Inquiry Info On Adam Kuhn Reptiles?

[ophidile]

Nah, this doesn't strike me as a stunt or trying to "steal" someone's customer...

Or if you ARE trying to steal all the defensive, demanding customers you're welcome to them XD

 

[joepythons]

yeah..it's all me..why not post the items in quarantine too?

My god i posted a link to the removed thread in quarantine and even explained how someone could get access to it.Please practice what you preach READ MY POSTS

 

[joepythons]

Now just to prove that it is little debbie thats full of it tonight here is a link to the posts she thinks were removed.One thing though you have to be a member on bpnet and ask a moderator for access to the quarantine room.Here is my proof, http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82625

So you dont get confused Deb here it is again.

 

[joepythons]

honor

Deb please read this and think about it BEFORE you reply.There have been breeders that have given others snakes or a complete setups but never post a word about it online.Then there are those that give away a free snake and post it all over the net.Of course there is a difference between the two here.I will explain so its easy to understand.The first one does not brag about it to everyone because its not needed.The second one is what they call a ATTENTION WHORE!!! Which one do you think you are???

 

[jayefbe]

Apparently the bp.net thread is down, but Deb, you clearly made a post that ended with a phrase along the lines of "I guess we're learning who NOT to buy from". It's just hyperbolic exaggerated nonsense. You had absolutely no reason to make those comments...and yet you did anyways. I entered this thread NOT thinking that the buyer OR the seller did anything wrong. That is, until the kid thought it was a good idea to post a bad guy thread and another breeder decided that it was a good idea to jump to conclusions.

It's fine to have opinions, but you have to back up those opinions with facts. THAT is how you prove them right. Being too stubborn and defensive to admit when someone else has a good point is NOT the way to do it. It only shows how immature you are.

 

[hhmoore]

Deborah,
I can understand the buyer not wanting to wait a month for his replacement snake (I think I even noted that as an issue in my previous post). But, not having communicated with the seller, I don't know if there was a reason he didn't offer other options. This is not any sort of defense of the seller - simply keeping an open mind about the situation because only the buyer's side of the story has been heard.
I'll also grant you that your gesture of sending that person the snake was probably pure in motive - in other words, not intended as a "PR stunt" - but even good deeds can take on a new look, when a different light is cast upon them. If your gift had to be commented on, it would have been better if the word came from the recipient, IMO (it would have been different if the original animal had been provided by you...again, IMO. In that case, you posting about sending him one would have been nothing more than clarifying that you had addressed the issue in an appropriate manner). I think the part that sat wrong with me was that you seemed to be trying to shut down the discussion and calling things resolved (not a quote, for several reasons...including my lack of inclination to search for the applicable posts, and your wish).
I will admit that anything in "quarantine" over there has not been, and will not be, read by me. I could be missing big parts of the story that could shift my opinion in either direction. There is also the fact that you have had the benefit(?) of private communication with that buyer, and might know a bit more about the situation than some of us (read: me).

Again, it's great that the person has a new snake, and commendable that you provided it - but the dead snake still reeks of customer error to me...AND the resultant fuss seems to have shifted a good deal of attention away from the original transaction.
<waking up now, and bringing things into slightly better focus>
It would have been nice if Adam Kuhn had offered a comment, or even if the original complainant had posted here....as it is, most of this inquiry is just people talking about a thread from a different forum....and neither person involved with the transaction has graced this thread with his (her?) presence. No offense to BP.net, but I don't really see the point in housing the spillover from a mess that took place there.

