ruined a reputation you dont even have yet (well not entirely true if you count the bad one), stepped on countless big and little toes, and above all else...started your very own "poe is a POSER fan club"....I'm sure all of the above will get you very far in this business.

Do you really, honestly, believe you can still make it ?! This thread has had over 2500 views...do you really think that people who have been reading through this thread wont talk about the "POSER" who has been rubbing people the wrong way? You havent even started to sell anything yet, SOOOO....you dont have any type of reputation or past transaction history to fall back on....you think this will make people want to deal with you ?!

Then we have the self admitted amoebas issue....Heck, you could very well be one of the BIGGEST, LARGEST, MOST RESPECTED, REPUTABLE BREEDERS in the world right now... I along with countless others who care about our collections wouldnt buy donkey poop off of you right now because of the amoeba issue.

"Come and get it...come and get it...leopard geckos with FREE AMOEBAS! We guarantee every single animal we sell will include a FREE AMOEBA count of no less than 200...your complete UNSATISFACTION GUARANTEED ! TOP MORPHS FOR LESS BROUGHT TO YOU EXCLUSIVELY VIA DAN POE OF GROOVY GECKOS."

P.S. Big Boys dont need their mommys

 

[robin d.]

Then we have the self admitted amoebas issue....Heck, you could very well be one of the BIGGEST, LARGEST, MOST RESPECTED, REPUTABLE BREEDERS in the world right now... I along with countless others who care about our collections wouldnt buy donkey poop off of you right now because of the amoeba issue

thank you!! nor should he even begin to sell any offspring until he knows every single animal, after numerous fecals, over a long period of time are completely clean.... and this is something that wont clear up in a month MAYBE 6 months and hopefully even with in a year... sooo anything you sell (or attempt to) this year no matter what morph or whatever is worthless.
i only buy from certain people kelli, marcia, jeremy, monte, nicole and kevin and a handfull of others for a reason and even those people's animals even kelli my best friend i always quarenteen. period

Kelli, Robin, Alberto and the others all got to where they are now by exactly that: Hard work, blood, sweat and tears. The High end animals the have and are producing are results of that.

i am no big breeder... im just a peon. i did start on low end geckos and worked my way up but i am in no way a big breeder and lack the experience of those like kelli, marcia and albey whom have been doing this for years