Genetic Snow X SHTCTB

[Chris@TSE]

Wow, {sarcasm}you guys have great quarantine practices!{/sarcasm}

I was JUST about to get to that.... lol

 

[groovygeckos]

dont you have anything better to do ?
FYI Dan says he does his own fecal-exams and has the experience .

i am pretty sure , he would not be introducing an animal of unknown health to any of his collection .

nor would i !

like i said earlier , the Snow male was fine when he arrived here (from fecal smear and float) and even ate very well . and the females have all checked out since .

the vet prescribed Flagyl and Panacur , he is feeling better and we are working on follow-up fecal exams .

 

[Xavier]

To whom it may concern

I inquired on this very topic about Dan Poe's snow het albinos which he may have available later this year. I hope this doesn't make anyone think badly about me. I care very much about my repitation here and have done nothing to have any one question me. I mearly saw a project which sounds intresting by no means was a trying to see to be cheap by not buying from a top breeder he happened to be the first I seen speak of snows whcih where het for another morph. I know there is much debate about Dan Poe here but I guess I truely under estimated it. I personnally have nothing against any member on fauna and would like to keep it that way.

 

[Chris@TSE]

No worries Xavier, even with the given timeline, the chances that hatching is a mack are slim to none. The time frame barley allows for it, it would frankly be a miracle. A miracle obtained with absolutely no quarantine or attention to the welfare of questionable specimens.

If you want to obtain legitimate specimens there will be plenty available when the time is right, I would HIGHLY suggest using another source, for obvious reasons. There is no use dealing with someone who cannot be honest about a cut and dry situation. There are very few reputable people who would sell to Dan Poe even before this, now not only has that situation worsened, I seriously doubt anyone will buy from him either.

Talk about destroying yourself and your investment Daniel. I certainly hope your mother did not expect to see any return on your guys investment. You're screwed, and its your own fault.

 

[Chris@TSE]

i am pretty sure , he would not be introducing an animal of unknown health to any of his collection .

nor would i !


Okay, less than four days in his posession he paired it with the three females he pictured ehre and sent it on its way to you. That my friend is far from a quarantine or safe procedure.

You are now advertising a hatchling produced by your mack. Based on when you recieved it, time alloted for egg production, incubation, ect....

You did not quarantine the animal either.


Please, do not insult our intelligence. Have you forgotten who you are speaking too?

 

[Dan Lubinsky]

I breed these animals to see what comes out, nothing more, nothing less. I sell animals to make room for new ones, I give away free animals to my buyers and neighborhood kids. I DO see where you're coming from, I told you I offered to breed some of Dan P.'s animals even before I received it. Dan liked them, I wanted one thing only, to see what would happen breeding it to an albino, nothing will change your minds about this big conspiracy. Please take a step back and look at what you're saying. Did I freak out at the Daytona Expo when Kelli didn't come thru with the "best" Electra sib shed promised in exchange for a redstripe male ? I'm not going to get defensive, take it or leave it.

 

[Gregg M]

Wow, this is getting better with every post....LOL..... Am I wrong for enjoying this alittle???? I must agree that keeping the new arival separate from the collection (two collections in this case) should have been priority over being one of the first to make a hypo Mack snow..... That in its self shows alot about a persons prioroties and what they stand for..... It is a shame that a few people looking to get in the breeding buisiness like to shoot themselves in the foot and step on everyone elses toes in the process..... Sometimes the greatest words are the words never spoken......

 

[Gregg M]

Dan, I breed for the same reason you do..... I make no profit from what I sell (mostly hots)..... But if I made a verbal agreement with another breeder, I would stick to it..... And from what I have heard, Alex layed out some pretty clear guide lines......

 

[Chris@TSE]

Dan, Gregg is right. You were well aware of the situation. You know that Dan P. was denied by Alex. You know he was VERY selective in whom he sold these specimens too. You also know that he would have purchased said animal back at twice its value rather than see you do this........

Your motives are more than obvious. Please, answer the question I asked you previously. Did you or did you not agree to purchase the mack snow for Dan with the intention of pairing them with your albinos and then shipping the animal to him. Answer truthfully, it is the least you can do after destroying these peoples confidence and trust in you.

 

[Crestedleo]

I am I missing something here?

I'm NOT trying to be off topic here or take sides(correct me if it sounds like I am) but it seems like there is something here that I am missing...or just not understanding. It sounds to me like Alex got ripped off. If anyone could fill me in better on this or explain it better it would be appriciated, just PM me or email me at [email protected] I would like to know what Dan P. really wanted the Mack for. This is just what I am getting here, and I think I misunderstood or am lost somewhere... sorry to disrupt anyone with this post...

 

[Chris@TSE]

I also would like to add I had great respect for you previously. I am VERY disappointed that you allowed this to happen. You know thesteps Alex took to protect this project from being exploited. You have now handed it over to a child who has previously stated his intentions were to undercut fellow breeders and basically ruin the market on said specimens out of spite.