 

[RJK890]

Adam's Side Of The Story:

Here are the emails that Joe sent to me:

--- On Wed, 1/14/09, adam kuhn wrote:

From: adam kuhn
Subject: Re: buyer saying you scammed him
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:49 PM


Joe - thanks for all your help and your posts on bp.net. I spent way to long reading this stuff and am already late for a date. The ladies are definately more important and now I have some frustration to drink off. As if life isn't hard enough without idiots. I will be back to post but I don't currently own a computer so my time on line is occasional. I do feel sense of community about reptile hobbyists, I just chose not to spend much time online. I spend time at shows meeting people. I know I don't have to defend myself to you and I don't really care to do it online either. On my way out I plan on calling the guy who started this. talk to you later - Adam

--- On Wed, 1/14/09, joe haggard wrote:

From: joe haggard
Subject: Re: buyer saying you scammed him
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 7:03 PM


Here is the direct link from fauna. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124640

--- On Wed, 1/14/09, adam kuhn wrote:

From: adam kuhn
Subject: Re: buyer saying you scammed him
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 5:51 PM


thank you for the heads up. I registered on the site, but it says the thread is closed, anyway I can still post a response? I don't spend time on forums. I'm a local breeder who does local shows. I care very much about the quality of what I breed. This person has it all wrong. If I sounded passive to him, its because I didn't believe him. Yet I was willing to replace the snake and admission to the show if he only came to the next show. everything he posted is different than what he told me on the phone. He said the ball python died on the car ride home. He never said anything about settnig it up or spraying it. I spent a long time at the show answering his questions. I usually do not ship animals. Never did he say he would pay for shipping. I certainly wasn't. He never expressed any problem with coming to the next show. In years of doing shows, I've only had a couple times where something dies and I offer to replace with something equal or more value, no questions. Even though in his post I suspect he killed the snake. I still would replace it. I guess you can't please everyone. thanks again - Adam

--- On Mon, 1/12/09, joe haggard wrote:

From: joe haggard
Subject: buyer saying you scammed him
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 12:44 PM


Sir i thought something should be brought to your attention.I am a member at www.ball-pythons.net, and we have someone stating you scammed him.The members and myself feel you should be allowed to give your side.I give you a direct link to the thread, http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82405

 

[hhmoore]

What the heck is it with everybody posting emails from people that don't want to post here? You aren't even posting your personal correspondence with Adam, RJK...that was an exchange between Adam and Joe (I'm guessing that Joe knew better than to go there?).
I understand that Adam doesn't own a computer, but he manages to email and register on BP.net...If he has something to say, he is welcome to speak for himself.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Deborah,
I can understand the buyer not wanting to wait a month for his replacement snake (I think I even noted that as an issue in my previous post). But, not having communicated with the seller, I don't know if there was a reason he didn't offer other options. This is not any sort of defense of the seller - simply keeping an open mind about the situation because only the buyer's side of the story has been heard.
I'll also grant you that your gesture of sending that person the snake was probably pure in motive - in other words, not intended as a "PR stunt" - but even good deeds can take on a new look, when a different light is cast upon them. If your gift had to be commented on, it would have been better if the word came from the recipient, IMO (it would have been different if the original animal had been provided by you...again, IMO. In that case, you posting about sending him one would have been nothing more than clarifying that you had addressed the issue in an appropriate manner). I think the part that sat wrong with me was that you seemed to be trying to shut down the discussion and calling things resolved (not a quote, for several reasons...including my lack of inclination to search for the applicable posts, and your wish).
I will admit that anything in "quarantine" over there has not been, and will not be, read by me. I could be missing big parts of the story that could shift my opinion in either direction. There is also the fact that you have had the benefit(?) of private communication with that buyer, and might know a bit more about the situation than some of us (read: me).

Again, it's great that the person has a new snake, and commendable that you provided it - but the dead snake still reeks of customer error to me...AND the resultant fuss seems to have shifted a good deal of attention away from the original transaction.
<waking up now, and bringing things into slightly better focus>
It would have been nice if Adam Kuhn had offered a comment, or even if the original complainant had posted here....as it is, most of this inquiry is just people talking about a thread from a different forum....and neither person involved with the transaction has graced this thread with his (her?) presence. No offense to BP.net, but I don't really see the point in housing the spillover from a mess that took place there.

