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Has anyone delt with Dan Parma/ Snakes Den???

Adam,
While you are calling on Dan to be a man could you do me a favor and call on Sal to be a man? Why is he avoiding responding to me? I'll tell you because he knows what he promised me over and over again. Now for a bit of relevance and believe me I would rather not add this piece but because it might be usefull or not. When I talked to Sal at the beginning of our fiasco a few months ago I told him I was also interested in Bearded dragons. At that time he said he had sent some to a friend (who he did not name) and that they were going to split the babies so he would be having some when the babies arrived. I don't know if he was referring to Dan or not. I hate to help Sal out in anyway and maybe I didn't, I don't know but I had some information that might be relevant and I always try to do the right thing as much as I would rather not. Sal you do owe me money though.
Mark Westberg
 
WELL everybody is a secratery these days.

Isn't a Paralegal a secratery that quotes from law books???? Where is it written that a Paralegal is a private dick or just a Richard. Anyway to answer another question that was asked(not directly)the beardies were sent to me and I was under the understanding that I was to breed them and return half of the offspring to Sal for him to do with as he seen fit. All of the beardies were sent in Poor shape(Sal was going through some Sh*T that I went through and it is rough)all had died within a month of arrival with the exception of one which never grew, I spoke with Sal on the phone the other day and was telling him all about them and the last one passed while I was on the phone with him. Sal will verify this I am sure, I offered PICS of all the dead dragons as they are still in my freezer til I get aound to taking them for incineration as I also still have the Tegus I am sure everyone on here remembers that ordeal. In my state I don't know about others but here it is illegal for me to dispose of the dead critters myself it must be done by the ASPCA or a vet.
 
Well I guess I didn't help you out Sal sorry. Naw I'm not really sorry. Thanks for clearing that up Tony.
Mark Westberg
 
No problem glad to put one subject to rest.

The following are e-mails sent to me by APRYLLA who for some reason disliked my post, and my reply Please read. Her e-mail address was removed to protect her privacy.


I was wondering why the accusations against Dan??? I have been dealing with Dan for over 2 years it started with a trade between him and I with a Gator and a Water Monitor and has been going ever since. He has never done wrong by me nor has he ever given me a reason to doubt him once. I just want to know what you have to contribute to this whole ordeal and I will stay out of it from now on. Just let me know so it doesn't seem to me that you are just trying to instigate trouble. I have been talking to Sal off and on for a little better than a year and have nothing to say about him that could be taken negativly so I don't care who wins loses or what ever happens I just hate the trouble and I am being brought into it by both sides so I will be in it until I have proof either way. I am remaining neutral and a friend no matter what so I am waiting because it seems this is either going to come to a head or just die with the lier along with it. All any off us have is the facts stated by both parties invovled and that is it so who is to say that them being the friends they are/were that Sal didn't know what Dan had/sold and just decided to get back at him for something and say all of this was his stuff. Dan produced reciepts for the stuff yet Sal typed it all in, where are his scanned copies or proof of shipping????? And you say Dan looks guilty TRY useing both eyes while you are looking. I am by no means sayin that Sal is a liar but lets see the reciepts this is getting alittle rediculous, at least the airbills lets see something that will stop this. The only 2 people that know what really happened were the 2 involved, the only way any of us are going to figure this out is if one or the other admits to being a liar. I personally never have seen that happen so why not drop it.


Oh by the way the e-mail you sent me (below) and my reply (above) will be posted as my next post on this thread.


Thank you
Bayou Beasts
Tony Barbush






Original Message:
-----------------
From: Aprylla ******
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:38:56 -0400
To: [email protected]



This is a message from Aprylla at FaunaClassifieds Forums ( http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/index.php ). The FaunaClassifieds Forums owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.

To email Aprylla, you can use this online form:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?action=mailform&userid=7735

OR, by email:
mailto:*********

This is the message:

Thanks Tony. You basically just screwed my whole plan to figure this thing out and bust the liar. I just posted a new message on there. I have to say at this point that Dan looks pretty guilty to me. Please read the post I just put up, it explains the e-mails I sent to both parties (Sal and Dan).

I think at this point that there is a good chance that Dan traded reptiles with me that may have been Sal's and were not Dan's to trade.

I wish you would have contacted ME directly before you made that post, or called me, I would have been MORE than happy to explain what I was doing trying to get info from both sides.

Aprylla



Thank you
Bayou Beasts
Tony Barbush
 
It's me!!

Hey Mark,

Please send me your number again and i WILL call you tomorrow!

As far as what i can say right now about this whole thing right now is that..... ''DAN'' ... PACK YOUR BAGS DUDE.... it's going to a LONG ride for you!!! Hope you brought the soap!!! Your going down BITCH. You screwed me and all of your ''so called friends'' are going for the same ride. This is a one way ticket for all of those who want to chip in!!

