Having trouble with Kingsnake.com Help Please!! Sorry, kind of long

[Adam Block]

Snakes are different because quality of the animal comes into play but I see your point. And now you see mine. People can charge what they want and if somebody buy something cheaper they will. If I'm letting people know how to get the items cheaper for free you know I'm going to come under fire. And I have, thanks God I don't mind as I knew this was going to happen from day one.

Adam Block

PS Neil I'm sorry I just looked at your ads, you're okay..

 

[Adam Block]

Sorry for the double post. Just to further point out how selective Jeff is look at these two posts:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=41083
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=22&de=8349

The first by Tracy Barker (I would have made the same post so nothing against her) I mentioned to Jeff last night in asking why he targeted all my ads when others where so much more obvious. It's still there because you won't sensor a Barker post, he get's too much money from them.

The second by the man who was least happy with my ads. DCL is above the law and doesn't have to follow TOS but I of course do. Jeff is selective in who he sensors based on money and money alone and now he's stole mine for doing the same things other big name people are doing. Even less in fact as I didn't even put up another ad in violation of TOS.

This is major BS,
Adam Block

PS I bet he'll get those posted deleted now! How wishy washy can you get!

 

[Skip Nelson]

I can understand what's wrong with Tracy's post, but what's wrong with the DCL post?

Skip Nelson

 

[Darin Chappell]

So . . .

What we've all learned here is that Adam Block can tick people off; Kingsnake.com is touchy about TOS violations and has a hair trigger; people are out there selling things at prices that are too high; other people are too lazy/ignorant to search for the better prices; and what else????

I mean, all of this is fairly well known, is it not? I really can't see what all the fuss is about when you try to look at the big picture.

________________


I will say this about Adam Block, however. He is a nice guy, with nice animals, and a sincere desire to be a good herper. I spoke to him once on the phone for an extended period of time (and I do mean EXTENDED, Adam!), and he struck me as being nothing but courteous throughout. Adam and I disagreed about some practices, and we still do. If you buy from Adam, you'll get nice animals or products from a concerned seller, but he is slower than molasses in January in shipping them to you! He is the first one to admit this too; so be forewarned, if you need it tomorrow, get it from someone else! However, I do not believe for one instant that he is malicious in anything he does.

Machiavellian perhaps, but not malicious --

 

[Adam Block]

Read the TOS, all the ???????? in the title. That's attention getting and we wouldn't want that.

Special characters in the text of the ad - We do not allow the use of special characters to make your ad stand out on the index page of the specific classified sections. This includes the use of !@#$%^&*()_+~?><,.-{}[]\|/ . Only letters or numbers are acceptable. Use of these characters to lengthen the subject of the ad is also prohibited.

Here's part of Jeff's first email to me:

[I am asking the abuse coordinator to monitor your advertisements
daily to ensure that all your future ads comply with our terms.
If they don't your account(s) will be terminated. I strongly suggest
that you re-read the classified Terms of Service very carefuly.
/QUOTE]

I read the TOS and didn't post another ad yet my account was still terminated. WARNING!! This could happen to any of you just because Jeff doesn't like or agree with what you're saying or you offend him. I haven't gotten a refund yet so your money could be wasted on a canceled kingsnake account just like mine was! That is very poor business to only deal with people you like and up to this point steal the people you don't likes money.

Good luck to all of you with kingsnake.com accounts,
Adam Block

 

[jbuncc]

not that i agree with anything posted here or disagree with it (it doesn't matter for this post), but...
jeff has the right to run his business how he see's fit. to me, the current situation mirrors what private business owners and restaurants have posted in their establishments...
"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"
so, jeff didn't like what you were saying about him, so he cancelled your account and will refund your classified money, sounds legit to me. if you were bad mouthing me in my place of business (assuming i had one), i'd kick you out and ban you too. and it wouldn't matter if i was the most selective rule enforcer EVER, it would be MY choice because it was MY business.

