Glendon McDonald Poor Ethics?

[Bringerofdoom]

wow and to think, you cant even detect sarcasm.

lets stick to this thread instead of you dragging all this bs into this thread.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

wow and to think, you cant even detect sarcasm.

lets stick to this thread instead of you dragging all this bs into this thread.

The best BS Ive seen on this board lately was telling someone to soak a prolapse in salt water, not that you know what that means!

Your sarcasm is weak at best but it that sounds nice, lets please try and I mean really try to keep topics on topic, not that you can or will but please try!

 

[Bringerofdoom]

there you go again wendy going totally off topic to try to pick another fight. not that your post was on topic to begin with, but yet another attempt to smear dan to clear your name.

if you wanted to post about people with deformed animals, i have seen worse for sale on reptibid and others. no you chose the post what dan said.

like i said dan for the 3rd degree for the thought of breeding it. he decided not to, from what he says.

heck that sickly dragon, you sold him you knew he planned on using to breed. yet you think it was worthy to be bred, anyone else see's it as heresy to let that dragon breed. not you though, so lets not get into all that again.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

there you go again wendy going totally off topic to try to pick another fight. not that your post was on topic to begin with, but yet another attempt to smear dan to clear your name.

if you wanted to post about people with deformed animals, i have seen worse for sale on reptibid and others. no you chose the post what dan said.

like i said dan for the 3rd degree for the thought of breeding it. he decided not to, from what he says.

heck that sickly dragon, you sold him you knew he planned on using to breed. yet you think it was worthy to be bred, anyone else see's it as heresy to let that dragon breed. not you though, so lets not get into all that again.

You are SOOOO confused, I never suggested that the dragon I sent his was a breeder dragon which I am sure he can confirm, he wanted a breeder and I did not have one for the trade price of the leo he offered in trade

He was told BEFORE the trade that the dragon needed to gain weight and given the weight and stats on the dragon

I never SOLD him anything! And NEVER SOLD or Traded him any breeder dragons!!!!

 

[Bringerofdoom]

You are SOOOO confused, I never suggested that the dragon I sent his was a breeder dragon which I am sure he can confirm, he wanted a breeder and I did not have one for the trade price of the leo he offered in trade

He was told BEFORE the trade that the dragon needed to gain weight and given the weight and stats on the dragon

I never SOLD him anything! And NEVER SOLD or Traded him any breeder dragons!!!!

you also just admitted that he was looking for a breeder, did u honestly think what he got he intended on it being a pet?????

So you admit FINALLY that the male I sent 14" with tail nip at 140-150 grams was HUGE fir his age since your 17" male was 16 months

shure sounded like you were trying to suggest it there...

maybe im confused, cause you do so much back peddling on your statements.

i am done commenting on this, before you send another thread into lockdown.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

you also just admitted that he was looking for a breeder, did u honestly think what he got he intended on it being a pet?????



shure sounded like you were trying to suggest it there...

maybe im confused, cause you do so much back peddling on your statements.

i am done commenting on this, before you send another thread into lockdown.

He traded for the orange male that needed to gain weight in trade for a leo he had

I gave him a list before the trade of what I had to offer:
1.1 Sandfire Golds Proven
0.1 Hypo Proven
1.0 Orange Male that needed to gain weight

He chose the 1.0 orange, since his leo was not of value for the breeders, then after he received the orange male and was unhappy he then wanted the female hypo

If you want to see the emails from me to him and him to me please email me and I will give you my AOL password to view my old mail

 

[Bringerofdoom]

ok, not only illeterate, but also color blind.

you call this orange?????? looks brown or rusty red to me. definatly not orange thats for shure.

he needed to gain weight, cause he was sick!!!. you are the only person on the planet that cannot tell this. YET you still sold him knowing he was underweught, which only a month later you acknowledge it was under weight.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

ok, not only illeterate, but also color blind.

you call this orange?????? looks brown or rusty red to me. definatly not orange thats for shure.

he needed to gain weight, cause he was sick!!!. you are the only person on the planet that cannot tell this. YET you still sold him knowing he was underweught, which only a month later you acknowledge it was under weight.

How stupid are you!!!

I toild him he needed toi gain weight, told him he was young and his orange had just began to come in on his lgs and told him he had never beed to a vet

Are you an idiot that cannot read the specs from one post to the next?

