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HCE-Kingsnake ad. fishy?

SERIOUSLY THOUGH.
whoops caps.

Aren't you close enough to give him a beating if they don't prove out?

Oh wait a second. He guaranteed them as Harry of HCE Repitles.
But since Harry has been dead since 1999.....there is absolutely no way he can be held accountable.
 
Duhhh!

He was plain and simply stating that he could not back-up the genetics of the animals his sons were selling. If this was written by Bruce it makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...

It does make sense after all. The intention of that post was to completely separate Harry's from Bruce's businesses. If there are any complaints about the genetics of the animals Harry sold, the buyer will have to go and complain to him, and not Bruce. And according to Brian's findings it's going to be veeeeeery difficult.

Regards.
 
Hey alvaro.
I hope my post helped you.

I was wondering why you were even asking such a question.

But everyone has one of those days
 
Yes it did!

I was wandering why Bruce was digging his own grave with that post but in reality he was saving face and in the meantime "Harry" was selling 66ers all over the board.

Regards.
 
"Aren't you close enough to give him a beating if they don't prove out" I am not sure who this is directed at, but I am way up in Michigan, however Todd Callan was last heard from not to far away, so I could probably drop by and pay both a friendly visit all in one trip. Boy when Bruce said his father was sick he was REALLY down playing. LOL. I laugh cuz if I dont I would probably cry. Craig Kade
 
Wow. This forum is really a impressive example of how good technology has gotten lately. Apparently the Internet now has a Ouija board interface so that dead people can post on the BOI.

This smells fishier than the back end of a cottonmouth's dinner. Is there some reasonable explanation for this unusual state of affairs, or should we be calling Ghostbusters?
 
RoyalReptiles said:
Yes I'm a vet tech and have done x-rays in all animals ( They all have the microchipps )
Click to expand...

I'm curious as to why you wanted to get radiographs of healthy young animals? That really isn't how you find microchips.

Radiographs (x-rays) are a valuable diagnostic tool in many kinds of suspected illnesses or injuries, but they also cost money even when you work at a vet clinic - the film ain't cheap. Also there are potential teratogenic effects to an animal (or a human) getting too many of them, so it's not usually something that is done casually to check normal growth and development in a clinically healthy young animal.

I'd much rather get a CBC for baseline data on the patient and maybe a fine needle aspirate or liver biopsy for IBD testing than rads on a post purchase exam of a valuable ball python that appeared clinically normal. Adult breeders might get an ultrasound, but I'm unclear as to what you were looking for by radiographing the babies. Any hints?
 
ReticEd said:
Who is doing liver biopsies on live snakes to test for IBD?
Click to expand...

Dr. Doug Mader described this technique in a lecture last week at NAVC. It was also discussed by Dr. Steven Hernandez-Divers in the endoscopy section of a course he was teaching on advanced reptile medicine a few months ago. Your best bet would be to have your local vet take the biopsy through an endoscope and send the results to ZooPath in Seattle as Dr. Garner has considerable experience in IBD pathology.

Two other possible places to ask for help would be the wildlife teaching hospital attached to the University of Florida in Gainesville, and the Exotic Animal, Wildlife and Zoological Medicine, Department of Small Animal Medicine & Surgery, College of Veterinary Medicine,
University of Georgia, in Athens.

Liver biopsy isn't 100% reliable; you can get false negatives if you don't happen to grab the right section of liver. And I hear pathologists complaining that a fine needle aspirate is much more likely to give false negatives or to be unreadable than a biopsy. Currently these are the best tests out there short of postmortem histopathology of the entire liver, pancreas and kidney. The liver is the most likely place to find the inclusion bodies, with the pancreas and the kidney considered next.

The lab guys are always going to be asking for a bigger and bigger sample so they can get more data, and of course the vet guys doing the biopsy cannot just excise the whole liver on a live patient and send it in for pathology. So a biopsy is probably the best compromise if you really need to know whether or not a snake is a carrier. I'm not sure if it would even be indicated in anything other than a boa, since they are the ones who are most likely to be silent long term carriers.
 
