midnightline
Reptile Hobbyist
I'm considering buying an anery stripe cornsnake from this guy. Anyone have any experiences with him?
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Kat Hall
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How's Mike Panic?
- Thread starter midnightline
- Start date
TheScalyOnes
New member
This last week I have been mailing back and forth with Mike Panic about purchasing a pair of his anery hatchlings...
I inquired about shipping methods, and he stated he used USPS, and to ship to the West coast would be a two day trip.
I replied that since two days in this weather was risky, and shipping reptiles via USPS was illegal,
I would rather not ship that method but instead could send him my account number with Airborne to ship overnight.
I also asked if he had any references.
His next reply was to decline (albiet politely) to do business with me.
Take it for what it's worth...
-Heather Ciar
I inquired about shipping methods, and he stated he used USPS, and to ship to the West coast would be a two day trip.
I replied that since two days in this weather was risky, and shipping reptiles via USPS was illegal,
I would rather not ship that method but instead could send him my account number with Airborne to ship overnight.
I also asked if he had any references.
His next reply was to decline (albiet politely) to do business with me.
Take it for what it's worth...
-Heather Ciar
Darin Chappell
Senior Hillbilly Member
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Heather,
Do you still have the emails where this individual wanted to ship USPS and declined to do business when you asked for some referrences? I think that bit of information being posted here on the BOI would prove helpful for future questions regarding his practices.
Do you still have the emails where this individual wanted to ship USPS and declined to do business when you asked for some referrences? I think that bit of information being posted here on the BOI would prove helpful for future questions regarding his practices.
TheScalyOnes
New member
Yes, I have the emails, but I don't feel right posting private mail. Everyone has the right to decline a transaction, and give no specific reason. I'm not screaming "bad guy" but simply relating my experience, what little there was. {shrug}
Heather Ciar
Heather Ciar
We purchased some Pine Snakes from Mike Panic last year. They were well-represented, and when we received them, we found them to be healthy and beautiful, and we were very pleased with them. Mike was very professional about keeping in touch with us regarding the shipping of these animals. (This was right after 9/11 and he was shipping from NYC!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='
'> We wouldn't hesitate to do business with him again, and would highly recommend him to anyone.
'> We wouldn't hesitate to do business with him again, and would highly recommend him to anyone.franklinedwards60
New member
Isis Reptiles
What shipper did he use?
What shipper did he use?
jlepsch
New member
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TheScalyOnes @ Aug. 12 2002,23:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I replied that since two days in this weather was risky, and shipping reptiles via USPS was illegal...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
All reptiles? It was my understanding that it is only snakes (and protected species) that were prohibited.
All reptiles? It was my understanding that it is only snakes (and protected species) that were prohibited.
Mark Schmidtke
New member
Snakes are illegal to ship via usps and are specifically mentioned in the US postal services set of rules and regulations, I believe that the potental fines are quite high though I've never heard of anyone actually having to pay any fines.
For some reason however, lizards were left off the list of illegal animals. It was probably an oversight when they were writing up the rules, but regardless of the reason, lizards are perfectly legal to ship through the US postal service. I know a number of lizard breeders around this area that use the USPS all the time with very good results.
Quite some time ago I saw a link to the exact section of the postal services regulations that prohibit the shipping of snakes. If someone out there still has that link perhaps they will repost it? (It might even have been Rich Z that posted the link)
Mark
For some reason however, lizards were left off the list of illegal animals. It was probably an oversight when they were writing up the rules, but regardless of the reason, lizards are perfectly legal to ship through the US postal service. I know a number of lizard breeders around this area that use the USPS all the time with very good results.
Quite some time ago I saw a link to the exact section of the postal services regulations that prohibit the shipping of snakes. If someone out there still has that link perhaps they will repost it? (It might even have been Rich Z that posted the link)
Mark
TheScalyOnes
New member
I knew lizards could be sent via USPS previous to 9/11, but I wasn't sure if the laws had changed...snakes have always been illegal to ship with the Post Office.
