How do we increase the integrity of the BOI?

[dumje]

Sash

I am a High School Science teacher myself. I can assure you I find the same things annoying that you do. But I will say...I have never been assesed points or warnings for what I have said on the BOI. I was insulted by what someone said and no points where given...it was a slander pure and simple. I reported it and nothing happened.

But...regardless of that...the BOI is a good thing the way it is now.

 

[Paul Fisher]

My vote was to leave it as it is, but I certainly wouldn't mind credit card verification or a small fee if that's the only way to keep this forum alive. You are providing a valuable service both to buyers and honest sellers. I was referred to this site as a reference by someone unknown to me when I was considering buying a het pied ball python from him. He had good comments, I bought from him. When I prove out his het, I'll post positive feedback, so far he's been great. Now I've checked out someone who originally produced a het I already owned and learned I was likely taken for over $1,000 on a fraudulent het. If I knew about this site 3 months earlier, it would have saved me from that mistake! I am now very active in the thread pertaining to that individual, and we have identified over 30 "hets" and their owners. I hope I'm not "beating a dead horse", but I'm trying to keep everbody involved and motivated so we can get this crook convicted. In my view, if he gets away with it there will be that many more doing the same next year. The very existence of this forum reduces the "bad guy" activity due to the awareness that people have a way to find them out and not only hurt their "business" but maybe even band together to get them convicted for their crimes. I hope to someday be selling a few pieds and hets and will strive to be known as a "good guy" on this forum.
Paul Fisher

 

[annmccabemiles]

it works

I think the BOI offers an invaluable service and it absolutely
works!

Leave it as is!

Ann McCabeMiles

 

[WebSlave]

i feel people who are in favor with webslave get away with a lot more then the average user. every person on this site should be equal from the kid buying his first leopard gecko to the bussiness man selling 20,000 ball python morphs.

No, there is no favoritism here. Certainly none that is intentional or recognized as such by what I see. But you need to bear in mind, that I will not always agree with you when you file a complaint. Nor might the moderators. I may not agree that what someone else has posted warrants warning points. Someone reporting a post does not automatically mean that points will be assessed because of that notification, nor should it. Otherwise, the notification system itself (along with the warning system) would be utilized in the feuds that erupt here quite often. We certainly don't need "warning point wars" here, now do we?

I have already told people that they need to grow up, take their person to person feuds to email and stop strutting and postering in public. I have told people that I will not personally (nor the moderators here) get into the middle of their feud. And I think those will not be the last times I will have to tell people such things.

With that being said, I appreciate what appears to be a solid vote of confidence in how the BOI is being run. It's not perfect, I know, but I need to do these sanity checks every once in a while. I think it would be extremely egotistical of me to just assume that those few people saying that the BOI is a joke should be just ignored without at least giving their words some serious consideration. Just because someone's opinion is in the minority does not mean it is wrong. It may be that no one else is telling me what I need to hear. Of course, that could still be the case, I presume.

So if I ask a question such as this thread has posed, I am asking for the truth. I can deal with that. I am not vindictive and will not ban someone for saying something unpopular or unpleasant. There are no penalties here for disagreeing with me. I could just be wrong, and I think I should know about it if that is the case.

As far as banning people that are liars and scammers, no, that is not my job, nor that of the moderators. We are responsible for responding to how people act while they are here. It is YOUR responsibility to learn about and recognize the liars and scammers and treat them accordingly. I have said it many times, and will likely say it many times more: I am not the judge here. Each and every one of you are for your own personal reasons and decisions. All I am doing is allowing you to be able to see the honest truth, if it is at all possible to expose.

 

[Wilomn]

"Oh Jesus Christ Rich, there you go YET AGAIN being reasonable and consise. Man oh man oh man......" he said as he walked off, shuffling his feet and wondering just where did that Rich guy get his smarts.

 

[dzoo]

I find the BOI a usefull tool.

1. The best change would be to keep the post "on topic" , every thread seems to either become a flame war between 2 people or veers totally off topic.

2. Make the title of the thread neutral. For example some threads are entitled "Joe Smith is a thieving liar" then it turns out through posts that Joe Smith is o.k. , yet anyone searching for Joe Smith might not read all the posts and just sees the title and gets the wrong impression. Does this make sense?i.e. Just title the thread "Joe Smith"

3. allow searches for words less than 4 letters long. It is difficult to search for companies like A & M reptile, VPI Pythons, SOS Rodents etc...........

Just my 2 cents.

