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Inquiry: Dachiu

JimD said:
Denise
Do you have any proof of that? You are accusing someone without any backing. Isn't that what was happing to you?
Being accused with no proof?

Jim.
Click to expand...

What exactly do you want "proof" of NOW Jim? That Vickie was being completely dishonest when she was trying to "prove" that the testing I used didn't exist when she knew full well it did? Go back to the initial attacks in the sandfire thread or the first 3 days of attacks on me on the BOI thread bearing my name.
That she was calling, emailing and sending PM's to people in order to get them to attack me over my testing? Its right in those threads too.
That she stated publicly that the reason she did this was because I was "avoiding" her by not returning her phone calls when it turns out that she NEVER tried to call me until 3 days AFTER she launched her assault? It's all right there on the BOI, it does not require her honesty now.
Honor and integrity are not flexible concepts, you either possess them or you don't.
It's all right there in her own words. She claimed, repeatedly, that the reason she launched the attack on me was because she attempted to contact me to get information from me after she learned my results and I did not return her call. She later admits to trying to call me once, that phone call happened to come last Sunday, 3 days after she initiated the public attack. The off-line attacks started well before that.
Here's the facts. I have a BOI thread with my name on it where the first 50 posts are a feeding frenzy of people trying to bring me down because they believed I was dishonest based upon what Vickie told them, including that the test I used to test my dragons "did not exist" when she absolutely knew that it did.
You tell me Jim, how honest and ethical was any of that?
I don't judge people who make honest mistakes, I do however judge people on their intentional actions and what they say afterwards.
 
Denisebme said:
My advice would be to print the WHOLE paper and take it with you to the Vet.
The test itself will cost you anywhere from $60 to $100.
Click to expand...

This is why my tests will only be done two at a time, as I can comfortably afford that.
I happened to go to Denise's website last night and look at it. Adeno has its own spot there, and in the making of my website I will follow by example as I think the example she has shown is the correct course of action to take. I also know she is ACTIVELY partaking in all aspects to get to the bottom of adeno which I find admirable.
Because of this thread and many like it on the BOI I can see who will be my future contacts and who I personally would buy for.
I support Fauna, Rich and the BOI because I believe in it. Remember there are many many many people who read here but do not post openly. They are all potential BUYERS. They are also being able to form their own conclusions. I know this from the PMs and emails I have gotten. Even though those sellers are not open here, I know they are concerned and taking affirmative action for their own piece of mind and for their buyers and I applaud them as well.
 
I am not disagreeing about their mentioning of the AV on their site. What I'm asking is that you know 100% that she/they were behind what others accused you of.
Sometimes its not fair to be accused.
Jim
 
Re: Test results...
Sent to: Dachiu 04-05-2007 09:12 PM Unread
Test results...
Sent to: Dachiu 04-04-2007 04:17 PM Unread

This is from my 'confirmed' PM box.
The first one Dachiu replied to the next day, and I immediately wrote back thanking them for replying and letting them know my housing and that I planned on getting two dragons tested at a time.
I have no idea if they read the second, but know they have been here and they wrote back on the first one but did not chose to confirm it.
I was hoping that I would have gotten a PM from the back stating that they would at least like to know the results, as I had explained to them that the beardies I received from them are older beardies and they could use info such as timeline as a reference, no such PM came my way.
I like to find out for myself as well before just going with others on their stances. I must say I am dismayed and becoming increasingly so as days go by.
 
JimD said:
I am not disagreeing about their mentioning of the AV on their site. What I'm asking is that you know 100% that she/they were behind what others accused you of.
Sometimes its not fair to be accused.
Jim
Click to expand...

Yes, I know that 100% as does almost everyone else that has followed this thread from the beginning. Go back to the beginning, you can see it for yourself.
It's pretty simple actually, Vickie herself as much as admitted it, but says that she cautioned people to slow down. Bottom line is that you can not work for days to provoke a situation like that and then claim innocence when people run with the information you gave them, particularly when that information was false to begin with.
You have the ability to make up your own mind Jim, I'm not going to try to convince you of anything.
You're right, its NOT fair to be accused of something without proof, and if I was doing that, I'd be no better than the people who tried to lynch me. That is NOT who I am.
 
