Heavy parasite load found in ball python from Ed Clark

[cookreptiles]

Someone advised me to ask my vet how long this snake had to have had these parasites for the infestation to be at the level it currently is. I just got off of the phone with the vet's office and they said that she had to have been infected for 6 months to a year MINIMUM in order for the infestation to be at the level that it is now, but that she may have been harboring the parasites for longer. While that doesn't prove anything 100%, it does help to confirm that she came to me with the parasites already in her system.

 

[KelliH]

Wes, I am sorry you resent what I posted, it was not directed at you specifically, but all posting against Ed in this thread. It is my opinion that the negative posts against Ed in this thread are based not on the facts of what has happened. I of course take you at your word and if you say you would react the same no matter who's reputation and business is at stake here than of course I believe you. It should not be about feelings, like you said, it should be about facts. I see the facts one way, apparantly almost everyone else reading this thread sees them differently and thinks I am wrong. I have no problem with that at all and it does not change the way I see things.

I do think that Ed needs to be more proactive in this instance, and he should have been more responsive to Emily but in fairness it was only 2 days after she pm'ed him that she started this thread.

 

[JudyC]

I do think that Ed needs to be more proactive in this instance, and he should have been more responsive to Emily but in fairness it was only 2 days after she pm'ed him that she started this thread.

Emily was trying to be patient with Ed after she sent the PM....until this little quote popped up:

Mike, great post...I feel the knife you just stuck in my back!

Every living being can harbor internal parasites including snakes, lizards, turtles and frogs. we as keepers have got to do fecal exams to assure our reptiles are clean and healthy.

I have a large collection of ball pythons that are tested randomly by an excellent herp vet. and fecal exams are done all year long to assure me my Pythons are healthy. all the tests have come back negative, and I know without a doubt that no internal parasites came from my pythons!

I traded Emily Cook some baby ball pythons for some crested geckos around a year ago. I know she has added other Ball Pythons after she recieved the ones from me. how can she point her finger at me after a year ?, and why did she not do fecal exams when she recieved these Balls a year ago? Mike I could give a rats ass what you think about me.

That did not come from my python! but this has been a year after she made that trade deal with me?

That made it pretty clear that he had no intentions of following through with Emily any further on the matter and was not the least bit concerned about even the possibility of a serious contamination in his own collection.

 

[Griz]

Wes, I am sorry you resent what I posted, it was not directed at you specifically, but all posting against Ed in this thread. It is my opinion that the negative posts against Ed in this thread are based not on the facts of what has happened. I of course take you at your word and if you say you would react the same no matter who's reputation and business is at stake here than of course I believe you. It should not be about feelings, like you said, it should be about facts. I see the facts one way, apparantly almost everyone else reading this thread sees them differently and thinks I am wrong. I have no problem with that at all and it does not change the way I see things.

I do think that Ed needs to be more proactive in this instance, and he should have been more responsive to Emily but in fairness it was only 2 days after she pm'ed him that she started this thread.

Kelli, it's well known that Ed and I have no love lost between us. I think he has done more to harm this hobby then to help. However, I also believe that 10 months is a long time to be able to accurately place blame.

My issue with Ed here is simply this......Is there a possibility that the parasites came from him? Undoubtedly so. Therefore, Ed should have been very proactive here not only to help save people's collections but also to save his reputation. Err'r on the side of integrity is advice Ed has been given many times before and has yet to heed.

Emily has done her best to show that other sources of the parasites have been virtually eliminated (ie raising her own feeders, lack of new animals etc). Ed, on the other hand, has simply not responded. Normally, a lack of response would not bother me but we all know Ed and he is typically very active in other people's "bad guy" threads.

I look at it this way.....OJ Simpson was found innocent yet the vast majority of us want him to pay for this current crime as a way to punish him for his past crime. Why is that? Because his reputation preceeds him. Same with Ed. He won't get the benefit of the doubt with people here because he has not earned it. Rich Z etc, have earned that right and a right it most certainly is.