OMG

He knew upfront that the dragon was young, and his orange was just beginning to come in on his legs and face

That he needed to gaine weight

That he was 14" and 146.5 grams, excuse me, I told him almopst 150 grams

That he had never been to the vet but he ate well on mealworms, veges, squash and pellets but did not like crickets and drank lots of water

You really surprised me Doom and people don't do that with me often, I thought I had you pegged, I thought you were one of those that had every detail on a pens edge for future reference

 

[Bringerofdoom]

wendy, im not stupid at all. you MUST thinking i am though to be expecting me to be to eat that BS line of yours. ITS a bearded dragon, NOT a chameleon. its not magically going to change from red to orange, because thats how you listed it. if it had 1 drop of orange it would be showing it along time ago..

so you admit you fed him a diet of mealworms, which coincidentally have the worst cah level known to man. no wonder why it was undersized. you also dont mention a staple green you fed it, besides mentioning veggies. you also in your entire time have never mentioned dusting either......

maybe, just maybe the reason he didnt eat crickets and drank lots and lots of water was because of a parisite infection. that fails to stop you though from not realizing it.

also WHAT did you expect dan to take your wonderfull almost dead animal and foot the bill for the damage you did?????? it would cost more than a real breeders, breeder quality animal to fix the damage you did.

if you want to talk about dan and the dragon take it to your own threads and quit hijacking others.

 

[Bringerofdoom]

ok, to actaully post something relativly relating to this thread.

i dont agree, that just because its deformed it doesnt give it the right to live. a noeyed snake wierd as it may be, still has the ability to hunt and capture prey. they never needed the eyes to see their prey to begin with. hence the need for a forked tounge.

would anyone of you as a parent would want your children put down if they were born blind or mentally challenged? of course not. neither should this.

BUT with that being said.

i will disagree 100% that this should be worth breeding this "trait". to me its a deformity, only asking for more deformations. who knows, it could yeild perfect young, with eyes. it could also lead to more deformities or other undesirable effects (severe agression, severe skull deformities, etc). to me it aint worth the risk of attempting it. let alone to preach about how good this is and that we need more of them was plain asking for it.

anyone who agrees with that it should be bred, by all means consider breeding these human "traits".
http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/PEDHTML/PEDIDX.html
Warning: not for the faint of heart.

 

[Mister Internet]

Could you two please take your cat fight where it belongs?

 

[DThomas]

Wendy,

Stop dragging the deal between Dan and you into other threads. That includes posting about any problems you have with Mike as they are related to that thread.

Mike,

I suggest you stop replying to her in these off topic posts as all she is doing is trolling.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Anyone who wishes to discus Wendy and her poor ethics is welcome to visit the following thread in HELL.

Click Here

Otherwise lets allow these people to keep their threads on track.

 

[Joker]

Seamus Haley, Hurley(I believe), and Msurinamis

I believe that I have commented on this issue dealing with a boa on another site. I DO believe that animals like this DESERVE a nice LOVING and CARING home. NO BREEDING. It is already alive and breathing but extorting this trait is wrong in my opinion. I stated that because I know there are those who would disagree. If it is feeding and maintaining itself like normal it deserves a good life. If not culled would be the option. I dont want to see more mutations like this it is almost sick but already there and some one willing to take on the responsibility should be able to care for it. Still breeding it is a no no in my mind. I just thought I would share my .02 cents.
Joker

 

[verrykerry]

Eyeless Redtails too... (more)

I've seen an ad somewhere on of the 3 big herp sites from someone named Jeremy, running a little business out of Garland Texas named JV Reptiles selling an eyeless Redtail. His ad says it hatched out that way, no eyes, no openings for eyes, etc.
He also says that you have to force feed it and that he wants $75.00 for it.

Hmmmmmmmm....

Kerry Tribble-Texas

 

[Alias47]

Here is the thread to the eyeless boa on Kingsnake.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=8&de=270600

I am still in the middle of the same debate on another forum regarding the boa.

I didn't have time this WEEK to read a 63 page thread...so I don't know what all your views are...or what has already been said.

Here is how I feel about the situation.

Breeding subpar animals is a load of crap.
Intentionally breeding physical birth defects is wrong.
(Although, in reality, that is what the morphs we all cherish are)

This boa was not eating...only force fed twice.
If it was eating I would have bought it for twice what he was asking...for multiple reasons.

