Info on substrate sterilization..... please read...

[jallenfl]

This information comes from myself and a friend of mine that have spent some time in the horticulture business and this has proven to be very important to us.

Often I log on to these forums and read up on knowledge and until now have done nothing but learn and now I have knowledge to spread.

Throughout my experience I have come into many harmful organisms in the soil I have used to grow my produce and flowers. Many of these organisms attack the plant starting with the roots and so on spread form here to the plant causing harmful and much unwanted results. Now before you quit reading thinking this is a thread on plants and you think i am stupid or crazy let me elaborate.

Many times I see questions about a female dragon that is gravid and ready to lay eggs. To my astonishment I find people often give the best advice they can and it is really nothing more than unknowledgeable people trying to help when they should remain silent.(Breeders included)

First off this has nothing to do with the container used nor the heat but it does however deal with the substrate used to lay the eggs. Most people purchase a mixture of dirt from their local hardware store I.E. Lowes, Homedepot and the like.
These dirt mixtures are by far the worst thing anyone could do if not using the method in which I am about to explain in full detail. When purchasing these soils there is no guarantee in where the dirt comes from nor a method of regulation for the contents. Many of these substrates are a mixture of sand and dirt along with many other things that are not listed and so on.

Many organisms in the dirt are lowering the lifespan of your pets and breeding dragons without you ever knowing it.

Their are numerous amounts of harmful bacteria and they only thrive in the moist humid environment of the bag they are in while left in the sun to only speed the process. Now many soils contain beneficial organisms also which will naturally combat these harmful species and prevail. Unfortunately they usually must be added to the soil while the harmful ones are already thriving.

Do you know what is in your soil % wise?
Here is a method find a large enough glass jar to hold around 1lb soil when it is half full that you have purchased. Add the soil to the jar and then add enough distilled water to fill the jar with about half filled with the soil. tighten the lid to the jar and shake vigorously for about 1 minute. Once this is done allow the jar to sit on an even surface for about an hour or even longer if you like. After this period the soil should have separated and will now show you the contents on different levels. Often I find most soils are around 60-70% dirt containing a certain % of sand and crustacean material (shells) along with this numerous seeds will float and you will even see dead bugs on the surface water.

Now you are probably going wow never thought of this and these are just the mixtures as you would need a microscope to see the true harmful stuff (Bacteria).
Now how do I insure that the soil is 100% healthy for my egg baring female and what will give the best scenario for healthy off-spring.

This next method will seem pretty easy given you actually care to establish the best environment possible and actually only takes a few minutes and will do wonders in the long run. After all this typing the method is simple please microwave your soil for at least 3 minutes depending on the amount of soil used at one time this may take several rotations to complete as I don't know of a jumbo microwave. The sessions in the microwave will guarantee 100% sterile soil. As females lay their eggs a certain % of bodily fluids is also exchanged the bacteria are hungry and when its all said and done the eggs are directly exposed to this environment. Not exactly the best start for something lacking natural immunities for the first few weeks of their new life. Caution you may want to use a old microwave and place it outside or in the garage as the soil will smell while cooking. I hope this helps and I hope I have changed many peoples methods as for the breeders this is a simple step to insure you are on top of your game. Have you ever had hatchlings die a few days after hatching. (Breeders you cant say no if you do your lying) BACTERIA.........

 

[jallenfl]

self bump

 

[red ink]

Very interesting info mate, but breeding in soil is a very outdated method. No breeder with knowledge beyond basic husbandry would even contemplate using soil as a substrate in an incubator. Vermiciulite or Perlite have been a stable substrate in the industry for years. Nowadays even that is becoming obsolete with SIM incubation.

Great info but i doubt it would be useful to a lot of established and knowledgable breeders out there. For one you can't accurately control the humidity when using soil as an incubator substrate, which has been known for decades (hence vermiciulite or perlite is used). Without proper humidity don't bother worrying about the bacteria as the eggs will die anyway, either from too much or too little.

 

[sallen87]

I believe this information is in reference to lay boxes. As many would say they regularly use soil for the egg laying purposes.

 

[dragonluver83]

Where did you come from and why are you not back there yet?

This information comes from myself and a friend of mine that have spent some time in the horticulture business and this has proven to be very important to us.

Are you and your friend certified in this field? Or just a personal experience like everyone else simply posted?

Often I log on to these forums and read up on knowledge and until now have done nothing but learn and now I have knowledge to spread.

After i have read this, i know why you dont post. Probly should stay a reader!

Throughout my experience I have come into many harmful organisms in the soil I have used to grow my produce and flowers..

So Again, just your experience? Or did you go to school to learn what you have posted?

Many of these organisms attack the plant starting with the roots and so on spread form here to the plant causing harmful and much unwanted results.