The USPS publication is #52
The only one I could find online states its effective date to be July 1999.
The URL is http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm
The relevant sections are:
525.3 Reptiles
All snakes, turtles, and poisonous reptiles are nonmailable.
526 Mailable Live Animals
e. Other small harmless cold-blooded animals, 526.6 and Exhibit 526.6.
526.6 Small, Harmless, Cold-Blooded Animals
Small, harmless, cold-blooded animals, except for snakes, turtles, and turtle eggs, are mailable only when they meet certain requirements. For some examples, see Exhibit 526.6.
Exhibit 526.6
Requirements for Mailing Small, Harmless, Cold-Blooded Animals
(Except Snakes, Turtles, and Turtle Eggs)
General Requirements:
All animals in this group:
* Must be able to reach their destination in good condition in the normal transit time between the mailing and address points.
* Must not require any food, water, or attention during transport.
* Must not create sanitary problems.
Must not create obnoxious odors.
Specific Requirements by Animal:
Baby Alligators
Baby Caimans
Chameleons
Frogs
Lizards
Newts
Reptiles and Amphibians
Salamanders
* Tadpoles and Toads Animals must not exceed 20 inches in length.
* No additional requirements other than the applicable standards in DMM C022.
* Packaging must comply with DMM C022.3.10.
-Heather Ciar
The USPS publication is #52
The only one I could find online states its effective date to be July 1999.
The URL is http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm
The relevant sections are:
525.3 Reptiles
All snakes, turtles, and poisonous reptiles are nonmailable.
526 Mailable Live Animals
e. Other small harmless cold-blooded animals, 526.6 and Exhibit 526.6.
526.6 Small, Harmless, Cold-Blooded Animals
Small, harmless, cold-blooded animals, except for snakes, turtles, and turtle eggs, are mailable only when they meet certain requirements. For some examples, see Exhibit 526.6.
Exhibit 526.6
Requirements for Mailing Small, Harmless, Cold-Blooded Animals
(Except Snakes, Turtles, and Turtle Eggs)
General Requirements:
All animals in this group:
* Must be able to reach their destination in good condition in the normal transit time between the mailing and address points.
* Must not require any food, water, or attention during transport.
* Must not create sanitary problems.
Must not create obnoxious odors.
Specific Requirements by Animal:
Baby Alligators
Baby Caimans
Chameleons
Frogs
Lizards
Newts
Reptiles and Amphibians
Salamanders
* Tadpoles and Toads Animals must not exceed 20 inches in length.
* No additional requirements other than the applicable standards in DMM C022.
* Packaging must comply with DMM C022.3.10.
-Heather Ciar
Oops! I made a reply regarding Mike Panic and didn't sign my name! Sorry about that!
Isis Madec
Isis Madec
Mike Panic
Member
Well Heather, thats correct. I decided to decline to sell snakes. Thats my business. But since you made a public judgement, lets do this. You wanted the snakes, you wanted to supply the shipper, you wanted references, you reminded me of how illegal it is to ship snakes via USPS. By the way, its as illegal to ship them via Airborn express as well. Why ask for references, I can give any number of references to support me, even if I was a ripoff artist. You should have posted a BOI like the person above, to solicit an unbiased opinion of me. You just bad mouthed me, and we never even conducted business. Would you have asked for reference from the Big three? NO! I declined to sell you snakes not because I dont have them, or they are not every bit of what I said they are, but because you are a headach already and we never even went any further than discussing a price. Your post proves my point exactly. I have nothing to hide, I do NOT HAVE A DISHONEST BONE IN ME! If you really wanted to know about me, ask someone else, not me. Perhaps when you start breeding your own animals and selling them, you will see how difficult it can be to deal with potential buyers. I'm sorry about the scathing response, but you never even emailed me back to discuss my polite reasons for not selling you the snakes. For all you know, I could have been out of them. Ask around about me, I have nothing to hide. Thanks to those that responded, and will respond to support me.