Yes...it is human nature to be drawn to the freakish and grotesque (Carnival Freak Shows, Faces of Death, Jim Rose Side Show, etc. etc.) and I was definitely captivated by this animal.
It would make a great addition to my own personal menagerie. If it was eating on it's own...I'm NOT in the habit of paying $75 plus shipping for a dead boa.
I was shopping for one anyway...and have no plans to breed boas in the future.

HOWEVER...by purchasing this animal MYSELF...It would be GUARANTEED to never breed. I can make that assertion...and anyone who knows me can tell you...I am a man of my word.
This animal is not fit for breeding...and I am not into reptiles for money. It WAS an interesting specimen...and very unique.
If I had a bicephalic corn snake...you bet I would keep it...and it would never breed (although the San Diego Zoo had one that laid 15 eggs and they all hatched with NO DEFECTS).

Thing is...by the time JV Reptiles got back to me...it had already been sold.


This animal was going somewhere regardless...and it was going to be sold (I know people who offered to adopt it, but he was going to find SOMEONE to buy, just bound to happen)...now it has been sold.

To who? I don't know...
And neither do you.

Now in three years YOU may own the offspring from this animal...
Or I might.

All because everyone told this guy it was WRONG to sell it...instead of jumping in and buying the damn thing to keep out of breeding populations...

Some people argued that, by paying this guy, he is making money off of deformed animals and it will only perpetuate their sales.

The snake was $75 plus shipping...DEFINTIELY a fair price for a boa...

Worth every penny to know where it is and that it isn't being breed if you ask me.

Someone is going to buy it regardless...this way I could have kept it out of the hands of some unscrupulous breeder who WANTS to produce deformed animals.

You do know there is a huge market for 6 and 7 toed cats, don't you??

They can go for $500 with NO PAPERS.

People like weird stuff...and where there's a market, SOMEONE will supply it.

I had the chance to remove one of these deformed animals from the marketplace.

Too bad I was too late.

How do you feel about that?

 

[reptilebreeder]

Breeding subpar animals is a load of crap.
Intentionally breeding physical birth defects is wrong.
(Although, in reality, that is what the morphs we all cherish are)

Which morphs that everyone cherishes have physical birth defects? I know I don't cherish any morphs with physical birth defects.

 

[Alias47]

A morph is created by intentionally reproducing a DEFICIENT gene.
It produces an altered PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTIC in the coloring of the snake. Just like a genetic deformity.

In nature...the great majority of these snakes would be removed through natural selection, just like the ones with kinks...or no eyes.

How many candy cane corns have YOU found in the wild?
Or bright yellow and white albino ball pythons (or burms for that matter)?
By DEFINITION...it is the same thing...by ETHICAL STANDARDS they are worlds apart.

This snake was never stated to be UNHEALTHY...just eyeless.

If it is not going to be bred, what is the harm in keeping it?


Just because you perceive something to be one way does not make it so.

 

[reptilebreeder]

As far as the scrub, I agree. I voted for it to be not bred, but kept as a pet. My statement was in regard to you stating that the morphs that everyone loves have the same problem ie, physical defects. I disagree, "mere" color changing is not a physical defect. It is not the same as breeding animals with no eyes or debilitating kinks etc.,
Everyone always brings up the "have you found one" or "would it survive in the wild" First of all, there are albino, hypo, etc. strains of several species that are reproducing in the wild. There are examples of color "strains" striped kings etc., having said that it is irrelevant. These animals are no longer in the wild, they are in captivity. Some might try to make the same argument for a snake with no eyes, but I would disagree, animals with physical defects are not the same as color morphs.
I know it's probably apples to oranges, but saying that a color morph is a deficient gene and is the same as a physical birth defect, is like saying about a human that having blue eyes or different colored skin is the same as being born without legs.
JMHO

 

[Alias47]

It's really a matter of semantics...

I do not agree that a snake with no eyes is the same as snow corn. And I am DEFINITELY NOT advocating breeding animals WITH deformities...I am merely showing that they ARE indeed SIMILAR in genetic function (albeit COMPLETELY different in morality and ethics). I never stated that their similarities went anywhere BEYOND the way they were created.

I positioned it this way for all the people that were begging the seller to kill it. Which is never going to happen. Especially if he is breeding these type of animals specifically to make money. If they feel so strongly, they should fork over their cash and kill it themselves...

I was at least willing to fork over my cash to keep one from being in the gene pool...of course I would have kept it...and shown it...but NEVER bred it.


IMHO...I think an eyeless snake would have a MUCH better chance of survival in the wild than a bright orange and white one in an area where all the others are brown and tan...or dark red.