HCE-Kingsnake ad. fishy?

[The BoidSmith]

Donating a possible piebald to this cause is undoubtedly a very good thing to do. I wonder if John was ever able to visit them?

UPDATE ON 66% HET PIEDBALD DONATED TO ORNATESKY FUND Central Florida - Nationwide Shipping
Posted by AB Herps - CricketFood.com (Contact Me!) on May 26, 2003 at 07:51:43

This is an auction for a cb 2003 (you pick the sex) 66 % het for piebald ball python donated by HCE. All proceeds from this auction will go to Gina's OrnateSky Fund. These are from a het to het breeding and will be available following 2nd feeding. The winner also pays actual overnight shipping cost (aprox $40) that will be billed to you from the carrier. Live arrival plus 7 days guarantee. Sorry, I don't have a photo yet or a close date for the auction since that will depend on the date of the second feeding. A good guess would be sometime towards the end of the month... I will put a one week notice up before the auction ends to give everyone enough time to check the website. Good Luck and thanks for your support!

How to bid

Please email us with your highest offer and we will put that figure as the highest bid. We aren't set up like Ebay to make gradual increases in price (proxy bidding) so be sure the amount you offer is the maximum amount you are committing to pay. You can check for bid updates on Gina's site by clicking on the banner above and I will try to keep it updated several times a times (if needed). Payments can be made by PayPal, money orders or cashier's checks. Please remember your bid does not include the shipping cost.

Current Bid $500.00 by Bill Shanahan

Regards.

 

[John Albrecht]

Hi All

I havn't visited them. In fact, I havn't visited this website much lately until today. I see that there is a phone number and address posted for this guy now. I'll see what I can do.

 

[HerpVenue]

How wonderful.

I can personally donate normal female ball pythons as possible het for anything. Because it is possible for them to be het for something. But then again it is not probable.

Anyone see any other pics?

He has 100% het clutches and we see the same tired pic of PARTS of the "father".

Can we please see a full body pic of this "father"?

He has 66% het clutches. Does that mean he has produced some pieds and know for sure that the normal looking ones are 66%?

Can we also see pictures of his 66% het clutches with the piebald sibling?

Or are we gonna see PARTS of the "father" again?


He claims to have in the incubator pieds from a pied pair breeding.

Has anyone even seen a picture of his two pieds together?

Or are we gonna see "PARTS" of a snake again?

I do not know about you guys. But those "PARTS" are starting to look suspicious. Like why do we only see parts?

I too can take pictures of parts of a snake and make it look like a different snake each and every single time.

Someone visit them before they sell enough "hets" to buy another piebald.


WAIT A SECOND !!!!! He just bought a piebald this year.
Why would he buy one when he has at least two adults and some hets and six more incubating?

I am tired of seeing pictures of a piebald that has another snake covering it up. Why are we not allowed to see a full body shot of the male piebald and its progeny? Why is it every single piebald picture he posts has another snake covering parts of it up?

1. A full body shot of "the father" (piebald)
2. A full body shot of a piebald from his 66% clutch.
3. A full body shot of the mother (piebald)
4. A full body shot of the mother piebald and the father piebald.

Oh it is now 5/28/03. He supposedly has a clutch in the incubator that was due to hatch on 5/18/03 from a piebald pair breeding. I would like to see pictures of those too.

 

[The BoidSmith]

How wonderful.

I can personally donate normal female ball pythons as possible het for anything. Because it is possible for them to be het for something. But then again it is not probable.

Ritchie,

My recent post was because I have exactly the same concerns you have. The problem is that unless there is more tangible proof (like someone actually visiting his facilities) it is very difficult to prove any wrongdoing. Donating to this cause a "possible" piebald if it's in reality a 66er is a good deed. On the other hand, if it's a $10 normal, it's the best investment in advertisement ever.

Regards.

 

[HerpVenue]

oh I know why you posted it.

