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getting " envenomated " can get you ........

Harald, Please beleve me. yes I WAS A STUPID IDIOT FOR WHAT I DID 110%. i will admit that all day if i have to, I understand that a permit will not make some 1 stick their hands in the cage, but it will make it harder for inexperienced people to go and buy one. Like i did.
 
Vinny D said:
I know what it is like to almost die from a snake bite.I just dont want it to happen to others.
Click to expand...
There it is...the caption on the poster, and a quote from Vinny himself.
The picture is of Vinny lying in the hospital bed. I can see it clear as day.
 
Don't worry, Vinny. I'm done poking fun...until you throw out more ammo, lol.

But I mean what said about the legislative process. I've seen it at work, I've tried to influence it. but once it starts...
 
You make a very good point that i over looked Rick, rember im only 20 and you guys have been doing this for many many many more years than me. im just trying to say it WILL be a good idea for a permit system. not only for you and me, but for everyone in the neighbor hoods where people own venomous snakes.
 
Vinny D said:
As far as how many people under the age of 18 have purchased a venomous snake since i have been here. All i know is ALOUT I NEVER see one vendor card someone at a show i have been too.
Click to expand...

Than you target the vender. Period. And who cares if they don't like it. It is irresponsicble for them to sell to a minor just cuz they want the $$.
I say turn them in, and let them reap the rewards for the idiotic move they just pulled.

Rick
 
Well im sorry for trying to make the keepers of venomous reptiles a little safer. by having all venomous reptiles on record. ok here is an example: some one gets tagged by their hot, his wife dosent know what kind of snake it is. he is screwed, but if his snakes were on some kind of record well than maybe his live will be saved. im not trying to argue with you guys. I respect everything you say.
 
hhmoore said:
There it is...the caption on the poster, and a quote from Vinny himself.
The picture is of Vinny lying in the hospital bed. I can see it clear as day.
Click to expand...


Actually it's not. it is the truth. Im not trying to be some poster boy really, but not only me this happens to many more people than just me.
 
That is all well and good, but if he has more than one (and they are not all NA crotalids), then what? Do the rescuers guess at what bit him? Of course the assumption you are basing this on is that the guy is unconscious, or otherwise unable to identify the snake. Don't get me wrong, Vinny. I am not opposed to a reasonable permit/license system - I can't stress that enough.

What is your opinion on the procurement of antivenom? I'm sure you have considered that, since this is something you have discussed with a respected member of the herpetological community for quite some time now
 
Vinny D said:
Im pretty sure 6 people have been envenomated in the past 5 years, but only 2 in captivity including me.

As for how many hot's that were sold in PA i couldent tell you ALOUT. i go to just about every Hamburg show. and i see all kinds of species of hot's leaving the builging.

As far as how many people under the age of 18 have purchased a venomous snake since i have been here. All i know is ALOUT I NEVER see one vendor card someone at a show i have been too.

Im not trying to prove anything. I just think it is a good idea for a permit system in the state of PA, so that people cant just go buy a hot. thats all i was trying to say. this is not something i havent even started, but me and Brint and been talking about it for a while. And he is highly respeced in the world herpetology. I respect you guys and i have listened to alout of the great information i have received from you guys. I know what it is like to almost die from a snake bite.I just dont want it to happen to others.
Click to expand...

So you haven't really done any concrete research - yet you are proclaiming the need for legislation in Pennsylvania?

Let's assume that your figures for envenomations in captivity are correct at 2. The U.S. Census bureau reports the population of Pennsylvania at 12,406,292 as of 2004. That would mean (according to your figures) that .00000161 % of the population of Pennsylvania were envenomated by a venomous reptile over the past 5 years.

So Vinny based upon the numbers, you should also champion legislation banning the following activities:

Odds of injury from fireworks: 19,556 to 1

Odds of injury from shaving: 6,585 to 1

Odds of injury from using a chain saw: 4,464 to 1

Odds of injury from mowing the lawn: 3,623 to 1

Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2,232 to 1

Odds of drowning in a bathtub: 685,000 to 1

Chance of dying from a car accident: 1 in 18,585 Better outlaw cars

Chance of dying from any kind of fall: 1 in 20,666 Ban stairs, ladders

Chance of dying from accidental drowning: 1 in 79,065 OMG - drain all lakes, pools and ponds
 
Well Harold that is a good question. if their not all N.A. crotalids than all other species should be properly named commen and latan. As far as antivenin goes wow, well that would be fairly hard to give him/her the proper AV for a exotixc species, if the person is not able to identify the snake. So my best guess would to have an envenomation packet for every species of hot they own. And grab it when they get nailed. We dont have a venom one here, so the person would have to hope that their local zoo carried that AV for the species, if they could even identify it.
 