as far as the DCL and virosan (which i PM'd you about), i don't want a gallon of virosan concentrate sitting around waiting to be used over the course of the next 40,000 years and i also found DCL's prices to be a little higher than the other guys you linked to, but!!! but! they don't offer the width i want without having to go through a special order form (on one, not both). so, to save $7 (estimated), it's not worth my time to go through the process of special ordering the stuff when i can just call charles on the phone and have my order shipped that day AND i'll be supporting another reptile enthusiast.

that's how i see it anyway.

jb

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

That is outragous

Your account was cancelled just because you posted about being unhappy with Kingsnake here? Thats ridiculous! Is there a higher authority than this "Jeff" person to appeal to on this? I don't really see what the big deal is with your offering better prices either......BUT I do see a problem if your saying others don't have the right to ASK any price they choose to, just like the consumer has the right NOT to pay the asking price and look for a better one.

 

[dwedeking]

"That is very poor business to only deal with people you like.."

Right to refuse service. One thing I've learned in business is that some clients/customers are not worth the profit on a product/service (not matter how large ) to deal with. I've had a couple of clients in my other business that I've asked to see service elsewhere because they were a pain to deal with ("mutually incompatible business philosophy" is how I worded the letter ). I agree 100% that your money should be refunded.

Your attitude Adam causes things like this to happen. I knew within 25 words of your first post I would be reading later how you got kicked off (I think you did to).

Alvaro, yes I can charge as much as I want for a product and if the buyer agrees (either ignorance, laziness, or whatever) then that's ok. I have a Nosy Be Panther that I take to shows as a display animal. I usually put a sign saying "Not For Sale - Display Only" but have been thinking a price tag of $1,000.00 would raise a stir Now, if someone came up and agreed to the $1,000.00 price tag, then I'm in the market for a new Nosy Be

 

[Seamus Haley]

Is there a higher authority than this "Jeff" person to appeal to on this?

Jeff is the... er... owner of KS, there really isn't much of a higher authority provided that what he's doing is legal (it is).

I personally don't like many of Jeff's more recent and seemingly more frequent actions but I can't deny that he did work hard to get where he is and I can't begin to understand the headaches he probably has to deal with.

Adam, while you have some valid points about certain dealers charging more for supplies than others, it's about as close to a free market economy as they can get and people will certainly pay for convenience or a name they trust. You also did violate Kingsnake's TOS agreement so you can't blame anyone but yourself for having your ability to post ads removed.

As to recceiving your refund, you did notice that it said it would be refunded in a manner identical to the one in which your initial payment was made. Just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it isn't coming OR that it's KS that's holding it up, it could be something that will show up as a deduction on your next credit card bill.

 

[Fred Albury]

Adam..................adam...........adam.....

Adam...........


Free market-They can charge whatever they want. NOTHING you can do or say will ever stop that, and injustice wise, though it seems unethical, in reality it comes down to a choice that the *uninformed* purchaser makes. I've SEEN tons of people at shows make the same sad choice. They come up to my booth with a wild caught Suriname that they bought for $235.00 that is rail thin, when they could have had a captive bred, healthy, baby argetnine from me, with feed and shed records and pics of the parents..for $110.00. I have come to the conclusion that sometimes people just like to get ripped off, or they buy from a certain person so that they can BRAG to everyone that they bought from so and so. Sometimes it is that they are uninformed also and dont do the homework to learn what stuff costs. BUT thats not the sellers fault, they are just trying to make money.

Bottem line..thats allthis busines is...a WAY to make *MONEY*, I have seen people LIE, cheat steal, backstab and demean other breeders, just sothat they could make money, or if they couldnt, just so that they could ruin the chances for SOMEONE else to do so.

Thats what sickens me about it. Its ugly. Truly. And the people in it are greedy, boastfull, bragarts that compete against each other for money, and acclaim. Im part of it(In a small way) so I guess I am no better than anybody else. thats why I am turning this back to what it used to be, a hobby and nothing more.


Kingsnake.com? WEll, Ive had my share of drama with them. The new title TOS is something that has to be followed, its THEIR business, not ours. Bottem line,Im not defending Jeff in any way, and my post isnt going to be like Neals, talking about how kingsnake is soo great. (Sorry Neal but its true) But I think that you are offbase about trying to control others from selling their goods at whatever price they want to. I get emails all the time of peole saying that my striped bci are too expensive, that I have no right to sellthe pair at that price.