Remember when harry posted pictures of two "different" snakes?
remember how those two snakes have the same EXACT markings?
Rmember how easy it was to see that they were the same markings?

now ask yourself.

why all of a sudden harry"s picture taking technique changed.
why all of a sudden only take pictures of parts.
why all of a sudden have a normal ball python in the picture to cover up parts.

Dare I say it?
BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL THE SAME SNAKE WHICH HE IS REPRESENTING AS DIFFERENT.


okay. harry has 100% hets that he mated to produce 66% hets.
so how does he know they were really 100% unless he has produced pieds?
If he has produced pieds....who has bought them? Where are they? where are the pictures?


if i was the one who bought those "hets" like Paco and boavoyage......I would be having a serious talk with harry.

WAIT A SECOND chris aka paco. Where did you go?
i thought you said harry was going out of business and you were flying to his place to look into buying his collection? What happened? Or was that just an attempt to save face because you happen to be selling harry's fake hets?

Harry is going out of business?
why buy lots of ball pythons?
Why buy pieds even though he supposedly has 6 of them due on 5/18/03

paco / chris goucho. where did you go?

 

[The BoidSmith]

Ritchie,

okay. harry has 100% hets that he mated to produce 66% hets.
so how does he know they were really 100% unless he has produced pieds?
If he has produced pieds....who has bought them? Where are they? where are the pictures?

Actually you can breed together two true, certified 100% hetero for piebalds from a reputable breeder, and still not produce piebalds in your first or even your second attempt (odds against you if you will). But the fact is he claimed to have produced and sold piebalds in the past, although we never heard who the buyer was, and never saw a picture either. It's tough to sell a piebald (or for that matter any highed priced morph) without providing pictures.

Posted today (modified shorter version):

More info needed from Monday's high bidder on 66% het piedball donated to Gina's OrnateSky Fund
Central Florida - Nationwide Shipping
Posted by OrnateSky.org (Contact Me!) on May 28, 2003 at 07:07:33

This is an auction for a cb 2003 (you pick the sex) 66 % het for piebald ball python donated by HCE. All proceeds from this auction will go to Gina's OrnateSky Fund. These are from a het to het breeding and will be available following 2nd feeding. The winner also pays actual overnight shipping cost (aprox $40) that will be billed to you from the carrier. Live arrival plus 7 days guarantee. Sorry, I don't have a photo yet or a close date for the auction since that will depend on the date of the second feeding. I emailed Harry (the person that donated the snake) this morning (Weds the 28th) to ask for an update so I will post any new information I receive when I get it. I will put a one week notice up before the auction ends to give everyone enough time to check the website. Good Luck and thanks for your support!

Current Bid $500.00 by Bill Shanahan

High bid of $1000 on Monday by [email protected] Here's my problem... We received this email Monday and the email address that was provided isn't valid. My replies (sent with the www. removed) have been returned to me 3 times so I have no way of reaching you unless you happen to read this. Please email me directly at [email protected] instead of replying through this ad with your name, address, and a valid email address if you wish your bid to count. Otherwise, the current bid still stands at $500 from Bill.

i will bid 1,000 thank you

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This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.

Sent 08:47 PM, May 26th, 2003 from I.P. Address 219.162.48.91

Again, this should not be taken lightly as the proceeds go towards a very noble cause.

Regards.

 

[Boavoyage]

if i was the one who bought those "hets" like Paco and boavoyage......I would be having a serious talk with harry.

I bought a female 100% het piebald originally from HCE. However, I did not buy from Harry, so I didn't bother to talk to him much. I had a long discussion with my seller, whom I will not disclose his/her name (definitely not Paco), and (s)he stands behind the genetic issue. I doubt much on Harry's credit, but the one I dealt with has good reputate and I respect that (s)he did work hard to gain his/her reputate, so I give him/her (and Harry) a benefit of the doubt at this time. I will keep update this post if I can prove her out. Also, I had a receipt from H.C.E w/ handwritting that guarantee for life on 100% het - Look legit (of course, it could just be a piece of paper also.) Also, it's just my opinion that Paco is already finished selling HCE hets, so I don't think he will be back....