So, Ed, with all that said, let's see where you start producing evidence to support the health of your animals. Here's your quote:

I have a very good herp vet that I use and we do random fecals on my adult breeders and have not had any positive results yet for internal parasites...all negative!

Start here Ed. Show us the results of the fecal exams. Show us where you have paid to have your animals tested in the past so that you know they are healthy. That at least would give some credence to the above quote.

Griz

 

[cookreptiles]

I don't understand why anyone thinks I would lie or make this up? I have only presented facts but I can't control how other people respond to them. Ed sent me some photos of the snakes before he sent them to me--perhaps if one of those photos is of this girl I can post it and a photo of her now? Is that really necessary?

I started this thread 3 days after informing Ed of the issue. In my opinion that is plenty of time to "get back to me" about the origins of the snakes, especially when the problem is a serious one. I was originally going to wait longer to post, but the issue was being discussed on several other forums (where it was apparent that Ed had no intention of resolving things) so I decided that it would be best to bring it here.

 

[Wilomn]

Start here Ed. Show us the results of the fecal exams. Show us where you have paid to have your animals tested in the past so that you know they are healthy. That at least would give some credence to the above quote.

Griz

When pigs fly Griz, when chicharones fall from the sky, that is my bet for seeing the results you've requested and mr. clark has stated he has in his possesion.

 

[Jim O]

I do think that Ed needs to be more proactive in this instance, and he should have been more responsive to Emily but in fairness it was only 2 days after she pm'ed him that she started this thread.

Kelli, how long would it have taken you if someone thought they got animals infested with multiple parasites from you? And how long would you have waited if the "breeder" didn't get back to you?

Someone advised me to ask my vet how long this snake had to have had these parasites for the infestation to be at the level it currently is. I just got off of the phone with the vet's office and they said that she had to have been infected for 6 months to a year MINIMUM in order for the infestation to be at the level that it is now, but that she may have been harboring the parasites for longer. While that doesn't prove anything 100%, it does help to confirm that she came to me with the parasites already in her system.

This narrows the window considerably, now doesn't it?


Then there are Ed Clark's own words copied from another forum (I'd love a link or a screen shot so we can actually see the quote as he entered it) that only add to Ed Clark's refusal to consider that there is even a remote possibility that the source of these parasites was him. Typical and vintage Ed Clark.

 

[Jim O]

I don't understand why anyone thinks I would lie or make this up?

Emily,

No one with a grain of sense believes that.

 

[Wilomn]

Emily, could you post links to other forums where mr. clark has discussed this with you?

thanks

 

[Griz]

Emily, just to clarify, I don't doubt anything you say at this point. While there may be other answers as to where they came from, I do not doubt your story.

Griz

 

[Griz]

When pigs fly Griz, when chicharones fall from the sky, that is my bet for seeing the results you've requested and mr. clark has stated he has in his possesion.

I know Wes, I doubt we will ever see anything. If we do then great. If we don't then I reckon we all could see that coming.

Griz

 

[JudyC]

Then there are Ed Clark's own words copied from another forum (I'd love a link or a screen shot so we can actually see the quote as he entered it) that only add to Ed Clark's refusal to consider that there is even a remote possibility that the source of these parasites was him. Typical and vintage Ed Clark.

Here ya go...

 

[cookreptiles]

Ed and I have not discussed this outside of the private messages that I posted and here on this thread. It was his post on the forum that Judy has provided a screenshot of that prompted me to go ahead and post here yesterday.

 

[Gary O]

John, John, John, surely you know that this is blatantly untrue? Do you really believe, after several conversations in chat and several others on TRR, that Captive Born and Bred can have ANYTHING to do with being imported?

CBB can ONLY be captively bred and born in CAPTIVITY. It can NOT be an egg laid from a wild caught mother and hatched in captivity, that is CB; captive born. There is a WORLD, literally, of difference between them.

I know you want to be helpful, but your youthful exuberance is telling again, much as it did the other night when one of your boas unexpectedly died but you didn't want to bother with a necropsy.

Some things really should be done and knowing your definitions is certainly one of them. Knowing why your animals die for no reason is another.