JimD said:
Denise
Do you have any proof of that? You are accusing someone without any backing. Isn't that what was happing to you?
Being accused with no proof?

Jim.
Click to expand...

There are many things I did not like nor agree with with your posts on here. Some things seemed to me to have to be literally drug out of you. Like one of those games where you are talking with someone and have to ask the right, precise quesion with no wiggle room to get the answer. Very passive indeed.

The one thing that I will say good about you is that you have stuck around and continue to do so. Since we all know you have been on top of these threads from the very beginning please do not even ruin this by asking questions that you know the answers to. Very redundant to say the least.
 
Stardust.
The one thing I am not is passive. If I was would I still be here. I could say that I was put up to being here but why would I have stuck around and stuck it out. I own and breed dragons so I personally have an interest here. Regardless of my relationship with the Dachius, I care about my dragons.
If I offend you, I am sorry. I look at more then what is put in front of me and make my decisions after I have taken in what I find.
Thanks.
Jim.
 
JimD said:
Stardust.
The one thing I am not is passive. If I was would I still be here. I could say that I was put up to being here but why would I have stuck around and stuck it out. I own and breed dragons so I personally have an interest here. Regardless of my relationship with the Dachius, I care about my dragons.
If I offend you, I am sorry. I look at more then what is put in front of me and make my decisions after I have taken in what I find.
Thanks.
Jim.
Click to expand...

I did not say anything about your relationship with Dachiu nor did I say you offend me and you can read what I did say.
I, too am looking out of the box as well. I hope you are honest and care about your dragons, also I hope that you care about the people who buy from you and will take the knowledge you gain and apply it appropriately.
 
JimD, 2 words-SHUT UP


Alot of people screwed up here, Don't scare away people that are reading and trying to learn. We need to work together, so stop continuing to provoke arguements.


Breeding season is in full force, lets get the word out on as many caresheets, websites, and forums. Dachiu has updated their website. Big or small--- ALL breeders need to follow suit. Then maybe we can ask them to start testing their breeders. We all have different opinions, but the end goal is the same.

http://www.dachiu.com/adults.html?
 
mikey said:
JimD, 2 words-SHUT UP


Alot of people screwed up here, Don't scare away people that are reading and trying to learn. We need to work together, so stop continuing to provoke arguements.


Breeding season is in full force, lets get the word out on as many caresheets, websites, and forums. Dachiu has updated their website. Big or small--- ALL breeders need to follow suit. Then maybe we can ask them to start testing their breeders. We all have different opinions, but the end goal is the same.

http://www.dachiu.com/adults.html?
Click to expand...

Thank you, Mikey...and thank you, Vickie.
 
JimD said:
I love how polite people are here.
Jim.
Click to expand...

You say you are here to participate, learn, bla... bla...

You have done none of that. You have added NOTHING useful here.

Oh, take it back. You said you are the Canadian distributor for Daichu.

That is the ONLY useful piece if information you have contributed.
 
We have been posting up information on the dragon forum for some time now - giving some reasons and references supporting our beliefs on the adenovirus.

The information on adenovirus has been around for some time now. It was found in 94 by Dr. Frye in rankins dragons, in 96 by Dr. Jacobson in vitticeps… To think that the only the animals that were necropsied were the only animal to be infected or exposed is illogical.

The question was asked why are we not testing our adults.

When testing, what answers are you looking for? This perspective makes a difference in the way that you test and what the results mean. If you choose to test adults like many others, you most likely have found positives. If you re-tested, more positives. If you have found any positive animals in your collection - all of your dragons have been exposed. This is a virus which is very stable in the environment and none of us have ever taken the extreme precautions needed to prevent cross-contamination.

People have been actively testing since August. What are the results? In 8 months - where are the negative babies? Keep in mind that these are small collections and they are not producing negative babies.

