INQUERY: MONSTER-CAGES.COM and MONSTERSNAKESFOREVER.COM

[crotalusadamanteus]

BTW is 32 years long enough for you? My mom started me in this hobby when I was 10 years old. Just cuz I don't breed all the time, doesn't mean I ain't been around.

 

[Tom C]

Yeah Richard, what ever you say...

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Good come back

 

[Tom C]

Good come back

What was I suppose to come back w/ after this kind of post???

My mom started me in this hobby when I was 10 years old. Just cuz I don't breed all the time, doesn't mean I ain't been around.

Ok.. You got me here, you the man....

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Don't care for being the man to be honest. I blaze my own trials rather than follow others.

But when another is wrong, they are wrong. Friendship, or business relationship does not warrant immunity. That's my only point.

You have a Merry Christmas.
Rick

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Sorry, "TRAILS" nor trials.

 

[MonsterSnakesForever.com]

LMFAO!!! Wow this thread shot up there!!

Leave it to you Tom

So did everyone have a nice Xmas?

Guys just let it go

I am more worried about the hundreds of people who invest thousands in this hobby every year then one nut job who hates this hobby and the people in it.

Brian why dont you tell them about all the people you tried to call fish and game on or all the stunts you have pulled to try and get peoples animals taken away? You guys are on a bandwagon for a guy who hates this hobby and the investment breeders and he was expressing how much he hated prehistoric pets and I feel what he was doing was trying to crash a market.

If it makes me a bad guy for looking out for the hundreds of people invested in this project so be it....

Here is the original PM string to show what a bad guy I am

RETIC_LORD Bro Thu Dec 20th, 2007 07:59 pm
Reply Forward Delete
- Choose Folder -InboxDeleted Items Move
I hope you understand but I deleted your selling topic. Man that price is just WAY to lowball and I dont mind doing PM but that price will ruin the market in public and I dont need to piss on every other person in the project.

_____Original Message_____
From: RETIC_LORD
Date: 2007-12-20 21:12:53
Subject: Re: Bro

r u serious???

_____Original Message_____
From: SAMHAIN
Date: 2007-12-20 21:18:30
Subject: Re: Bro

I am absolutely serious man...I know your getting out Brian but some of us are staying in and I would ask more than what you are asking for those animals as hatchling's Bro!! Dude I am not trying to be a **** I just don't need the heat from the other people in this project. Jay has a pair listed for like 10K don't he? What you do in pm your your business Bro but public pricing I have to hold my integrity on.

_____Original Message_____
From: RETIC_LORD
Date: 2007-12-20 21:25:49
Subject: Re: Bro

ya but my underpriced dh's dont come with the compimentery mite package lol!!!

dude you and i know jay is a rip off and his shit is WAY overpiced. as for kingsnake... thats another story. honestly can you count on one hand the amount of peopel you know that have spent over 10grand with him... i dont think so.

people dump their reptiles, that is just the way it goes and you cant expect people to sit back and hold on to something they want to sell just becuase it may make people made... sorry but i woudlnt expect you to live up to the same staandards but this is your foum and do what you will... i will find a buyer regardless whether it be your parter or your competitor all i care about is dead presidents.... not trying to be a cock or anything.... sorry but i hope you can understand.

regards,

brian


_____Original Message_____
From: RETIC_LORD
Date: 2007-12-20 21:25:49
Subject: Re: Bro

ya but my underpriced dh's dont come with the compimentery mite package lol!!!

dude you and i know jay is a rip off and his **** is WAY overpiced. honestly can you count on one hand the amount of peopel you know that have spent over 10grand with him... i dont think so.

people dump their reptiles, that is just the way it goes and you cant expect people to sit back and hold on to something they want to sell just becuase it may make people made... sorry but i woudlnt expect you to live up to the same staandards but this is your foum and do what you will... i will find a buyer regardless whether it be your parter or your competitor all i care about is dead presidents.... not trying to be a **** or anything.... sorry but i hope you can understand.

regards,

brian

_____Original Message_____
From: SAMHAIN
Date: 2007-12-20 21:35:23
Subject: Re: Bro

I completely understand you need to sell them Bro and I am not trying to hurt you all I ask is you put "pm For Special Christmas Price" or some **** and your welcome to advertise the **** out of them!! I put all the **** in the past with you Bro because I wanted to do right by you. You were a Moderator here for a long time and backed me up as a good friend and I just dont flip people like a lot of the ******** in this hobby and all I am asking for is to keep the **** in pm and it is all good

Why the **** dont you breed them Bro? Dammit I would help you!! You worked so hard to get these guys to size and now they are close to breeding why the hell would you sell them? Man I know you have had some issues with some people and I dont care about that...You always will have Monsters man....remember that...

