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(info)( renaissance reptiles/ nerd)

I was not referencing the accusations about the crypto and mold issue in Nerd's collection being in the legal documentations, I was thinking more along the lines of the statements made that snakes were disappearing and ended up in Nerd's possession. Though it's likely that reference to husbandry problems were noted in the legal documents if it was brought up in court for reasons some of the animals are gone.

Legal documents would be proof of what did or did not happen. It would not be hearsay at all.

I think perhaps, because you are friends with Gail, you need to step back and stay out of this until it's cleared up. I don't think you're going to help the situation by defending her with nothing more then your opinion.
 
Anything pertaining to the divorce is long over - it's a done deal - to the satisfactory of the courts. Dragging out court papers for something that is irrelevant is, well, irrelevant. You wouldn't want your dirty divorce splashed all over the BOI for no reason would you? I mean there is no allegation of wrong doing, no proof, no injured party and after Nigels attempt to steal the snakes everything pertaining to them was done so through the court. So if it's not about NERD and people getting sick snakes (in which case anything Gail might have said would be hearsay) then explain to me what value would there be at airing someone else's dirty laundry in a public forum? Or why this is even a BOI issue?
 
ToshaMc said:
Anything pertaining to the divorce is long over - it's a done deal - to the satisfactory of the courts. Dragging out court papers for something that is irrelevant is, well, irrelevant. You wouldn't want your dirty divorce splashed all over the BOI for no reason would you? I mean there is no allegation of wrong doing, no proof, no injured party and after Nigels attempt to steal the snakes everything pertaining to them was done so through the court. So if it's not about NERD and people getting sick snakes (in which case anything Gail might have said would be hearsay) then explain to me what value would there be at airing someone else's dirty laundry in a public forum? Or why this is even a BOI issue?


I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second.
Nigel is making allegations of wrong doing.... he says proof is what was said during the divorce.


Hearsay, just as Nigels claims are hearsay
 
Nigel is making allegations of wrong doing.... he says proof is what was said during the divorce.

The problem is that Nigel hasn't said a thing here. I agree with Tosha, that the premise of this thread is based upon hearsay. Let Nigel start a thread if he thinks it is warranted.
 
Since nobody has yet added it, here is the current text of the page on the website linked by the thread originator relating to NERD- I'm tossing it in here simply because, if the link dies none of this makes any sense.

The portion of text in quotations below is the text found on the linked site. That said, I personally have no way of knowing if it was posted by the person indicated or what, if any, validity any of it has. I am not commenting on the contents, merely making sure they are not lost so that the comments which have been made in this thread on this site retain whatever validity they may have had.

Caveat: The following information was added to this site by Nigel.

Renaissance Reptiles was started by myself and my wife, Gail, in the late 1990s/early 2000s. As the business grew, our marriage - which had not been going well for many years - became increasingly acrimonious. In the summer of 2005, things began to worsen at an increasing pace.

Until August of 2005, we had never kept any kind of inventory of the collection; if I wanted to know what we had, I would look to see what was in the racks. In August of 2005, I was looking at the racks when I noticed that a significant number of tubs that should have held high-end baby ball pythons were, in fact, empty. Suspicious about the number of empty tubs, I spent several hours conducting a thorough inventory of the collection. I conducted a similar inventory one week later, and again one week after that. The result of these inventories was that in that two-week period, baby ball pythons worth about $25,000 had "disappeared". Subsequent investigation led me to discover that Gail had taken these animals and moved them to a facility owned by Kevin McCurley (hereinafter "Kevin") of New England Reptile Distributors (NERD).

Around that time, someone who I considered to be an extremely close friend informed me of the following:
- Gail and Kevin had gone to see a divorce attorney together;
- Gail and Kevin had concocted a plan to get me and my son out of the house for a weekend, at which time they planned to remove the entire Renaissance Reptiles collection from its location in MA, and move it to the NERD facility in NH.

In August of 2005, I filed for divorce from Gail.

In September of 2005, the Probate Court issued an order directing the following:
- How the business was to be run;
- How the business bills were to be paid;
- How the household bills were to be paid;
- How the business profits were to be divided.

In October of 2005, Gail obtained a restraining order against me, and had me removed from the house. At this point, it is probably worth mentioning that the house was solely in my name, and both mortgages on the house were solely in my name. Despite the court order dated September, 2005, once I was removed from the house, Gail stopped paying all of the bills: the mortgages, the utilities, everything. Additionally, despite the fact that the business had been very profitable, Gail began claiming that the business was now losing nearly $4,000 per month.