Please get your facts straight before you tell someone else they are wrong.

When you are so blatantly wrong it makes all of us who have tried so hard to teach you look and feel bad.

What I believe he is saying is.

WC female comes into the country. Ed then breeds it to a male spider or what not. This female that was imported would be WC. But the babies would be CBB........................................

 

[Gary O]

Also to add. That if the said snake was produced by a WC female that had these parasites then the babies also could have them. As it has already been stated.

Wes instead of trying to break people down why not try to actually ask them what they ment. Sometimes it seems you have to act as if you are better then others. If you need that to make yourself feel better then others, tell yourself you are better then me, becuase everyone is.

But That is what he ment. A Female being imported and Ed using it to breed. That would produce CBB. Just becuase the female was WC does not make anything she produces Captive born lol.

About the situation.

Emily I am really sorry to hear about this. I would be upset myself if found this in my collection. it really is hard to say where they came from. Honestly it is. 10 months is a long long time.

But again I know where you are coming from. Could the snakes you got from Ed be loaded down with stuff when you purchased or traded for them? YEP! Did Ed know this? I could not answer that.

Could these be CBB and still have all listed parasites? Yep. It matters on how Ed kept the babies. All it takes is one snake.

If I was in Ed's Shoes this is what I would do.

I would track back to your trade. And I would have fecals done on the breeders I produced them animals with. Most people track this. If that can not be done I would test many animals in each rack. If everything is clean then I would contact you to let you know.

The biggest thing here is this. Are the other snakes from Ed loaded down? We soon will find out. That will be telling.

Emily in the last 10 months have any other snakes at all came in contact with your collection. I mean any? I know you said you have only bought a couple others. But I have friends that bring snakes to me that is why I ask.

This things sucks all around. But to tell you the truth. Everyone slamming each other does not help this.

Emily I would love to hear about how the snake starts growing once cleaned up.

 

[Wilomn]

Gary, your little brother, bigjohn, has had this conversation with many people on several occasions.

Do you really think an imported female would come in in shape to be bred? Do you really think someone, even mr. clark, would put a valuable male in with an imported female?

You and I both know that your little brother meant a gravid wildcaught female that subsequently laid eggs that were then hatched in captivity.

Captive born and bred, cbb. Sure it's possible to use a wild caught female for this. It generally takes about 2 to 3 years to get one in shape to breed. Do you REALLY think that's what your little brother meant in his post?

Ask him, your little brother, to come here and clear it up. Judging by the conversations and his inability to get the whole cbb, cb, ch thing, I'm comfortable making the statement that I did.

I don't suppose your little brother told you about those conversations he's had in chat, did he? In more than one chat if I recall correctly. He's trying to pass himself off as something he's not and he hates being called on it. The boy still has a LOT to learn.

 

[KelliH]

Start here Ed. Show us the results of the fecal exams. Show us where you have paid to have your animals tested in the past so that you know they are healthy. That at least would give some credence to the above quote.

If I were Ed I would do this asap.

I don't understand why anyone thinks I would lie or make this up? I have only presented facts but I can't control how other people respond to them. Ed sent me some photos of the snakes before he sent them to me--perhaps if one of those photos is of this girl I can post it and a photo of her now? Is that really necessary?

Emily, I don't believe you are making anything up and I never said that. My points were being made in a hypothetical manner and I completely understand your frustration and anger over the situation.

Kelli, how long would it have taken you if someone thought they got animals infested with multiple parasites from you? And how long would you have waited if the "breeder" didn't get back to you?

Well, I don't know exactly Jim. What I do know there is a lot more to my life than reptiles and there are times when I don't answer emails or pm's immediately. I am not only a reptile breeder but also a mother, wife, daughter, maid, cook, chauffer, the list goes on. There are times I may be out of town for 2 or 3 days at a time at a show or for other reasons. I have no idea what Ed's or most other "breeders" lives are like and what other roles they play in their lives but I would like to think I would give them the benefit of the doubt before posting here and possibly causing harm to their business. It's obvious I am in the minority here and I am ok with that.