So in your experience or degree how has this effected the dragons and what proof do you have to back up your theory?

Many times I see questions about a female dragon that is gravid and ready to lay eggs. To my astonishment I find people often give the best advice they can and it is really nothing more than unknowledgeable people trying to help when they should remain silent.(Breeders included)

Are you a dragon breeder or have ever bred dragons?

How does this "bacteria" in the soil effect the dragon?

People are simply posting there "person experience" with how they care for there animals. Which sounds like your doing, posting your personal experience with your "soil samples". The people that told me how to care for my animals have been doing there job for 15 20 years. How un-knowledgeable are they? How long have you been playing in dirt?

First off this has nothing to do with the container used nor the heat but it does however deal with the substrate used to lay the eggs. Most people purchase a mixture of dirt from their local hardware store I.E. Lowes, Homedepot and the like.These dirt mixtures are by far the worst thing anyone could do if not using the method in which I am about to explain in full detail. When purchasing these soils there is no guarantee in where the dirt comes from nor a method of regulation for the contents. Many of these substrates are a mixture of sand and dirt along with many other things that are not listed and so on.

I will agree to an extent. Most hardware stores like lowes and home depot Sell actual "potting soil" that has fertilizers in it.(which you failed to point out) That could affect the females digging in it (not sure never tested or been tested) an will more than likely kill the eggs that are sitting on them.

Many organisms in the dirt are lowering the lifespan of your pets and breeding dragons without you ever knowing it.

Is this just a thought or have you proven this?

Their are numerous amounts of harmful bacteria and they only thrive in the moist humid environment of the bag they are in while left in the sun to only speed the process. Now many soils contain beneficial organisms also which will naturally combat these harmful species and prevail. Unfortunately they usually must be added to the soil while the harmful ones are already thriving.

How about the bacteria that builds up in the area where the females lay?(something else you failed to mention) Whats the percentage there or parts per million? Do you even know?

Do you know what is in your soil % wise?

No, i dont. Do you? I see you saying "percentage wise". But not actually putting anything on paper.

This next method will seem pretty easy given you actually care to establish the best environment possible and actually only takes a few minutes and will do wonders in the long run. After all this typing the method is simple please microwave your soil for at least 3 minutes depending on the amount of soil used at one time this may take several rotations to complete as I don't know of a jumbo microwave. The sessions in the microwave will guarantee 100% sterile soil. As females lay their eggs a certain % of bodily fluids is also exchanged the bacteria are hungry and when its all said and done the eggs are directly exposed to this environment. Not exactly the best start for something lacking natural immunities for the first few weeks of their new life. Caution you may want to use a old microwave and place it outside or in the garage as the soil will smell while cooking. I hope this helps and I hope I have changed many peoples methods as for the breeders this is a simple step to insure you are on top of your game. Have you ever had hatchlings die a few days after hatching. (Breeders you cant say no if you do your lying) BACTERIA.........

So tell me something. You say put the soil in the microwave. How much? How do you know 3 minutes is long enough? Wouldnt i need to put a certain amount of soil in the microwave so i know it was ALL bacteria free? Would it even kill all the bacteria in the soil or just bring down the parts per million?
Yea i have had a baby that hasnt made it. But if it was bacteria wouldnt if effect way more than A baby here and there wouldnt it be more consistent? What about the clutches i have the are 100% hatch rate. I guess the bacteria levels werent that high in that part of the soil, huh?
ALSO, what about the female dragons that lay a clutch in the wild, is there life span shortened since there laying a clutch in the wild where the soil under the surface hasnt been heated up by the sun or in a microwave?

I didnt find this interested in the least. YOU came on here talking some kinda talk but not really backing up ONE word you said.You probly made everyone dumber by reading this. There is NO proof, you have given NO percentage levels of bacteria in different substrates. I.E. sand vermiculite/perulite forrest bedding. (also when your talking about soil samples it "parts per million" is the term used. I have worked with the guys doing soil samples when i was a concrete worker.) You basically havent convinced me of ANYTHING you said. You dont even sound educated on anything you said either. YOu probly should of said a SHORT paragraph about this in the other thread you were referring to, instead of going outta line saying people shouldnt have posted what they did. But hey who am i just another breeder that doesnt microwave his soil, right?

 

[dragonluver83]

correction

OR let me go this way. Maybe you should have posted the sterilization on the soil in its own thread. but uh, left out 80% of the other stuff you typed. Better???

 

[spyder79]

OR let me go this way. Maybe you should have posted the sterilization on the soil in its own thread. but uh, left out 80% of the other stuff you typed. Better???

this person typed this same information up on .org and it was met with a similar response. On top of the fact that it is written in a rude and condescending way.

