Genetic Snow X SHTCTB

[Herpcam]

I guess it won't hurt to comment seriously this time, since it doesn't look like this situation is going away any time soon.

Dan P. - noone likes a liar (even though everyone lies about something). It isn't easy to lie and get away with it, especially in this business and with the way you have spread yourself out via emails and message threads. Whether you realize it or not, it seems like you lied, and the 'public's perception is our reality. For your own sake and the sake of your 'business', you will need to do something about your situation, whether you view it as being your fault or not. You need to come clean if you ever want to see your reputation worth anything around here. Sure, you'll sell some geckos, because there will always be people out there who want to get a gecko cheaply, no matter the risks or consequences, and there will be the few who have not seen this thread or heard about you. Then, if your geckos are still sick or if they encounter your attitude, they'll come here or onto KS and complain about the sick gecko they got from you and/or your attitude and we'll refer them to this now-32 page thread.

What I'm trying to say is, take some action in a positive direction to fix this situation for yourself and the sake of your business and our hobby. I think only you can start to turn this thing around, if it can be done. In order to do that, you'll likely have to make a full disclosure, preferrably in public, to undo any of this mess you can. You need to get the geckos professional help if they have a problem (just assuming you're not doing it based on Marcia's post). In this business reputation is everything if you're not just selling to the neighborhood kids and local pet stores.

Once again, Dan, you have the power to undo any of this that is undoable. It's all on you.

 

[Chris@TSE]

the reason why I was being selective of whom they were sent too, the reason why not everyone who inquired about a Mack received one, the reason why I screened potential buyers in order to ensure everyone else who was working with them would be protected.....so the above statement would not happen.

The Mack snows were far from being a no strings attached "sale".

This statement right here sums it up. Alex made the situation surrounding the mack sales VERY CLEAR. Dan L. went into this knowing beforehand he was going to be suppling Poe with the Mack. He selected the same one Poe was interested in obtaining.


He told Alex what he wanted to hear in a deliberate attempt to manipulate the situation. In order to get Alex to agree to the sale he lied. If he had told the TRUTH none of this would have happened, he would not have been supplied a mack.

what kills me is not a few posts ago he admits to setting up a breeding loan scenario with poe prior to delivery, yet when this was all begining he stated that Poe "swooped in" and bought it immediately after his interest in some sports car motivated his decision to sell, merely three or four days later of course..


The inconcistancies are piling up. Quit the crap and be straightforward. Please.

 

[Chris@TSE]

I do believe I'll be making a very justified post involving both parties on the BOI within the next day or so. It's about time this situation was "set in stone" for all to see..........The circumstances surrounding this ordeal deserve the proper attention. I will however give the dynamic duo time to reflect upon thier actions. Perhaps the truth will simply come out willingly rather than forcefully.

Its quite sad people have to do these things to get to the bottom of simple situations. Its fairly cut and dry, can't get much more obvious. Do yourself a favor guys, save the BS. Its only making matters worse.

I'm sure everyone here would appreciate a bit of honesty, without the inconsistancies encountered thusfar.....

I'm also asking those who have emailed me thier first hand experiences involving these parties to repeat what they stated for the public here. They deserve to know, and perhaps it will motivate our "friends" here into making the right choices. Too little to late for them unfortunately, but atleast we wont have to listen to prefabricated garbage anymore. I thank you in advance.

 

[Gregg M]

All I have to say is WOW!!! Never thought that a few questions about the genetics of a baby leo would turn into such a story..... The truth has a funny way of showing its sometimes ugly head..... Un freakin believable..... I have to say that I agree 100% with every post you have made here Chris..... And you know I am not easy to win over....LOL..... I also agree 100% with Alex and why he only let a select few in on the snow project..... His thoughts and feelings were in the right place, unfortunately one of the people he let in on the project crapped all over it...... As Monte said, you will never get an admition of guilt from the two parties but it does not take away from the situation at hand..... It is an unfortunate situation and I relly hope it does not tarnish this project for the rest of you..... I know when I am ready to pick up a snow or two, it will be from either Alex himself or one of Alexs hand picked few.....

 

[HERPCVT]

amoebas

Listen everyone, to those of you that are making a HUGE deal of amoebas killing the colony:

Unless you are doing a fecal exam every week with a medical background on reading fecals...you all have NOTHING to give this guy crap about. Protozoans are only going to "wipe out a whole colony" if you let them. If you don't do fecals weekly and deworm properly, AND clean properly so they don't reinfect themselves, then good luck to you all.