Thanks, next time I'll know how to word such things, can't just say something..have to word and reword, vise and revise. write and rewrite and you STILL gonna have some piece of crap trying to crawl out of your anus. I said something about me...what I did. It wasn't an insult to anyone else so perhaps (actually No) I didn't take into consideration the viewpoint that some would have taken. Perhaps they wish that THEY had animals standing around to give..perhaps they were trying to rack up "good boy" points by brown-nosing? Who knows..they know their own motivation better than I do..but it is suspect to say the least.

I thought I was telling them WHY he didn't need to come back and keep up on the thread, he came back after I said that, I think...so obviously I wasn't trying to shut down anything and there was no big secret between the two of us....but I admit that I don't recall my exact words and I am sick to death of the subject and do not want to reread them. I have had to keep up with this crap just in case someone had a valid question or the seller had come on.....and dealing with the two forum idiots that have decided to take the "Jedi" twins place has left a sour taste in my mouth and a sick feeling in my belly.

I am aware that things can take on a different light depending on who's viewing the post...depending on WHO's viewing the post and their motivation. People that want to know the truth, ask questions, and unless there is a reasonable doubt or reason to disbelieve the explanation, they accept the explanation.

Nasty, little tootless pitbulls just keep gumming, worrying at a bone, hoping some meat may fall off.

 

[deborahbroadus]

What the heck is it with everybody posting emails from people that don't want to post here? You aren't even posting your personal correspondence with Adam, RJK...that was an exchange between Adam and Joe (I'm guessing that Joe knew better than to go there?).
I understand that Adam doesn't own a computer, but he manages to email and register on BP.net...If he has something to say, he is welcome to speak for himself.

Yeah, these are our honest, honorable, truthful defenders of the downtrodden.

 

[Tuxus]

It's fine to have opinions, but you have to back up those opinions with facts. THAT is how you prove them right. Being too stubborn and defensive to admit when someone else has a good point is NOT the way to do it. It only shows how immature you are.

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

if however the person later provides proof it is not just an opinion. Arguing linguistics is semantics though and this thread is one i think I'll avoid stating my opinion in.

 

[Deborah Stewart]

Apparently the bp.net thread is down

Actually the BP.net thread is not down, it was only locked momentarily to allow us to move part of the thread to QT

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82405

 

[joepythons]

What the heck is it with everybody posting emails from people that don't want to post here? You aren't even posting your personal correspondence with Adam, RJK...that was an exchange between Adam and Joe (I'm guessing that Joe knew better than to go there?).
I understand that Adam doesn't own a computer, but he manages to email and register on BP.net...If he has something to say, he is welcome to speak for himself.

I would have posted them but i was unable to get things copied correctly .Thats why i offered to share them with Deb and ask if she could post them here.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

if however the person later provides proof it is not just an opinion. Arguing linguistics is semantics though and this thread is one i think I'll avoid stating my opinion in.

That is true, I think in this case I have also misused the word "facts."

Opinions are usually formed from a belief, based on something learned, observed, told, experienced. In this case, these would be your internal facts. So I would say show me WHY you hold such and such an opinion...(that's me).

Final thought...but I'll probably end up typing more too later...

What I don't understand is why I can't have an opinion on ANOTHER forum without being hounded and dragged here. Having bits and pieces of the entire post brought over here. What's the point of having two different forums if you can be brought up on charges for having a difference of opinion about how another breeder handles anything?

accused of stealing customers...(lord, really???) I didn't make a dime.

On here was an inquiry nothing more and nothing less.

I thought this was an Inquiry or a place to post bad guy threads..having a different opinion and asking a question and supporting a buyer doesn't make ME a bad guy.

 

[joepythons]

lol

and dealing with the two forum idiots that have decided to take the "Jedi" twins place has left a sour taste in my mouth and a sick feeling in my belly.