Now....if it were ME..I would be asking the seller, "Can you give it to me at a little less, finances are tight?"

But instead I get *Complainers* whose only motive is whining that I dont have a right to chare that.But in reality I could charge ANYHTHING for it, even giveit away for free...and thats MY RIGHT.
Its also the customers right not to purchase it, which I respect.


Bottem line: This industry is messed up.
People make awfull mistakes.
Most people are f _ _ _ _ _ .

Instead of making it worse, work to make it better, or send this thing back to hobby status and get on with your life.

Fred Albury
AZTEC REPTILES

 

[Adam Block]

Just to make something clear! I love this Country and what it stands for. I make a lot of money on just the things I'm talking about. People don't need me in my other line of work but still I'm paid well to provide something that I'm not needed for only because they fail to look into the matter. I'm 100% in full support of people asking ANYTHING they want for a product.

On the same hand I don't worry or get upset about competition as that comes with the game. Cage Liners can be had from the same source DCLs uses in the same sizes for under $10 a roll. If you would rather support the herp business by paying 3 times that amount and not buying more reptiles, better cages, giving kids free reptiles to get them started or something else that's your business and not mine. I was only offering the information so you could choose where you spent your money.

If Jeff doesn't want to provide me service that's fine as well, I respect that. My issue is that he had no trouble taking my money first! Why would he take my money, decide he doesn't like me and then cancel my account. If a business doesn't want to deal with you that's fine, don't deal with the person and don't take their money. But if they choose to deal with you and then decide not to, a refund is in order. As of this point I haven't gotten a penny back and Jeff has kept my money to make a point. I'm not the first, without giving names this is just one of many messages I've gotten.

My posts were pulled twice within two days.
When I complained,I was told that I would receive a refund on my account.

This person mentioned others were doing the same thing he was. Jeff is biased and while it's fine to overlook the people doing wronge that you like or that spend a lot of money with you it's wrong to steal money from the people you don't like. Jeff has made it painfully clear that if you step on his toes or question him in ANY way he will put an end to your kingsnake.com account and most likely keep your money!

I was warned, I took heed and he still canceled my account to spite me. That is JUST BAD BUSINESS! Jeff has no morals and has ripped me off at this point. We'll see if he corrects this but I highly doubt it.

Good luck to all doing business with kingsnake.com

Adam Block

 

[Adam Block]

A hobby is all it is so I'm not stressed about this in the least. Thanks for the words though Fred and you're 100% this hobby is very messed up. It's all about money now and I have started to be more and more thankfull for people like Rich.

As for the refund. I emailed Jeff back within 1 minute of his email as I was on the lookout for him to cancel my account. I staited that the account I paid for my membership with was no longer open (due to theft, the balance is in despute) and I would need my refund via PayPal or some other method. He has since ignored every attempt I've made to contact him. I assume he will refund it to that account knowing this information anyway just so I don't see the funds. I know that the last thing he needs is another person on the list of "people screwed by kingsnake" but this list is getting bigger and bigger and I can only guess will grow to bite him very hard one day.

Adam Block

PS I intend to get this story out to as many people as I can and if you have anything you'd like to share or add to my story please email me and I will include you in the new section of my site staiting the true facts kingsnake.com

 

[Seamus Haley]

I know that the last thing he needs is another person on the list of "people screwed by kingsnake" but this list is getting bigger and bigger and I can only guess will grow to bite him very hard one day.

Now that's something I can agree with.

Kingsnake.com is certainly a great site and Jeff certainly did put a great deal of time and effort into creating what he has but he did not do it alone.

Where would Kingsnake be without the individuals who post in it's forums helping neophyte keepers?

Where would kingsnake be without the individuals who write the care articles that are hosted by KS?

Where would kingsnakebe without the people who allow an hour or more of their time to be spent in a guestchat answering questions?

Where would kingsnake be if it was not linked to the sites of the breeders and dealers who allow their educational or buisness websites to be placed on the mainpage?

Where would kingsnake be if not for the hundreds of people who hold classified accounts or the people who buy banner ads?