JallenFl you should have just kept this "info" to yourself.

 

[dragonluver83]

JallenFl you should have just kept this "info" to yourself.

Brian i dont even care that he shared what he did. even though i still wouldnt ever put my soil in the microwave.
But it was how he shared what he did in the manner that he did it in.
An i certainly dont doubt that he got the same response on another site. But i still would like some answers to my questions from the garden boy.

 

[dragonluver83]

self bump

There isnt really a need to bump this b.s. without info this isnt a classified ad.

 

[sallen87]

I think I will respond to this.

Are you and your friend certified in this field? Or just a personal experience like everyone else simply posted?

Certified? Do you understand what you are asking?

You can not become certified in horticulture or the like. Adversely, you can receive a degree in the study of horticulture and similar fields.

So, no, neither of us are certified in horticulture. But, I do happen to be currently enrolled at the University of Florida. Majoring in biology. Dedicating myself to botany (the scientific study of plant life and development) and herpetology (the scientific study of amphibians and reptiles).

So while I am referring to my personal experiences, believe me, my knowledge is rooted in pure science. As ALL the "book smarts" in the world, do not make up for 1 mS (since you want to talk ppm, microsiemen is the actual internationally accepted scientific measurement of fluid conductivity) of experience and common sense.

After i have read this, i know why you dont post. Probly should stay a reader!

We used to remain silent as these are the responses that uneducated, ignorant people like to post. Although, I enjoy hearing your perspective. As I now know, that I would never purchase an animal from you. Lest I intended, simply to kill and dissect the poor creature that had to suffer under disingenuous, lazy care.

So Again, just your experience? Or did you go to school to learn what you have posted?

As I have already approached this (why would you even ask the question twice?) I will simply elaborate. Through numerous experiments and the knowledge of several professionals (combining for more than 200yrs of experience in the fields of horticulture and agriculture) we have seen the adverse effects of untreated/unsterilized soils on more than 200 different types of plant species. Causing any number of a plethora of negative impacts on the yield, nutritional value, vigor, mold resistance, temperature tolerance, etc. These were done in comparison to, the same species of plants being grown in a sterilized green house environment. I promise sterilized soils in the green house achieved far superior results.

So in your experience or degree how has this effected the dragons and what proof do you have to back up your theory?

What theory are you referring too? The scientifically proven, factual knowledge that there are many types of bacteria and other organisms, beneficial and detrimental, that inhabit all of the planet's soil?

Or, once again, the scientifically proven, factual knowledge, that some of these organisms cause harm to reptiles of all varieties? Coccidia, hook worms, etc. would all be examples of organisms that cause harm. If you would like, I will cite the specific pathogenic bacterial species that commonly cause harm to animals and humans if you wish, though I feel it is unnecessary. That is because, only a completely ignorant person would even dare to deny their existence in nature (where do you think we originally discovered them!?)

Where do you think these things live? How do you think the initial infections happen in animals? Of course the parasites and things need to reside inside of an animal to prosper, but trust me, most do not just immediately die when outside of the host organisms body.

Are you a dragon breeder or have ever bred dragons?

That we are, and have been since we were 15 and 18 respectively, we simply do it for a hobby though. Not to make lots of money or claim some sort of fame. We wholesale all of our animals to our local herp shops. As a passion rarely should need a qualifying reason for it's endeavors. It is the joy of the animals we are after, not the fiscal rewards.

How does this "bacteria" in the soil effect the dragon?

How do any of the other pathogenic organisms affect the dragons? You ask such a broad question that there is no way to respond. What specific bacterium would you like me to elaborate on? As there are literally billions of species.

But simply put, the same way that any parasitic/pathogenic organism may. By reducing the life span, vigor, reproductive rate, fertility levels, nutrient absorption, hydration, etc. Basically, they can do whatever they choose to. Depending on the strain of bacterium respectively.

People are simply posting there "person experience" with how they care for there animals. Which sounds like your doing, posting your personal experience with your "soil samples". The people that told me how to care for my animals have been doing there job for 15 20 years. How un-knowledgeable are they? How long have you been playing in dirt?

I would not argue that we simply have the only way of doing things. But in my opinion, since we have taken the animal from an ecosystem in which their natural drives and instincts prevail, it is our moral obligation to provide the best environment for them. So if there are ten billion things that can improve their circumstance, we must do ten billion and one things. You are not allowing the animal to make its own decisions so you must take care to protect them from the dangers of your environment.

I do not consider them un-knowledgeable. I just consider them, and most certainly YOU, ignorant of the fact that they are allowing a situation to exist that can cause irreparable harm.