You people on here make me laugh who defend this guy, hope you have the same sence of humor when you are all together in the same "PEN" . Just to let EVERYONE know what "PEN" means since i '' ALWAYS'' have to spell it out to you is that's where the "PIGS" / "RATS" live.

Bye Bye DAN.... Your done!

Sal
Boca Reptiles
 
Just to let EVERYONE know what "PEN" means since i '' ALWAYS'' have to spell it out to you is that's where the "PIGS" / "RATS" live.
Click to expand...
So you're letting him move into your place after everything he's done? Man, you are a good friend.
 
You know...

Tony I am glad to now know what sort of person you are. Insulting ME when I am not the one who has done anything wrong! It seems as if you Tony are trying to make ME into the bad guy here when I am the one stuck in the middle not knowing if the snakes I received were stolen property or not. I think maybe you must still be angry at me for not doing a trade with you that you had wanted. Tony had wanted to trade me 17 leopard geckos for 2 really nice borneo blood pythons (which he was selling or trading to Dan Parma and had told me so). When I decided not to trade I guess he was angry even though he said there were "no hard feelings". I am glad to see that you, Tony, are so petty that you would use your first possible opportunity to try to make me look like a bad person.

And FYI, a Paralegal (a college degreed professional) can do everything EXCEPT try a case in court, they are not a "secretary" so please get your facts straight. And someone who has worked for a PI knows things to look for that a lot of other people do not.

My only concern in this was that I may have received stolen property here, that's pretty much it. If I did, I at least wanted to know so that I could set things straight. How exactly this crap gets turned on me seems pretty ridiculous.

I know that a lot of people on here are out for blood when it comes to Sal. It's just a shame that when I try to figure out what happened here that some people decide to turn on ME becuase of their hatred of Sal. Up until yesterday, as I said before, I had no contact with Sal whatsoever for well over a year or more. I never had been "friends" with him to start with. I had placed a couple order with him, received them, and that was it.

As far as I am concerned, I am OUT OF THIS. I have nothing further to say in a public forum to anyone involved (although I know now that Tony will see fit to publish every e-mail of mine he gets his hands on and further drag me into this). If this matter gets dragged into court I suppose I will be too, which is fine, then a real judge can decide what the truth is and punish whoever deserves it.

TO ALL INVOLVED: Please do me the favor of leaving my name out of all future posts, whether you have anything good, bad or indifferent to say about this where I am involved. If I say nothing more publically I am hoping that my part in this issue will just die until it is further needed, if ever, in a court of law. I do agree with ONE thing Tony said, only these 2 guys involved know the whole truth, and until one of them is totally busted or makes a confession all that this thread is going to do is further turn people on one another and be a total waste of everyone's time and efforts (including mine).

Aprylla Hall
 
aprylla, I've got a question or two for you.

If you are in a deal with someone and do recieve goods that are indeed stolen but you were TOTALLY UNAWARE of these goods as being stolen, would you be legally responsible for the manner in which these goods were obtained BEFORE you obtained them?

I'm pretty sure that other than having them confiscated, if even that happened, you would not be, in any legal way, responsible for the way they were attained prior to your obtaining them. Is this so?

Perhaps because they crossed state lines or maybe where you live the laws on recieving stolen property are more stringent. As a paralegal you should be in a position to enlighten me.

I must also say that I disagree with your methods. A lie is a lie and once you tell one, no matter your motive, it makes it much more difficult for some of us to believe you. This is one of the main reasons that lawyer/liars are held in such high regard by so many. Yes, that was sarcastic.

If dan stole and sold animals from sal that is wrong. Karma in action most definately but, still wrong.

sal is a firstclass scammer/liar/cheat and pretty much DOES deserve whatever happens to him. However, if dan did steal from sal and lie to him about these "breeding loans/deals" then he is no better than sal. Birds of a feather is a saying quite often used when referring to sal and his business partners. It seems he has NEVER had an honest one.

If you are so concerned about recieving stolen property you should contact your local law enforcement agency and see what they say about the status of your animals. If they are legally yours then all is well. If they are not, send them to sal and sue dan.

Now you have to make the decision about what is right and wrong.

Wes Pollock
 
1 GRAVID AMAZON ----------------------------------------------------------------$125

7 COLORED BABY AMAZON FROM GRAVID AMAZON--@75----$525
Click to expand...

So Sal.... you purchased a Gravid Amazon from someone. Later it had babies. You then sent the seller money for the babies too? It's just a tiny question. Those are YOUR WORDS in the quote above, from the first page of this thread. I just wanted clarification. Heck, I have a few gravid snakes, I could sell you them for $125 each, but you have to pay me $25 for each egg they lay. :) Not amazons, so they aren't worth $75.