Before you completely bad mouth someone on protozoans, at least know what you are talking about. And please, if you are going to say "my vet said ....", well please go to a few more, before you start preaching. One vets opinion on exotic fecals compared to what you truely learn in school, is completely different. I guarantee if EVERYONE here did fecals on their animals daily for one month...each and every one of you would find one thing. That is because all protozoans, (yes, including amoebas,) can live in the animal's body and cause no harm. The truth is you aren't suppose to treat most reptile parasites, unless the animal is showing symptoms, BUT the reason it is so important to treat animals anyhow, is because these protozoans are zoonotic.

Now if in fact this guy lied about taking the leos to the vets and he is deworming with store bought products, then I don't agree with it. But if he truely did get fecals done and found a few parasites, then treat and move on. Proper husbandry will end this parasites life cycle quickly.

Point of my rant is this:
Protozoans are going to hurt YOU personally, before they kill your colony.


I am not siding with anyone. This is only regarding my medical knowledge on the parasite issue.

Thanks

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

So, let me ask you, have you dealt with amoebas? So, how easy were they to treat? How do you clean the cage surfaces to treat for amoebas? It is a huge deal, one of the worst things you can get.

Listen everyone, to those of you that are making a HUGE deal of amoebas killing the colony:

Unless you are doing a fecal exam every week with a medical background on reading fecals...you all have NOTHING to give this guy crap about. Protozoans are only going to "wipe out a whole colony" if you let them. If you don't do fecals weekly and deworm properly, AND clean properly so they don't reinfect themselves, then good luck to you all.

Before you completely bad mouth someone on protozoans, at least know what you are talking about. And please, if you are going to say "my vet said ....", well please go to a few more, before you start preaching. One vets opinion on exotic fecals compared to what you truely learn in school, is completely different. I guarantee if EVERYONE here did fecals on their animals daily for one month...each and every one of you would find one thing. That is because all protozoans, (yes, including amoebas,) can live in the animal's body and cause no harm. The truth is you aren't suppose to treat most reptile parasites, unless the animal is showing symptoms, BUT the reason it is so important to treat animals anyhow, is because these protozoans are zoonotic.

Now if in fact this guy lied about taking the leos to the vets and he is deworming with store bought products, then I don't agree with it. But if he truely did get fecals done and found a few parasites, then treat and move on. Proper husbandry will end this parasites life cycle quickly.

Point of my rant is this:
Protozoans are going to hurt YOU personally, before they kill your colony.


I am not siding with anyone. This is only regarding my medical knowledge on the parasite issue.

Thanks

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Jane Doe?

HERPCVT
Registered User


Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East coast
Posts: 1
Name : Jane Doe
Rep Power: 0
Trader Rating: (0)

Warning Level: 0


OK, so who in the heck are you, Jane Doe? If you are going to come onto the Forum and post, please have the courtesy to provide us with your name.

Thank you.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

HERPCVT
Registered User


Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East coast
Posts: 1
Name : Jane Doe
Rep Power: 0
Trader Rating: (0)

Warning Level: 0


OK, so who in the heck are you, Jane Doe? If you are going to come onto the Forum and post, please have the courtesy to provide us with your name.

Thank you.

that would be nice, before "JD" Starts giving out parasite lessons to the forums it would be nice to know who she/he is.

Chris, can't you do the IP thing since you are a high level member?

 

[HERPCVT]

well,

Yes, amoebas are treatable. Metronidazole works great depending. Cleaning with bleach should work just fine. The reason I chose not to post my name, is for the simple fact of not wanting to be harrassed. It's that simple.

Have a great day everyone.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

well Jane Doe its hard to take someone seriously about a subjuct that is that critical if they cannot even post their true name. Just my 02 cents

 

[Chris@TSE]

Chris, can't you do the IP thing since you are a high level member?

I do believe I am supposed to have the ability but I am unaware how to access it. If you find out, let me know and I'll look for you.

 

[Bringerofdoom]

Well i'm going to assume that jane doe is a vet, based upon her knowledge of amoebas. I Could be wrong about that.

 

[Chris@TSE]

I could honestly care less who she is. If she was able to read she would plainly see that Dan Poe has already lied numerous times about his quarantine methods and the measures he took to seek medical assistance. Its proven, no doubt about it. He has contact emembers of this community in efforts to self medicate to save money.

He has $1200 to spend on an animal yet refuses to offer proper care?

He flat out lied about everything regarding his husbandry. His idea of quarantine is a matter of HOURS or seperating new animals in groups according to who produced them. I apologize profusely and cannot find any other way of saying this, he is simply braindead. I would not purchase from this individual even if he was the last remaining breeder on this earth.