The point is, kingsnake, like any organization, relies on the public to maintain it's existance, alienate enough people from your customer base and the enterprise fails.

Jeff as an individual is a good man who created something great but many of his recent actions, along with his refusal to admit mistakes and his seemingly ever expanding and not entirely deserved ego will destroy what he has created if he continues on the path he has apparantly chosen for himself.

By no means do I think Adam was right for doing what he did in the deliberate violation of KS's TOS agreement but there is a kernal of truth to some of the emotions he's expressing over the results. Jeff didn't get where he is by himself or with the help of those he now seems to be surrounding himself with but he just may get himself something else...

 

[Adam Block]

By no means do I think Adam was right for doing what he did in the deliberate violation of KS's TOS agreement

I did not knowingly violate TOS and when it was brought to my attention that I had I didn't make so much as another post. As I said I've been using kingsnake.com for a long time and read the TOS when I got my first account but hadn't noticed it's huge growth spurt since that time. That is my fault none the less but I didn't knowingly do it.

My account was deleted because Jeff didn't like me offending his ego I believe and he was going to delete me to further perpetuate his God complex.

I will be launching KINGSNAKESUCKS.COM sometime this week and while I'm amazed at the number of supporters that have already shown interest I would love to see how many get on this boat. If you have a story, web skills or anything else you would like to provide please email me. I will focus on peoples stories of Jeff being unfair to them as well as providing other places to support that care about their customers.

Thanks a lot,
Adam Block

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

Jeff B. and KS.....

Sorry to hear about your problems Adam.

But in my experience with Jeff and his site, he has been great to me. And I am just a small fish in a very large reptile pond. He went a long way to help me get my site up and running. He put tons of effort into explaining technical babble that I still don't understand and even went much further than he really had to help me get it uploaded and put together. He charged me exactly jack squat for his assistance.

Not everything has been peachy and it really boils down to a well known puker salesman and his ban of cyber defenders. I have been given warnings and even had posts deleted. But out of respect for the man who helped me when I needed it, JEFFB, I have been very careful as to not let this group of riff raff destroy his site like they did before. I simply honored the warnings and nothing more has come of it.

I even met him in Chicago several times at a few of the Tinley Park shows. He was fun to meet, full of great information, and we had a ton of laughs to boot.

We have to remember several things,
1) it is his site and he can run it the way he wants
2) respect the warnings, they are for real
3) and don't spit in the face of the guy who has the #1 reptile site that you want to be on


Happy Holidays everyone.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Alvaro, yes I can charge as much as I want for a product and if the buyer agrees (either ignorance, laziness, or whatever) then that's ok.

I don't doubt you CAN charge as much for a product as you want. The problem is if you SHOULD do it, if you know the buyer is buying it completely unaware you are charging him 300% of the ongoing price. If it is a service you are providing and the buyer has the "benefit" of saving time, hassles, etc. and he agrees to it that's OK. But IMHO you are stating that taking advantage of people's ignorance it's OK and with that I agree to disagree.

 

[Classic Dum's]

I was only offering the information so you could choose where you spent your money

Adam did you ever think maybe he didnt want your list on his site because its illegal? I could be wrong but I thought profitting from a list such as that was illegal without consent from the companies first, which i am sure you didnt. Then dealing out what they want out of it. Because I for one would be pissed if I found out someone out there had my name on a list like that they were profitting from.

 

[Fred Albury]

Good point.

Jason has a point, hadnt thought about that. Mmmmm need to think about this more deeply(Takes off socks and drink eggnog spiked with rum) Mmmmm(More later after 5th glas of eggnog


Fred Albury
Raider Fan
Aztec Reptiles

 

[Adam Block]

Jason you are SO RIGHT!! Although I think you're a little off on the profit portion of it. I could be wrong, (ask my wife and she would be sure I was) but I would need to get money or some other method of compesation to be considered profit wouldn't I? As you can see, the list started free, is free and has never been offered for sale. Nice thought though

Thanks,
Adam Block

 

[Mike and Erica @ MotherGecko]

Just another thought...

Since we're talking legalities and all now. Just curious, but how long do you think KINGSNAKESUCKS.COM will last before that cease and desist order hits your mailbox Adam?