I have no opinion on the deal with Dan, just your own "proof" if that is what you want to call it, is quite questionable, and Dan's proof is well within reason. While Dan isn't acting totally professionally, IMHO, you are acting like the rear of a large equine. When you come on here and ignore the posts of those whom you have STILL to recompense, and cackle like a harpy from a bad monster movie over imagined idiocy, it doesn't help to bolster your case.

I do believe that all bad guys should get what they deserve. Seems to me there is no honor among theives in the herp world. The bad guys just look out for the worst guys and rip them off. Again, not sure that is the case here, haven't seen any proof of someone being ripped off.

Now Sal, aside from all my editorializing.... will you please answer my simple question
 
Again nothing to hide from anyone!!!

I am not a Paralegal or anything and it was along time ago(20+ years) but I was arrested charged and sentenced for accepting stolen property. It went something like this, A guy sold me some goods that he bought from someone else and they were stolen(the goods) I had no knowledge of how they were obtained or anything and the seller and beleive it or not the theif testified that I had not known about anything yet I still was charged and convicted. When it comes to Sal I only know what I was told and yes that makes me as guilty as anybody else involved but like I said everyone involved: myself Aprylla and whoever has the animals now(if Dan is not being honest and I am not saying it just an observation) all would be guilty of accepting stolen property. I personally think that is wrong but that is it as written in the books. I think this whole thing is crazy to be honest I am upset about the trade LMAO I really could care less about you or any of your animals. The trade was something you and I were discussing and we BOTH decided that it was not going to happen REMEMBER things correctly or not at all. Maybe YOU ARE PISSED BECAUSE I GOT TO GO TO MCDONALDS AND YOU DIDN"T???? Feel free to look at my collection and tell me what I would want with part of yours? anyway like I said before the only people that know what truely happened are the 2 involved and until 1 of them wants to share we will never know. So now that Someone(shhh don't want to mention her name because Aprylla seems alittle upset right now OOPS!!) who will solve "THECASE OF THE WACKY MONKEYS" (isn't that what monkeys do?? Throw sh*t around until some sticks).

APRYLLA DOOO WHERE ARE YOU!!!!!!!


Thank you
Bayou Beasts
Tony Barbush
 
tony, it's not always the case that someone recieving stolen property is arrested for stealing it. Without more facts on why you were arrested and convicted I have no comment on your particular case. Well, maybe a little comment or two. If you were convicted of recieving stolen property and the theif of that property said you had no idea of its stolen status then there must have been some OTHER reason you were charged and convicted.

Do you or did you then have a history or were you suspected of having recieved stolen property before? Had you been caught stealing? There are many options and possibilities as to why you were arrested and convicted, none of which have any bearing on this matter.

Aprylla has stated that she is working as a paralegal for some sort of federal office. She must be fairly squeeky clean to work for the feds at such a low level position. I think it's several steps up that corruption is mandatory in the federal services.

So, if she's so clean, there is very little possibility of her being charged much less arrested and convicted of reiceving stolen property, especially since there is no doubt she would have FULLY co-operated in any investigation there was.

I one time purchased a snake from a guy who walked into my store. Several days later some other buttwad came in and said that the snake was his and had been stolen from him. The cops came and confiscated the snake but did NOTHING at all to me.

It was at that point that I instituted the policy of only buying from people that had valid ID. No ID, no sale, no matter how tempting.

Now back to Aprylla and salito and dan....... dan says he has invoices and has yet to post them. Go figure, a partner of sal's saying on thing and doing another, never have seen THAT before have we. salito himself says there are NO invoices which DIRECTLY controverts what his partner says. Wow, we've never seen that either, have we? Then there's Aprylla, not knowing which, if either, of them is telling the truth.

Check it out with your local law enforcement agency and see what some detective has to say. You must know one you could question off the record from your work.

dan, post the invoices if you've got them. sal, crawl back under the rock you came out of, you have all the credibility of an-al and his ponypal kunnard, which is something REAL close to ZERO. If, and that's an awfully big if for you salito, you can prove you sent the reptiles to dan that he sold then I'm all for you, yes even you, getting what you deserve for them. But, if you can't, well you're a nervy and somewhat stupid S.O.B. for even coming here and trying.

My guess is both dan and sal are lying. Anyone in this business for more than three weeks HAS to have heard of sal and his wonerful business record. Names like cutom death enclosures and upchuck exotics just aren't that common. Nor is someone who has lied so often to so many about so much. If anyone CHOOSES to become his partner they must either be crooks themselves or planning on ripping him off. I don't see an honest man taking on the burden of salito.

Wes Pollock
 
Once last thing...

Thanks to some of you for being objective and understanding what I was trying to find out (the truth).

It is correct that I am "low on the food chain" so far as federal court employees go, but still, any court proceeding against me, even if it was dropped, could end my career. My job is what pays my bills and puts food on my table and feeds my reptiles. I cannot afford to have anything happen that may cost me my job, I have spent too many years making the small career I have for myself to let any low-life ruin it for me with some allegedly stolen snakes. I would hope that anyone reading this could at least understand that.