Jon cheris

 

[Sunshines2day]

a response from a lurker

Rich,
Thank you for providing people like me an opportunity to read feedback about other's experience. I am only a newbie and green, but someday that could change. I have learned many things from reading the posts/responses and they contain valuable information. I learn how to conduct myself as well as how NOT to. Every post has to be taken with a grain of salt.

I especially like the way someone with a not so could response can correct it--in public. It's not so much about the deed done than it is on the appropriate methods of corrections when possible, in my opinion.

The people moaning and groaning are not the ones I'd be concerned about. I just don't read it. Their conduct goes to my mental list of don't think I'll have anything to do with that one.

Capping off or deleting those threads seems appropriate to me, but personally I think I learn more from those.

I have not found another tool as valuable as the BOI yet, and I would not want to see it go.

Linda Misch

 

[W.Wedeking]

Most important

I think it is very important to have the amount of diversity that we have on the BOI. We all learn from it, even if it is how NOT to behave.

I wouldn't want it to become a paid membership only because then we have to deal with "exclusivitey". We "herpnerds" are considered "weird" enough as it is, I don't think we need to go that direction.

Even if we did, it would not stop all of the problems, our problems would just be paying members who felt even more entitled to their irritating ways because they paid.

I also think that if you take a look at the people who are doing the complaining, "the BOI is a joke", "You are all in a cliche", etc... they have proven themselves to not exactly be reputable or respectable anyway (in most cases).

I think one of the things that could improve the site is more of a concentration on what is acceptable behavior, as opposed to what is unacceptable. What are all of our expectations on the BOI? I think we would all like for it to be "Professional" and have a sense of "fair play". We achieve that by making and enforcing rules.

So then, how do we stop abuse, misuse and circumventing fines. Well, I believe that some one mentioned, faxing or emailing a scanned copy of a legal form of ID.

You could make a seperate registration for the BOI. Make it read only to the general public. For those who wish to post, they must read the rules and pass a short quiz (to be sure they read the rules) and fax/email a valid form of ID.
I think this would still provide the "entertainment value" that some people are looking for as they can still read everything and keep the trouble makers and trolls away as well as having the added bennifit of just being too much trouble for those who aren't "serious" about the BOI to go through. People will not be able to register under more than one account and will not be able to circumvent any fines.

Do I think this will solve ALL the BOI problems? No, but it will keep the problems down to a dull roar for Rich.

 

[cyberfrog]

Some people may not take it seriously, but they should. I for one check here before I deal with anyone I don't know personally. As I see it the only people not worried about the BOI are people who are good enough to not have to worry about bad reviews, or ripoff artists trying to destroy credibility so their crimes can continue unhindered.
Adam

 

[Laura Fopiano]

I have read the BOI almost day since Dec. 2002. I consider myself a member although I don't post very much. And yes I am a member of the patheitc reptilenerd club myself!! I've been catching, collecting and loving reptiles for 35 years and this is the only place where I can come and read and feel at home. Maybe a disfuntional home, but home none the less.

We need to stick together and protect what we love!! Rich you have given us the opportunity to share our experience, passion, and vision for the future of all herper's. Thanx and keep it the way it is!!

 

[Mustangrde1]

Rich.

I have been to many forums lately and if the BOI is a Joke, then why is it the one thing i keep seeing pop up is KS is $%#^@%$ or other nice words and Fauna is is much better. This site in a nutshell would appear to be becoming fast the premier site for information and honesty at least from what ive been seeing.

Scott Bice

 

[ScottsReptiles]

I think that no matter which option you choose, you will still have the same problems as now.. so I guess the real question is.. Rich.. do you want to put in the time and effort to do more changes when there will still be lurkers, still be those only coming for entertainment and those even only coming to cause trouble?

 

[KathyLove]

Although I seldom post (usually don't have too much to add), I read the BOI pretty much everyday for all of the reasons that have been mentioned (info about who is good - or not - to deal with, checking for my own name and that of friends, and general entertainment as well).

I think it is great the way the truth has a way of coming out. I have seen some people accused who have vindicated themselves through evidence, logic, and professional behavior. And I have seen accusers sometimes come off as totally immature fools with whom I would never deal. Some have had very nice, professional websites that have impressed me enough that I would probably buy from them, if I had not seen their childish antics here on the BOI. It is really beyond me why any adult would act in such a way in public, especially if they are in business. But it helps to see the 'dark side' before you put your money or sanity at risk.