TheScalyOnes
New member
I asked for references because there were no posts about you on the BOI. I DO breed and sell my own animals, and when someone asks for references I give them to them.
And, you had said you had eggs pipping, so I knew you were not out of hatchlings. AND, you were willing to ship your snakes in the middle of summer on what you TOLD me would be a 2-day trip, which is why I suggested Airborne instead.
When you cut off communication with your refusal email, it was quite obvious that no reply was necessary on my part.
You need to work on your reading comprehension...you are positive that my post is badmouthing you--you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Mine was a neutral "here's my experience" post.
If we were using the handy-dandy rating system Rich has been talking about, I would have given you a neutral score that would not improve nor destroy your rating.
------
I thought I'd post an IB message I got today from Mike, with my reply.
From: Mike Panic
Subject: How can you justify your position.......
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">on this? I'm proud of being the most honest guy out there. You just turn around and slam me(albiet politely)sound famliar. If your really interested in finding out about me, ask. Just because you're peeved about being declined a pair of snakes, you insert your opion onto others like that. Airborn express is illegal as well for snakes, and you know it! And if you don't know it, then perhaps you should finish your research. Thanks for the unfair slam. What comes around, goes around Mike.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Gee, when I tried to find out about you by asking for references, you declined to deal with me. A little hypocritical there...
Someone else asked about you, I answered with my experience. I didn't see it as a slam, as I said nothing nasty or untrue.
As far as Airborne beeing "illegal," when I arranged my account with Airborne, I told them that I was shipping snakes and lizards, and they have no problem with it. You need to do a little research yourself, sounds like--look up the meaning of the word "illegal." If Airborne chooses not to ship something, that doesn't make it ILLEGAL, it just makes it against their regulations. Because the Post Office is a government entity, shipping snakes with them IS illegal.
And I didn't insert my "opion" but rather the straight facts because gee, that's what the BOI is about. Catch a clue.
Oh, and "what comes around goes around"? Is that a threat?
Since this isn't email I feel perfectly fine with posting it...
-Heather Ciar
And, you had said you had eggs pipping, so I knew you were not out of hatchlings. AND, you were willing to ship your snakes in the middle of summer on what you TOLD me would be a 2-day trip, which is why I suggested Airborne instead.
When you cut off communication with your refusal email, it was quite obvious that no reply was necessary on my part.
You need to work on your reading comprehension...you are positive that my post is badmouthing you--you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Mine was a neutral "here's my experience" post.
If we were using the handy-dandy rating system Rich has been talking about, I would have given you a neutral score that would not improve nor destroy your rating.
------
I thought I'd post an IB message I got today from Mike, with my reply.
From: Mike Panic
Subject: How can you justify your position.......
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">on this? I'm proud of being the most honest guy out there. You just turn around and slam me(albiet politely)sound famliar. If your really interested in finding out about me, ask. Just because you're peeved about being declined a pair of snakes, you insert your opion onto others like that. Airborn express is illegal as well for snakes, and you know it! And if you don't know it, then perhaps you should finish your research. Thanks for the unfair slam. What comes around, goes around Mike.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Gee, when I tried to find out about you by asking for references, you declined to deal with me. A little hypocritical there...
Someone else asked about you, I answered with my experience. I didn't see it as a slam, as I said nothing nasty or untrue.
As far as Airborne beeing "illegal," when I arranged my account with Airborne, I told them that I was shipping snakes and lizards, and they have no problem with it. You need to do a little research yourself, sounds like--look up the meaning of the word "illegal." If Airborne chooses not to ship something, that doesn't make it ILLEGAL, it just makes it against their regulations. Because the Post Office is a government entity, shipping snakes with them IS illegal.
And I didn't insert my "opion" but rather the straight facts because gee, that's what the BOI is about. Catch a clue.
Oh, and "what comes around goes around"? Is that a threat?