I have been "playing in dirt" since I was 5 years old. My family has always seen to the education of myself and my brother in all fields and aspects. They believe that something worth doing, is something worth doing to 110% of your abilities and knowledge.

I will agree to an extent. Most hardware stores like lowes and home depot Sell actual "potting soil" that has fertilizers in it.(which you failed to point out) That could affect the females digging in it (not sure never tested or been tested) an will more than likely kill the eggs that are sitting on them.

I am sorry for not being a complete encyclopedia on this forum. With the American craze about organics and the wide spread knowledge about chemical fertilizers, I would not have thought it was necessary to point out the dangers of fertilized soil.

WOW! You will admit that fertilizers can cause harm to your animal. But are so intolerant of the possibility that bacteria could also do so. Again ignorance prevails!

Is this just a thought or have you proven this?

As I would not even considering risking the health of my animals. There is no strict experiment that I have run to determine the exact impacts. But again, ignorance to the possibility is no excuse to me. You would deny that pathogenic organisms can harm your animals, as well as deny that they exist in the soil. Lord help those who suffer under your guidance.

Since few take the steps we do, is the 10 year life expectancy of most dragons not evidence? I have several dragons right now that are 12 or more years old. Showing no health issues whatsoever, how many do you have that live to this point or longer? Sure they may no longer be reproductive, but that has more to do with their genetic viability than anything else.

How about the bacteria that builds up in the area where the females lay?(something else you failed to mention) Whats the percentage there or parts per million? Do you even know?

No, i dont. Do you? I see you saying "percentage wise". But not actually putting anything on paper.

The thread was about soil quality. If you are not already regularly disinfecting your husbandry and the like, I do not even wish to acknowledge your existence. As day to day, you rob good intelligent people of valuable oxygen.

As the specific soil mixture you are employing is certainly different from mine. Hell, even if we use the same brand, the controls are not in place by large corporations to ensure the composition. So, I do not see the point in listing specific levels of contamination. If you think I am ridiculous, go spend $200 on a school grade microscope and watch in amazement.

So tell me something. You say put the soil in the microwave. How much? How do you know 3 minutes is long enough? Wouldnt i need to put a certain amount of soil in the microwave so i know it was ALL bacteria free? Would it even kill all the bacteria in the soil or just bring down the parts per million?
Yea i have had a baby that hasnt made it. But if it was bacteria wouldnt if effect way more than A baby here and there wouldnt it be more consistent? What about the clutches i have the are 100% hatch rate. I guess the bacteria levels werent that high in that part of the soil, huh?
ALSO, what about the female dragons that lay a clutch in the wild, is there life span shortened since there laying a clutch in the wild where the soil under the surface hasnt been heated up by the sun or in a microwave?

If you could read!

depending on the amount of soil used at one time

Just continue to be ignorant please. As I enjoy knowing that I take every possible step and measure to ensure that I am doing the best that I can by my animals. As we already chose to play GOD by removing them from their natural ecosystem.
I am simply acting out my role as GOD, by removing everything else from the environment I created for them.

 

[deborahbroadus]

IMO, I would listen to them, I am always seeking new knowledge and better ways to accomplish goals.

Listening does not hurt, trying their ideas against older established ideas MAY be profitable.

 

[jallenfl]

this person typed this same information up on .org and it was met with a similar response. On top of the fact that it is written in a rude and condescending way.

JallenFl you should have just kept this "info" to yourself.[/QUOTE

Why would I keep such informative information from people who should be informed. I only intended to help those who need help. I can say respectfully that I am glad I do not own any of your dragons.
You have proven that there is no way to help your closed mind.
Just wish you could close your mouth and not type.

Do you really not disinfect your laying medium?
I surely hope not but it does seem this is the case....
I even bet you just let it sit until it is needed for use again which is by far more unsanitary than just shoving there own feces in your dragons mouths. So to speak.

I can not see myself investing my hard earned money into something you obviously care so little about. I do however wish that people do more research and avoid breeders who care as little as the 2 of you obviously do.

I would appreciate if you keep your unintelligent chatter to yourself and avoid any threads I post as you will surely confuse anyone trying to learn.

I have read many post from you and if I followed any of your nonsense I am sure my dragons would be in as poor health as some of yours may be.

It is very simple to bash someone that is going to cause harm to your business. In an aspect that you are only in it for the money and not the love of these creatures as we apparently are by taking measures to the extreme but I can however understand your natural laziness. I currently make a gross salary of around $82,000.00 this year in the aspect that I am not making this money from my breeding but from a real job. Breeding for me is not a hobby it is a full time passion. I could care less about profiteering from this as you are seemingly intrigued by.

I do however wish that anyone that is looking to purchase a dragon please contact me to talk about the strenuous care I take of my dragons and how they experience no harm from the lack of care you seem to have.