In November of 2005, in an effort to generate income in order to pay the business and household bills, I attempted to find a buyer for some of the business inventory. A friend, who I had done business with on several occasions, said he had a buyer for some of the animals, which I turned over to him. Within hours, Gail, Kevin, and Kara (from NERD) began claiming that these animals had been "stolen". According to their claims, many of the "stolen" animals belonged to NERD; this was a lie. Kingsnake was apparently informed that the animals had been "stolen", and proceeded to publish a "Stolen Snake Alert" across its website. These animals were never stolen; they were marital property (which, incidentally, I paid for), and were subject to the terms of the court order dated September, 2005. Perhaps realizing they would not generate much support from the ball python community if they told the truth that "Nigel has marital property that Gail and NERD want to get their hands on", Gail and NERD chose to perpetrate a lie and deceive the ball python community by claiming these animals were stolen. At the time, court orders restricting what we were and were not to do prevented me from commenting on this fraudulent representation; Gail was bound by the same court orders, but she chose to ignore them.

I could easily spend hours detailing the events that subsequently occurred, but for the purposes of this update, some of the more significant events are listed below.

In November of 2005, the "stolen" animals were subsequently handed over to Gail by the person who was holding them.

Gail continued to refuse to pay any of the bills associated with the house. In July of 2006, the house was sold at foreclosure auction.

In July of 2006, my attorney conducted a deposition of Kevin. Under oath, Kevin testified to the following:
- In the late spring or summer of 2005, Kevin went to a divorce attorney with Gail;
- In May or June of 2006, Gail paid Kevin $25 to retain him as an expert witness for the divorce case;
- In May of 2006, Kevin purchased two Spiders and a Ghost from Gail, for about $2,000. When asked why he would do this when he has so many Spiders of his own to sell, Kevin replied that he was "trying to help her [Gail] and give her some money". (During her deposition, however, Gail contradicted Kevin's testimony by testifying under oath that Kevin had purchased $6,000-worth of snakes from her);
- When asked "Who owns Renaissance Reptiles?", Kevin replied "I believe it is in her [Gail's] name, but I thought it was still a marriage asset". Apparently, the animals that Kevin considered "stolen" in November of 2005, were now considered by him to be a "marriage asset";
- Kevin had the following to say about the state of the reptile market: "As I am experiencing in my business right now, the market is dead. I have just a very difficult time selling animals and I am waiting, it is a very very hard time right now and I am very disillusioned with the business to the point where I'm downsizing and I'm possibly thinking about getting out to some degree." I wonder if Kevin has told any of his customers that "the market is dead" and that he is "downsizing" and "possibly thinking of getting out to some degree"...??? I'm betting not.

During the latter part of 2006, Gail moved the remainder of the Renaissance Reptiles collection to NERD. (As it turns out, much of the Renaissance Reptiles collection was already at NERD by that time).

During late 2006 through much of 2007, Gail testified on several occasions that the entire Renaissance Reptiles collection was either dead or dying. The reasons that Gail stated to the Court, and to the court-appointed Special Master, are as follows:
- NERD's facility was riddled with Aspergillus mold, and the Renaissance Reptiles collection had been decimated from exposure to this mold;
- NERD's water supply was contaminated with Cryptosporidium, and the Renaissance Reptiles collection had been further decimated from exposure to this pathogen;
- Gail did not have any rodents to feed the Renaissance Reptiles collection; all she had were a few frozen rats that Kevin "generously" gave her from time to time; animals were dying from starvation.

Apparently, according to Gail, whatever animals survived the Aspergillus and the Cryptosporidium at NERD, succumbed to starvation.

On several occasions, Gail testified to the Court, and to the court-appointed Special Master, that Kevin had been selling Renaissance Reptiles animals to NERD customers. According to Gail's statements, she did not know who the animals had been sold to, and the buyers did not know that the animals were Renaissance Reptiles animals. An obvious inference to be made from Gail's assertions regarding the Renaissance Reptiles collection housed at NERD, is that anyone purchasing a ball python from NERD may have, in fact, purchased a Renaissance Reptiles animal that was sick. Additionally, if Gail is to be believed, there is a distinct likelihood that many NERD animals may have been similarly afflicted by Aspergillus and/or Cryptosporidium.

In March of 2007, the Probate Court gave me my divorce. As part of the divorce decree, the Probate Court made the following findings:
- The house was sold at foreclosure auction after Gail stopped making the mortgage payments and household utility bills;
- Gail was the only one with access to the Renaissance Reptiles bank account;
- From April of 2004 through March of 2005, Gail withdrew $52,800 in cash from the Renaissance Reptiles bank account without my knowledge.