 

[The BoidSmith]

John,

Thanks for posting. It's really important to hear from someone that bought an animal from them.

It's understandable if you don't want to disclose the name of the person who sold you the python. What I don't understand is why Harry never sold animals himself (until recently) but always had people sell his animals.

You say the seller stands besides their genetics. Did he/she tell you how? What's the guarantee?

I doubt much on Harry's credit, but the one I dealt with has good reputate and I respect that (s)he did work hard to gain his/her reputate, so I give him/her (and Harry) a benefit of the doubt at this time.

You doubt the breeder but you trust the broker???

I will keep update this post if I can prove her out.

Out of curiosity, What's the origin of the male you are going to breed her to? Piebald or 100% hetero also?

Also, I had a receipt from H.C.E w/ handwritting that guarantee for life on 100% het - Look legit (of course, it could just be a piece of paper also.)

I would have to agree with you that it is more than likely legit. After all what's the point in falsifying a handwritten paper.

Also, it's just my opinion that Paco is already finished selling HCE hets, so I don't think he will be back....

Yes, I do suspect that too. Particularly by the wording used in recent HCE ads.

Thanks again.

 

[Boavoyage]

You say the seller stands besides their genetics. Did he/she tell you how? What's the guarantee?

(S)he offered to buy back the animal if there is no piebald produced. I can either get my money back or use it to purchase something else from him.

You doubt the breeder but you trust the broker???

I don't think (s)he brokered Harry's animal. They had a trade, and (s)he was stuck w/ Harry's animals. (S) he told me that (s)he keeps some and sells some, and both of us will work on it to find out if they are indeed het like Harry claimed.

Out of curiosity, What's the origin of the male you are going to breed her to? Piebald or 100% hetero also?

At this time, I have a 100% het piebald that I bought directly from Dan Sutherland, Snake Keeper. The chance with het to het breeding is very slim, so I am selling some of my stock so that I can get some money looking forward to purchase a male piebald ball python to use on her.

 

[The BoidSmith]

At this time, I have a 100% het piebald that I bought directly from Dan Sutherland, Snake Keeper. The chance with het to het breeding is very slim, so I am selling some of my stock so that I can get some money looking forward to purchase a male piebald ball python to use on her.

John,

At least you have a 100% hetero from a highly reputable breeder. Your chances are not that slim you might get 25% piebalds although if you get none you will have to try again. Wish you good luck in proving her out!

Daniel

 

[The BoidSmith]

HET PIEDS,AND POSSIBLE HET PIEDS
shipping nationwide(weather permitting)
Posted by HCE (Contact Me!) on May 29, 2003 at 22:36:17

Click on thumbnails to view fullsize in a new window

why buy OUR animals from others?
cut out the middleman!and SAVE!

we have just a few 03s ,
and a few due soon

heres whats available

100% het males $750.00
100% het females $1300.00
poss hets(66%) $600.00,either sex
shipping extra(aprox $42,billed by carrier)

all gar. live arrival plus 10 days
genetics gar. for life
100$ are vet microchipped

why buy OUR animals from others?
cut out the middleman!and SAVE!

How about because they bought them from you in the first place?

Regards.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Update

UPDATE ON 66% HET PIEDBALD DONATED TO ORNATESKY FUND - AUCTION ENDS JUNE 8TH
Central Florida - Nationwide Shipping
Posted by OrnateSky.org (Contact Me!) on May 31, 2003 at 09:45:17

This is an auction for a cb 2003 (you pick the sex) 66 % het for piebald ball python donated by HCE. All proceeds from this auction will go to Gina's OrnateSky Fund. These are from a het to het breeding and will be available following 2nd feeding. The winner also pays actual overnight shipping cost (aprox $40) that will be billed to you from the carrier. Live arrival plus 7 days guarantee.