_____Original Message_____
From: RETIC_LORD
Date: 2007-12-20 21:41:39
Subject: Re: Bro

all i want harry is one huge retic, one huge monitor lizard (i dont have at the moment), and my cat (maybe another hot girlfriend too lol). i dont have the time to clean a ton of cages day after day... i just want a few animals as pets and thats it... not to worry about ovulation or incubation or any of that... i am out of the breeding game, its not my cup of tea.

besides i have some bills to pay and selling these animals would do the trick. i am going to be moving too so i need to lighten my load for now.


_____Original Message_____
From: SAMHAIN
Date: 2007-12-20 21:51:28
Subject: Re: Bro

I completly understand and obviously that is your decision to make I will keep letting people know the price on these guys and do what I can to help you.


Brians last reply sorry no time stamp because of the way my pm system is set up.

thanks man i appreciate it!!!!


SOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! You see Mr Watkins was not banned for his price cutting here is why he was banned....

_____Original Message_____
From: SAMHAIN
Date: 2007-12-22 20:33:07
Subject: WTF man?

WOW whats this brian?

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Matthew Martin
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 6:34 PM
Subject: RE: 1.1 Dh albino genetic stripes and 1.3 Kayuadis


ummm.... no!

pay first.... then ship. these are the real deal man. i told you to talk to jay... i have papers if you want to see them i can email you a pic of them... to be honest i dont really trust harry... i have known him for a while but i wouldnt say he is exactly someone i trust.

money talks matt.


So as You can see this issue was entirely personal and I banned him after he made statements about me not being trustworthy.

Bandwaggon me all you want folks but I did what I thought was right and thats the END!

I kept my integrity to my fellow breeders and if the drama queens of this board dont like that then I hope every breeder who reads this remembers thier names and keeps it in mind the next time they would like to buy one of your investmet quality animals....

 

[MonsterSnakesForever.com]

Oh goodness I missed more swear words!!! I will take my 40 lashing now...LMFAO

 

[MonsterSnakesForever.com]

I would also like to add this is a sticky at the top of my free selling forum and he knew my policy on pricing before he ever posted...

Posted: Sun May 13th, 2007 11:06 am Edit Delete IP

This should be common sense in this community, but apparently not to some people.

MonsterSnakes.com and its members will not tolerate individuals / companys that have no respect for the industry and income that many individuals and business's rely on for a second income.

I dont rely on this business for any income, but there are alot of good people that have invested 10's of thousands of dollars and many years of dedication in hopes of getting a return and relying on that as a second income.

MonsterSnakes.com does respect those hobbyist and companys that are in this for the long term and will not host free classifieds for individuals or companys that have no respect for this community.If you purposefully post ad's that directly undercut average current market value of reptile projects your ad will be removed and you will be warned, this will be the only warning !!

Wholesaling entire clutches has been part of this industry and is understandable.Some people enjoy producing there own future stock, but dont want to deal w/ hundreds of customers and shipping to individuals, that is completely understandable, thats where i would stand..lol.

If you want to wholesale, put up an ad that **You are looking for larger companys/ indivuals that would be interested in purchasing your entire clutches**, there is nothing wrong w/ this, but you will not put up individual / multiple reptiles on wholesale prices...This is undercutting the market and will not be tolerated.

This industry exists on a perfect balance of hobbyist's and bussiness's that invest a good amount of cash to bring us these new and exciting morphs, undercutting the market will ultimately destroy what us good people enjoy in this community, cool new morphs..


All in all, be respectful that some people do rely on this business/hobby to help put clothes and food in their homes.

Thanks for understanding and please just use common sense...

Tom C and Monster staff

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Self admission in a forum that cannot be edited or deleted. That's real smart.