In April of 2007, the Probate Court appointed a Special Master charged with the responsibility of inventorying and liquidating the assets of Renaissance Reptiles. The Special Master is the only person with the authority to sell or authorize the sale of Renaissance Reptiles assets. Be advised that anyone purchasing Renaissance Reptiles animals or equipment either from Gail or NERD run the risk of having their purchase seized by the Special Master. If you are considering a purchase from NERD, ask the following questions:
- Is this a Renaissance Reptiles animal...???
- Has this animal been exposed to the Aspergillus that Gail states was widespread at NERD...???
- Has this animal been exposed to the Cryptosporidium that Gail states was in the NERD water supply...???

Stay tuned for further updates coming soon...
Pictures - you will NOT want to miss these...!!!
Why you may NEVER hatch visibles from your NERD "hets"...
What you may not know about the "het. Black" ball pythons sold by NERD in the early 2000s...
And more...
 
Seamus Haley said:
Since nobody has yet added it, here is the current text of the page on the website linked by the thread originator relating to NERD- I'm tossing it in here simply because, if the link dies none of this makes any sense.

The portion of text in quotations below is the text found on the linked site. That said, I personally have no way of knowing if it was posted by the person indicated or what, if any, validity any of it has. I am not commenting on the contents, merely making sure they are not lost so that the comments which have been made in this thread on this site retain whatever validity they may have had.

I agree with that part.

Renaissance Reptiles was started by myself and my wife, Gail, in the late 1990s/early 2000s. As the business grew, our marriage - which had not been going well for many years - became increasingly acrimonious. In the summer of 2005, things began to worsen at an increasing pace.

What does a divorce have to do with the BOI? I mean if Nigel wanted to post here about his wife/business partner ripping him off, that would be one thing. But for third party posting information without one ounce of proof, is yet another.

No one here knows how much of that statement is true. It was an ugly divorce, nothing more. So let's stop beating this dead horse, unless proof can be posted to back up these so-called claims.

:deadhorse
 
ToshaMc said:
For what it's worth Nigel is a lying sack of
swirlieshit.gif
don't make the mistake of taking anything he says too seriously. Gail was awarded the snakes - Nigel stole them - he is a bitter little man that wasn't able to con the judge into making Gails life miserable - End of Story - someones messy divorce is not a BOI matter.


You're right. It's not. Yet here you are, discussing it. :rolleyes:
 
ToshaMc said:
This is a fourth persons link to an old statement from a bitter third party about alleged comments made from a second party about a first party. Hearsay is not allowed on the BOI remember!!!


See post above. :rolleyes:
 
Oh and where did Matt Fisher AKA Fish21 go? I have a few questions for him.

Matt, is it true that someone put you up to posting this here? Is it also true that there is a hidden agenda behind this?

No sir, don't run off yet, I still have a few more questions to add to this list, but this is just the start. ;)
 
I started this tread because there are claims on the link I posted that lead me to be concerned about the animals we all love.

This is not a attack at anybody. I didn’t write a word of the link I posted. I see people in question on the boi all the time. I posted this link because this is herp related, and this involves a hobby that I am involved in and my Friends are involved in.

Bobby Hill who is this someone with the agenda? the only agenda I see here is someone (me) concerned for the health and wellbeing as well as the legal issues that were addressed.

If you are going to turn this thread against me to distract for what this thread is about. Then you are doing your self and every one here a disservice, and I will not post here any more and contribute. As there are enough people dissevering this industry already.
 
Nigel posted his March 2007 Divorce Decree on his web site:
http://renaissancereptiles.com/stolen/decree.shtml

It states there that Gail wasn't awarded the collection, it was supposed to be evenly split after an inventory was made by a "Special Master." So unless something changed between then and now, Gail wasn't awarded the entire collection. Hopefully he'll post more documentation.
 
great post verry informative. thanks for keeping the matter at hand.
NO MORE AGENDA'S!
 
If you are going to turn this thread against me to distract for what this thread is about then you are doing your self and every one here a disservice.
It looks like thread is about a disgruntled guy that had a messy divorce...is that what you wanted it to be about?
 
fish21 said:
I started this tread because there are claims on the link I posted that lead me to be concerned about the animals we all love.

