Glendon McDonald Poor Ethics?

[Mr.Tegu]

Seamus is gay! If you think it is a defect cause maybe it wouldnt survive in the wild. Then why not bag on the people breeding albinos that could be a defect in the wild you stupid fag!

 

[Ken Harbart]

Seamus is gay! If you think it is a defect cause maybe it wouldnt survive in the wild. Then why not bag on the people breeding albinos that could be a defect in the wild you stupid fag!

Here's the deal...
There's not much for rules here in HELL, but I will be strict about the full name requirement. As important as it is on the BOI, it is even moreso here.

If you don't have the balls to attach your full name to your posts, then don't post at all.

 

[Lucille]

Besides that, Tegu, there was some talk of moving this thread back to the BOI if we were all good. This thread is about a blind scrub python and whether it should be bred or sold. An individual's sexual orientation has nothing to add or clarify to that subject.

 

[Mr.Tegu]

lol Sorry Lucille, and Ken my name is TRACEY JAMES FRISBY!

 

[Seamus Haley]

Seamus is gay!

That's the first I've heard of this... Kinda wish I had known earlier and not wasted all those years looking for relationships with women.

Does anyone with a brain actually find that kind of thing insulting? I mean... either it's not true and simply a lie or it is true in which case it's not really an insult, is it? It's like trying to verbally injure someone by screaming "You're very tall!" it's either inaccurate or just not hurtful at all.

If you don't have the balls to attach your full name to your posts, then don't post at all.

Heh. Yeah... 'cause I'm a really scary guy and someone would have to hide after trying something like that.

Besides that, Tegu, there was some talk of moving this thread back to the BOI if we were all good.

While it's only bringing the thread further off topic by continually discussing this... Rich, THIS is why the Hell forum is not a very good idea on this site. Here we have a thread which had a legitimate place on the BOI, it was a direct discussion of a named individual and their business practices, it had all the required information, there were copies placed on the thread so the text couldn't be lost due to a broken link, there were facts posted, there were opinions posted, both were clear and distinct. While clearly there are a few posts made by people on both sides of the issue which crossed lines, the bulk of the thread up until the last five-six pages was good information which has a great deal of value to individuals who might be doing a search for this particular seller. The seller and his mouthpiece, if you buy the explaination for identical IPs, act in a classic fashion, doing more damage to their reputation than any of the people in the opposite camp through their own conduct and rather than allowing it to remain as further evidence, as you had so often in the past, the whole thread gets moved onto the forum which you have specifically designated for trash posts?

What happened to the whole "Give 'em enough rope to either climb out of the hole or hang themselves as they see fit" mentality?

Are bad guys now going to be granted the ability to remove their negative threads from the BOI simply by conducting themselves poorly? Lot of use the whole concept is then... "Hey, here's a site where everyone has to take responsibility for their own statements where the general public can find information about others they might be considering a business transaction with. It's an amazing tool, except now people can essentially hide any posts they don't want people to see and all they have to do is swear a bit and write posts from two different logins and maybe threaten or harass a moderator." I frankly don't see how that does ANYBODY any damn good at all and find it very out of character for you to make a decision of this nature.

If you want to make the BOI totally useless then by all means start moderating every thread in this fashion, just be sure to let everyone know so that there's a fair chance to sabotage all threads equally. Somebody's bound to disagree with just about every bad guy thread ever written, might as well just rename the BOI to save you the effort of shifting each one individually.

 

[Mr.Tegu]

Ok jeez I am sorry I was simply stating that I obvisously don't like you. I have no idea about what your sexual preference is, nor do I care, as long as it isn't me lol. I will be good so as that this may go to the boi.

 

[Lucille]

ENOUGH!
Seamus, Tegu, and everyone else: We have come to an uneasy and delicate truce; several of us have said we will be good: If the party who is selling the scrub is not good, perhaps this could be moved back to the BOI and on the promise of everyone else's good behavior, he can use all the rope he wants to hang himself.
**Please**
Moderators: please, will you consider our respectful request to move this post back, if we all behave ourselves on this thread?

 

[Rachel H.]