You can't "control" the market as it appears you are trying to do. I just hope the wrong person doesn't come across one of these posts. You could stand to be in a lot of trouble if it was pushed.

As for the other party, I admit something don't seem right. But he's not being as obvious as you currently are. When someone figures out what the fishy smell is, I am sure he will be called on it as well.

You may want to just step away from the keyboard before you inadvertently do more harm to yourself. IMHO you are looking worst with every post.

 

[MonsterSnakesForever.com]

LOL I will take this under advisement.

My board is a private board. I did this to try and help people not hurt them and if that comes with some repercusions I guess we will cross that bridge with integrity like we have everyother.

I am sure every breeder in this hobby is calling their lawyer right now

Your entitled to your opinion and we have it so if you dont have anything else to add to this thread neither do I...

Happy Holidays all...

 

[Seamus Haley]

Self admission in a forum that cannot be edited or deleted. That's real smart.

Don't forget that he's also apparantly got no idea what the word "average" means, unless he's picking a specific dollar amount and only allowing ads that hit it exactly with no deviation up or down.

 

[bsharrah]

Harry you can justify your efforts however you like but your lame attempts to maintain what you feel are “market prices” will only hurt those hundreds that invested thousands in the long run. And if your hundreds sell their animals at prices you feel are appropriate then what can “one nut job” harm? I am curious where the line separates those who lowball, those who just need to move their animals quickly, and those who just want to offer a good deal.

I love it how your post begins with “this should be common sense in this community”. Anyone with any education or experience in economics can see the damage you are doing to the hobby by artificially maintaining market prices. I realize this is off topic for this thread but it just boggles the mind how people can be so stupid that they can not see how destructive attempts like yours are being on those you are trying to protect. Market values of animals being produced exponetionally are going to decrease gradually – nothing you can do to prevent this . By manipulating them, you are only going to contribute to a market “crash”. I am sorry, I realize it is Christmas and all, but you have to be a complete idiot to not see this.

Bart

 

[MonsterSnakesForever.com]

Harry you can justify your efforts however you like but your lame attempts to maintain what you feel are “market prices” will only hurt those hundreds that invested thousands in the long run.

Yes I am sure the people who have lost thosands in this hobby see it just this way Had I not had previous knowledge of his hate for the market leaders on this idividual project I would have more then likely let it slide.

And if your hundreds sell their animals at prices you feel are appropriate then what can “one nut job” harm?

If one person sees the price at X amount everyone assumes thats the price. It happens all the time. I know when Mojave Balls were posted for $800 it sure hurt a lot of good folks.

I am sorry, I realize it is Christmas and all, but you have to be a complete idiot to not see this.

Bart

I am sorry you see me as an idiot Bart. This is the FIRST time anyone has ever been removed for this type of action and I have seen many folks put animals up at really cheap prices and I did not say a word but the fact that I know the surrounding issues with some of the leaders in this project this individual has had I saw this as an attempt to hurt them and would not leave the adds.

Hell maybe I am in error here and should have let him stick it to the other people he dont like in the project but then I would have been a bad guy there also so this is just a lose lose situation for me and to those who think I did this just to be a bad guy or some manipulator of the Market then I am truley sorry but I saw this as an act of revenge just like this thread and tried to handle it the best way I knew how.....

Again I did this with the best intentions and if you read the PM's Brian was not even mad about this and accepted the actions I took and replaced the adds the way he was asked to post them.

Had I felt it was some poor guy trying to feed his family or something of this nature I would have NEVER got involved but seeing WHO it was and WHAT his motives are 99% of the time I have to think I did what was right here.

Thanks for your opinion. I value it and I think this will just make me a better forum owner in the long run because we learn from our mistakes. I am never someone who would justify my own wrong doing and if you think I am wrong maybe I am?

I will let the people be the judge of my actions and leave this thread knowing I am a little wiser.

 

[bsharrah]

Harry, again, I am sorry for continuing off topic discussion. I realize this thread is about a potential deal involving the OP and agree that their appears to be some underlying personal issue involved but my post had nothing to do with the OP or his issues. The history between you two or anything previously said in PM’s doesn’t change the fact that you can not benefit this hobby or its members by attempting to regulate market prices. The fact is people have the right to sell what is theirs for what they wish. People who know anything about investing money understand this. Those you go crying to forum mods because others are selling animals at prices far below theirs are no different than those who cry “that’s not fair” when their stock portfolio takes a dive. I would not consider those individuals “leaders” in any respect.