Deb this quote says everything about your maturity level.No matter what you say or refer to others the facts are still the same.You and the kid were both in the wrong and the majority of members from both sites agree

 

[jayefbe]

Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

if however the person later provides proof it is not just an opinion. Arguing linguistics is semantics though and this thread is one i think I'll avoid stating my opinion in.

True, I mentioned backing up an opinion with facts because in an earlier post Deb mentioned something along the lines of "proving an opinion".

 

[jayefbe]

That is true, I think in this case I have also misused the word "facts."

Opinions are usually formed from a belief, based on something learned, observed, told, experienced. In this case, these would be your internal facts. So I would say show me WHY you hold such and such an opinion...(that's me).

Final thought...but I'll probably end up typing more too later...

What I don't understand is why I can't have an opinion on ANOTHER forum without being hounded and dragged here. Having bits and pieces of the entire post brought over here. What's the point of having two different forums if you can be brought up on charges for having a difference of opinion about how another breeder handles anything?

accused of stealing customers...(lord, really???) I didn't make a dime.

On here was an inquiry nothing more and nothing less.

I thought this was an Inquiry or a place to post bad guy threads..having a different opinion and asking a question and supporting a buyer doesn't make ME a bad guy.

How about you show us WHY you thought Adam Kuhn deserved having his name dragged through the mud? Why does he deserve any type of negative publicity over a transaction that he tried to make good?

Why didn't you try to contact Adam yourself if you thought he had done something unjust?

Like it or not, believe it or not, right now there is a giant "buyer beware" thread on bp.net unjustly implicating him, the existence of the thread is largely due to you. Do you not see your posts in that thread as unfairly inflammatory towards another ball python breeder?

 

[RJK890]

Quote HHMoore:
What the heck is it with everybody posting emails from people that don't want to post here? You aren't even posting your personal correspondence with Adam, RJK...that was an exchange between Adam and Joe (I'm guessing that Joe knew better than to go there?).
I understand that Adam doesn't own a computer, but he manages to email and register on BP.net...If he has something to say, he is welcome to speak for himself.

With all due respect Harald, I was not going to post the emails that Joe sent me until he asked me to in post #56.

Quote JoePythons: (post #56
Ok i forwarded the email from Adam to RJK890 and if he could post it here for all to see please.I would but i might mess something up lol.

He even said please. How many times does someone send emails to another member to post because they don't know how?

Quote DeborahBroadus:
What I don't understand is why I can't have an opinion on ANOTHER forum without being hounded and dragged here.

Hounded and dragged? You are the one who brought it here.

 

[joepythons]

With all due respect Harald, I was not going to post the emails that Joe sent me until he asked me to in post #56.
He even said please. How many times does someone send emails to another member to post because they don't know how?

Hounded and dragged? You are the one who brought it here.

Thanks again Robert .This is not the first time i forwarded an email to another member here because i could not get it to post.Not one member had a problem with it either so i dont see a problem this time.

 

[RJK890]

Quote JoePythons:
Thanks again Robert .This is not the first time i forwarded an email to another member here because i could not get it to post. Not one member had a problem with it either so i dont see a problem this time.

No problem. I have seen it done a number of times. It is not like I posted something like, "I heard that Adam had told Joe..."

Other than a few people posting positive feedback, or personal reference's for Adam, this bogus inquiry has been all about the thread on the other site.
I think the emails from Adam with his side of the story were appropriate to post until he can come here himself and chime in. Sorry if some people do not agree with me.
I know the kid that St. Debbie gave the free snake to, did not post his feedback on this site, or in this thread, but the link to it was posted and it has been the main topic so far.
It would be nice if Adam and the kid could come here and post the true details, or at least their own versions of the transaction. It would also be cool if the outcome of that transaction were posted in here after the show next month. That way we know if Adam follows through with his offer and replaces the animal, Does not keep his word, or the kid does not go to the show and take Adam up on his offer.

At this time I would not hesitate to do business with Adam Kuhn. He seems to have positive feedback, and have good Customer Service.