Further more, I really have zero patience for people like you. I have read many of your post that you have made bashing people asking questions that are pertinent to them. That is just simply your lack of true knowledge in this breeding trade. I hope sincerely that people question your abilities to produce genetically sound specimens from this day forward. God help your dragons as you play GOD with there health I hope you sleep tonight understanding the harm you are doing and the benefit you would have from trying something new and monitoring your own results.

Both of you clearly have no business doing what you are doing and it truly makes me want to puke up my testicles.

You should really think before you type, or for that matter try and think before you actually think.

You talk about a condescending way I word things and unfortunately for you, I will continue to be this way against unintelligent and most deffinately unknowledgeable people like you.

DragonLuver:

I dont even know how to respond to the dumb questions you asked.
It has given me a migraine just trying to lower myself to your level.

I do however hope this has opened your eyes as there are truly great breeders out there that show genuine care in what they do and I am in contact with these individuals on a daily basis discussing new techniques on how to do things rather than remaining stone age like you have chosen to be. I would have loved to have never had to point out your lack of caring but after the way you attacked my post I feel responsible to point out the fact that I would also only use your dragons for scientific research to better the species and better inform myself of what I strive so hard to avoid.

Please keep your eye out for my future work as it will blow your mind with the things I am working up in my Lab. Yes I said Lab, as in a place in which studies are done to perform scientific research. I seem to have a natural care in my bones you lack. Don't bash me again unless your knowledge is sound and not misleading in any manner. My level of discipline in what I strive for obviously far surpasses your ability to even breath.

Sincerely,
Justin R. Allen
SGT. U.S.M.C. 5 Years Recon, 3 Combat Tours, 1Afghanistan2003, 2Iraq2004/2005 Fallujah, Operations Africa200*. Please respect what you cant begin to even understand.
Alumni University of Florida 2011 Biology

 

[spyder79]

I do utterly enjoy how you make your own little incorrect conclusions about who or what people are (ps this is a hobby for me plain and simple my main source of income comes from being in the military which funds my hobby, though I have never been so blatant as to list out my military credentials as you did, what did you expect that to mean anything to me? I certainly hope not).

You have no right to speak towards people the way you do nor does anyone honestly respect your "method" of "informing" people. You talk about how I am yet you are the one that was publicly scolded on bd.org for the way you conducted yourself, not me.

Do not make conclusions about how I keep my animals unless you come to my home and view my setups yourself.

and since you felt it important to talk about degrees and military background.

Brian Preachers
US Navy, currently active duty, starting 6th year, assigned to II Marine Expeditionary Force for 4 years, 2 combat tours Iraq (areas to include Fallujah, Al Asad, Saul Sinjar, downtown Baghdad, Iraqi/Syrian border)
Bachelors degree Human Resources Management, currently working on Masters in Health Care Administration

YOu have a wonderful day

 

[jallenfl]

Very interesting info mate, but breeding in soil is a very outdated method. No breeder with knowledge beyond basic husbandry would even contemplate using soil as a substrate in an incubator. Vermiciulite or Perlite have been a stable substrate in the industry for years. Nowadays even that is becoming obsolete with SIM incubation.

Great info but i doubt it would be useful to a lot of established and knowledgable breeders out there. For one you can't accurately control the humidity when using soil as an incubator substrate, which has been known for decades (hence vermiciulite or perlite is used). Without proper humidity don't bother worrying about the bacteria as the eggs will die anyway, either from too much or too little.

Sorry, if I mislead you to what I meant. But thank you for your support I truly believe people can go the distance if they try as I do. You are correct however about soil in incubation it really is not suitable but can be managed if you have all day to watch your incubator and eggs for concurring problems that will arise.

I have done my own studies and unfortunately I can not argue that it is just not the most suitable way.
I use this method for my incubation medium also and discard after each use. I also discard my soil after each use. I use this method to insure the sterility of my substrate before its use.

Have a good one,
J

 

[dragonluver83]

So in your experience or degree how has this effected the dragons and what proof do you have to back up your theory?

You can not become certified in horticulture or the like. Adversely, you can receive a degree in the study of horticulture and similar fields.

Can you read?

So, no, neither of us are certified in horticulture.

No surprise it shows in your conversation.

But, I do happen to be currently enrolled at the University of Florida.

So that makes you a student instead of a teacher. While there is bacteria in and on everything animals and people come in contact with. Its high amounts of unsafe bacteria before things become unsanitary.

We used to remain silent as these are the responses that uneducated, ignorant people like to post. Although, I enjoy hearing your perspective. As I now know, that I would never purchase an animal from you. Lest I intended, simply to kill and dissect the poor creature that had to suffer under disingenuous, lazy care.