I went into work today, and was told by Glenn about this thread. I was told that he came on here and asked a harmless question. What would happen if he bred it? He was just enquiring, right? But, if he's not gonna breed it, why kill it? I've seen this animal with my own eyes, he's incredible, beautiful. You consider this a genetic defect, correct? . You look at a piebald and gasp, lose your breathe maybe? "It's incredible, the next step, just think what we can do next breeding?" So, albinoism, and striped, and leucistic, and marbled, and piebalds, and all the other beautiful morphs, and genetically "deformed" animals should be shoved in a HUGE freezer correct? Why not? It could spoil the gene pool, right.
That's a load of bull. It's just another step in evolution. Maybe it's a screw up, maybe it's not. For all you know, Humans were a big genetic disaster. Snakes with no eyes. Maybe that's the next step, maybe that's the next best thing, possibly. You don't know that this animal is suffering in any way. By what I've been told about the feeding habits of this specimen, he doesn't take a shot and miss, slamming his head into the glass, or grabbing your hand instead. He strikes, and hits the prey, every single time, no flaw. So possibly, you haven't thought of the idea, that this may be the next step in the evolutionary ladder. Maybe he shouldn't breed it, maybe it's a flaw that should be stopped immediately, and strained out completely. But nobody knows for certain.

 

[Lucille]

Those of you in Hell, I ask that further posts PLEASE be kept good and proper, and that the truce continue, until the moderators have had a chance to consider my plea.
Thank you
Lucille

 

[Wilomn]

Ok, here we go again.

A color MORPH is NOT a physical DEFORMATION.

The two are NOT the same thing.

A Piebald no eyed snake SHOULD NOT be bred just as this scrub should not.

A piebald snake the is not DEFORMED has no reason NOT to be bred.

Do you see the difference here?

One is a PHYSICAL deformity, the other is a color variation.

Should we outlaw all red sports cars because they are involved in more accidents? No, there is NO difference between the red sports car and the blue or green or piebald one.

The one made WITHOUT headlights, now that's another matte enitrely.

See what I'm getting at?

 

[Rachel H.]

I see what you're saying. I agree. I made a mistake by comparing the two. Let me try to state this differently. What I meant to say, was that because it's different, does it make it wrong? And you have a point there, two different things, pattern morphs, and then physical "deformities." Either way, my view on it, is that it shouldn't be bred, but I don't think there is any reason to freeze it. And possibly, it's the next step in evolution. That's all. I wrongly stated what I was trying to say.

 

[Stardust]

I would hope that evolution doesn't involve in losing one of the senses.

I am not sure this belongs on the BOI but I certainly do not think it belongs in Hell. This could be a good healthy discussion, Hell would only diminish its importance.

 

[Rachel H.]

Now, how do you know for a fact that the loss of eyes in this animal isn't just an evolutionary "experiment". And that doesn't make it a good thing. But it doesn't make it a bad thing either. Nobody on this forum can say for sure whether or not that animal can function better with or without eyes. Nobody here has been in the view point of a snake. Nobody knows for certain whether this animal is suffering due to the loss of sight, or ability to see his prey. Nobody really even knows exactly how all that works. We may never know. So how can you say that the loss of the eyes, is definetly a bad thing? They find their prey in other ways correct? This animal still functions perfectly fine. He is in a controlled environment and basically has his food handed to him, yes. But you can't say for sure whether this animal would survive in the wild or not. For all anybody knows, this animal may thrive in the wild, if lucky. But that doesn't say that this is a good change, or a good step forward. Just an evolutionary "game" if you will.

 

[Wilomn]

I agree with you on the not putting it down thing Rachel. However there is one important thing that needs to be guarenteed before I could be comfortable with either of these two guys keeping it.

They do not seem trust worthy. They do seem driven by the ALMIGHTY dollar. They don't CARE what anyone else thinks.

If this snake was not sterilized I would not trust these two to NOT breed it eventually.

Then, while it is unlikely, it may become a problem for the genepool of scrubs in general.

Color and pattern morphs, have at it.

Physical deformities, well you've just got to cull some of the bad ones.

Look at golden retrievers. One sweet dog. Somewhere back there though the hip dispaysia was allowed in to the genepool.

It is a serious problem throughout the breed now. There are test and certifications and guarentees now because someone couldn't cull or wouldn't cull a great dog.