Bart

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Maybe this will help him out...

Average...In mathematics, an average, or central tendency of a data set refers to a measure of the "middle" or "expected" value of the data set.

Translated...It is the mean of the high end, and low end.

 

[MonsterSnakesForever.com]

Those you go crying to forum mods because others are selling animals at prices far below theirs are no different than those who cry “that’s not fair” when their stock portfolio takes a dive. I would not consider those individuals “leaders” in any respect.

Bart

Bart it is cool I understand your position and I can respect it.

I would like to make it clear though that no one came crying to me about the Ad's what so ever. Not one person said a word about it and I acted alone in my decision. I take sole blame for removing the ads and I stand by my decision just as I am sure you will stand by your opinion.

After what 16 pages? I think this horse is dead and honestly in some way I think Brian got what he wanted here and I refuse to give him his way any longer.

I need to put this little learning lesson behind me and I guess the number one lesson I learned is go with your first decision. I should have never let Brian back on my forums to begin with and the mistake has cost me the pain in the ass that is this thread.

I have never been placed on this board for being dishonest and never will be mark my words...I did what I thought was right and I came here to defend my reputation. I have been completely honest here and for the most part been very respectful to everyone no matter what their opinion of me is. I hope the good folks of the BOI take this into consideration when reading this thread and I hope to see some of you on better circumstances.

Harry.....MonsterSnakesForever.com!!!

 

[John E Dove]

This is the FIRST time anyone has ever been removed for this type of action and I have seen many folks put animals up at really cheap prices and I did not say a word

Now you have peaked my curiosity Mr Wessels.
Did you take this action before or after he refused to ship the snakes to you before being paid?

And if this low ball price frightened you so much why did you not just snatch up his offer, send him his money, then relist the snakes at the profit margin you felt was appropriate for the morph?

 

[Tom C]

This should be common sense in this community, but apparently not to some people.

MonsterSnakes.com and its members will not tolerate individuals / companys that have no respect for the industry and income that many individuals and business's rely on for a second income.

I dont rely on this business for any income, but there are alot of good people that have invested 10's of thousands of dollars and many years of dedication in hopes of getting a return and relying on that as a second income.

MonsterSnakes.com does respect those hobbyist and companys that are in this for the long term and will not host free classifieds for individuals or companys that have no respect for this community.If you purposefully post ad's that directly undercut average current market value of reptile projects your ad will be removed and you will be warned, this will be the only warning !!

Wholesaling entire clutches has been part of this industry and is understandable.Some people enjoy producing there own future stock, but dont want to deal w/ hundreds of customers and shipping to individuals, that is completely understandable, thats where i would stand..lol.

If you want to wholesale, put up an ad that **You are looking for larger companys/ indivuals that would be interested in purchasing your entire clutches**, there is nothing wrong w/ this, but you will not put up individual / multiple reptiles on wholesale prices...This is undercutting the market and will not be tolerated.

This industry exists on a perfect balance of hobbyist's and bussiness's that invest a good amount of cash to bring us these new and exciting morphs, undercutting the market will ultimately destroy what us good people enjoy in this community, cool new morphs..


All in all, be respectful that some people do rely on this business/hobby to help put clothes and food in their homes.

Thanks for understanding and please just use common sense...

Tom C and Monster staff

I want this understood... I wrote this statement and I stand behind this 100%

If anyone wants to file a lawsuit, file it at me personally..

 

[Serafim]

I want this understood... I wrote this statement and I stand behind this 100%

If anyone wants to file a lawsuit, file it at me personally..

I think we are jumping the gun on the lawsuit talk. It doesn't matter if you wrote the statement or not. The owner of the site allowed it to stay posted. I don't have a dog in this fight. So I could care less. I saw all I needed to see in the beinning of this thread.

Tom and Harry I respect the fact that you are trying to protect your name but nothing is being accoplished with this thread. It just gets worse with each post. I think that most who read this thread can see something is not quite right from the get go. I would just suggest taking your own advice and allow this one to die on its own. Take care guys