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Het for IMG?

Cat_72

Cat_72

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I recently noticed an ad for a Spider bp that was "het for IMG".

Has this been proven to be a recessive trait while I wasn't paying attention?
 
increasing melamine gene

As far as I know it has not been proven yet. People are working with IMG's but nothing has been released yet.
 
Melanin, lol. I think Steve knew what he meant to say, his fingers just didn't type it.

That's pretty much what I thought, everything I have seen on the IMG has said that either they don't think it is dependably reproducable, or not genetic at all.

$2000 is a pretty high price for a male spider "het IMG", isn't it?
 
I believe Mike Cole bred IMG X IMG and did not get any in the offspring.
 
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IMG's are born looking completely normal and change sometime down the road...
I've heard from one person that theirs changed about 6 or 7 months after it was born and I spoke with Allan Bosch's Partner in Orlando a couple of weeks about them and he said it takes a couple years or more before they change...

They start out looking as very pretty normals, change into what look like a extremely axanthic animal (like an axanthic baby) and then change back... they never completely look like they did before they changed though...

I think it's a very interesting trait however and am working with an animal that is from an IMG breeding... she hasn't changed over yet but shows signs of an IMG female... just a couple things I've noticed atleast...
 
jnjreptile said:
I believe Mike Cole bred IMG X IMG and did not get any in the offspring.
Click to expand...

Micheal from ballroom pythons south?

I know Ben Cole has been working with an IMG line himself...
 
I recall someone (Amir maybe) was able to reproduce IMGs - but these were not the IMGs that "axanthic out" - but were snakes born dirty and got dirtier. Last year I spoke to Michael Cole about his IMG to IMG project - yes he did get offspring - no they had not shown any signs of being IMG.

That all being said - I wouldn't pay for IMG unless it was already dirty - but only for the coolness factor - not for the genetics - 'cause no one has constantly proved anything yet. I don't think I'd pay $2k for the coolness factor of an already dirty spider - let alone $2K for "in the unlikely event" that he dirties up.
 
ToshaMc said:
I recall someone (Amir maybe) was able to reproduce IMGs - but these were not the IMGs that "axanthic out" - but were snakes born dirty and got dirtier. Last year I spoke to Michael Cole about his IMG to IMG project - yes he did get offspring - no they had not shown any signs of being IMG.

That all being said - I wouldn't pay for IMG unless it was already dirty - but only for the coolness factor - not for the genetics - 'cause no one has constantly proved anything yet. I don't think I'd pay $2k for the coolness factor of an already dirty spider - let alone $2K for "in the unlikely event" that he dirties up.
Click to expand...

I think for that $2k I'd work a deal with somebody for a 1.1 pair of bees and work on some killerbees, super pastels and more bees!! :D I dunno... MY opinion.
 
If I'm not mistaken Amir has been working with the voodoo, a form of IMG. I saw them at Daytona and have a pair myself, although the female will not be ready until next season. I'm not sure they have been proven to be reproducible genetically. It seems this person bred a IMG to a spider and IMHO that's as far as the claim can go.

Best regards.
 
Cat_72 said:
Melanin, lol. I think Steve knew what he meant to say, his fingers just didn't type it.
Click to expand...
Thank you Cathy. I didn't mean het for wood. :rofl:
 
SPJ said:
Thank you Cathy. I didn't mean het for wood. :rofl:
Click to expand...

Ah, but maybe if they produce their own melamine racks, they'd be worth that $2000 price tag!! :D

ToshaMc said:
That all being said - I wouldn't pay for IMG unless it was already dirty - but only for the coolness factor - not for the genetics - 'cause no one has constantly proved anything yet. I don't think I'd pay $2k for the coolness factor of an already dirty spider - let alone $2K for "in the unlikely event" that he dirties up.
Click to expand...


I would assume that since this snake is suppose to simply be "het" for IMG, that it doesn't show the trait at all....and since it was I believe an '06 animal, if it were going to show the trait, it would have by now.

Wasn't Ralph Davis working with the IMG a few years back as well? He had his "Dirty Joe" I think he was called, and I don't think anything ever came from that....

And I thought the "Voodoo" bp were a very dark animal from the time they hatched? Very cool looking animals, but didn't think they were actually considered the same as an IMG? Now I'm getting more confused, lol.
 
The voodoo is a super melanistic animal. Straight out of the egg, they have that black wash over them.
Cool looking but a lot of money for something that people have not been able to reproduce.
Ralph got "hets" from Dirty Joe but I don't think he has been able to reproduce him.
Jarod also has an IMG animal he has been working with.
 
I have heard conflicting stories about the presentation of IMG.
Ball pythons :ack2:
 
SPJ said:
The voodoo is a super melanistic animal. Straight out of the egg, they have that black wash over them.
Cool looking but a lot of money for something that people have not been able to reproduce.
Ralph got "hets" from Dirty Joe but I don't think he has been able to reproduce him.
Jarod also has an IMG animal he has been working with.
Click to expand...

That's right. The male was almost pitch black as a baby. I've heard that upon breeding them together theygive different shades but nothing predictable from a Mendelian standpoint; just a dinking project...:)

And yes Cat, you are right about "Dirty Joe" from Ralph. From the limited number of animals I've seen it seems the IMG is more pitch gray melanin all over the body than the voodoo. Hopefully in a year or so I'll know more about it. :)

Regards
 
HEy,

I thought I would throw in my two cents since my name was brought up. A few people have proved out thier img's, and several haven't-mostly becuase they saw "normal" babies and then gave up. Sort of like what happened with the pied and albinos for the first several breeders.

This trait is definately reproducable but it is not a simple recessive nor is it co-dom/incomplete dominant. There are all sorts of genetics that the reptile industry has avoided talking about becuase it confuses and scares investors away that are looking for a quick buck. Mainly becuase these genetics take time, and multiple breedings to achieve success. There are complex recessives, conditional alleles, upregulators/downregulators, nulls(natural knockouts), sex linked, etc etc. The trait we are looking at is definately ontogenic, and the phenotype may or may not be responding to factors throughout life.

I believe we are looking at conditional alleles here but more testing is needed. A few larger breeders have several to dozens of Img's, originating from multiple farms in Africa, and a few have been produced in house. IT is a daunting task to hold everyone back until 18 months and/or 600 plus grams particularly in todays market where if you have a male that doesn't turn you have now fed a $10 animal a $150 in food.

Some animals have marker traits as babies others don't, some babies are born dirty and get dirtier, others are normal then at roughly 600 grams and 18 months old they have a shed turn white and then either turn back normal or turn black.

Here are some pics of the more extreme examples of what I work with. One is a ball changing during ashed, then changed, and then of an aged female that has blacked out. It takes a year or more to go from bleached to blacked out.

Thanks
ben
 

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Interesting information, Ben! I'd love to learn more, really....it sounds like a fascinating undertaking for someone willing to take the time.
 
Looks like I was right last summer, Steve...we're going to be holding onto a bunch of BPs. I think I might recruit Alicia :)
 
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