Update. The pythons have shed and had their first feeding and are almost ready to go. Sorry, I do not have a photo. This auction will end Sunday, June 8th. Good Luck and thanks for your support!

How to bid

Please email us with your highest offer and we will put that figure as the highest bid. We aren't set up like Ebay to make gradual increases in price (proxy bidding) so be sure the amount you offer is the maximum amount you are committing to pay. You can check for bid updates on Gina's site by clicking on the banner above and I will try to keep it updated several times a times (if needed). Payments can be made by PayPal, money orders or cashier's checks. Please remember your bid does not include the shipping cost. I also need your name, contact info and a valid email address for your bid to be accepted.

Current Bid $500.00 by Bill Shanahan

High bid of $1000 on Monday the 26th by [email protected] Here's my problem... We received the following email and the email address that was provided isn't valid. My replies (sent with the www. removed) have been returned to me 3 times so I have no way of reaching you unless you happen to read this. Please email me directly at [email protected] instead of replying through this ad with your name, address, and a valid email address if you wish your bid to count. Otherwise, the current bid still stands at $500 from Bill and we will continue to take bids from the $500 amount. This is the final notice as I have to be fair to everyone else. If I haven't heard from you by Monday, June 2nd your bid will be removed.

i will bid 1,000 thank you

----------------------------------------------
This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.

Sent 08:47 PM, May 26th, 2003 from I.P. Address 219.162.48.91

 

[RoyalReptiles]

Hce pic of pied!!!

I have a pair of subadult het pieds form HCE.
And Lots of pics of his pied and albino.

We will see next season what comes out of the two subadults..

I've seen this whole post and nobody seems to have any concrete proofs of him selling fakes, I think its not fair to bandalize a business before something is proven!!!! isn't it????

I'm not defending or proving anithing here, just giving my two cents on this problem..

Thanks.

 

[HerpVenue]

And Lots of pics of his pied and albino.

Kindly post them.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Royal Reptiles,

Please post your complete name before your contribution to this thread is deleted. No one is here to vandalize no business. You may want to do some further reading on this matter and you might start to understand some of the concerns manifested in here:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15225&highlight=digital+reptiles

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10219&highlight=Digital+Reptiles

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18267&highlight=digital

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15394&highlight=digital

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15225&highlight=digital

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13575&highlight=digital

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10246&highlight=digital


Regards.

 

[RoyalReptiles]

I may pay him a visit latter on this year to take some pics of his animals and post them in here and my website!

I'll post the pics that I have If I can figure how to reduce the size to post them in here.

I live in florida,

 

[The BoidSmith]

Steven,

Thanks for posting your complete name. Every other bit of information will help everyone try to figure out what's going on. The porblem is that so far everyone that we know (included myself) that has inquired about the piebalds for sale got a similar reply, either he had no camera (and yet can afford having breeders of the most expensive morphs) or the animals were just sold. In one instance a potential buyer even waited for the pictures to be developed and that never happened (please read through those threads). When you posted for the first time and I quote:

We will see next season what comes out of the two subadults..

Maybe yes maybe not. It depends on the odds. You might even get lucky and have more than 25% piebalds in your first clutch! If on the other hand they are all normal-looking balls, you will have to try again next year, and maybe even the following to be sure of their genetics. So we might be talking 2005 maybe 2006...(if you produce a clutch every year). One way or the other I wish you the best of lucks as this information will help everyone. Looking forward to see those pctures of HCE breeding stock!

Regards.

 

[NEWReptiles]

I have a pair of subadult het pieds form HCE.And Lots of pics of his pied and albino.

In the second part of that quote it states that you have lots of pics. Is there any reason why you cant post the ones you have?

 

[NEWReptiles]

Sorry Stsven

I'll post the pics that I have If I can figure how to reduce the size to post them in here.

I missed this part.

 

[screamdreams]

Email them to me...

Send me the pics via email and I'll resize and post them up for you.

screamdreams