This is not a attack at anybody. I didn’t write a word of the link I posted. I see people in question on the boi all the time. I posted this link because this is herp related, and this involves a hobby that I am involved in and my Friends are involved in.

Bobby Hill who is this someone with the agenda? the only agenda I see here is someone (me) concerned for the health and wellbeing as well as the legal issues that were addressed.

If you are going to turn this thread against me to distract for what this thread is about. Then you are doing your self and every one here a disservice, and I will not post here any more and contribute. As there are enough people dissevering this industry already.

If you say so, however, I do not think you are being 100% honest here. Are you sure Brock did not put you up to this?

As for your proof, you started this thread, so show some proof to back your wonderful link to nothing Fisher. Or are you fishing for something that does not exist?

There is no need for you to concern yourself for a cause that has no meat to back it up. If you and Brock have any proof of these claims, then by all means buck up and post some kind of proof.

Fish21: great post verry informative. thanks for keeping the matter at hand.
NO MORE AGENDA'S!

Great post about what? A divorce? Too damn funny!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
Ok guys, I was REALLY going to keep my nose out of this one (honest!)....but I kind of feel the need to say something.

While initially, this really didn't seem like "BOI" material, I really don't understand the viciousness of the attack against Matt. Reading Nigel's posts, and not knowing any more of the story, I can see why someone would question what is going on with all of this. Whether he posted in the correct manner, whether it really belonged here or not....I can see why someone may have posted it. If the divorce decree said that the snakes were to be divided, and they weren't....there may be some truth to what was said besides the ramblings of a disgruntled husband. But I don't know. If I thought that I had real reason to believe that there WERE illnesses within NERD's (or anyone else's, for that matter)collection, I would probably ask around with people "in the know" before posting here, but I would have concern.

My point is.......I think some folks, unless THEY have proof of an ulterior motive for Matt's posting this, may need to lighten up a bit on him. I'm not sure how Matt could prove that he DOESN'T have one, really. :shrug01: I don't know Matt.....I'm just sayin.

Anyhoo.........back to the regularly scheduled.......whatever you call it.
 
I see where you are coming from but this doesn't have to deal with a specific animal that was either sold or purchased...or a question as to whether or not a specific dealer is a good guy or bad guy...his question was "what do you all think of this?" and he posted a link.

I think people have just answered his initial question about what was on the link and maybe he doesn't like the answers. Maybe Matt can tell us what specific answer he is looking for?
 
Cathy thanks for posting that great non bias post.

Bobby i admit it. it was a group of people behind this. the same group that were the shooters on the grassy knoll. ( you need to quit having noon tea with agent Fox Moulder)

Matt Lerer
If you can read that entire link and only get that from it. I don’t know where to start. The messy divorce is only a small part of the grand pic. The who got what/ who left who/ who who who. is not what I am concerned about.

Quotes form the thread and how they are pertaining to the BOI. I am leavening out all the she left me and ran off with him stuff that has no place here.


1. Subsequent investigation led me to discover that Gail had taken these animals and moved them to a facility owned by Kevin McCurley (hereinafter "Kevin") of New England Reptile Distributors (NERD). -------------------------------------------------- proves that NERD is involved nothing more and that Gail had been in nerds facility.

2. Within hours, Gail, Kevin, and Kara (from NERD) began claiming that these animals had been "stolen". According to their claims, many of the "stolen" animals belonged to NERD; this was a lie.-------------------------------------------------------------just proves bad practices and possible lies. and even if the snakes being sold by nigel were gails/NERDS how did nigel come to have these in his possession to sell.

3. - In May of 2006, Kevin purchased two Spiders and a Ghost from Gail, for about $2,000. When asked why he would do this when he has so many Spiders of his own to sell, Kevin replied that he was "trying to help her [Gail] and give her some money". (During her deposition, however, Gail contradicted Kevin's testimony by testifying under oath that Kevin had purchased $6,000-worth of snakes from her);
- When asked "Who owns Renaissance Reptiles?", Kevin replied "I believe it is in her [Gail's] name, but I thought it was still a marriage asset". Apparently, the animals that Kevin considered "stolen" in November of 2005, were now considered by him to be a "marriage asset"; ----------------------------------------------------------------
self explanatory

4. Kevin had the following to say about the state of the reptile market: "As I am experiencing in my business right now, the market is dead. I have just a very difficult time selling animals and I am waiting, it is a very very hard time right now and I am very disillusioned with the business to the point where I'm downsizing and I'm possibly thinking about getting out to some degree-------------------------------------------
again self explanatory

5. 2007, Gail testified on several occasions that the entire Renaissance Reptiles collection was either dead or dying. The reasons that Gail stated to the Court, and to the court-appointed Special Master, are as follows:
- NERD's facility was riddled with Aspergillus mold, and the Renaissance Reptiles collection had been decimated from exposure to this mold;
- NERD's water supply was contaminated with Cryptosporidium, and the Renaissance Reptiles collection had been further decimated from exposure to this pathogen; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this is what Gail said in court. And as we know form #1 that Gail did have knowledge of nerds facility. so unless this was a lie under oath witch is punishable by law. This is true.