It was his post on the forum that Judy has provided a screenshot of that prompted me to go ahead and post here yesterday.

And after reading that I can now better understand why you went ahead and posted here. He brought it up publically first, so I see no reason why you should not continue it publically.

 

[JudyC]

Also to add. That if the said snake was produced by a WC female that had these parasites then the babies also could have them. As it has already been stated.

...

But That is what he ment. A Female being imported and Ed using it to breed. That would produce CBB. Just becuase the female was WC does not make anything she produces Captive born lol.

....

Ed has already stated more than once that ALL his animals are clean and regularly checked. IF this is true...and IF he actually brought in a WC female of breeding size....sounds like Ed is savvy enough, and fastidious enough to have made sure she was clean before actually exposing her to any of his colony and breeding her. At least...he says he is. And that is the whole point of this discussion. Ed SAYS his animals are clean and there's no way the parasites could have come from his collection. Emily says HER collection is clean and the only infected animal(s) came directly from Ed and had no other exposure to any new animals since.

While I've never had a business transaction with either person...I've had plenty enough personal interaction with both of them to know where I'd put my money on who is being honest about the state of their collection.

 

[Gary O]

Gary, your little brother, bigjohn, has had this conversation with many people on several occasions.

Do you really think an imported female would come in in shape to be bred? Do you really think someone, even mr. clark, would put a valuable male in with an imported female?

You and I both know that your little brother meant a gravid wildcaught female that subsequently laid eggs that were then hatched in captivity.

Captive born and bred, cbb. Sure it's possible to use a wild caught female for this. It generally takes about 2 to 3 years to get one in shape to breed. Do you REALLY think that's what your little brother meant in his post?

Ask him, your little brother, to come here and clear it up. Judging by the conversations and his inability to get the whole cbb, cb, ch thing, I'm comfortable making the statement that I did.

I don't suppose your little brother told you about those conversations he's had in chat, did he? In more than one chat if I recall correctly. He's trying to pass himself off as something he's not and he hates being called on it. The boy still has a LOT to learn.

He told me what he meant that is why I posted He told me what he posted when I seen this thread. I did not even read it yet I just seen the title.

Wes you come off as an ahole sometimes. My little Brother gets excited over new things. I do to. Maybe some others need to get excited over the hobby as a hole instead of trying to break down others. I know of convos you all have. I tell him hey you were wrong there or what not.

Just like you are not right all the time Wes. Just like you tell john he can not get Hypo FWC for 35 bucks. Sorry to tell you this, I do. There is a guy in Michigan that breeds them and sells them to us for that price.

He knows the difference. And could it be that this was an honest misunderstanding. maybe John is a good kid trying to do well. Maybe just maybe he wants to fit in. Do you know most people that talk to him in chats think he is older then he is. Sometimes bro step back. Think a bit. educate instead of break down.

But he honestly ment that a WC female bred to a snake he already had.

Could a WC female be ready. NO but he said could be just like the what ifs posted all through out this thread. You pck the weak bro to go after. He just posted another What IF. That is all.

hence why you rarely see me on forums. Everyone is out to be better then others. Me and a buddy were talking about that at a show. funny huh and I own a forum................................

What happened to the vets of this hobby putting aside their pride and ego and just helping?

 

[Gary O]

Ed has already stated more than once that ALL his animals are clean and regularly checked. IF this is true...and IF he actually brought in a WC female of breeding size....sounds like Ed is savvy enough, and fastidious enough to have made sure she was clean before actually exposing her to any of his colony and breeding her. At least...he says he is. And that is the whole point of this discussion. Ed SAYS his animals are clean and there's no way the parasites could have come from his collection. Emily says HER collection is clean and the only infected animal(s) came directly from Ed and had no other exposure to any new animals since.

While I've never had a business transaction with either person...I've had plenty enough personal interaction with both of them to know where I'd put my money on who is being honest about the state of their collection.

I understand that. I was just letting Wes know what my brother was saying earlier in the thread. Sorry I am late lol.