You ignorance is why you have a negative response. If you want to educate learn how to teach, junior.
I agree i think you should NEVER buy from me for nothing. Pets, breeders, or experiments.

Through numerous experiments and the knowledge of several professionals (combining for more than 200yrs of experience in the fields of horticulture and agriculture) we have seen the adverse effects of untreated/unsterilized soils on more than 200 different types of plant species.

Oh 200 years on plants and bacteria okay nice. How about Bearded dragons?

Causing any number of a plethora of negative impacts on the yield, nutritional value, vigor, mold resistance, temperature tolerance, etc. These were done in comparison to, the same species of plants being grown in a sterilized green house environment. I promise sterilized soils in the green house achieved far superior results.

Plants and animals react differently in different situations. your comparing apples and oranges. Get on the same page.

What theory are you referring too? The scientifically proven, factual knowledge that there are many types of bacteria and other organisms, beneficial and detrimental, that inhabit all of the planet's soil?

So in your experience or degree how has this effected the dragons and what proof do you have to back up your theory?

Thats a simple question in front of you how did you miss what theory i am referring to?

Or, once again, the scientifically proven, factual knowledge, that some of these organisms cause harm to reptiles of all varieties? Coccidia, hook worms, etc.

Yes which all have a direct live cycle inside the aniaml. Dirt is not a direct life cycle. and if you have a female dragon that has these problems they should not be breeding.

How do any of the other pathogenic organisms affect the dragons? You ask such a broad question that there is no way to respond. What specific bacterium would you like me to elaborate on? As there are literally billions of species.

Let me simplify for the smart guy. When you go and pick up a bag of vermiculite (non fertilized) what are the bacteria's that would effect the dragons? OR there babies?

I do not consider them un-knowledgeable. I just consider them, and most certainly YOU, ignorant of the fact that they are allowing a situation to exist that can cause irreparable harm.

I am sorry that i am unknowledgeable and ignorant because i dont put my soil in the microwave. I dont know whats wrong with me

I have been "playing in dirt" since I was 5 years old. My family has always seen to the education of myself and my brother in all fields and aspects. They believe that something worth doing, is something worth doing to 110% of your abilities and knowledge.

Well dirt Mcgirt anything worth doing is worth doing right

I am sorry for not being a complete encyclopedia on this forum. With the American craze about organics and the wide spread knowledge about chemical fertilizers, I would not have thought it was necessary to point out the dangers of fertilized soil..

There is such a thing to have proper husbandry skills and overboard with some things. I frequently change the soil in the lay bin. I havent had a problem with any of the soils i used bacteria wise in the last 6 years of breeding and using different substrates. Change your substrate, proper husbandry skills nothing new.

WOW! You will admit that fertilizers can cause harm to your animal. But are so intolerant of the possibility that bacteria could also do so. Again ignorance prevails!

Yea, man made fertilizers are harmful. to animals eggs and even people if exposed to enough of it. So yea with HIGH levels of bacteria there can be problems.
Did the record just skip?

As I would not even considering risking the health of my animals. There is no strict experiment that I have run to determine the exact impacts. But again, ignorance to the possibility is no excuse to me. You would deny that pathogenic organisms can harm your animals, as well as deny that they exist in the soil. Lord help those who suffer under your guidance.

Glad your being cautious. Glad your sharing some kind of info on bacteria. But you could of left out all the ignorance.

Since few take the steps we do, is the 10 year life expectancy of most dragons not evidence? I have several dragons right now that are 12 or more years old. Showing no health issues whatsoever, how many do you have that live to this point or longer? Sure they may no longer be reproductive, but that has more to do with their genetic viability than anything else.

The oldest dragon i have is 8 years old. My first Male dragon. I acquired him threw a pet store. Only to find out he has M.b.d. So I have a male dragon with M.B.D. So That is 8 years old and no health problems other than the M.B.D.

The thread was about soil quality. If you are not already regularly disinfecting your husbandry and the like, I do not even wish to acknowledge your existence. As day to day, you rob good intelligent people of valuable oxygen.

Yes it was about soil quality. An you know know what, If you would of posted:

I would like to add to the soil quailty used in the dragon bins, and blah blah blah.
I would of never opened my mouth in a negative way. I love learning new things. but when you get on here trashing others(should not have typed anything) is along the lines of what you said. Why do i or anyone else want to respond positively? Like i have already said learn how to teach to where others will listen and value what you say. There also wasnt nothing said about soil care on the lay bin thread. just a lay bin for dragons.

Just continue to be ignorant please. As I enjoy knowing that I take every possible step and measure to ensure that I am doing the best that I can by my animals.