Since this isn't email I feel perfectly fine with posting it...
-Heather Ciar
Mike Panic
Member
ok Heather Relax. A better approach would have been to not reply at all. I never utilized a refusal email, I wouldnt even know how to do that. I politley declined to sell snakes to you. Yes I had more hatchlings, I declined to sell them to you for the obvious reason of you being a little, well, strong. You asked how I ship,and I was completely honest with you. If you start reminding people of local laws, you may scare them off a little. I couldnt agree with you more about shipping with USPS. Its not the best. I think you should check again with Airborn express. I just set up a new account with them and was told that only turtles and lizards are shippable. Not snakes of any kind. In short Heather, I think that if your not comforatable with a person, you shouldnt do business with them. If you dont like the way a person ships, or the methods he uses, dont buy his snakes. But dont attempt to tarnish his image. Even though you may think your post was neutral, words like that can only hurt in the end. Believe me, If I sold you something and you were unhappy with the animals, I would do anything I could to make it right by you. And if I didnt make it right by you, or I was dishonest, by all means go to town on me. I shoot straight, and always tell the truth. I am proud of the way I do business, and the fact that I chose not to do it with you was a very good decision on my part. Was what come around goes around a threat? Of course not Heather, we're all adults here. Im sorry if you took it that way. Perhaps put yourself in my shoes. I bend over backwards to take care of my customers. And I pride my reputation. Next time just post a BOI on someone, dont ask them to supply their own references, its counter productive. Good Luck in the future with your animals.
HerpVenue
New member
Mike
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By the way, its as illegal to ship them via Airborn express as well. Why ask for references, I can give any number of references to support me, even if I was a ripoff artist. You should have posted a BOI like the person above, to solicit an unbiased opinion of me</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> It is Illegal to ship snakes with usps. It is against the law. It is a FEDERAL CRIME.
But shipping through airborne on the other hand...It is not illegal. It is just against company policy.
USPS is a federal entity and thus commiting a federal crime when you ship against their rules.
Airborne is a private entity and if you ship against their rules...it is just against their rules.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you really wanted to know about me, ask someone else, not me. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Gee isn't that why she asked for references?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Airborn express is illegal as well for snakes, and you know it! And if you don't know it, then perhaps you should finish your research.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Perhaps it is you who should finish your research.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would you have asked for reference from the Big three? NO! </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Surprise !!!! You are not the big three. You seem really offended that she asked for references. Then you go and tell her to "JUST ASK"
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ask around about me, I have nothing to hide. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Hence the reason for asking for references.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I declined to sell them to you for the obvious reason of you being a little, well, strong. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Kettle: Hello Mr. Pot you are black
get it?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok Heather Relax.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Heather's first post was her experience with you...Then you went to town with the TUDE...you relax
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dont ask them to supply their own references, its counter productive.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Let me give an example of how this can work... Jesse Underhill a known bad guy says he bought his animals from Jeff Ronne (The Boaphile). Then we e-mail Jeff Ronne...come to find out..he never sold a thing to Jesse. See how that works?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By the way, its as illegal to ship them via Airborn express as well. Why ask for references, I can give any number of references to support me, even if I was a ripoff artist. You should have posted a BOI like the person above, to solicit an unbiased opinion of me</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> It is Illegal to ship snakes with usps. It is against the law. It is a FEDERAL CRIME.
But shipping through airborne on the other hand...It is not illegal. It is just against company policy.
USPS is a federal entity and thus commiting a federal crime when you ship against their rules.