Because we feel this is established, we are not testing for pos/neg - but to determine the amount/frequency of shedding and if it can be effected through husbandry. Stress + poor husbandry + re-infection = disease.

We believe that adenovirus are associated with disease, but not the direct cause of disease.

A few people seem to think we are ignorant to or ignoring the ‘old’ information concerning adenovirus. I can say the same of you - meaning breeders that are accusing. You were all just as privy to the information that Cheri has posted over the years - Yet not one of you has bothered to test animals until Wendy spoke up.

Here is a little fact - EM Adenovirus testing through Lou Ann started in July 06, there was little, if any testing in 05, and “some testing several years before that for Dr. Wentz when he wrote the paper with a few samples, that's public knowledge.”

Wes - We have updated our web site.
 
mikey said:
Breeding season is in full force, lets get the word out on as many caresheets, websites, and forums. Dachiu has updated their website. Big or small--- ALL breeders need to follow suit. Then maybe we can ask them to start testing their breeders. We all have different opinions, but the end goal is the same.

http://www.dachiu.com/adults.html?
Click to expand...
I want to be fair, as I did come down pretty hard on Vickie in my post this morning about all of the things I felt she has not done regarding this virus. The adenovirus information posted on their site is a positive thing and a step in the right direction. I know she does not care what I think one way or the other, but because I was so critical, I also wanted to acknowledge that she is making an effort to try and educate potential buyers of adenovirus issues.
 
Thank you Vicki for adding that to your site.

I do have another question for you. Do you plan to continue testing in the future of random dragons (even if it is only a handful a year) in your collection to help get more info into the hands of Dr. Jacobson and his colleagues so we can learn more about this virus?
 
jsrocket.
Are you stalking me? Everytime I say something, you're there? Everything you have said is negative. What have you put forth towards any of this?
Jim.
 
Dachiu said:
A few people seem to think we are ignorant to or ignoring the ‘old’ information concerning adenovirus. I can say the same of you - meaning breeders that are accusing. You were all just as privy to the information that Cheri has posted over the years - Yet not one of you has bothered to test animals until Wendy spoke up.
Click to expand...

Speaking for myself, had it not been swept under the rug and passed off as not serious...and definitely not widespread, I would have tested much earlier than what I did.

I was always under the impression that Adenovirus was some small isolated event. Evidently, it is not...and it has been VERY well hidden until quite recently.
 
Denise,

I and others have been asking 1 direct question the whole time this has been going on and getting a run around. What lab produced your blood PCR results?

FYI - The lab the California Avian out-sources to does not and will not utilize blood as a sample for PCR to look for Agamid Atadenovirus 1. When I asked, she said "No, no... we wont find that there." They do however know exactly what I was referring to as they are the lab that Dr. Wagner used for his research for his upcoming presentation.
 
you know vicki i was gonna say"great job,im so happy you updated your site"but i decided to look at it first.its really a joke how you add the paper from florida but you did not take out your statement"our dragons are not tested for adenovirus".that is a lie,you HAVE tested and have found positives.the paper from florida says something about being honest with your buyers and you are still not being honest vicki.a more honest statement would be"from here on out we will not be testing our dragons".it is great that you provided the testing info for EM and PCR
 
Hahaha what a set of throughbreds we have running this race from the states... keep the blinders on fellas makes y'all look educated.

Considering I do all my reptile based business with JimD, I am rather happy but very surprized he tolerates let alone responds to some of the empty minded garbage that has been posted here. It is good to know he is checking into stuff that I know will be passed on to his customers, I know this because I listen to him talk to people and see how much he is willing to work with people up here.

Back to other stuff it is good to see more disclaimers coming up on sites true but how about some of the big breeders taking the first steps and working to form a coalition between all the major breeders for the sake of the entire community and not just the pride of a few who have been made to look bad in stupid he said she said flame threads.

Take the emotion factor out and get to the facts and proper ways to use them.
The finger pointing has gone on long enough and nobody has won sh*t other than headaches and heartache.
 
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