The only downside I see is the "beating the dead horse" and the personal flame wars that have already been stated many times. I wonder if it is possible (or even desirable) to try this solution:

Have moderators (you might need several) peruse the site as much as possible and edit severely to keep threads on topic and to avoid the two problems mentioned above. BUT - give the reader a button on each thread to choose - FULL UNEDITED version, or EDITED version. Then everybody could choose either the concise 'info' version, or if they have the time and are so inclined, the 'entertainment' version. You wouldn't have to worry about editing too severely because everything would be there to see, IF you want to. I think there is already a choice to delete posts by any person(s) you choose (I have not checked out those features, so am not sure), so this would just take it a step further.

Anyway, I basically like it the way it is and have voted thus.

Keep up the good work, Rich, uh, Webslave!

 

[cyberfrog]

Heya Kathy,
How are your amazons??
Adam

 

[Captive Bred Excellence]

Rich,

I think the BOI is a valueble resource for everyone who chooses to use it for it's intended purpose. Moderating any public forum to maintain a high level of integrity has to be a challenge. Because of the subect matter in the BOI I would think it would be even harder.

Additional moderators might help to keep posters adhering to the rules in a more timely manner. Charging a small fee to post would not bother me personaly but may keep others from posting which could have a negative effect if the impression is given that a certain % are not posting because of the fee. Ultimately, this could also keep "bad" dealers from being exposed.

Discontinuing the BOI would be a great loss as it just being here provides not only the obvious benifits of exposure "bad or good", it also gives a measure of comfort knowing you have some leverage if you need it.

Everything considered I think your doing a great job, that has to feel thankless at times. So my opinion is to leave it the way it is but add additional moderater(s) if possible.

Just the fact you had this poll adds to the integrity of the forum. Keep up the good work.

Tad Fitzgerald

 

[The BoidSmith]

Almost a decade ago there was a TV comercial (Apple computers?) that at the end stated..."you can agree with them, disagree with them, but one thing is for sure, you can't ignore them"...

The BOI has demonstrated time and again that people just can't ignore what is said in here. They can say they couldn't care less, that it's a joke, or that they will never post again...in spite of this most of them keep coming back. If they feel it's a joke is because they have read or heard what was said...thus they manifested their interest. I would be more concerned about those that have never heard of the site and thus they cannot benefit from it.

Sometime ago I thought individuals with a history of bad dealings or misbehaviour should be banned. Now I see the value of keeping them close, as they refresh our memory time and again.

In MHO the BOI serves a very important purpose and it's OK the way it is.

Kindly.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I like the BOI as is, but if I had too I would try to keep things on topic a little more.

 

[sychoram]

the warning point system should be a set system. A flame is a flame, an insult an insult etc... I earned my points by being a smart ass, I deserved what I got, and most likely will make that mistake again.

I don't know about the other small time newbies out there, but I don't deal with enough "unknown" people to see justifying paying for the use of this site. I don't even understand what an ISP Email account is, so I use my good ole AOL account, never had any problems accessing any where else.

Something the " old Timers" might remember is that they were newbies once and not every new poster on here came here to get stomped all over. R-E-S-P-E-C-T-, alot of us newbie posters are looking to you "old timers" for some guidance and alot of times all we find are insults, threats and personal vendettas.

Sorry about beating the dead horse here, but it moved so I kicked it

 

[Vince]

the warning point system should be a set system. A flame is a flame, an insult an insult etc... I earned my points by being a smart ass, I deserved what I got, and most likely will make that mistake again.

I don't know about the other small time newbies out there, but I don't deal with enough "unknown" people to see justifying paying for the use of this site. I don't even understand what an ISP Email account is, so I use my good ole AOL account, never had any problems accessing any where else.

Something the " old Timers" might remember is that they were newbies once and not every new poster on here came here to get stomped all over. R-E-S-P-E-C-T-, alot of us newbie posters are looking to you "old timers" for some guidance and alot of times all we find are insults, threats and personal vendettas.

Sorry about beating the dead horse here, but it moved so I kicked it

you said it all buddy, nice post.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

It is good as is. Sure it has its faults, but the pluses far outweigh the negatives or so I think. Leave it alone, let it be, need I say more, nod - nod, wink - wink, nuff said, know what I mean!



By the way, the day I have to pay to post on a forum is the day I leave the forum and the whole site it is on. I don't mind paying to advertise if I sell things, that is business. I don't mind paying to have pictures hosted (not just one pic posted in a forum either but lots hosted on a site). But to come to a site to chew the fat, or pound the keys... Well, unless you're going to be serving some darned fine ales or finely aged wine or really old whiskey, then you can count me out. As a wise movie Indian, in a John Wayne movie once said: "Whoa McClintock - good party - no more whiskey - Indian go home" (or something pretty close to that)!

All the best,
Glenn B