6. On several occasions, Gail testified to the Court, and to the court-appointed Special Master, that Kevin had been selling Renaissance Reptiles animals to NERD customers. According to Gail's statements, she did not know who the animals had been sold to, and the buyers did not know that the animals were Renaissance Reptiles animals. An obvious inference to be made from Gail's assertions regarding the Renaissance Reptiles collection housed at NERD, is that anyone purchasing a ball python from NERD may have, in fact, purchased a Renaissance Reptiles animal that was sick. Additionally, if Gail is to be believed, there is a distinct likelihood that many NERD animals may have been similarly afflicted by Aspergillus and/or Cryptosporidium. -------------------------this is the one that is the main reason I posted this link on here. For the main reason that this was said by Gail in court. And to -appointed Special Master

7. In April of 2007, the Probate Court appointed a Special Master charged with the responsibility of inventorying and liquidating the assets of Renaissance Reptiles. The Special Master is the only person with the authority to sell or authorize the sale of Renaissance Reptiles assets. Be advised that anyone purchasing Renaissance Reptiles animals or equipment either from Gail or NERD run the risk of having their purchase seized by the Special Master. If you are considering a purchase from NERD, ask the following questions:
- Is this a Renaissance Reptiles animal...???
- Has this animal been exposed to the Aspergillus that Gail states was widespread at NERD...???
- Has this animal been exposed to the Cryptosporidium that Gail states was in the NERD water supply...??? -----------------------------------------------------------
This would scare the crap out of me had bought snakes from NERD. And I felt people had the right to know about this.
 
6. On several occasions, Gail testified to the Court, and to the court-appointed Special Master, that Kevin had been selling Renaissance Reptiles animals to NERD customers. According to Gail's statements, she did not know who the animals had been sold to, and the buyers did not know that the animals were Renaissance Reptiles animals. An obvious inference to be made from Gail's assertions regarding the Renaissance Reptiles collection housed at NERD, is that anyone purchasing a ball python from NERD may have, in fact, purchased a Renaissance Reptiles animal that was sick. Additionally, if Gail is to be believed, there is a distinct likelihood that many NERD animals may have been similarly afflicted by Aspergillus and/or Cryptosporidium. -------------------------this is the one that is the main reason I posted this link on here. For the main reason that this was said by Gail in court. And to -appointed Special Master

7. In April of 2007, the Probate Court appointed a Special Master charged with the responsibility of inventorying and liquidating the assets of Renaissance Reptiles. The Special Master is the only person with the authority to sell or authorize the sale of Renaissance Reptiles assets. Be advised that anyone purchasing Renaissance Reptiles animals or equipment either from Gail or NERD run the risk of having their purchase seized by the Special Master. If you are considering a purchase from NERD, ask the following questions:
- Is this a Renaissance Reptiles animal...???
- Has this animal been exposed to the Aspergillus that Gail states was widespread at NERD...???
- Has this animal been exposed to the Cryptosporidium that Gail states was in the NERD water supply...??? -----------------------------------------------------------
This would scare the crap out of me had bought snakes from NERD. And I felt people had the right to know about this.
Don't let it scare the crap out of you Matt...if there were problems with snakes sold it would be all over the internet and especially all over the BOI...so problem solved ;)
 
Cat_72 said:
My point is.......I think some folks, unless THEY have proof of an ulterior motive for Matt's posting this, may need to lighten up a bit on him. I'm not sure how Matt could prove that he DOESN'T have one, really. :shrug01: I don't know Matt.....I'm just sayin.

Anyhoo.........back to the regularly scheduled.......whatever you call it.

Well, see the part that Matt is not telling is how this thread was an attempt by him and someone else to take a pot shot at NERD. Of course he is not going to buck up and tell the truth. But that was/is the agenda behind his little game.

(info)( renaissance reptiles/ nerd)

Info? Yea, it is info alright, of a bad divorce, nothing more. Sorry Matt, but ya gotta do better than that.
 
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