An if you are you get from me in that aspect But i dont have any problems with my adults or babies.

As we already chose to play GOD by removing them from their natural ecosystem.
I am simply acting out my role as GOD, by removing everything else from the environment I created for them.

We play god in many ways. in ways we should not and ways that are some what ok. But dont try and play Gods role.

In the End I Think you may have some good points, but you and your friend brother are a couple of that need to learn how to talk to people or inform people on info with acting like a

Re-read what you guys wrote. You dont see any ignorance or attitude in your post?You must really think you guys are something special huh?
The only thing you really had to add was heat up the soil for three minutes to cleanse it. You really didnt need all the other b.s. for what little info you supplied.
Even at that whats wrong with boiling water then soaking the soil in it then strain it out ofter 5-10 minutes?

While you in school you may want to take a class on your communication skills.

 

[jallenfl]

I do utterly enjoy how you make your own little incorrect conclusions about who or what people are (ps this is a hobby for me plain and simple my main source of income comes from being in the military which funds my hobby, though I have never been so blatant as to list out my military credentials as you did, what did you expect that to mean anything to me? I certainly hope not).

You have no right to speak towards people the way you do nor does anyone honestly respect your "method" of "informing" people. You talk about how I am yet you are the one that was publicly scolded on bd.org for the way you conducted yourself, not me.

Do not make conclusions about how I keep my animals unless you come to my home and view my setups yourself.

and since you felt it important to talk about degrees and military background.

Brian Preachers
US Navy, currently active duty, starting 6th year, assigned to II Marine Expeditionary Force for 4 years, 2 combat tours Iraq (areas to include Fallujah, Al Asad, Saul Sinjar, downtown Baghdad, Iraqi/Syrian border)
Bachelors degree Human Resources Management, currently working on Masters in Health Care Administration

YOu have a wonderful day

I have respect for you Brian you had the courage to grab your balls when you needed to. Unfortunate you are very contradicting as your sig on BD.ORG brags you are in the navy. "Squid"

As for being scolded on BD.ORG I have requested they cancel my subscription as I have little patience for there over emotional reactions to debate. (they can really cry up a storm about everything there and I would rec. any newb avoid that site if they prefer to have debate in which they can learn something. Especially your postings which steer in the wrong direction on a basis.) They tend to cry about anything that is discussed. I also believe that is why all the great breeders out there also avoid that site. You on the other hand tend to frequent that site all the time. Which is subsequently wasted. You truly are a negative person towards most people that post never trying to educate anyone just demotivating there natural interest.

You also appear to be over emotional! I can say I may not word things in the most acceptable manner. (Your opinion) it is welcomed. However you would be the last person I would turn to for advice if I were a newbie. If someone cannot read my posting and understand my wording in an adult manner I prefer they not post anything. (take that advice it is meant for you.) I only listed my past experiences so you could show respect and understand my dedication for everything I do in life. You really are sounding a little more dumb then I am sure you are. Stop,,, it makes you look very stupid. As for your experiences I can only thank god I had a different DOC. than you as I would have surely perished in combat if i relied on you to save my life. It is implemented in the way you obviously care to help others here.

Peace, J

 

[dragonluver83]

IMO, I would listen to them, I am always seeking new knowledge and better ways to accomplish goals.

Listening does not hurt, trying their ideas against older established ideas MAY be profitable.

Oh OH so now you want to talk to me. You did see me at harve de grace like i thought you said you were ( i did meet Rich though) But now i should listen to you

Anyway, Debra nothing is wrong with new fresh info for care on your animals. But did you not read what they typed? Could you not see the ignorance in what they typed? Incase you didnt know there referring to me and some others that posted in my thread.
I have no problem with new info. But they couldnt just start a new thread about bacteria in the soil of the lay bin. Then give us some info, Then give us how to care for the bacteria levels in the soil? The way they put the info has made me turn my nose up to anything they really have to say. I know my proper husbandry skills. My thread wasnt about care for the soil it was about the lay bin itself since there were so many people asking questions. An after a few more replys i probly wont look at this thread again.

 

[spyder79]

I can only thank god I had a different DOC. than you as I would have surely perished in combat if i relied on you to save my life. It is implemented in the way you obviously care to help others here.

Really is that what you think. There is obviously some disconnect in your brain as you have no idea who I am or what I have gone through. You are definitely a PRIOR MARINE, and do not deserve to be able to put yourself in the same class as the men and women that I have the distinct pleasure of serving with.

You are a useless waist of space on this site and I honestly feel all you are doing is wanting to start arguments and draw attention to yourself as the victim of the (as you call us) ignorant breeders that are attacking your opinions.