Airborne is a private entity and if you ship against their rules...it is just against their rules.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you really wanted to know about me, ask someone else, not me. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Gee isn't that why she asked for references?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Airborn express is illegal as well for snakes, and you know it! And if you don't know it, then perhaps you should finish your research.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Perhaps it is you who should finish your research.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would you have asked for reference from the Big three? NO! </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Surprise !!!! You are not the big three. You seem really offended that she asked for references. Then you go and tell her to "JUST ASK"
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ask around about me, I have nothing to hide. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Hence the reason for asking for references.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I declined to sell them to you for the obvious reason of you being a little, well, strong. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Kettle: Hello Mr. Pot you are black
get it?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok Heather Relax.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Heather's first post was her experience with you...Then you went to town with the TUDE...you relax
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dont ask them to supply their own references, its counter productive.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Let me give an example of how this can work... Jesse Underhill a known bad guy says he bought his animals from Jeff Ronne (The Boaphile). Then we e-mail Jeff Ronne...come to find out..he never sold a thing to Jesse. See how that works?
Mike Panic
Member
Richie, your right about Airborne ex. Not illegal, against company policy. I was not accurate when I said illegal. I meant against policy, which Heather still claims its perfectly fine. What else can I say. I chose not to sell this person snakes because of her desire to bring up legalities within the first sentence. Did I use a poor choice of words? Maybe. The bottom line is, I made a good decision. You guys win, good effort. Thanks Richie Luna
TheScalyOnes
New member
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I chose not to sell this person snakes because of her desire to bring up legalities within the first sentence. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The legalities issue was not brought up in the first sentence, but rather the 4th email, but whatever.
You were completely honest with me about your shipping, and your desire not to do business with me, and I was completely honest here on the BOI.
I am not insisting that Airborne allows snake shipping, either--when I set up the account over a year ago, I made sure to notify them that I was shipping snakes and lizards and the occasional turtle (I do rescue as well, and I never know what will be coming my way). The main office okayed it, and every shipment is marked clearly with the contents...and the local counter person approves it every time. Whether they have changed their policy for new customers, I don't know.
Anyway, once again, I AM NOT NOR WAS I EVER OUT TO TARNISH YOUR IMAGE.
How you deal with public issues like this affects your image more than anything I could conceivably say.
Heather Ciar
The legalities issue was not brought up in the first sentence, but rather the 4th email, but whatever.
You were completely honest with me about your shipping, and your desire not to do business with me, and I was completely honest here on the BOI.
I am not insisting that Airborne allows snake shipping, either--when I set up the account over a year ago, I made sure to notify them that I was shipping snakes and lizards and the occasional turtle (I do rescue as well, and I never know what will be coming my way). The main office okayed it, and every shipment is marked clearly with the contents...and the local counter person approves it every time. Whether they have changed their policy for new customers, I don't know.
Anyway, once again, I AM NOT NOR WAS I EVER OUT TO TARNISH YOUR IMAGE.
How you deal with public issues like this affects your image more than anything I could conceivably say.
Heather Ciar
HerpVenue
New member
Sorry I was so hard mike....
Anyway... You have every right to refuse a sale. We as sellers gotta protect ourselves at almost all costs.
I honestly see your point......sorry for being so harsh last night..
heather
you made a good point.... you were just typing YOUR experience with him. We as buyers gotta make sure we don't get ripped off at almost all cost as well.
I think you two are good decent people who were both scared to deal with each other. Can't blame either of you. There are guys out there like Jesse Underhill etc etc etc who just want to take your money and scam you.
I believe you two can take a chance on each other and find out you both can win and not get cheated from each other.....good luck to both of you.
Sorry for butting in............it seems I can't help myself
Anyway... You have every right to refuse a sale. We as sellers gotta protect ourselves at almost all costs.
I honestly see your point......sorry for being so harsh last night..
heather
you made a good point.... you were just typing YOUR experience with him. We as buyers gotta make sure we don't get ripped off at almost all cost as well.
I think you two are good decent people who were both scared to deal with each other. Can't blame either of you. There are guys out there like Jesse Underhill etc etc etc who just want to take your money and scam you.
I believe you two can take a chance on each other and find out you both can win and not get cheated from each other.....good luck to both of you.