I know some doctors do needle aspirate biopsys on live humans.
I am one of those humans.
So I think someone out there probably does them on animals
 
alvaro said:
I don't know who will be doing liver biopsies as a routine diagnostic procedure for IBD, but it has been done before experimentally.
Click to expand...

I know Dr. Wozniak, he does good work, and he's a hot keeper too. :)

The person doing the liver biopsy on your snake should be your local veterinarian. Any experienced reptile vet with the appropriate equipment can do this. An endoscope would probably be the best tool.

The person doing the pathology on the liver biopsy has to be someone experienced in looking for IBD. Dr. Garner at Zoopath.com would probably be your best bet.

So in theory any vet could take the biopsy sample and be instructed to mail the results to ZooPath. Your vet should also talk to Dr. Garner before taking the sample to get his instructions first, if your vet isn't already familiar with ZooPath's submission guidelines.

I suppose any pathology lab would theoretically do, but many of the other labs out there only have experience with mammals and have no idea what to do with a snake sample, let alone what IBD looks like. The bad thing is that they might take your money anyhow and present findings that don't make any sense and aren't of any clinical use. So find a lab that you can trust to send the results out to, one that has people on staff who have real experience with snakes and preferably with IBD research.
 
H.C.E.Reptiles
Harry Eisenmann
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: south carolina
Posts: 4
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at the time I had NO reputation,and when pics were posted,everyone on boi,wondered who I stole the pics from,
this isnt over what I had or produced,rather its about my price
Harry Eisenmann

again the rules are just for me



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07-09-2003 09:38 PM
Click to expand...

Hi harry.
the above was your last post.

You seem to have disappeared ever since we informed you that you have been dead for over four years.

Did you decide to go back to the grave?
Or did your son bruce just decide to give up the charade?

its okay at least you still have a couple fans out there.
like that guy with the screen name bigshow or bigshow.
he says that everything we say about you lacks facts.
so I guess you are realy not rotting away in the grave.
you must really be alive. (in the minds of bruce and this bigshow dude)

well it has been a while since I read one of your posts from the grave harry. I look forward to reading them again.

Speaking of graves. Exactly where do you plug your computer in?
Do you have a special order casket, that your son bruce or your fan mike norman, order for you?
 
The worst part about this is these retards (plural because of multiple personalities not that I think there is more then one) are still selling stuff on K/s. You would be surprised the number of people that are unaware of this great site. 2 people I sold to already this year were not members until I pointed it out. Craig
 
I have a het pied female from Carolina Reptile Exchange. SO i purchased a male het pied from Ralph Davis. The het albino female I had was sold to Ron Billingsley in Indiana. He knows the deal with HCE,Digital reptiles and Carolina Reptile Exchange. It was not sold as an het albino. I sold it to Ron for 75 dollars. He has albinos he plans to breed to her and he said he will keep me in touch. I doubt that she will prove out but if she does i will personally post a apology on here and send a letter to Bruce.
 
Here is some the paper work i got from them. Oh Bruce not Harry. I do not talk to the dead.


hets1.jpg

hets3.jpg

hets5.jpg
 
Well, I just caught these guys emailing around a photo of one of my rather unique color morph snakes that I took in front of my bedroom window, and passing it off as the mother of one of their snakes that they sold. Brilliant work since my snake is unlikely to ever be a mother; it's a male.

These guys are a real piece of work. There are other threads that discuss the evidence at length, including a conviction for animal cruelty in Florida and Harry's obituary. It would be very wise to read them before buying anything. It would be even wiser to just not buy anything from these people. They are con artists, scammers and liars of the lowest degree.
 
I know first hand how they are. I personally saw the conditions there animals were kept in. I did see the albino male and a pied as well. They have some nice animals but were kept in very poor conditions. They were heavily mite infested. Feeders left in the cages and they were swollen to the point they were about to bust. Crap all in the cages. No water or dirty water. They had little turtles alot of them were dead and decaying.
 
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