Yes, I do have a very good friend in law enforcement, actually my cousin is employed with the GBI back in Georgia (Georgia Bureau of Investigations, Georgia's version of the FBI). I was afraid to approach him with this at first (we're not very close and he pretty much HATES reptiles, especially snakes), but after a lot of thought I called him this afternoon. I told him everything from beginning to end. I also called my former boss, a criminal defense lawyer in Atlanta. Both my cousin and my ex-boss told me that there really should be no recourse on me for this. I made a pre-emtive strike by contacting Sal and Dan and trying as best I knew how to get the truth and find out if the reptiles I had received were, in fact, stolen. As I understand it, about the worst that could happen to me right now is that I would get dragged into court to testify regarding the snakes I received. Sal could also ask me to compensate him for the 4 snakes that I received from Dan if it were proven that they were not Dan's to sell and that they did in fact belong to Sal. I had already told Sal that I would compensate him appropriately if the snakes I received were his, Sal turned me down flat and told me that I couldn't have known about all this and no compensation was necessary. I figured that if Sal were such a bad guy as what everyone has told me, he would have said "yes, please send me $___" or "yes, please get my snakes back to me" but Sal did not do that, instead he was understanding that I did not know that Dan and he were having this problem.

Both my cousin and my ex boss told me just to drop the whole thing and not do business with either party, which sounds like a fine idea to me.

I want to publically apologize to Tony, whom I thought was still angry about a trade that didn't happen. If I said anything to Tony that was said in anger or frustration, I apologize.

I don't know who's right here, but I do know one thing, this no longer involves me unless I am subpoenaed to a court at some point....

You guys sort this out yourself, I am outta here...

Aprylla Hall
 
sal (ripoff artist)

hey wes check page 10 i did post the reciepts for the animals in question by aprylla
 
Wes....

This happened as I said over 20 years ago. Like I said when I went to court I found out that I was the third person to end up with the goods(a radio) and both of the parties involved testified that I was in noway involved with the taking of the product nor did I have any knowledge that it was stolen. Now I was then and still under the impression that they used me as an example. The radio belonged to a township commisoner. So again I think maybe it was to make a point.
 
dan, I thought you had reciepts from sal on the animals he sent you. My mistake. Who's shawn?

Wes Pollock
 
Sorry guys, it's been a really long day and I seem to have missed shawn's post previously. It's on page 12 of this thread.

Now I'll go re-read the whole darn thing and see if I can make any sense out of it.

Wes Pollock
 
Wes...

you have all the credibility of an-al and his ponypal kunnard, which is something REAL close to ZERO.
Click to expand...

I suggest you practice what you preach. If you are going to make unfounded accusations that are off topic, I suggest you be prepared to prove them! You have failed miserably in the Gubitz/Pollock thread of the "Hell" forum. Is that why you snuck that jab in here? Post that garbage where it belongs or don't post it at all!
 
Also Wes...

This is the BOI. You continue to defy the rules here. Don't push your luck. Call me what you want in Hell. Here my name is Kennard, not Kunnard. Get it right.
 
That actually was a mistake which I did rightfully recieve points for. It's been soooooo long since I referred to you as anything other than kunnard or one of its many morphs that I simply didn't notice I had done it again. My appologies for doing so here and let's keep hell stuff where it belongs kennard.

Wes Pollock
 
I didn't want to get involved considering I have nothing to do with Sal or the Reptile business anymore...but since Dan basically told me to *!&%$ off.....

Besides Dan not paying for his website and hosting, he had the nerve to steal images from me, using them without permission. He has been reported for copyright infringment and that will be dealt with in due time.

But THIS is amusing...

You posted this receipt:
dan2.jpg

But I found this:
dan1.jpg

Not the same shipper, nor receiver, nor the same year even....but ok...maybe a typo on your part.

You posted THIS receipt:
dan5.jpg

And then this:
dan4.jpg

This time the date is just about right...but that's a package coming TO you dan.....not you shipping out...but ok, maybe a coincidence.

Then THIS receipt too:: this is a good one!!
dan7.jpg

And what did I find...
dan6.jpg

OH MY!! That's from someone TO YOUR PAL TONY!!!

Wierd huh dan? So maybe it would be fair to say that you forged those receipts and they don't exist? Yea...that's what I thought! And that beautiful orange/tangerine looking boa, that was MINE before I left sal, I was going to breed it, and I have TONS of pictures of it, that was my baby....I hope the pictures don't match.

Oh...one more thing, I called that number from the recipt you posted for the animals you "bought"....the number doesn't exist...it doesn't work....try it for yourself.

~~Alison Kowalek~~
 
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