Sorry for butting in............it seems I can't help myself
Mike Panic
Member
Richie, you have every right to butt in. Your brought some interesting points to the table. My main point is the following; The minute someone starts telling me that something I may or may not be doing is illegal.......No Sale. I have nothing to hide, nor have I ever. Integrity is more important than any $50.00 snake in my book. Shipping is not been easy for any of us. I shipped a pair of snakes last week, and they arrived three days later. Thank god, with the Superior Enterprise boxes, and an icepack, the snakes did very well. I switched over to an AIRBORN EX account and hopefully my problems will be over. I have seen many posts about breeders who I know are dishonest, or horrendous even. The bottom line for me is, unless I have had a personal dealing with them, keep my opinion to myself. Two emails, one of which I politley declined to sell some snakes does not constitute a deal, business, or anything other than an inquiry about some snakes. Lets face it, the way it hit the board was, "I asked Mike Panic for references, and he never got back to me",SOOOOOO "take it for what its worth!" Meaning, HE CANT BE TRUSTED! Thats not how I interpreted it, its how it reads. Thats all I have a problem with. So Richie & Heather try to see it from my side as well. I appreciate your opinions, but know this, I am the most honest guy out there. And declining to sell a snake to someone should notcount as bad business. Thanks and have a good season. Mike
Darin Chappell
Senior Hillbilly Member
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Mike sent me a message, which I read before I saw the news additions to this thread. He asked me how it is that I ship my snakes. I told him that I have received snakes via FedEx and Airborne, but that I have only shipped FedEx.
However, I want to address this "illegal" versus "against company policy" issue. If the McDonald's employee tells me to pull forward to the first window, and I go to the second instead, that's a violation of company policy. If the speed limit on a road is 50 and I drive 60, that's a violation of the law. One is acceptable in my estimation and the other is not. Some area managers of FedEx and Airborne have continued to allow people to ship their snakes through those services, and this is fine. However, shipping USPS is a federal crime, and I won't be party to it. Now, that may upset some people, but I think it's my option to have that ethic in my business dealings.
If my asking Heather to post the emails she got from Mike upset him or her . . . I'm sorry, but that's what the BOI is for. I don't know Heather, and she was saying that Mike was wanting to ship in a way that illegal. To me, the burden was upon her to offer the proof of that allegation when she made it. She declined to make those emails available, and I did not make any judgments about Mike because of that decision. As far as I know, Mike does not ship illegally, but if it turns out he does, I would not do business with him.
However, I want to address this "illegal" versus "against company policy" issue. If the McDonald's employee tells me to pull forward to the first window, and I go to the second instead, that's a violation of company policy. If the speed limit on a road is 50 and I drive 60, that's a violation of the law. One is acceptable in my estimation and the other is not. Some area managers of FedEx and Airborne have continued to allow people to ship their snakes through those services, and this is fine. However, shipping USPS is a federal crime, and I won't be party to it. Now, that may upset some people, but I think it's my option to have that ethic in my business dealings.
If my asking Heather to post the emails she got from Mike upset him or her . . . I'm sorry, but that's what the BOI is for. I don't know Heather, and she was saying that Mike was wanting to ship in a way that illegal. To me, the burden was upon her to offer the proof of that allegation when she made it. She declined to make those emails available, and I did not make any judgments about Mike because of that decision. As far as I know, Mike does not ship illegally, but if it turns out he does, I would not do business with him.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My main point is the following; The minute someone starts telling me that something I may or may not be doing is illegal.......No Sale.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Why? Many people, including quite a few counter clerks at the USPS, don't know that shipping snakes through the mail is illegal. I'd view it as more of a good thing if someone told me I was doing something that could get me into trouble, unless the language used was somehow outright abusive. Which begs the question: Was it what was said or how it was said that you found offensive?
Why? Many people, including quite a few counter clerks at the USPS, don't know that shipping snakes through the mail is illegal. I'd view it as more of a good thing if someone told me I was doing something that could get me into trouble, unless the language used was somehow outright abusive. Which begs the question: Was it what was said or how it was said that you found offensive?