 

[Bringerofdoom]

He has $1200 to spend on an animal yet refuses to offer proper care?

He flat out lied about everything regarding his husbandry. His idea of quarantine is a matter of HOURS or seperating new animals in groups according to who produced them. I apologize profusely and cannot find any other way of saying this, he is simply braindead. I would not purchase from this individual even if he was the last remaining breeder on this earth.

I can agree with that chris. To top it off he brags about his $30 an hour job too.

He's so much in the rush of trying to produce first (Probably to cut others out, at that) He's thrown the books of ethics and husbandry out the window, to "persue his dream"..... If his dream was to compeletly destroy a biz, before it even had started. Congrats to him, mission accomplished.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Indeed. the only thing he accomplished was the complete and utter DESTRUCTION of whatever was left of his reputation. He has managed now to bring another one down with him as well, and it seems he went along willingly. What a shame.

 

[HERPCVT]

Right,

As I stated before, if he did lie about taking him to the vet, than I agree that this was wrong. I have read the arguements and do not disagree with any of you. If he has lied about something, than be all means, the truth will be shown. I simply just wanted to state my medical knowledge on a certain subject and clear the air about the misconceptions.

Thank you eeveryone.

 

[Chris@TSE]

thank you

 

[Hues1]

Hey its just mites, hey its just ticks, hey its just tapeworms, hey its just pinworms, hey is just coccidia, hey its just amoebas.

Either way you look at it...I DONT WANT IT IN MY COLLECTION.

I've spent way too much time, energy, resources, and money to ensure I have a healthy and viable collection that I can be extremely proud of.

I had those specific Mack snows in my possesion since the first week of November...I didnt even ship a single one til late Decemeber, why? because I can be trusted to care about the health and collections of other people by ensuring that animals in my possesion and care are up to the standards I have in place for my collection. Can we say the same for poe ?

Can a lieing undermining person really be trusted to provide the adequate health care to the infected animals ? can a lieing undermining person be dependant on to provide healthy specimens that are parasitic free ?

Can a lieing undermining be trusted to not sell any animals until the parasitic problem has been disposed of?

you're missing the point, amoebas dont just up and walk away because you poliltely asked them too.

Can we trust that this specific person with the problem can be relied on to cure the problem ? thats the point.

Everyone here knows that its curable...but everyone here isnt stupid enough to believe that it just ups and walks away either. It is a time and energy consuming process to combat ANY TYPE of reptile parasite, amoebas can and may take up to months upon months to rectify and eliminate, then on top of that...theres the care of the reptile itself, making sure the animal is properly hydrated and its electrolyte levels are up and sufficient, tube feeding if its too weak and emaciated, keeping it from chilling, constantly checking on its progess...etc. For you to say just treat it with flagyl/metronizadole is as bad as saying just take a tylenol and call me in the morning.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Everyone here knows that its curable...but everyone here isnt stupid enough to believe that it just ups and walks away either. It is a time and energy consuming process to combat ANY TYPE of reptile parasite, amoebas can and may take up to months upon months to rectify and eliminate, then on top of that...theres the care of the reptile itself, making sure the animal is properly hydrated and its electrolyte levels are up and sufficient, tube feeding if its too weak and emaciated, keeping it from chilling, constantly checking on its progess...etc. For you to say just treat it with flagyl/metronizadole is as bad as saying just take a tylenol and call me in the morning.

NOW that sounds like an educated answer that can be trusted!!!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

yeah, right...

Well i'm going to assume that jane doe is a vet, based upon her knowledge of amoebas. I Could be wrong about that.

Well, Im going to ASSume that Jane Doe is a TROLL, and nothing else. Someone with those credentials would not be unwilling to provide thier full name, not to mention all the spelling a grammatical errors in the posts. Anonymous posters have absolutely no credibility in my eyes. Anyone with a copy of "Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Roger Klingenberg, DVM can read and quote information on parasitic infections. (Except Dan Poe... right, Dan?)

The fact of the matter is not just anyone's knowledge of parasites... it is the clear and blatant disrespect and disregard for this special gecko morph and those that have worked so hard to develop it, and the shameful lack of honesty, ethics, and integrity that is mandatory in this reptile community. I have a very difficult time trying to conceive that someone is more concerned about producing potentially valuable offspring than the health and lives of the animals themselves... theirs or anyone elses.

Chris and Alex, you have my complete support. Thank you for digging below the surface to help enlighten the rest of us.