In your conception of this permit system, is a keeper required to provide a head count, or just a species list? Is there a fee? What is it based on (is it a one time payment, annual or other recurring payment; is it a flat rate, per species, per animal)? Will there be inspections? If so, who is responsible for performing them. Where will the salary for these people come from (uhoh, the permit fee just went up, lol). Will there be restrictions on the species that can be kept? Educational/experience requirements? Where will prospective candidates turn for there education/experience? Does it have to be from an approved source? The list goes on, but that should give you a good starting point
 
shavemycoinpurse said:
So you haven't really done any concrete research - yet you are proclaiming the need for legislation in Pennsylvania?

Let's assume that your figures for envenomations in captivity are correct at 2. The U.S. Census bureau reports the population of Pennsylvania at 12,406,292 as of 2004. That would mean (according to your figures) that .00000161 % of the population of Pennsylvania were envenomated by a venomous reptile over the past 5 years.

So Vinny based upon the numbers, you should also champion legislation banning the following activities:

Odds of injury from fireworks: 19,556 to 1

Odds of injury from shaving: 6,585 to 1

Odds of injury from using a chain saw: 4,464 to 1

Odds of injury from mowing the lawn: 3,623 to 1

Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2,232 to 1

Odds of drowning in a bathtub: 685,000 to 1

Chance of dying from a car accident: 1 in 18,585 Better outlaw cars

Chance of dying from any kind of fall: 1 in 20,666 Ban stairs, ladders

Chance of dying from accidental drowning: 1 in 79,065 OMG - drain all lakes, pools and ponds
Click to expand...


you are 1005 correct. i just want a permit system for keepers, just so people cant go just buy a hot to be cool. thats it. and i would like to talk to you and harald in person at Hamburg
 
Vinny D said:
Well Harold that is a good question. if their not all N.A. crotalids than all other species should be properly named commen and latan.
Click to expand...
No, all species, even NA crotalids should be properly labeled with common and scientific names.
Vinny D said:
So my best guess would to have an envenomation packet for every species of hot they own.
Click to expand...
I'm unclear about YOUR definition of an envenomation packet...but I'll address it as if you mean a starting dose of antivenom. And just what private party could afford to maintain a store of antivenom for exotics (Crofab would be out of range for many people - given the per vial cost, the recommended starting dose, and the shelf life). Then, who is going to administer the antivenom? Most hospitals that aren't in "snakebite territory" haven't got a clue, and the antivenom can be deadly...especially when wielded by an inexperienced provider.
Vinny D said:
the person would have to hope that their local zoo carried that AV for the species, if they could even identify it.
Click to expand...
again, more often than not, that won't be the case. A lot of zoos don't even have venomous reptiles, so there would be no antivenom...and not everybody has a zoo within even a few hours drive.

keep trying
 
If, by envenomation packet, you meant envenomation plan...you're correct - every keeper should have one. But what do you propose for that plan? Would everybody be required to have one? would specific information be required? A standardized form, perhaps? who would approve it? who would be responsible for the accuracy of the information? (I see dollar signs again)
 
shavemycoinpurse said:
Odds of injury from using a chain saw: 4,464 to 1
Click to expand...

Been there once Myself.................

PICT0005.jpg
 
Who are you kidding?

That's a bite from one of your Boas dude! LOL

Looks painful but could have been worse.
 
Tim Cole said:
Looks painful but could have been worse.
Click to expand...
LOL actually, it didn't hurt till the next day. And it almost was worse. I nicked the tendon that holds the patella in place, and the muscle next to it.

UGHH!! Chainsaw sharp!
 
Vinny D said:
Well im sorry for trying to make the keepers of venomous reptiles a little safer. by having all venomous reptiles on record.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear: you're NOT making the lives of RESPONSIBLE venomous keepers safer. You're trying to put up some obstacles which will stop Joe Sixpack and his cousin Ronnie Mullet from doing a "y'all watch this!" and removing themselves from the gene pool.

Responsible hot keepers, like responsible keepers of large constrictors or crocodilians, are already taking (well-established, tried and proven) steps to protect themselves and others from their animals. You aren't doing them any favors by presenting yourself as the poster child for Stupid Venomous Reptile Tricks.
 
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