Now everyone who loves that breed suffers for it.

By the way, welcome to Hell.

 

[Wilomn]

But you can't say for sure whether this animal would survive in the wild or not. For all anybody knows, this animal may thrive in the wild, if lucky.

Luck would be the key word there. His INABILITY to hide would be something of a drawback in his struggle to hide in the wild.

The first time he felt all safe and secure, all nicely hidden away in the primary fork of a tree branch or on the end of a leafless branch or on the ground draped over a dead branch, would most likely be his LAST time.

Lack of eyes is not a good thing. I don't know if this snake is primarily diurnal or nocturnal or just doesn't care, but unless it is totally nocturnal it has evolved to use and need it's eyes.

Plain and simple.

 

[Rachel H.]

I don't know that they wouldn't breed it, I'd hope that they'd have better sense than that.

I understand what you're saying, and I do not agree that it should be bred out, it would cause problems down the line that could possibly be irreversible. I don't think this man is driven by money. I think he was just trying to irritate you all, because he was getting harrassed so much. I've known him for a good year, and he's got a good head on his shoulders. I'm trying to convince him to give it up to a research facility of some sort, and let them screw with it. He seems willing. We would have kept it as a display animal, if we had the resources at the current moment, but we didn't.

I had a Golden for twelve years. I was lucky, he didn't get hip dysplasia. So not all have been tainted, and maybe it'd be the same way with the Scrubs, if this were to get tossed out there. If it is a genetic "defect" it is already out there. And hopefully it won't put back out, again. But not all Goldens get hip dysplasia, so maybe not all Scrubs would become eyeless. But I see what you're saying. The trait would be there, and the threat would stand.
Thanks for welcoming me.

 

[Rachel H.]

Luck would be the key word there. His INABILITY to hide would be something of a drawback in his struggle to hide in the wild.

The first time he felt all safe and secure, all nicely hidden away in the primary fork of a tree branch or on the end of a leafless branch or on the ground draped over a dead branch, would most likely be his LAST time.

Lack of eyes is not a good thing. I don't know if this snake is primarily diurnal or nocturnal or just doesn't care, but unless it is totally nocturnal it has evolved to use and need it's eyes.

Plain and simple.

You have a point there, one that I never really thought of. In captivity though, he wouldn't have to worry about hiding. Once again, I'm not encouraging the breeding of this animal. But in captivity, maybe something has triggered that? The loss of eyes.
Maybe since there is no real threat, and they can find their food easily, because it is basically handed to them, maybe the eyes have become less needed?

 

[Wilomn]

Wasn't this snake out of the wild? I'm not going to go back through all twenty whatever pages to see but I think that's what we were intially told.

It is possible that this is merely an incubation aberrancy. It's possible.

One last question though. Would you but a golden now, knowing what you do about thier hips, that was not from a genitically pure line? One that would guarentee that neither parent had it and that no known offspring from those parents had it? Would you have the test done on your pup to make sure it did not have it?

Or would you just trust to fate that all would be well?

Are you the fiance' who was spoken of earlier? Is you soon to be husband the brother of the girl who is blind and has the intelligence of a 3 year old? If so, when you get pregnant, will you blindly trust that all is well or will you get that amniocentisis?

Ok, more than one question, but good ones none the less.

 

[Rachel H.]

I am nobody's fiance. I work at the shop where this animal was purchased.

As far as I know this snake wasn't wild caught. I know the original owners, and I'm pretty sure it was captive bred, but I wouldn't swear to it. It is possible that it was just an incubation fluke. Very possible. Now, my question is, if it was wild caught, and it was obtained at say . . ohh. Three feet? Then how exactly, would it have survived that period of time, before capture? . . . . Luck?

And yes I would buy a Golden, and just hope that it didn't happen. I wouldn't get a test done, I probably couldn't afford the test. I never said I encourage the breeding, and I never said that I think it's okay. I never said that it's okay if it doesn't occur in all animals. I simply said it may not occur, and some would be spared. As I said earlier "The trait would be present, and the threat would stand."
Yes, good questions. Any more?

 

[Wilomn]

Not at the moment but thanks for answering.

Perhaps there will be more tomorrow though.