What have you done............

 

[Chris@TSE]

I'm NOT trying to be off topic here or take sides(correct me if it sounds like I am) but it seems like there is something here that I am missing...or just not understanding. It sounds to me like Alex got ripped off. If anyone could fill me in better on this or explain it better it would be appriciated, just PM me or email me at [email protected] I would like to know what Dan P. really wanted the Mack for. This is just what I am getting here, and I think I misunderstood or am lost somewhere... sorry to disrupt anyone with this post...

Basically....

Dan P asked Alex numerous times to buy a mack snow, and was denied for various obvious reason. He was trying to protect the project from people like Dan P. and for good reason.

Dan L purchased one from Alex under false pretense and then in turn sold it to Dan P

 

[Crestedleo]

Thanks for clearing that up Chris!

 

[Chris@TSE]

anytime

 

[Crestedleo]

Also,

Dan P. Exaclty why would you want to undercut fellow (or non fellow) breeders and ruin the "said specimens"??? What is the point of that? You would obviously have alot ( and now do) of angry people on you.

 

[Dan Lubinsky]

Chris, You've already come to your conclusion and nothing will change that. Please re-read what I said. I did NOT know that Dan P. was blackballed from your project. I didn't make any profit from this. I'd rather trade than buy-sell any day. I've never gone to someone who I've bought an animal from and told them I sold it. Come to think of it, I've seen animals I've sold/traded listed at several times what I sold/traded for (right Kelli ?) "Oh Dan, I've just got to have that redstripe male, I'll add him to my breeders". Will follow this thread tomorrow, not sidestepping.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

well Grant I think I get it

Dan P was unable to buy a Co-Dom snow from Alex
Dan L was able to buy the Co-dom snow from Alex

Dan L bought the co-dom, got it on a thursday(?) in Dec mated to his females over the weekend then sent it to Dan P on the collowing monday (?)

Now Dan P has co-dom snow babies he has posted pics of that would mean immediate mating upon receipt the end of Dec to have hatchlings the middle or March

so Either it was a plot the entire time for Dan L to buy the co-dom snow FOR Dan P and as a "fee" Dan L was able to breed it to his females for a few days to go behind a breeders back on a new line

or Dan L bought the co-dom for Dan P, lied about what he wanted it for just to get the leo, then sent it to Dan P after he mated it to his females

Either way, it was a back sided deal, behind Alex's back to get a co-dom snow to a buyer who Alex refused to sell to

 

[Chris@TSE]

Then why when corresponding with Alex have you decided not to speak of this until now, unless of course you were hiding something.

Even if you did NOT know Dan, you know how well he was protecting this project. You also know the potential it holds and the importance. You showed no concern for this, you stated you wanted a corvette this fall and decided to sell. Okay, I'll buy that, then why not simply sell the animal back to Alex? Or atleast work with Alex to find a buyer, which would not have been very hard.....

I refuse to beleive for a second that this did not cross your mind. You knew exactly what you were dealing with, you also knew that a select few had a great deal of money invested in this particular ground-floor project.

You jeopardized all of it for your own personal gain. Perhaps it was not all for money, but you still did it. I'm sorry, but I would have honestly expected more of you. I cannot express in words how truley disappointed I am in you.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

Basically....

Dan P asked Alex numerous times to buy a mack snow, and was denied for various obvious reason. He was trying to protect the project from people like Dan P. and for good reason.

Dan L purchased one from Alex under false pretense and then in turn sold it to Dan P

Well at least I think I got the raw deal right, jsut took me 10 times longer to explain it and type it lol

 

[Chris@TSE]

I would also like to add that the chances you purchased an animal like this and then out of the blue decided to sell it three or four days later is next to impossible to believe. If Alex had known you intended on purchasing it simply to pair with your albinos then sell to a random individual you would not have recieved it, therefore you told Alex what he wanted to hear. If your wife in fact raised a fit about a $1200+ gecko and you decided to sell it I do believe you would have contacted Alex about it considering the circumstances around its purchase. All the trouble he has gone through to screen potential buyers. You can certainly understand why your story does not and will not hold water. I am asking you to please elaborate on this and make me understand. I want to, believe me I do. But I simply cannot and willnot believe there was not an alteriave motive behind the purchase. Especially with all the trouble Dan P went to refrain from posting the adult photo and the fact you neglected to mention any of this to Alex until now. It is also amusing that Dan P. went out of his way to share is acquisition of an APTOR soon after obtaining it yet has kept his mack acquisition an absolute secret until he produced a hatchling he believed is a mack. This is all very suspect, and if you think about it for a second, you can see why. either way, no matter what, what you did was wrong. You could have gone about this a million other ways, and you destroyed the confidence of many reputable people in this industry by doing this based on the correspondence I have already received today. Think this through, and then please elaborate on this situation honestly. I'd really like to know. We all have a right to know.