The day and age that you want to talk to any of the Marines that I deployed with about what type of person I am and wether or not I was a integral part of their team you bring your happy rear to Camp Lejeune, I will meet you at the gate and take you to my previous SgtMaj, 1stSgt, CO, XO, Fire Team leader, Gunner of my Vic or whoever else you want to talk to you insolent puke.

 

[jallenfl]

Can you read?


No surprise it shows in your conversation.


So that makes you a student instead of a teacher. While there is bacteria in and on everything animals and people come in contact with. Its high amounts of unsafe bacteria before things become unsanitary.



You ignorance is why you have a negative response. If you want to educate learn how to teach, junior.
I agree i think you should NEVER buy from me for nothing. Pets, breeders, or experiments.



Oh 200 years on plants and bacteria okay nice. How about Bearded dragons?


Plants and animals react differently in different situations. your comparing apples and oranges. Get on the same page.





Thats a simple question in front of you how did you miss what theory i am referring to?



Yes which all have a direct live cycle inside the aniaml. Dirt is not a direct life cycle. and if you have a female dragon that has these problems they should not be breeding.




Let me simplify for the smart guy. When you go and pick up a bag of vermiculite (non fertilized) what are the bacteria's that would effect the dragons? OR there babies?



I am sorry that i am unknowledgeable and ignorant because i dont put my soil in the microwave. I dont know whats wrong with me

I have been "playing in dirt" since I was 5 years old. My family has always seen to the education of myself and my brother in all fields and aspects. They believe that something worth doing, is something worth doing to 110% of your abilities and knowledge.

Well dirt Mcgirt anything worth doing is worth doing right



There is such a thing to have proper husbandry skills and overboard with some things. I frequently change the soil in the lay bin. I havent had a problem with any of the soils i used bacteria wise in the last 6 years of breeding and using different substrates. Change your substrate, proper husbandry skills nothing new.



Yea, man made fertilizers are harmful. to animals eggs and even people if exposed to enough of it. So yea with HIGH levels of bacteria there can be problems.
Did the record just skip?




Glad your being cautious. Glad your sharing some kind of info on bacteria. But you could of left out all the ignorance.



The oldest dragon i have is 8 years old. My first Male dragon. I acquired him threw a pet store. Only to find out he has M.b.d. So I have a male dragon with M.B.D. So That is 8 years old and no health problems other than the M.B.D.



Yes it was about soil quality. An you know know what, If you would of posted:

I would like to add to the soil quailty used in the dragon bins, and blah blah blah.
I would of never opened my mouth in a negative way. I love learning new things. but when you get on here trashing others(should not have typed anything) is along the lines of what you said. Why do i or anyone else want to respond positively? Like i have already said learn how to teach to where others will listen and value what you say. There also wasnt nothing said about soil care on the lay bin thread. just a lay bin for dragons.




An if you are you get from me in that aspect But i dont have any problems with my adults or babies.


We play god in many ways. in ways we should not and ways that are some what ok. But dont try and play Gods role.

In the End I Think you may have some good points, but you and your friend brother are a couple of that need to learn how to talk to people or inform people on info with acting like a

Re-read what you guys wrote. You dont see any ignorance or attitude in your post?You must really think you guys are something special huh?
The only thing you really had to add was heat up the soil for three minutes to cleanse it. You really didnt need all the other b.s. for what little info you supplied.
Even at that whats wrong with boiling water then soaking the soil in it then strain it out ofter 5-10 minutes?

While you in school you may want to take a class on your communication skills.

Likewise friend as you truly have terrible skills in communication also but how should one respond to the remarkably terrible nonsense you are stating. I can honestly say I may need help with my communication but I have no doubt you need a lesson in reading as my original post simply stated one line that may have come off as a little brash and the statements you made were brash on every other line you type. Hypocritical people that are closed minded must be talk to in the manner I have with you to make an impact. It has worked and my point is now made.

 

[jallenfl]

Oh OH so now you want to talk to me. You did see me at harve de grace like i thought you said you were ( i did meet Rich though) But now i should listen to you

Anyway, Debra nothing is wrong with new fresh info for care on your animals. But did you not read what they typed? Could you not see the ignorance in what they typed? Incase you didnt know there referring to me and some others that posted in my thread.
I have no problem with new info. But they couldnt just start a new thread about bacteria in the soil of the lay bin. Then give us some info, Then give us how to care for the bacteria levels in the soil? The way they put the info has made me turn my nose up to anything they really have to say. I know my proper husbandry skills. My thread wasnt about care for the soil it was about the lay bin itself since there were so many people asking questions. An after a few more replys i probly wont look at this thread again.

Sorry didnt read that thread at all and rather glad I did not so you shoudl stop jumping to conclusions it will only make you look like and ass.